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Alright, in the 2011-11-03 episode, "Blinking Red Light", we finally have a new Red John murder solidifying the Doombot entry. Any one taking bets that Red John isn't a serial killer but a guild/cult? You cut off one knife-wielding hand and two more grow back in its place? HAIL HYDR... nevermind.
Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas: Rigsby puts up with a lot of insults from his father, Steven, in "Like a Redheaded Stepchild." Steven tricks him and Van Pelt into arresting a "business rival" in the untaxed cigarette business (they thought they were arresting a murder suspect). Rigsby confronts him on this, and Steven comments that Rigsby's mother (and her family) is probably why Rigsby became a cop. It *seems* insulting Rigsby's mother is why Rigsby burns all of Steve's untaxed cigarettes.
It is a little complicated. "Like a Redheaded Stepchild." comes close to an episode-long "Calling the Old Man Out," but Rigsby is more angry over Steve insulting his mother than anything else. Also, is Rigsby really "bad" enough for "Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas?"
Ship Tease: would it be possible to keep this section simplified and less redundant? Opinions on what the fans hate can vary widely depending on what forums one visits (re: Lisbon and Bosco being "almost universally" hated). This troper has seen a number of fans who liked the Lisbon/Bosco pairing. Notably among the roleplaying community on Live Journal. The Rigsby/Van Pelt thing is handled rather well under Will They or Won't They?. And the example of Jane and Lisbon dancing or going Undercover as Lovers is handled in two other trope examples.
tl;dr perhaps the page should be more neutral in tone under certain headings, instead of using certain trope examples as shipper manifestos. Regular viewers will get the YMMV elements of Jane's antics.
Why are episode titles and/or Jane inside spoiler text for Xanatos Gambit and Xanatos Sucker? It wouldn't be spoilery to note the main character's flaw, just perhaps particular instances WITHIN an episode (not the episode itself). Thoughts?
The spoiler text is a tad too plentiful on this page. Jane acting up in court and consequently getting fined isn't a spoiler, it's exactly what a viewer acquainted with Jane's personality might expect.
However, those episodes were major plotfests and the use of those tropes had an effect on the plot for the whole series thereafter. Whenever anything that's supposed to be a twist has an effect like that, it goes into spoiler text.
How do we fix the entry for UST? It's been updated so much it seems like storytelling. And I still don't think it's quite current enough.
Again, what should we do about Five-Man Band? My vote is that we cut the entry altogether, I think it's a Square Peg, Round Trope.
Anyway, there are a few miscellaneous additions that I haven't quite found places for. I think the addition to the To the Pain entry is valid and should be included on the page, but somewhere else. And there's no mention of how after all the revenged but dissatisfied killers Jane's seen, he seems to be rethinking his ideas on his own revenge.
Agree about Five-Man Band. I almost feel like saying that Lisbon and Cho are co-Lancers, which perhaps just goes to show how poorly the trope fits.
All right. I'll cut it and we'll restore it if we ever come to an agreement about what the roles should be.
For UST, how about we do something akin to: "Rigsby and Van Pelt throughout season one and half of season two." Then add a bullet beneath that to address the fact that R/VP were forced to break up.
Also iirc, instances of 'This Troper' are supposed to be cut out, yes? We might need to take a look at that and find a way to plausibly integrate the troper's theory of Relationship Writing Fumble in regards to Jane and Lisbon.
R/VP is a major subplot, so I'd prefer to avoid any time reference outside spoiler text. Mentioning that it stops part-way through season two is a dead giveaway of what happens and when. I'll see what I can do to fix it and we'll go from there.
You are correct. I don't personally think it was a Relationship Writing Fumble, so you could drop it altogether. However, if you think it should be included in the page, 'perhaps' or 'it's possible that' can almost if not always replace 'in This Troper's opinion'. An entry saying 'The relationship between Jane and Lisbon is a possible case of this' would be fine.
Good point. How about just a simple, "Rigsby and Van Pelt, oh god." Everything past that starts getting into storytelling, as you said.
As far as a Relationship Writing Fumble goes, I don't buy it either. I personally think it's a classic case of Ship Tease. I'm cool with your suggestion of 'Jane and Lisbon are a possible case of this' with maybe a YMMV embedded in there next to a Ship Tease. That way (almost?) everyone gets what they want, shippers or gen folk.
In Blood In, Blood Out Cho is lampshaded as The Stoic, but at the same time he has so many Not So Stoic moments in it that it's difficult to be fully accurate in detailing this. Having an entry for Not So Stoic saying 'Blood In, Blood Out was brimming with Not So Stoic moments for Cho' and an entry claiming he's The Stoic (particularly one going so far as to say that he has no expressions) at the same time would seem weird. Suggestions?
This might be covered by the mention of Roaring Rampage of Revenge under It's Personal. Beating up the girlfriend is enough to make a lot of men break character temporarily. Gibbs does this sort of thing in NCIS all the time- mess with his family/team and he stops at nothing.
I don't think it's contradictory or weird. Only characters who are considered stoic in the first place can have a Not So Stoic moment.
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How well does it match the trope?