Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Unlock/add examples back
, started by deadguy on Aug 18th 2011 at 3:30:58 AM
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Put 'em together, started by Kexruct on May 12th 2011 at 11:49:55 PM
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Needs a rename badly, started by nuclearneo577 on Aug 20th 2011 at 11:51:07 AM
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by Larkmarn on Nov 26th 2013 at 7:16:11 PM
I have to say I feel a little insulted by the innacuracy of this article. It makes no sense.
Individuals by nature avoid pain and boredom. Unless mentally warped, no individual will cause himself displeasure on purpose. A person who plays a game competitively will of course like this gameplays style. Some individuals are naturally talented at certain games, or they enjoy it so much that their skill will eventually outmatch their friends and the game will turn out boring because of the weaker matchups. The only real way to find a funchallenge then is to go to tournaments and find people, who like you, are very knowledgeable and involved in this game.
Most hardcore gamers will let the casuals do whatever the heck they want. However, they won't play with them because they don't like that play style. T Hose who now voice their oppinions more strongly now are those who are seeing their favourite games become casual despite these games being originally geared towards them. One can't blame a person for defending his interests.
Finally, the biggest elitists I find are the casual who constantly get on our case because we prefer to, for example, Wavedash and L-Cancel in Smash Bros. By telling us to stop doingthis, they are also telling us to stop having fun. Yes, there is a casual stop having fun movement.
Hide / Show Replies
What part of the article says that?
Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Finally, the biggest elitists I find are the casual who constantly get on our case because we prefer to, for example, Wavedash and L-Cancel in Smash Bros. By telling us to stop doing this, they are also telling us to stop having fun. Yes, there is a casual stop having fun movement.
That would fall under The Scrub. We already have that article.
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Whoever started this particular topic seems like they ARE this trope and are feeling defensive lol
The scrub is a subtrope of the stop having fun guys, the casual variant.
A hardcore stop having fun guy is one that insists everyone play to tournament rules, which doesn't usually happen with actual tournament players. For example, even in the smash community very few players won't enjoy friendlies with 4 player free for all, bombs on high, hyrule temple, everyone captain falcon. Even those who don't would never tell the people who are playing a friendly under that ruleset to stop doing it, which is common before, after, and between matches at actual tournaments.
And yes, significant sections of the discussion here is obviously this.
You are wrong, neither trope is a subtrope of the other because it is not possible to be both at the same time. A "Stop Having Fun" Guy is not simply someone who tells people to stop playing the way they enjoy; you're taking the title too literally. As someone already mentioned elsewhere on this page, a scrub is someone who will insult you for using Garchomp in a Pokémon match. A "Stop Having Fun" Guy is someone who will insult you for using Charizard (before it got Mega Evolutions, anyway). Neither trope is about the way people play, but their attitude toward other players.
And I know you probably won't see this post after four years but I still wanted to leave this post here for future reference so we don't get any more complaints in the future about how TV Tropes is "pro-scrub".
A great Mascot Mook.
No Bluethorn, you're wrong.
This is a collaborative encyclopedia, part of the point is talking about how things should be defines.
The fact that it's definition here is different that the literal definition of the phrase is the problem people are pointing to.
What it says is that people don't realize competitive play is fun for competitive players.
Sure, if you force casual play on people who don't enjoy it you're a killjoy, but the same is true of people who force casual play on people who don't enjoy it.
For example, I'm ND and 4 player FFA with items completely mindfloods me. It's just not fun. I'm not saying that's true of every ND person, but competitive play developed cause people enjoy it, and some people don't enjoy casual play.
The fact that this trope, "stop having fun guys" assumes that only casual play is fun means it actually contributes to that trope.
Edited by Adumbro_Deus
^ That isn't what the trope assumes at all. Competition, by definition, is caring about results more than any other point of satisfaction. Sure, competition is fun to competitors, but all other considerations are secondary to results.
Edited by NubianSatyress
The Tape Fairy
I'm still not sure what the difference between a stop having fun guy and a scrub actually is. They seem like the exact same achetype to me.
It's a good thing our last name isn't Drew, because then you'd be Nancy Drew and I'd be Andrew Drew. -Andy Botwin Hide / Show Replies
A Scrub is someone who likes to play by there rules only. A Stop Having Fun Guy plays by the tournament rules.
A scrub is someone who insists that their own house-rule-style play are the only way to play the game.
A stop having fun guy is someone who insists their tournament-type play is the only way to play the game.
You can kind of say that their difference is that while a scrub scoffs at anything that's "overpowered", a stop having fun guy would embrace them. The similarity is that they both insist that their way of playing the game is the only way of playing the game.
A Scrub is someone who'll quit an online match of Pokémon if you send out Arceus. A "Stop Having Fun!" Guy will quit if you send out Blaziken.
The original comic doesn't have this "hardcore" implicit in it, nor is it implicit in the name. This trope should be applied to everyone who tells others to stop playing in a way they enjoy and a scrub should be a subtrope.
The original comic has nothing to do with this. This trope page only gets its name from the comic, not its definition.
A great Mascot Mook.
Homophobic Homosexual
I have a small, please don't kill me people who have been on this site longer than I and know more about the topic, question. Could this be, in theory be divided into; A: The person, say the Stop Having Fun Guy him/herself, someone who fits this page, since "Stop Having Fun" Guys sounds more like B: The mindset of a group of elite players (who may or may not be based on Gamefaqs) that think that there is one way to play the game, one way to use each character, and will bash anyone who disagrees with them?
I know the second one sounds a bit like the Scrub, but I think it can pertain to a fanbase or at least a significant portion of one. I think "Stop Having Fun" Guys is used a lot where the mindset is more prevalent.
I think the Scrub sounds more like a singularity, where a lot of times Scrubs can share a common way of thinking that almost evolves into Canon.
Hide / Show Replies
What separates a Scrub and a "Stop Having Fun" Person into their respective camps is the style of gameplay they consider to be the way the game was made to be played.
On one hand, we have the Scrub, who devotes his/her entire being to the casual play style, and thinks that if you play as that one powerful character, or use those certain tricks or glitches, then you're just a filthy cheater who can't win on his own. Scrubs tend to force their own house rules down everyone else's throats, bashing those OP'd characters, the use of glitches, and the difficult tricks as Game Breakers.
On the other hand, we have the "Stop Having Fun" Person, who devotes his/her entire being to Tournament play, playing by Tournament rules and utilizing every trick in the book short of cheat codes and, Heaven forbid, characters with special advantages and such. Anyone who doesn't use (a) specific character(s) and/or use tricks and the like are either amateurs or retards with either no skill or not enough experience with the game.
Take Super Smash Bros, for instance. According to "Stop Having Fun" People, you have to (A) know how to Wavedash and L-Cancel, (B) be good with Fox, (C) be able to win without using items, and (D) have memorized what you can and cannot do on Final Destination, if you even want to CONSIDER picking up the game. According to Scrubs, Wavedashing and L-Cancelling is cheating, fighting without items means you're too scared of losing to someone that uses them, and Final Destination is boring and bland. Also, you have to play as a certain character, since everyone else is broken and unfair.
Edited by MugenKagemaru
The difference is that not all casual players are scrubs, but all hardcore players are "Stop Having Fun" guys.
Edited by Kahran042 Oh no! The DREADED AQUAE MORTIS! No, wait, it's just your imagination.
That's silly, you guys are ENTIRELY misapplying the concept in order to bang on hardcore/competitive players. Look at the original comic, it wasn't that they weren't getting perfect runs on through the fire and flames on the hardest difficulty, it was that they were doing it wrong by playing the wrong style (namely not real instruments in that case).
You're literally being stop having fun guys by applying it to these groups of players who play it that way because they enjoy it without regard to whether they try to enforce it on casual players.
As a reply to:
"Known Unknown: Er, yeah. The main page notes how ironically similar Scrubs and SHF Gs are. As for making them a sliding scale... that's a really bad idea, since the things that drive the two viewpoints are very different - it's more just that every viewpoint has assholes as well as more sensible people that follow it."
I didn't make myself clear it seems: Not sliding scale, to separate things. Something like Simhead from Player Archetypes, who is clearly a scrub, but may or may not be 'casual'. Can he fall under 'Stop Having Fun Guys'?
Edited by MOD Hide / Show Replies
Yes, the simhead is definitely a "Stop Having Fun Guy", he's arrogantly forcing you to play by his rules, the belief that his way is the only way to play the game.
Well, unless he's just attempting to play that way, if he doesn't try to force his opponents to play like simheards, he's not this.
Basically, this trope would serve best being the core trope for all people who wanna force people to play ONLY THEIR WAY, scrubs would be the casual version, there needs to be a "Do not play the game" version ala the trope namer, and there needs to be a "everybody must play to win, ALWAYS!" version.
I think half the editors would say: "no, because he's not playing to win."
That's what I tried to suggest on the archived page, to define a clear direction and make it either
- Supertrope of The Scrub: "It's not 'fun' if you're not playing my way." whether it is coming from Simhead (Scrub) or Cheeser (tournament player/"playing to win"-guy as long as you ignore the ragequitting-part. Simheads make just as good ragequitters - i added that to Player Archetypes now - and people using everything available can have a lot of respect for the game. Just ask people that know everything about Mv C 2 after playing it for 10 years)
or
- "Competitive is the only way"-guy doesn't accept that some people just don't want to use everything the game has to offer. Definitely not a Simhead.
now it seems to me that one part of the editors here edit it to be the first and other editors turn it into the second and another group tries to turn it into The Scrub.
Edited by MOD
This is a scrub:
Dammit! Don't you already know my way is the only valid way of having balance?
This is a Stop Having Fun Guy:
Dammit! Don't you already know my way is the only valid way of gaming?
it's not a sliding scale, the scrub is by definition a stop having fun guy and the only reason why the scrub isn't a subtrope of this is because this page was established as a dig on competitive players who for the most part, just want to have fun playing it their way.
That is entirely false, this page was always about people who try to enforce the "play to win" mentality and never about disparaging competitive players in general. (Old discussion but I couldn't resist.)
A great Mascot Mook.
I think the xkcd comic that names this trope (#359) can be used as the page image.
Twitter/Instagram: anzasquiddles. Deviantart: anzahanifathallah. Hide / Show Replies
You might want to bring it up in the Image Pickin' forum
Really shouldn't, considering it's not this trope.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I wonder what place SHFG's having in this movement (though it only seems to be in certain game community's, mostly those with a high population of SHFG's) of wanting to outright segregate the gaming body of the game in question.
Awhile back, i recall such a movement in the Modern Warfare 2 playerbase that called for (really, more like demanded as if they represent the majority of the players) the developer to impose a "All-Pro" system over the online multiplayer mode's. It pretty much would have entailed stopping anyone who's kill to death ratio was below a certain number (and it really varyed from player to player what that should be, from 0.7 all the way to 3.0) from playing online at all, totally locking them out.
One quote i recalled from someone supporting this was: "We only demand that we should only be able to play against those who have shown themselves to be of superior skill and mind such as ourselves. Beasting against the scrub's in random games get's boring since they really don't know their place and they really don't do anything correctly other than feed us effortless kill's over and over again. This new system would see them staying where they belong, circle-jerking with heir scrub friends offline over what's cheap while we, the true and rightful owners of (MW 2) compete amongst the best of the best in true, glorious combat with pride and honor on the line."
Now that struck me as someone who doesn't play well with others (since you can play against nothing but "the best" if you stick to clan-matches, but they seemed to prefer playing against random's and just ignoring any kind of teamwork), as well as someone who likely played Objective mode's and just camped them for easy kill's rather than try to win the match for the team by capturing/destroying/protecting it and scoring a ton of non-kill points (that would help their overall leader-board position).
But that might have just come down to that individual user, as i've seen a wide array of opinions, even with those who support it. From people who just want their own playlist with a lower K/D cap on how can access it to people like the above that want to lock any non-"Pro's" out of the game and require a "Skill test" to gain access to the online modes.
When does someone cross the line from being Elitist, but still senseable to full on raving SHFG?
Edited by PowerRager Hide / Show Replies
That has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life. Just because most players aren't as good as you, they should be locked out of online play completely? Whoever said that quote is a douche. That would be like if I were to lead a campaign to lock out players of Guitar Hero Warriors of Rock who don't play on Expert with an average multiplier of at least 4.0. It's just stupid.
I have a better solution for the Call of Duty issue anyway. Why not add Pro playlists that require a certain minimum K/D ratio of your own (i.e. Pro Team Deathmatch, Pro Free-For-All, Pro Search And Destroy, etc.) in addition to the regular ones and add in a search parameter to indicate the desired minimum K/D ratio of your opponents (from 1.0 to 5.0), and it will only find players with at least that minimum K/D? That way, everybody gets what they want. Scrubs can still play online and have fun with their game, and SHFG's can limit themselves to the Pro modes.
Edited by 98.255.84.8
That would work, if only they would use that kind of setting. No, they would use it once or twice, realize that there are actual pro-level people out there and they're not quite at that point, and they'd be right back in vanilla, nursing their injured pride with even more nastiness than before.
With this sort of thing, the best way to go about it is like what Starcraft does. Give players a skill rating, and match them up with people as close as possible to that rating. The less control the individual has over the matchups, the less problems there will be.
As an example, take a look at League mode in Black Ops 2. It's there for those players who think they're pro to go with their 6-player hyper organized teams and it will put them up against others in the same boat. If they wanted a challenge, that's where they would be. But they go into vanilla matchups with a full team, all completely organized.
Why? Because it's fun to stomp people. You can talk smack, act like an ass when you win. Can't do that in League, where you end up losing to the guy who's just like you but bigger.
Personally, I love Mercenary mode. No teams whatsoever. Makes absolutely sure that there won't be a six player team of douchebags who know every possible spawn point and will kill you before you even move.
Here's another elitist quote from a Super Smash Bros. SHFG a few months before the launch of Brawl:
"Alright, listen up you fucking scrubs. Little shitstains like you are the reason Sakurai is dumbing down the Smash Brothers series from a competitive fighter to fucking child's play. This dumbing down (or as i like to call it, "scrubing" down) of a once beautiful franchise is making me pissed beyond belief. You can see evidence of this bullshit from the 15 second video, where we see a massive nurfing of the OU character Fox McCloud by his decrease in falling speed. Not only that, but the promising new character Zamus (referring to Zero Suit Samus) is now only obtainable by using items. (Fat chance, Sakurai) I swear if they remove wavedashing just so you scrubs don't have to deal with superior skill, me and hundreds of others will fucking boycott this game. You fucking scrubs have successfully destroyed my favorite hobby. Thanks for ruining my fucking week, assholes."
If I recall, Smash Bros. was never intended as a competitive fighter in the first place. This is just another hotshot shoving his elitist playstyle down our throats. If there's any group of people who ruin video games for me, it's SHFGs like this guy.
Edited by 98.255.84.8
actually it was intended to be both in melee, in brawl it was intended to be just a party game, and 4 is intended to again be both.
What kind of "skill test" for unlocking online play did that guy have in mind anyway? Like beating the single-player campaign on Veteran mode without dying, or winning 10 Free-For-Alls with 11 Veteran bots in Combat Training in a row, all while maintaining a minimum K/D of 3.0?
This also makes me think about what "skill tests" for other games would look like. Maybe for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, beating Classic Mode at intensity 9.0, beating the true All-Star Mode on Hard, clearing 10 Intense-level Master Orders, and killing 10 enemies in Cruel Smash all with one character will unlock online For Glory mode for that character?
The whole thing sounds like Social Darwinism at its worst, and it really ruins gaming for people who just don't care about being hardcore.
I kind of wonder just which Smash Bros. "tourneyfags" (for lack of a better term) fall into, this or Scrub.
SHF Gs accept everything of the game: it's rules, it's (im)balance, it's glitches; and work within those confines to develop high level strategies centred on winning. They claim their way is the only proper way.
Scrubs impose their own rules that deny things that are imbalanced and shun exploitation of glitches, in order to make the game more enjoyable to play in general. They claim their way is the only proper way.
Those Smash Bros. guys though, seem like a hatechild between the two, they impose their own rules that remove parts of the game and work within their confines to develop strategies in the name of winning. And they too claim their way is the only proper way.
As a casual guy watching on the sidelines, it makes me wonder what's up.
Edited by homogenized Hide / Show Replies
The way things work in tournaments isn't a scrub mentality as much as a way of imposing Competitive Balance. Some tournaments put money or other large prizes on the line, and if, for example, items were turned on high, there is a chance that a weaker player could beat a greater player if a Heart Container spawned next to him and he suddenly regained all his health. This goes beyond being "cheap"–tournaments turn off items because it can turn the outcome of matches into a Luck-Based Mission. Note that this isn't a criticism of items as a whole–I play with items on Medium because I have fun with some element of luck in the game. But it doesn't fit for tournaments and can bring a heated match to an anticlimactic finish.
Some stages are turned off because some characters have a massive advantage on them, such as Shiek being able to infinite anyone to death on Mushroomy Kingdom. Note that this isn't Scrub behavior because even the Shiek player will accept that he won't play with this disadvantage because it is unfair to the other player.
The difference I can make is that a "Stop Having Fun" Guy will want something turned off because it's unfair at the highest competitive level, while a Scrub will want something turned off because it's unfair to him specifically. There are holes in both of these arguments, of course, but the people you're thinking of fall directly into the former.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. SHFG has little to do with the rulesetting. It's the attitude. That condescending attitude you get with some Smash players where they say people you use items or play non-tourney stages are playing the game incorrectly or they assume they don't know how to play the game as well as they do, scoff at people who play differently than them, just because they happen to use a playstyle that's used in tournaments? That's a SHFG. The kind of guy who treats you like you have no business considering yourself a gamer just because you don't play the way they do.
Someone who just plays the game tourney-style is not a SHFG, and if you go around accusing people of being such just for playing a different style than you then you deserve to be called a Scrub. Incidentally, that's the reason why Scrubs and SHF Gs are, at their core, so very similar.
PS: Technically speaking, nearly all the stages in Smash are fair and impartial. They're just random, which is not the same as unfair. And, actually, most of them aren't even random, since events happen on a set timer in many of them. But that's just me being pedantic.
Edited by KnownUnknown "The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. SHFG has little to do with the rulesetting. It's the attitude. That condescending attitude you get with some Smash players where they say people you use items or play non-tourney stages are playing the game incorrectly or they assume they don't know how to play the game as well as they do, scoff at people who play differently than them, just because they happen to use a playstyle that's used in tournaments? That's a SHFG. The kind of guy who treats you like you have no business considering yourself a gamer just because you don't play the way they do.
Someone who just plays the game tourney-style is not a SHFG, and if you go around accusing people of being such just for playing a different style than you then you deserve to be called a Scrub. Incidentally, that's the reason why Scrubs and SHF Gs are, at their core, so very similar.
PS: Technically speaking, nearly all the stages in Smash are fair and impartial. They're just random, which is not the same as unfair. And, actually, most of them aren't even random, since events happen on a set timer in many of them. But that's just me being pedantic.
Edited by KnownUnknown "The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
PS: Technically speaking, nearly all the stages in Smash are fair and impartial.
Nope. Otherwise, stage counterpicking wouldn't be a valid tactic.
Take Mute City and Final Destination for example. Both are flat stages, but both breed significantly different tactics; FD is extremely projectile friendly due to its larger size, while Mute City is built around being aggressive, due to its smaller size and lack of normal edges.
Most scrolling stages tend to fall under the "douchey to heavy characters" category; Rainbow Cruise is the exception because the stage moves very slowly and predictably.
Edited by Scardoll Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
Another example: Battlefield, the most basic of the fields in Brawl. It's gimmick is that it has multiple layouts, using a different one just about every time you play on it. Practicing to the point of Godhood on one layout could screw you over on another.
Ummmm
A. Stop having fun guy is about imposition, not about playing seriously or competitive. In that sense you tell a tournament player to stop playing in a way he enjoys and you're the stop having fun guy.
B. The smash community DOESN'T view their way as the only way to play, it's viewed as the best way to play for COMPETITION. Competitive players commonly enjoy all sorts of oddball silly ways of playing in friendlies which are commonly played before, during, and after tournaments. Nobody in a tournament setting is going to say otherwise.
C. The game's structure allows stage choices, removal of items, and picking the picking lives, timer, etc. That means they're all equally valid choices and picking which one we prefer is in the core structure of the game which is something that needs to be accepted and we are working within it's confines. This is just picking the format out of those given within the game's structure which is best for competition. If street fighter had a homing meteor that targets a random player, homes on them and deals 50% of their health on hit and can't be blocked or dodged, but could be turned off in the option menu, would you seriously suggest that if you turned it off as the options allowed, you wouldn't be accepting a part of the game? The "off" option is as much a part of the game.
Adam
Why doesn't this page doesn't have an actual trope to list in-universe examples? It seems like it'd be a valid trope in-universe. We'd just have a "No Real Life Examples Please" disclaimer.
Wait, is there an in-universe trope for this?
Catch me where? See my profile! Hide / Show Replies
I think the trope is too rare to have any in universe examples. I can't recall anything that uses this trope besides real life.
Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
In the webcoming "Better Days" there's a character who is so competitive and good at everything that she pisses everyone off... I guess that doesn't quite fit though, where should I put it??
Otto becomes one of these guys in one episode of Rocket Power when he tries to go pro just after his 11th birthday. I put a quote from that episode in the quotes section.
Edited by MetalSmasher86
Is it just my imagination, or does this page seem to attract more lame Justifying Edits than pretty much the rest of the wiki combined? Seems to me like the SHFGs are trying to resolve the cognitive dissonance by trying to rationalize their behavior this way.
I propose we add something to the article text like "Please refrain from Justifying Edits trying to excuse or explain their behavior. We know why they're doing it, because this page probably wouldn't exist in the first place if we didn't."
Edited by Poochy.EXE Extra 1: Poochy Ain't Stupid Hide / Show Replies
Even better: We removed all the examples.
That way, there won't be any whining in the first place.
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
A pity, but slapping this trope with a YMMV tag was probably for the best.
I think the punctuation here has been misapplied. It sounds more logical for it to be "Stop having fun, guys!", seeing as the trope namer was that XKCD strip with the one guy complaining at the 4 guys for enjoying Guitar Hero.
Hide / Show Replies
Agree. Certainly it should either be Stop Having Fun, Guys! OR "Stop Having Fun" Guy (singular), as in "that guy is a "Stop Having Fun" Guy". The latter seems to be how it's been parsed for the punctuation it's got (it's mentioned as such in the text), but in that case there's no reason for it to be plural (we don't have a page called Munchkins, and Scrubs is something else entirely).
Edited by johnnye
Yeah the punctuation is just terrible. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Um, what is the limit on discussion posts length? I'm not able to paste the nuked examples here.
Hide / Show Replies
I'll try to split it...
- This xkcd strip is the Trope Namer.
- Destructoid's Ten Golden Rules of Online Gaming is a satirical how-to guide on becoming the stereotypical online gamer, including many elements of the SHFG and/or Scrub mentality.
- Several years back, a former tournament-level player called David Sirlin, who's now working for Capcom, wrote an article called "Playing To Win," which contrasted scrubs and tournament players with little middle ground. The article made some good points, but the tone made it the poster-child of "Stop Having Fun" Guys for years. More recently, he followed it up with Not Playing To Win, a limited defense of casual play.
- Expect to receive grief for even lagging in online video games. How dare you not pay for the most expensive internet connection, even if it isn't available where you live, and how dare you be using a wireless network that's prone to going on the fritz or randomly burping? There is no excuse for not having the best internet out there!
- Do you play on anything that isn't part of the glorious PC Master Race? Well, you're wrong, and a terrible person for having fun that way.
- If you're a PC gamer, do you dare to play any game with a controller instead of a keyboard and mouse? You may as well have just raped a baby.
- Again, PC users...did you buy a pre-built PC? Do yourself a favour...'DON'T. EVER. SAY. IT. Admitting it is like saying you like to poison babies with LSD.
- The biggest, and perhaps most goofy of all fighting games' SHFG goes to the entire Super Smash Bros series. Despite all the ways that this game can be played on both the goofball mess fests and serious 1 on 1 duels, a lot of the serious players seem to heavily focus on the Tournament Level, which focuses on not using items and playing very static stages. While there is nothing wrong with this style of play, it isn't how everyone likes to play, per se. None the less, a quick stop to any Smash Forum and asking up the idea of "how do you play" is not really a good idea... This is lovingly drawn out in this LegendaryFrog comic. The Tournament scene is arguably more well known for its Hatedom than anything else. Despite this, it's hard to find Brawl games that do allow items and break the Abridged Arena Array.
- In Street Fighter II series, you'll have those who sneer at players who chose Ryu and Ken, because Akuma (who is banned in most tournaments) is "So much better."
- Inverted by players who prefer "old" Sagat (also extremely good) over Akuma, since Akuma is banned in tournaments — and that means that many people don't find it "useful" to practice against a character you aren't going to play against in tournaments anyways.
- Guilty Gear fans will often scoff at you for not knowing basic blockstrings and combos, even though many of what they term "basic" require a fair amount of practice (ideally on a home system) to get down pat.
- You're a scrub if your Ranked Match team in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 consists of anything but Captain Commando, Psylocke, Cyclops, Cable, Magneto, Storm, or Sentinel. Now that the game has been released for Xbox Live, don't you dare complain about seeing the same five or six characters over and over.
- MUGEN has a LOT of these guys running around. Due to just how much ground the MUGEN fanbase covers, you are bound to find every type of this imaginable. For every helpful fellow willing to show you the ropes and help you learn how the engine works, you have a hundred angry vets calling you a noob. For every kind soul that offers to guide you to better versions of the characters you like, there are a ton of snarky folks yelling at you for not knowing better. Then there's the fact that nearly every franchise with characters available in the engine has solid fan base and hate bases, so you can expect a lot of controversy in that regard. Finally and probably most aggravatingly, there is the elitist fighting game fanboy that will laugh at you and despise you if you show so much as a passing interest in Mugen. Because clearly enjoying a fighting game engine means you know nothing about fighting games, right?
- The first requested faq on any Smackdown Vs Raw game? "I want a CAW of last year's John Cena, and 2009's Cena, and 2008's Cena, one with a hat, one without a hat, one with a singlet..." The second requested faq however is "lol what are all the unblockable Gamebreaker moves? I go tke my 98 level CAW to pwn all u noobs cause i'm so l33t lol."
- Mass Effect has a notorious amount of SHFG. Didn't kill the Rachni queen without metagaming? You're retarded. Didn't keep the Collector base? You deserve to die. Saved the Council? Get off the forum!
- Also, if you don't play on the hardest setting "Insanity", then as a rule, you're no better than a scrub, because according to the Bio Ware forums, Insanity is apparently "the difficulty the game was meant to be played on."
- Usually inverted on the popular Mass Effect threads on 4chan's /v/ board., though with similar responses. Kill the Council? What are you doing!? Save the Collector base? You're gonna doom the galaxy! Romance Tali? Bad move! Kill off Wrex and Grunt? Get out right now.
- Penny Arcade has the story of how Gabe took the mickey out of a larval-stage SHFG. Also a follow-up post showing why if you are a parent of a young child, you should never, ever let him or her attend an officially sanctioned tournament.
- It also seems that the kids made him recognise the start of potentially similar traits:
It was actually really cool to see how much these kids love Pokemon. I've been so into it recently that I think I'd forgotten I should be having fun. With my pages of hand written math and charts of carefully plotted out EV training regiments I actually felt sort of dirty. These little kids were showing me teams comprised not of statistically optimal Pokemon but of their favorites. - Go to the general board of any Pokémon game in Game Faqs, and ask for advice on which moves you should teach to your freshly caught favourite. There will always be someone who will (a) tell you that this pokémon is not suited for competitive use, and point towards better pokémon who outdoes yours in every possible aspect, (b) variation of the first, suggesting an ineffective moveset because your pokémon does not deserve the good TMs, or (c) copy-paste a Smogon moveset, even if it involves chainbreeding.
- Smogon movesets in particular are rather useless for normal play - the average Smogon moveset requires not only chainbreeding, but also pulling the Pokemon up to 100, EV and IV training every stat from the bottom, and using one-use, hard-to-find items. Also notably, most tiers in the game are based on the rest of the metagame, and only one Gym Leader in any game (Roark's Geodude and Onix in D/P/P, which he puts aside for the rematch) uses Stealth Rock. At this point, they aren't even for cartridge play. A lot of them involve giving the pokemon in question a specific Hidden power type, which is impossible in the actual games. They're all really only meant for Shoddy Battle, Smogon's Gen IV battle sim. This in turn means that they totally ignore the idea that some players don't do competitive battles or like to keep things simple.
- It isn't just Game Faqs. Pretty much anywhere the Pokemon fandom hangs out you will find REALLY obnoxious "Stop Having Fun" Guys. There may be more than even Smash Bros. Wi-fi and YouTube videos are dominated by them, so much that you can't find a casual battle anywhere unless you play with friends. And the worst of all is Smogon. Whatever you do, don't go to Smogon if you're a casual player.
- In fact, pretty much the entire competitive Pokémon community is the epitome of this trope. If you’re one of the poor fools who dares to raise your Pokémon without
horribly and cruelly abusing/biologically mutatingEV Training them, you are going to be called a Scrub and be publicly humiliated. And if you even think about thinking about mentioning that it’s actually a physical possibility to play the game without regard to the endless amounts of soulless numbers and statistics, prepare to be mercilessly flamed until absolutely nothing is left of you. - Heck, just having the "wrong" moveset can cause the "Stop Having Fun" Guys to look down upon you. And to put it further, having the wrong nature, stats, and whatnot is also frowned upon.
- Speaking of "correct" teams and moves: one war story has the teller losing five widely-used competitive Pokemon before sweeping with one normally ranked in the second-lowest tier, to the complete surprise of both players. The hilarity is best appreciated in the original thread (complete with chat-log).
- Speaking of "correct" teams and moves: one war story has the teller losing five widely-used competitive Pokemon before sweeping with one normally ranked in the second-lowest tier, to the complete surprise of both players. The hilarity is best appreciated in the original thread
- Do not mention you use "Uber" Pokemon. At all. Even if you're just a casual player (IE: Not very competitive) the more hardcore gamers will accuse you of using nothing more than "Game Breakers" or "Relying too much on over-powered Pokemon to win battles". Heck, just having an "Uber" on your team and not even using it counts.
- Two words: Action Replay. Hardcore Pokemon gamers will frown upon those who use "cheat codes" to obtain certain Pokemon (Mainly Event Pokemon), even though it is technically legal to do so.
- Your Mileage May Vary on this - plenty of Serious Business players are well aware Pokemon in-game isn't meant to be taken seriously, and are happy to let people mess around. Scrubs playing with their favourite-but-mostly-useless Pokemon on a competitive simulator, however, tend to draw unwanted attention.
- You're not allowed to run from a battle in a JRPG. Ever. It doesn't matter whether the enemy's kicking your ass hard and it's been hours since you used a save point, you're in a real-life hurry to get to a save point, or the enemy is so weak that there's no point in fighting it for what little spoils you'll gain. If you run from battle, you are a complete RPG Scrub.
- God know how you're supposed to advance in Suikoden 2 then: one of the character recruitments 'requires' a certain amount of battle retreats. SHFG's tend not to be big on logic or exemptions.
- Apparently, you're supposed to enjoy Level Grinding as well. If you don't, then you just don't know how to have fun in an RPG.
- Averted/Inverted somewhat in Final Fantasy VIII- Level grinding makes the game excessively harder, the enemies scale with you.
- And then played straight, as actually playing the game with the Experts of FFVIII will give you a very bizarre Solve the Soup Cans kind of logic in how to "properly" play the game. Said way tends to involve either playing Card Games or trying to Card Them All! Which actually is even LONGER and MORE complicated then normal Level Grinding.
- Averted/Inverted somewhat in Final Fantasy VIII- Level grinding makes the game excessively harder, the enemies scale with you.
- There is only one party setup worth using. Every other combination of characters is absolutely worthless. Unless you specify otherwise, everyone will always assume you're using that party.
- Very true in the Final Fantasy Tactics series. Using a Gadgeteer/Tinker? You're an idiot for using a "garbage" class. No matter how much you try to defend your decisions on what classes you use and how you use them, the "expert" players will just lecture you on how the other classes are so much better than what you use, despite the fact that Advance and A2 are pretty easy to beat with almost any class set up you use.
- At the other extreme there's a set of Scrubs who will sneer at anyone who's crappy enough to "need" all the best stuff to win, in effect declaring Self Imposed Challenges the only valid way to play. Apparently if you're not playing through the game as a level 1 solo Joke Character without equipment you suck and have no business playing it.
- On that note, do not mention Break HP Limit to any Final Fantasy X. Ever. Otherwise, be prepared for a paragraph of text on how stupid you are for even thinking of using it, and another paragraph on how you're SUPPOSED to be fighting "Insert Bonus Boss Here". Like the FFVIII example, it tends to be a Solve the Soup Cans! Logic that probably involves just as much work to find all the parts that you need. Figures.
- A perfect example of what happens when you mix this with Fan Dumb is shown here. Beware the "Tyranny of Fun"!
- Do you want to have fun playing RPGs? James Raggi considers you inferior. "Inferior" is perhaps too nice a word; "the scum of the earth" is a more accurate way of putting it. He even put up an followup to the article insulting anybody who was linked to it from this wiki.
- Try playing Fallout 3 without using VATS much, or by actually playing as a good guy. Prepare to have people yelling your head off.
- Even if it's not a competitive game, don't you dare admit to using certain perks, like the ones that increase your experience gain or reveal all the map locations, because you're a noob who needs to level up faster to play the game to win.
- Actually, don't even bother admitting to playing or liking Fallout 3 even if it's the ever buggy PC version. There are many a SHFG who whines endlessly about their dislike for the game and will not allow you to enjoy it on those merits.
- Even if it's not a competitive game, don't you dare admit to using certain perks, like the ones that increase your experience gain or reveal all the map locations, because you're a noob who needs to level up faster to play the game to win.
- When faced with a party of Munchkins, a game of Dungeons And Dragons can turn into this very quickly. Woe to you if you happen to have a character who is not min-maxed up the arse. Even if you want to make a character who fulfils a role that the party needs, you're still a worthless maggot because you aren't multiclassing/are multiclassing/aren't using a cleric or druid.
- It can be a real problem in some editions if characters are at different levels of min/maxing: the game balance can be shattered. A character min/maxed by a pro and a character made by a person new to the game can have such a gap in power and survivability that anything that would be a challenge for the min/maxed character is likely to destroy the new person's character in one round. A certain amount of balance must be struck in this case where the DM either reigns in the min/maxed character or helps the new player min/max their character somewhat, or a combination thereof. What makes the "Stop Having Fun" Guy is he will be unwilling to either tone down his character or help the other player beef up his, instead deciding to berate and insist that his character is not the problem at all and expect everyone to play his way.
- Exalted has a similar problem. Unless all the PCs put some effort into being combat-capable, anything that can even remotely challenge the combat-monsters will shred the non-combatants before they can blink.
- It can be a real problem in some editions if characters are at different levels of min/maxing: the game balance can be shattered. A character min/maxed by a pro and a character made by a person new to the game can have such a gap in power and survivability that anything that would be a challenge for the min/maxed character is likely to destroy the new person's character in one round. A certain amount of balance must be struck in this case where the DM either reigns in the min/maxed character or helps the new player min/max their character somewhat, or a combination thereof. What makes the "Stop Having Fun" Guy is he will be unwilling to either tone down his character or help the other player beef up his, instead deciding to berate and insist that his character is not the problem at all and expect everyone to play his way.
- There was a time in Adventure Quest's history (before a lot of the new quests were released with scaled level versions) when they were all one difficulty. Then Fire War was released, a low-to-medium level quest against the fire mage Drakkonan. This was immediately followed by a string of level 80+ content. When people complained that they couldn't do any of the new content they were told in no uncertain terms that low-level players had been given one special event and that was enough. Some particularly egregious arguments insinuated that even giving low-level players one event amounted to insufferable persecution of hardcore fans.
- Disgaea2. Do you use monster classes for anything other that Magichange? You are noob, humanoids are way better. The best class is
SamuraiMagic Knight. And God help you if you teach healer any attack magic.
- Honorable Mention goes to the various "real musicians" who tell players of games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band that they should stop playing video games and learn a real instrument, ignoring the fact there are no Modern Warfare fans killing passengers at airports like the infamous No Russian level, or otherwise stop playing video games and join the real CIA. Most of the time, however, these people fail to realize that these games do not just emulate playing an instrument, but the entire rock star lifestyle, which would normally be extremely improbable to obtain in real life regardless of how well one can play a real guitar.
- Harmonix have responded to these complaints by adding the more realistic Pro Mode for Rock Band 3, in which drummers get to use additional cymbals, keyboardists get to use the entire two-octave keyboard at once, and most anticipated of all, guitarrists can use a new guitar controller with six strings and over a hundred buttons on its neck to more accurately simulate guitar playing, with a proper, fully-functional six-string controller on its way. This, in turn, has bred a new kind of Stop Having Fun Guy, who insists that no matter how good a guitarrist this game may make you, you're still a scrub for learning to play through a video game instead of practicing by yourself.
- Some actual musicians in bands have tried rhythm games and failed, simply because the controllers are different than actual guitars or drums, for a variety of reasons * . One such example appears in Gene Simmons Family Jewels, where KISS tries to play Detroit Rock City on Rock Band 2, but fails after only a few seconds. Such encounters often leads the game's fans to accuse the musicians of not being able to play their instruments.
- Actually there are people wondering why anyone can have fun playing FPS and/or fantasy action games if the only proper way to have fun of shooting and fighting is, respectively, training at the shooting range/IPSC course or joining local medieval reenactment group.
- One wonders if, for games like Command And Conquer, Medal Of Honor and the like, Al Qaeda feel the same.
- You're not allowed to play pop'n music with the Beat-Pop modifier. After all, if you want gray and blue notes so badly, why not just play beatmania IIDX?
- Dance Dance Revolution (along with its counterparts Pump It Up and In The Groove) have similar issues throughout:
- When it comes to the safety bar, the players can be easily separated into two types: those who support their weight with it to achieve the highest score, and those who adamantly refuse to do so because they think it's more fun that way. Both groups are equally vocal and equally annoying. Some in the anti-bar camp will heckle or even outright smack the hand of any player whom they see reaching for the bar. Even if the player is trying to beat That One Song or play Oni Mode (where you have to play 5+ songs in a row without breaks, and missing 4 steps out of 300+ on any one song will fail you and end your game on the spot) or Survival Mode (instead of missing 4 notes max, it becomes a Timed Mission with only accurate stepping to keep the timer alive for the most part).
- Similar but lesser hate can be directed as a player who uses speed mods or any built-in noteskins to make reading stepcharts easier, even if some of this noteskins are default options on some of the games. The only possible exception is the Solo modifier on older DDR arcade releases: due to a bug, if one player chose Solo, both players had to have it on.
- For a while, the speed mod debate carried over to Guitar Hero. It certainly didn't help that in all Guitar Hero games so far but GH5 * , speed modifiers were filed under the cheats menu.
- The online game JamLegend's score system awards most experienced players a golden "P" (pro) badge.Pray you don't end up in a multiplayer match made up of pros...
- Besides that, most comments on the songs will simply consist of "FC" (Full Combo), sometimes followed up with "Too easy" or "Can't believe someone failed it".The moderator staff deleted them at first, but eventually resigned and let the SHFGs shout out their pride.
- Homebrew Bemani games falls victim to SHFG traps, most stepcharts wind up in the vein of "It is supposed to be hard, learn to play" songs. Rather evident in Step Mania and Osu!
The above post is hilarious when we consider what happened to troper tales and what happened to this page's examples.
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
I'd just like to point out that "Fan Haters" is a Red Link, but we can't fix it because the page is locked.
I'm alive and less annoying than ever before.
Is it a justified statement to claim that SHF Gs are the reason gamers have such a negative sterotype attached to them?
You know... The one how we all are just some basement dwelling hackers who are so insecure about themselves that they need to be the best at a videogame to validate their existance.
I beleive that SHF Gs are the prime source of this mentality. Am i correct in assuming this? I just want to know who is to blame for me being shot down by every girl I've asked out just because I like to play videogames!
Edited by 71.52.139.180 Hide / Show Replies
It's not that.
It's that gamers are typically less-than-average in athletics and socialization. We often shut ourselves out from the outside world, preferring the visceral thrills. Personal hygiene isn't the only thing we don't use. Gamers also tend to like to use the internet, and when we get on we can be very mean people.
We do not need to shift the blame for our problems to those we dislike. Instead, we can actually face those issues.
Edited by Scardoll Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.
@ the OP.
Most mainstream media just protray gamers as nerd with varying degrees of uncleanliness.
They usually don't even know about compettive play.
Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Even though "Stop Having Fun" Guys is a good trope name, shouldn't the guys that are the opposite of "scrubs" be called "sburcs" (singular: "sburc")?
Hide / Show Replies
No. "Stop Having Fun" Guys has good wicks and it sounds fine. If we were to rename it, it wouldn't because we want to give it a Backwards Name.
Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Reading tropes such as YouKnowWhatYouDid
Alright, why s the TV Tropes example keep being deleted? It's a serious issue, a serious issue that needs to be said and addressed.
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours Hide / Show Replies
First of all, if you believe it is indeed an issue, making snide comments against the wiki isn't the way to address it. Go to the forums, and create a thread stating your concerns.
Second, please read the edit reasons in the example-removing edits. This is a wiki, not a message board or blog. Tvtropes has a definitive mission, and the issues in the example hinder it. Conversation In The Main Page damages readability and clutters up the page. And as for Just A Face And A Caption... Well, just read the page. It's presumptions to assume everyone knows who your favorite character is and how they demonstrate the trope.
Third, if the example was supposed to address people "taking the wiki too seriously," then it shouldn't be phrased like it's complaining about polices you don't like.
Fourth, the staff created places for subjective fun. Everything from reviews to It Just Bugs Me! to Just for Fun pages aren't related to the wiki's mission, but they still exist since people enjoy them.
A while back, subjective tropes were purged from work pages. Instead of just deleting them outright, the admins created the YMMV tab, so all of the YMMV's can be preserved. That way, people who like them can read 'em all in one spot, and people who don't can just avoid them.
Edited by SpellBlade
Fifth: This trope is about Tournament Play, especially towards Videogaming.
Tv Tropes is neither a tournament nor a videogame. Read the definition (I know, reading the page you are editing is so HARD!).
Edited by Ghilz
So I should nuke everything not game related?
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Everything not related to some form of game, yes. As it's technically not what the trope is about. It's about imposing a type of streamlined gameplay especially that prefered in tournament, that tend to denies full access to all that can be done in the game.
Non Videogame examples (like card games, wargames, RPG, sports, etc..) still work, but non game/sport examples don't make sense. All the PC examples in the Meta section, for example are wrong (Most of those are Fandom Heresy)
Edited by Ghilz
Example on Sirlin seems a bit nattery and multi-biased. I'm going to merge the two arguments into one statement mentioning contention. Feel free to re-edit if people dislike th change.
Old version:
- Several years back, a tournament-level player by the name of David Sirlin wrote an article called "Playing To Win," the upshot of which is, if you're not playing a game at a cut-throat competitive level, you're not worthy to talk about it or venture an opinion on it. It has a few thought provoking points, but the arrogance of the piece kind of eats away at that.
- After two and a half years of being horribly mischaracterized for pointing out the same things about scrubs that the TVTropes article does, he proceeded to post up a follow-up labeled Not Playing To Win which called out "Stop Having Fun" Guys for... pretty much exactly the same thing we call them out for. He's still viewed so badly around these parts that the above paragraph remains part of the page.
- After two and a half years of being horribly mischaracterized for pointing out the same things about scrubs that the TVTropes article does, he proceeded to post up a follow-up labeled Not Playing To Win
New Version:
- Several years back, a tournament-level player by the name of David Sirlin wrote an article called "Playing To Win," which contrasted scrubs and tournament players with little middle ground. The article made some good points, but the tone made it the poster-child of "Stop Having Fun" Guys for years. More recently, he followed it up with Not Playing To Win, a limited defense of casual play.
This former example seems to be speculating based off of the games’ structure, and it's chock full of Weasel Words.
- In the case of Metroid Prime, the "Stop Having Fun" Guys are actually the company rather than the players. Retro seem to have a deep, abiding and entirely pointless hatred for sequence breaking, to the point that each successive version has tried progressively harder to ruin the game for speedrunning, apparently simply on the basis that this isn't the correct way to play the game.
Could I have a statement made by Retro on this? "It's harder to speedrun in the newer games" is too vague.
Edited by BattleMage Hide / Show Replies
http://www.metroid2002.com/home.php
Check "Version Differences." Note how many are specifically designed to stop players who are sequence breaking from accessing areas. Retro do hate sequence breaking, and have done their level best to remove or cripple any player ability to do things out of order. This:
http://www.metroid2002.com/version_differences_geothermal_core.php
Is a good example of repeated attempts to stop players skipping the Grapple Beam, ending with sticking a lock on the door that doesn't go away unless you've picked it up. It can't be argued this is for any reason other than the programmers not liking sequence breaking; the sequence breaks require fiddly and obtuse techniques a regular player isn't going to find by accident.
Edited by Evilest_Tim It is shameful for a demon to be working, but one needs gold even in Hell these days.
Looks like most of the changes were removing exploits a player wouldn't find unless he knew about them. Since the Plasma Beam is a Game-Breaker, it makes sense to stop the player from getting it too early. Most of the sequence breaking requires the player to use unintended exploits (compared to the 2-D games, especially Zero Mission where bomb-jumping was deliberately programmed in and you are rewarded for speedruns,) so I don't see how removing them fits the trope since Prime wasn't designed to accommodate speedrunning in the first place.
Compare this example to the Roller Coaster Tycoon example, where the creator removed a widely popular game mode in the sequel because "that's not point of RCT," thus damaging the game's quality. There's a difference between removing minor exploits very few people care about and removing an entire playable game mode.
If you could provide a more blatant example (preferably one where you don't need to use an extremely obscure engine exploit,) that would be great.
Addendum: Someone YKTTW'd this.
Basically, it's because they decided playing in an unintended way was bad and had to be stopped. In other words, stop having fun, you dirty speedrunners, it's not the right fun for you to have. You can only play our game the way you were supposed to play it. People who have fun that way are having the right fun.
Non-examples would be things like the slower loader (yeah, it means PAL can't compete with NTSC speedruns, but it also stops the game crashing) or making Meta Ridley harder to pin with the Wave Beam (so he isn't a total joke of a boss). These affect speedruns, but they're also fair-enough fixes for issues in normal play, and those legitimately trump preserving speedrunning. Doing things purely and entirely to screw over speedrun techniques is just disliking one mode of play (and thus one group of people's fun) so much you want to actively harm their ability to do it; early plasma beam will never come up if someone is just playing the game normally, precisely because the methodology is so obscure. The only difference between that and the other examples is that normally a "Stop Having Fun" Guy doesn't have the means to physically remove modes of play he hates from all future versions of the game.
I don't really see how it matters if you look down on the playstyle of five hundred players or fifty thousand, or whether you regard what they use as "techniques" or "exploits;" even if we go for the loaded word, an exploit only matters if someone actually loses out from it (say, a wallhack in a multiplayer game); here, it's removing the "exploit" that means some people lose out on their fun, while everyone else's game remains the same. Except in the example given; if you weren't aware you could lay the Power Bomb on the rail above (I wasn't, since you never need to lay power bombs on a spider ball track prior to that point), the added pile of Bendezium rubble actually makes it very hard to land on the platform without being thrown right back down to the bottom of the entire room to start over. So in screwing over speedrunners they actually made the room potentially harder for everyone.
Edited by Evilest_Tim It is shameful for a demon to be working, but one needs gold even in Hell these days.
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
I know there's a crowner about this (wtf is a crowner anyway), but really, I think this picture would be better for people to understand the first glance. [1]
◊
I'd bring that up in the thread the Repair Shop notification links to.
Removing some natter...
- There is, though, a common belief among tourney players that if any card that costs four or more mana doesn't win the game for you on the spot, it should never even be put in your deck, which the more experienced tourney jocks know ain't so and casual players find laughable. The specific quote comes from Zvi Mowshowitz, long time professional magic player; but even he finds the idea laughable nowadays as seen in this article.
- In general, Magic averts this trope. If you beat a Spike with unconventional tactics, he'll usually compliment you instead of calling you "lucky" or "cheap." Winning, rather than "proper play," is the metric of player skill.
- There are, however, exceptions; particularly irritating are those who fill their decks with foreign-language cards for "variation" and almost roll their eyes out of their skulls if you have to actually ask what a particular card actually does.
- There is a definite subtype of Spike, though, that loves to fill their deck with only "good" rares, barring basic lands. You're winning? Spike's attitude becomes a bit abusive and Spike acts like your deck is cheap, no matter what it's composed of. Spike is winning? Spike then becomes condescending about how "It's a shame you can't afford all the great cards like Spike can." Seriously, I can't be the only one who's ever run into this type of player who is rather drastically mistaken about what a "great" card actually is.
- There is, though, a common belief among tourney players that if any card that costs four or more mana doesn't win the game for you on the spot, it should never even be put in your deck, which the more experienced tourney jocks know ain't so and casual players find laughable. The specific quote comes from Zvi Mowshowitz, long time professional magic player; but even he finds the idea laughable nowadays as seen in this article
I'm not really into Magic, but what I gather from the above is just that there are exceptions to every blanket statement you can make about the players, which is true of any entry.
- Try playing most card games for fun. Some like Texas Hold 'em and Poker get this treatment moreso than others. People also insult you for not playing the game correctly.
- Which is ironic, considering that the people being insulted are effectively handing out free money to the people who hate them.
- Not necessarily. There is nothing more frustrating than drawing a monster hand pre-flop, getting community cards that don't seem to threaten your hand, then dropping your entire bankroll to some schmuck who decided to stay in with nothing and happened to luck into a winning hand.
- Yes, but you want people to be making plays like that. They'll get lucky once in a while, but usually it'll work out in your favour.
- Except when it doesn't. A single bad beat can be VERY costly to your bankroll, and that's what makes it so frustrating. And cause the guy is just staying in regardless, there are no tells to read, so you have no indication as a player that maybe you should back down.
- It's a game with an element of luck, deal with it or don't play.
- Except when it doesn't. A single bad beat can be VERY costly to your bankroll, and that's what makes it so frustrating. And cause the guy is just staying in regardless, there are no tells to read, so you have no indication as a player that maybe you should back down.
- Yes, but you want people to be making plays like that. They'll get lucky once in a while, but usually it'll work out in your favour.
- Not necessarily. There is nothing more frustrating than drawing a monster hand pre-flop, getting community cards that don't seem to threaten your hand, then dropping your entire bankroll to some schmuck who decided to stay in with nothing and happened to luck into a winning hand.
- Try playing Blackjack at a casino without having memorized a strategy card, but this reaction is somewhat justified since your mistakes can screw things up for the other players.
- But only somewhat because it only "affects" other players in a results-oriented sense; whether the other players play well or poorly has no effect on your chances of winning, but that's a small comfort to blackjack noobs who just saw someone "take the dealer's bust card."
- the effect is real, but not as prevalent as you'd expect. As the game continues, the count tends towards the middle. SO when the player at 3rd base takes a hit when he has no business doing so (when the count is high and a 10 will bust him) he is likely to take the dealer's bust card. Sure, there may be another ten after, but the odds of the dealer getting a ten DID go down.
- Sometimes, you can even get insulted by inexperienced players when you play correctly but counter-intuitively.
- Insulting opposing poker players for perceived mistakes can be a huge part of the Meta Game.
- But only somewhat because it only "affects" other players in a results-oriented sense; whether the other players play well or poorly has no effect on your chances of winning, but that's a small comfort to blackjack noobs who just saw someone "take the dealer's bust card."
- Which is ironic, considering that the people being insulted are effectively handing out free money to the people who hate them.
Wow. O.o I worked in "for the most part" and the last bit of natter to the main point, but the rest of it seems to be the same way as Magic; there are exceptions to every rule and counter exceptions to the exceptions, but that's fine. Nobody's saying every experienced player fits the trope definition.
Edited by 87.254.89.157 "And for the first time in weeks, I felt the boredom go away!"
Neither of these are SHF Gs but the team that requested playing the "proper" way is certainly a scrub.
•How David Beats Goliath is a New Yorker article about this trope. It talks about a girls' basketball team reaching the National Junior Basketball Championships due a new technique that wore down both teams' stamina much faster - and their team had worked almost solely on building stamina. The girls were then castigated by the other teams for playing 'unfairly' and not letting the teams 'develop basketball skills'. The team lost its final game by caving to pressure and playing the 'proper' way after a ref called excessive amounts of fouls. So in short, Stop Having Fun Guys can easily turn into Scrubs when the "wrong" method beats them. ◦It should be noted as well that the national game was played on their opponent's court (presumably with overwhelming home team support), and the referee in question was supplied by the home team.
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Examples or not, this needs a rename
, started by nuclearneo577 on Dec 20th 2010 at 10:37:13 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman