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Sep 7th 2016 at 10:49:00 AM •••

I don't think the Buffy example belongs here...and even if it did, the wording is in dire need of repair, because every word of the current example that refers to Kendra only refers to a trio of traits that anybody up to and including the girliest of Girly Girls, could have. It doesn't establish her as a "Tomboy to Buffy's Girly Girl", but it does imply that Masculinity = "solemn, respectful and efficient"...in contrast to Femininity, which doesn't even make sense to imply in the first place.

This is a pretty big problem for an example to have, especially considering even the original work doesn't carry those Unfortunate Implications. If it did, we could at least say "which is supposed to be taken as a sign she's more masculine". But it doesn't, so we can't.

I have been discussing this with another troper in PM and to address something they brought up: no, I do not think, especially in the context of Buffy The Vampire Slayer and with both Buffy and Kendra being Slayers, that just the fact she has combat skills or is dedicated to her Calling as The Chosen One makes her "masculine". "Dedication to your duties", even combat duties, is not an explicitly "masculine" or anti-feminine trait, as we can see from tropes like the Yamato Nadeshiko - which, if you read the description can include an Action Girl character. Even the YN's Western counterpart can be a Lady of War.

And to address one last "yes, but" that I got: though it's easy to try and say "but Buffy's still girlier!", read the trope description again - one character has to be more outright masculine than the other, an actual Tomboy of some sort, to fit. Not just lacking in feminine traits, but displaying the diametric opposite.

Which leaves us with nothing to actually explain how Kendra is a Tomboy to Buffy's Girly Girl. But we are left, currently, with some pretty strange, unintentionally sexist wording. The current description of Kendra works if you're interpreting them as a Red Oni, Blue Oni pair, but it doesn't for the purpose of this trope.

Edited by vorpalgirl Hide/Show Replies
Sep 7th 2016 at 3:06:04 PM •••

Motion to pull. Unlike Faith Kendra does not come across as being tomboyish or girly, at least as a contrast to Buffy. If anything Kendra is more Blue and Orange Morality: she is a Slayer, and has less humanity than the bot, hunting and killing vampires is all that matters. That's the point of the character, not how much of a boy she is or how girly she makes Buffy.

Sep 7th 2016 at 3:29:34 PM •••

I say taking slaying ie fighting very seriously is a masculine trait and she's not interested in anything feminine but I will accept if I'm in the minority. Anyone else want to chime in?

Sep 7th 2016 at 4:46:15 PM •••

Rei Ayanami of Neon Genesis Evangelion takes fighting with the utmost seriousness as well. Would it be fair to say she is masculine and boyish? It would, but if anything she's portrayed as being feminine, not girly as such, feminine, motherly, well she would be if she could use a kitchen knife on something other than herself.

Another example? Okay, boot up Dragon Age: Inquisition. See that ruthless spymaster? She takes killing very seriously. A tomboy? Sure. But if you play around you can see that she is very girly as well. Compared to her bestest friend she would be the tomboy, but again it's not something that is touched upon.

Sep 7th 2016 at 7:28:51 PM •••

I don't know these examples. If they are interested in feminine things then they sound different from Kendra.

Sep 7th 2016 at 8:44:24 PM •••

Point I'm trying to make is we could attribute a trope, in this case Tomboy and Girly Girl, but is the work actually using that trope? Take Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, you don't need to be familiar with it but John is more girly than Cameron which makes sense since she is a Robot Girl. You could say that Pink Boy, Blue Girl applies but is the show saying that? Or is it saying Cameron is a Terminator and acts like one to protect John?

Oct 14th 2015 at 2:11:24 PM •••

Funny someone mentioned Maetel Legend, Emeraldas sometimes hangs out with Captain Harlock

Sep 17th 2015 at 8:42:18 PM •••

Is it just me, or is the main page expanding too fast?

Also, having issues deciding whether to apply the dynamic between huntsman and carnivore Miranda Lambert and activist and vegetarian Carrie Underwood to Real Life or Music, or even at all.

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Oct 14th 2015 at 3:29:10 PM •••

What is the main page expanding too fast for? Maybe it should be taken to the trope description improvement drive.

I don't think being a vegetarian is a traditionally feminine thing.

Jun 18th 2015 at 2:38:14 PM •••

The Narnia example has a paragraph of Complaining about Complaining that's longer than the actual example. Should it be cleared up a bit?

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Jun 11th 2015 at 8:56:44 PM •••

Buffy The Vampire Slayer was added too with:

  • The same dynamic occurs with the second Slayer, Faith Lehane , who contrasts Buffy in a different way, through her more tomboyish clothes, wilder attitude towards slaying, and her masculine attitude towards sex.

Faith is also listed with basically the same description on Light Feminine and Dark Feminine so are her clothes tomboyish and her attitudes toward sex masculine or dark feminine?

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Jul 26th 2015 at 6:55:24 PM •••

The amount of cleavage Faith shows and how tight they are and how much they show off her clothes are amazingly feminine. She also generally wore far more make-up than Buffy and wore her hair in more feminine styles as opposed to Buffy's penchant for practical. That said, neither of them is a tom boy.

Edited by shimaspawn
Jul 27th 2015 at 9:39:34 AM •••

Anyone else? or should I remove it now?

Jul 27th 2015 at 6:34:13 PM •••

Go ahead and remove it. It's a bad example and shoehorning.

Jul 28th 2015 at 1:12:26 AM •••

From the first episode we see when Buffy is trying to pick out clothes that she isn't the girly, conservative type. In her romance with Angel she is clearly the aggressor, not the girly type as such. As bad as Faith gets Buffy is Not So Different, and it would be touched on that she can be just as dark. In fact it seems that Faith's attitude towards sex and the like is a Slayer trait if we look at several examples, Buffy just goes about it a more mature way, as opposed to girly. In short I get where the author was going but this is a Square Peg, Round Trope.

Feb 8th 2015 at 8:11:19 AM •••

How is So Beautiful, It's a Curse suppose to make one feminine? I mean it would make the supposed rival character appear ugly on the outside.

Jul 7th 2014 at 1:58:37 PM •••

Regarding an Avatar: The Last Airbender example:

Could someone kindly explain the logic behind listing Mai as a tomboy and Azula as an "in-betweener" when Azula is more traditionally masculine than Mai in virtually every way (behavior, interests/hobbies, manner of dress)? As a young girl, Azula studied military history, took an instant shine to physical aggression, and burnt dolls. Pretty much a quintessential tomboy by that description, and she really doesn't deviate from that as a teenager, just more mature in expression as to be expected. Mai, on the other hand, ewwws over animal waste and getting dirty; she's a bit of a priss. Cracking a crude joke every now and again doesn't make her more of a tomboy than Azula, if that's what the original troper was going for.

Jun 25th 2013 at 11:57:16 AM •••

Not sure about Gwen and MJ - it just strikes me there's something weird about saying a professional fashion model is the tomboy.

When Gwen and MJ were being played as opposites, neither seemed less "girly"; Gwen was the girl-next-door and MJ was a party girl, but neither of those are tomboyish traits. Betty and Veronica, but not Tomboy and Girly Girl.

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Aug 27th 2013 at 8:47:06 AM •••

We're talking about the two of them when Gwen was alive. MJ wasn't a professional fashion model back then.

Jan 15th 2013 at 7:17:28 AM •••

Simoun examples, re:Rodore and Mamiina. Could you explain who is the Tomboy and who is the Girly Girl? They seem equally girly to me.

Sep 2nd 2012 at 6:30:21 AM •••

Although I prefer the classic galactica over the new, I will vouch for Kara as the tomboy. I for one can't see the classic's Athena as a tomboy anymore than I see her as some Spoiled Brat. A small point, but sometimes, a Military Brat is STILL a Brat.

Jul 20th 2012 at 1:22:41 PM •••

I don't see how Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn fit this trope. While Poison Ivy is obviously the girly girl I don't see how Harley Quinn is the tomboy-she's too girly. *

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Aug 27th 2013 at 8:46:34 AM •••

I would have to agree, there is insufficient explanation behind it.

Jul 15th 2012 at 9:19:27 PM •••

I wouldn't say the page picture is a good one. As someone who has never seen that particular anime, I must say it took me longer than it should have to determine which girl is which. I mean, all I see at first glance is a girl in a school uniform and another girl pointing at the camera. The only way to tell them apart without watching the show is their respective postures, with the girl on our left being a straight-shouldered Yamato Nadeshiko and the girl on our right wearing a shirt that might be an athletic jersey.

In fact, there are multiple ways the girls could be crossed. 1) Yamato Nadeshiko is a Japanese standard for femininity, but by no means a universal one. She might be seen as stoic, a more masculine trait. 2) The girl on the right's small smile might be seen as flirtatious, a more feminine trait. 3) By pointing at the camera, the girl on the right might just be an extrovert, which is, again, feminine in some cultures. 3) The "tomboy" has Girlish Pigtails.

Yeah, this only comes down to each culture's opinions of femininity and masculinity, but I think we should go for a more obvious trope pic. I mean, page pics are supposed to be immediately to the point, right?

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Telcontar MOD
Jul 16th 2012 at 12:03:25 AM •••

Image changes go through the Image Pickin' forum. As it is, there isn't as much contrast as there could be but I think it does illustrate — I've never seen that work, and I can tell them apart by one being dressed in a loose shirt (presumably a sports uniform), having her hair tied up (coupled with the uniform, I associate that with keeping it out of the way when being active), and the other wearing an immaculate school uniform and standing in a reserved/quiet/careful/Ican'tthinkoftheword way. A suggestion with more contrast would be welcome, though.

Dec 2nd 2011 at 7:30:13 PM •••

Is it just me, or is the greater part of this article seeming to imply that Tomboy and Girly Girl automatically equals "centered around romance in some way". "Miss Romantic" and "Miss Independent" aren't always interchangeable with this duo. In fact, the girly girl could possibly be a Light Feminine, and not have any romantic bearings per se, but still be considered "girly".

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Mar 4th 2012 at 12:36:00 PM •••

EDIT: Alternatively, you can have the tomboy be the romantic one, but as Tropes Are Flexible, this can be made in a way that coincides with boyishness (for instance, a Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy dynamic, or perhaps a Butch Lesbian for a Girls' Love genre). Since what counts as "girly" and "not-girly" is sometimes based on cultural aspects, it's quite possible for Miss Romance to be the Tomboy and Miss Independent the Lipstick Feminist Girly Girl.

Oct 12th 2011 at 11:52:36 AM •••

The only film in the Star Wars saga that featured both Leia and Padme was episode III: Revenge of the Sith, and in that movie, Leia was hardly old enough to handle a gun (She was portrayed as a newborn then). Maybe in the he saga trope itself, the thing will work.

Sep 27th 2011 at 1:08:35 PM •••

In image picking a large number of people said they were willing to change the image if there was an AMAZING one to use. I want to know what would make an image amazing. I thought the image links Nana one was great.

Sep 6th 2011 at 1:53:52 PM •••

Is sort of lost on how Velma (from Scooby Doo) is a tomboy. There's nothing about her that screams tomboy to me. Then again, I do feel that if there two girls in the cast, people will try to make one the tomboy and the other a girly girl though both (or even one of them) just may be mixture of tomboy and girly girl.

Jun 19th 2011 at 3:01:29 AM •••

Uh. I got a PM about this, so I'll just explain one of my edits here:

  • Why I removed Kimiko and Katnappe:
    • Both girls have shown a deep interest in shopping and clothing, they're both smug and snarky, and they're both martial artists. They've never been portrayed as polar opposites, just enemies.

May 21st 2011 at 11:32:26 AM •••

I really don't think Clare and Emma are tomboys, Emma herself started out as a Distressed Damsel (I saw the two-part pilot).

Oct 12th 2010 at 4:13:41 AM •••

I don't see Lily very much a tomboy, heck, she acts like a GIRLY-GIRL as Lola.

Edited by TheNotDoorman Hide/Show Replies
Nov 10th 2010 at 3:45:00 AM •••

I agree. In fact, there are plenty of girly traits for Lily that Miley doesn't have: Lily = Cheerleader, Miley = Mascot. Lily = Dumb Blonde, Miley = Brainy Brunette. Matter of Fact, Miley was seen putting on some horrifyingly unfeminine accessories (beards, goatees, heavy armpit hair) while Lily dressed up as a man only once (Guess which of the two was wearing perfume at the time).

Edited by 98.92.1.146
Feb 12th 2011 at 1:02:27 PM •••

It's the same problem as Alex and Harper. They're both pretty tomboyish. They both occasionally take the girly-girl role. but not too much.

Now, Hannah and Lola might work, since Lola is so girly. Heck, Lola and Lily would work, as it seems Lily is deliberately acting ultra girly as Lola.

Mar 3rd 2011 at 1:43:46 AM •••

The entire Hannah Montana episode "You Are So Sue-able To Me" is built around this trope. It's very clear that Lilly was originally envisioned as the sporty, tomboy type compared to Miley. Miley literally tells Lilly to "act like a girl" in the episode twice. You can't get much more obvious than that.

Apr 13th 2011 at 10:51:42 AM •••

I agree with most of 98.92.1.146's points, but I'm just wondering why you mentioned the fact that Lily's a Dumb Blonde and Miley's a Brainy Brunette. Before I sound like I want to chew you out for insinuating that to be dumb is to be girly, I just want to say that it doesn't seem like that has much anything to do with girliness. Then again, the way it's executed on the show might justify that.

For another thing, am I the only one who seems to think that 'Lily' sounds like more of a girly name than 'Miley'? I think it may count as a Subversion, where it starts out looking like Lily is the Tomboy, but it turns out she's really the Girly Girl.

Edited by GirlwithAPlot
Oct 6th 2012 at 1:23:10 AM •••

The thing is, Lily and Miley tend to 'zigzag' between being girly girl and tomboy.

When the series first started, Lily was notably a tomboy and practically one of the guys. She was a skater and acted pretty tomboyish. However, as the series went on you could say Lily became a bit more feminine however.

The names shouldn't matter as both names are pretty feminine considering they are girls.

Sep 20th 2010 at 3:13:08 AM •••

Alex and Harper? Really? I can't even figure out who's supposed to be the tomboy. I'm very tempted to remove it. can anyone give me a reason not to remove it?

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Sep 20th 2010 at 3:17:07 AM •••

Also Tori and Trina Vega? I suppose Tori is less of a girly girl, but she's hardly a tomboy.

Feb 11th 2011 at 1:21:06 PM •••

Maybe Alex's mischief can make her considered a tomboy but Tori is a performer. Acting, singing and dancing are far from boyish. Any starlet should be removed from the list as a girly girl, as well as any Girl Next Door who has no masculine qualities.

Edited by atheywa
Feb 12th 2011 at 12:59:32 PM •••

The problem is that both Alex and Harper are pretty much tomboys, but in different ways.

Feb 14th 2011 at 9:38:48 AM •••

@Big T You might be right about that, it which case it will have to be edited. Can you give me at least one example of how Harper is a tomboy?

Edited by atheywa
Oct 6th 2012 at 1:20:29 AM •••

Alex and Harper are zig-zagged and downplayed examples.

While they both have the same interests in some things, Alex is noticeably more 'reckless' (as masculine trait) than Harper. So the two zigzag between who is the girly girl and who is the tomboy.

Jun 28th 2010 at 9:12:26 AM •••

I'm not sure about Peppermint Patty and Marcie as the Trope Codifier; neither of them are especially "girly". Marcie doesn't like sports, but her contrast with Patty is more to do with being the Smart Girl than the Girly Girl.

Edited by DaibhidC
Jun 26th 2010 at 12:32:05 PM •••

What does being a Virgo have to do with anything?

Apr 8th 2010 at 4:44:41 PM •••

What about those Sketchers girls, huh?

Apr 2nd 2010 at 7:09:26 AM •••

Has Combattler V, and Volts V, ever starred in the same Super Robot Wars game? Apperantly, the former's chick was a girly girl, while the latter's chick was a tomboy.

Edited by Simpsonite
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