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Jul 11th 2016 at 12:59:39 PM •••

I have an issue with the Fruit Bazooke from Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped being listed under this trope for being a Game-Breaker. I don't think Game Breakers really qualify for being a Scrappy Mechanic.

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Jul 12th 2016 at 6:31:23 AM •••

Tier-Induced Scrappy goes both ways. If something is so overpowered it makes the game not fun it can apply.

That said, it seems like that'd be Scrappy Weapon, not Scrappy Mechanic.

May 25th 2016 at 2:56:06 AM •••

Went and wiped the entire "General" folder; Examples Are Not General.

Edited by LucaEarlgrey
Apr 28th 2016 at 12:25:46 PM •••

The entry on password length under "General" is correct in spirit but technically wrong. There are a number of commonly used password implementations (basically, anything storing and comparing hashed passwords rather than the passwords themselves) in which longer passwords (above a certain minimum length) don't translate into greater security or greater time required to brute-force them. Furthermore, under such systems allowing sufficiently lengthy passwords actually compromises the entire system in that it opens up ways to directly construct what are effectively "skeleton keys": passwords which the system can't distinguish from the correct one.

That said, there is no guarantee either that password length restrictions are in place because they're actually increasing security - much of the time they're an example of somebody setting a short field length in a database containing everybody's passwords (not bothering to care about security) or somebody hearing "long passwords are dangerous" (and not bothering to care enough to research the details and see if they apply) - or that if the password system does fall in the right category it's in fact an appropriate choice. The particular threat profile these password systems are designed to be secure against often doesn't match the actual dangers in places those systems are being used. (Primarily this makes it more difficult for somebody who briefly had sufficient access to grab a copy of the password database to actually use that information to log in to somebody's account; this is a serious concern in many academic and business settings, but people providing Internet-based gaming typically have more serious problems to worry about from that direction.) Security policies are often a mess of quick guesses, mandatory purchases, and arbitrary rules handed down from above rather than the result of carefully working out accountabilities, threat profiles, and likelihoods and then planning an appropriate security policy.

So yes, password length restrictions are widely disliked, for the reasons presented, and for good reasons - but those aren't quite the ones presented. In some ways it's easier to hate something which may be an example of utter stupidity and uncaring than something you're positive is.

Feb 10th 2015 at 8:23:23 PM •••

This entry has some issues;

  • Smash Tour. A game mode that takes place in a board game style where Miis run around collecting powerups and fighters. Where do the Wall Bangers begin? The game mode is incredibly boring, frustrating, and riddled with Fake Difficulty, you always need four players, the proposition of the game mode is incredibly stupid on paper, and there are challenges that require beating it a few times, or running into a rare enemy. Worst of all, this seems to be one of the fastest ways of getting custom parts. Why Sakurai developed this game mode from day one and didn't wonder Hmm? Are there any players who won't benefit from this whatsoever? Should I be working on some kind of adventure mode instead? is beyond one's comprehension.

First, this is clearly the wrong trope. It's at best a "That One Level", if anywhere. Being a Mode, not a Mechanic, it clearly doe snot belong here.

Second, this doesn't even state what's wrong with it beyond the four players bit. It's pure complaining and even taking a potshot at the Director.

Even if it can belong to a proper trope, it needs a major rewrite to remove the basic salt and actually be a proper example. I don't have any issues with people not liking it, respectively, but it still needs to follow protocol for being an example in the first place.

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Feb 10th 2015 at 10:00:46 PM •••

Examples of this kind have been historically an issue on the page, though thankfully most of them were deleted. You did well on removing this one, since it was also speaking for the troper who added it, which isn't allowed either.

Feb 11th 2015 at 4:00:17 AM •••

That's even worse. Is there even a proper scrappy trope to put it in? If not, it doesn't really belong anywhere. And that's even with a proper rewrite so it isn't just pointless bashing.

Feb 11th 2015 at 7:04:00 AM •••

It's just plain whining, kill the entry with fire and salt the earth in which it grew.

Feb 11th 2015 at 5:27:35 PM •••

I already removed it and brought it here(noting that in my edit reason).

My bigger question is if there is a proper trope to put a correctly written version of this entry on. If not, then never mind.

That said, Raining Metal has whined in the same manner in the SSB topic. Do you want me to link you the specific posts, Septimus? Because this is just a pure wonk with absolutely no constructive criticism against his disliked mode.(and I can see many reasons to dislike the mode, yet none are ever noted beyond the fact it requires 4 players... which isn't exactly odd, seeing as how Mario Party, which it's more or less based upon, the same anyway. It still doesn't explain why it's bad, so...)

Aug 16th 2014 at 1:06:33 AM •••

For some reason, the first three screens' worth of examples are all people griping about things that annoy them on websites. Since the trope description says "a game play mechanic," I've deleted them. If someone really wants them back, you should probably give them their own category at the bottom.

(And remember it's not *just* a bad mechanic, but a bad mechanic that mars something otherwise good.)

Nov 25th 2012 at 12:22:17 AM •••

Why the heck is Minecraft listed under Party/Casual Game?

Sep 23rd 2012 at 6:53:35 PM •••

Never mind, found the obvious answer to my stupid question.

Edited by Kuuenbu
Jul 14th 2012 at 6:29:02 AM •••

About the D 20 Modern Wealth system: if the player wants to be a sniper and to buy a sniper rifle, how can he roll a 2 on his die? Since taking 10 and taking 20 rules applies to wealth check (unless you are reduced to 0 wealth bonus)... If you really want that sniper rifle, you can take 20, can't you?

Edited by ElodieHiras Hide/Show Replies
Aug 16th 2012 at 11:49:20 AM •••

Also, the Windfall Feat Plexus is clearly a Loophole Abuse that makes no sense in-game. So any sane GM would disallow it. Even the game developers were pretty clear on that point in their Bullet Points.

Feb 21st 2012 at 10:24:01 AM •••

How about the "justice system" or whatever in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. The "psychic guards" and the way they could just send ESP to the next town over to share your nefarious deeds with them.

Goes entirely without notice for people playing a good character, but for an evil character really turns the game into a "be evil in the way we tell you to be evil" affair.

Jan 20th 2012 at 10:56:48 PM •••

Pulled this because the trope is about one bad rule. The example lists most aspects of gameplay.

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Feb 21st 2012 at 10:23:21 AM •••

Not on this topic... sorry, needs new one.

Edited by Madcapunlimited
Apr 6th 2011 at 2:50:30 PM •••

No mention of Black City or White Forest and the fact that you have to beat Black/White within 10 days or the city/forest will empty out and the only way to revive them is via Enternalink? Which can only be done locally?

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Jan 6th 2011 at 8:57:50 PM •••

I think we may have a Troper Tales leak in the Tabletop Games section, or at least some research failure...

"Roll-and-move can get ambiguous if your dice have just knocked your piece off the board." What's ambiguous about picking up your piece & putting it back on the board?

"[Pop-o-Matic] has its own problems; you can get a numb palm with a long game of one of these." How do you get a numb palm softly pressing a bubble once every 2 minutes?

"Others, like Candy Land and Sorry!, eschew dice for a deck of specially-printed cards. Still random, but for some reason, card randomness is less hated than dice randomness." The only randomness in Candy Land is the opening shuffle; after that point, the game is predestined.

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Feb 15th 2011 at 4:48:09 PM •••

Taken in order:

The ambiguity is not always remembering exactly where the piece came from... But the ambiguity that causes has nothing to do with the hatred for Roll and Move (and is simply resolved by not rolling on the board, but at the side of the table... And if you're bad at controlling your rolls, invest in a dice tower) - Basically a lot of bad games were made which use the Roll and Move mechanic badly, removing choice.

The pop'o'matic numb palm comes from long sessions, and most people don't softly press the buggers (actually they don't always work with a soft press, some need a firm press)

The opening shuffle in Candy Land is still randomness, it's just preloaded randomness - The difference between dice randomness and shuffle randomness is, basically, that shuffle randomness is going to be more reliably even than shuffle randomness - Yes, the game is predestined after the shuffle, but the effects of the chance on the play of the game is exactly the same as if it were dice rolls (With the slight exception that the frequency is known rather than merely being a 'most likely,' though I don't think that matters so much in a game designed to keep kids indoors and therefore safe from getting infected by polio) Regardless, the randomness in Candy Land and Sorry! (in Sorry's case, insert an 'almost' - You can pick which of two (or is it three?) cards) as 'roll the dice and move to where they say' as straight roll and move, and as such just as unpopular.

...I mean, I agree about the clean up required on there. Trim to 'roll and move' and a sub-bullet explaining that it's specifically the lack of choice involved, rather than the act of rolling dice, that bothers the majority of people who object to dice should just about cover it for the dice stuff, but I'll look again tomorrow.

Oct 26th 2010 at 6:01:36 AM •••

Hey, I think warriors orochi also needs some stuff. If ONLY ONE of your characters die, you lose.

Full metal alchemist for the DS, a dungeon fighter-esque beat'em up, has also two mechanics, one when you need to make a transmutation circle, and the stealth-based mission, which kinda sucked.

Onimusha 3: the PC port makes the game almost unwinnable because, when you are on the room where jacques has to make a puzzle to unlock the door, with poisonous gas that kills you if you don't clear it in time, henri shouting every moment... and the fact that sometimes it doesn't recognize the buttons you just press, forcing you to do the same puzzle from the beginning.

Oct 14th 2010 at 11:19:46 AM •••

People didnt like the combat in Mirror's Edge? It's the best part! Swat team is coming from the elevator, yaaay! *Slide*Nutpunch*Knee in face*Hide*Regen*Repeat* I made a point of killing every cop/swat/whatever i could find. For me, the scrappy mechanic would be throwing away the pistol instead of reloading it. Either let me reload the weapons or make all enemies stand in accessible places. It's supposed to be a jumpy runny free urban game and i cant reach the cop standing 2 metres above me? Seriously?

Oct 7th 2010 at 5:23:59 PM •••

The Pokemon section is filled with really minor complaints, things that don't deserve their own entries. It needs a clean up. For example:

  • Letting Zubat/Golbat encounters take place anywhere in a cave.

Edited by cntrational Hide/Show Replies
May 29th 2011 at 9:13:16 AM •••

I cleaned it up as best I could. It could probably still use some work, but it's a lot better.

Jul 15th 2011 at 10:27:55 PM •••

I did another minor cleaning. One entry was removed completely though. It said a game was nothing but scrappy mechanics, which doesnt fit the trope. It sounds more like a bad spin-off game or even Complaining About Games You Dont Like

Sep 16th 2012 at 4:31:40 PM •••

Speaking of which, what happened to the pokemon section?

Sep 30th 2010 at 5:08:25 PM •••

Aw c'mon, I start wanting to edit things on the site and become an ative troper, and THIS happens! Why is this happening? It sucks!

Jun 16th 2010 at 7:44:42 PM •••

I think the Star Wars D20 System comment is Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. I find the D20 system very easy to understand (you roll a D20 + modifiers, and try to get your target number), and I think the reason Wot C didn't use the old system was because it was developed and licensed for West End Games, while Wot C had its own system it wanted to use.

That being said, before Saga Edition, I do agree Wot C's Star Wars Roleplaying game systems were piles of unmitigated crap.

Edited by Peteman Hide/Show Replies
Aug 18th 2011 at 7:50:13 AM •••

Saga edition isn't any better; "arbitrary usage limits on force powers" is itself a Scrappy Mechanic.

Mar 15th 2010 at 12:40:47 PM •••

According to its page, Red Steel has one, anyone care to jog my memory as to what that was?

Type the word in the image. This goes away if you get known.
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