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Feb 23rd 2016 at 6:03:25 AM •••

This is listed under the Doctor Who example"

  • The Doctor himself is also one. He just happens to be the good guy.

Now, the Doctor's definitely vain and has an ego, there's no denying that. But the trope description also goes on to say:

It is insufficient for a character to simply be extremely vain or excessively preoccupied with one's selfish desires to qualify for this trope. Rather, such characters must display (1) both of these qualities along with (2) a glaringly apparent Lack of Empathy as well as (3) a deep-rooted obsession with how they are regarded in the minds of others (a trait manifested through pervasively domineering and/or manipulative behavior). Likewise, characters that act like arrogant, selfish jerkasses but nevertheless regularly serve others' needs at the expense of their own are not narcissists.

The Doctor routinely displays empathy for others, disinterest in how others see him, a lack of selfishness and regularly serves the needs of others at the expense of his own. Ergo, according to the trope description, I'd argue that he doesn't belong in this trope. Or, alternatively, that the entry needs a lot more clarification (since, granted, some of his incarnations can teeter here more than others).

Oct 14th 2013 at 12:53:35 PM •••

Shouldn't some of the description be moved to analysis or useful notes? This used to be a normal trope page until somebody decided to copy the stuff from the narcissism section in Hollywood personality disorders over to this page.

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Oct 14th 2013 at 6:03:54 PM •••

I disagree here. Redundancy is not a great thing, but I don't tend to support removing information unless it's very hotly disputed.

If redundancy must be avoided at whatever cost, then the page should be deleted and searches for it redirected to Hollywood Personality Disorders. I don't think that's too good either, as it messes up pages that link to the page, but it's better than keeping the page but taking a lot of info off it.

Jul 2nd 2013 at 3:42:35 AM •••

The character of Angel (from Buffy The Vampire Slayer and then the eponymous spinoff) is classified as a Narcissist? Without a soul (as Angelus) he's an outright Sociopath, which is even worse...but Angel is so clearly heroic and self-sacrificing it's a huge misclassification.

A better Buffy-universe example of a Narcissist might be Spike before he got a soul, or possibly Harmony (human or vampire version).

Yet, so much is written on it I feel wrong deleting it, and due to the "Repair, Don't Respond" policy I can't just voice my disagreement on the main page.

Should I just delete, or...what?

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Nov 12th 2013 at 10:56:59 AM •••

Angel does have a tendency to view everything that happens around him as being aimed at him, but he's The Protagonist in Angel, so it pretty much is. I wouldn't care if you cut it.

May 2nd 2014 at 9:33:27 AM •••

It's made clear in the show that he is a narcissist. If he's not well-characterised according to real life clinical definitions of narcissism, perhaps there's a relevant trope or YMMV item you can find for his work or character page to cover the subject in a more appropriate way? Maybe one of the tropes on the Hollywood Psych page would be applicable?

The trope page shouldn't be used as a soap-box, especially when the Wiki isn't a medical site and the medical qualifications of people commenting on the accuracy isn't exactly easy to verify. I'm sure there's a more appropriate way to highlight the issue of how it's portrayed in the show without it turning into a soap-box. It's just an idea on how to address it, anyway.

Edited by 2.101.104.252
May 2nd 2014 at 9:47:21 AM •••

Pretty sure that the trope more at play here is It's All About Me.

Angel freaking hates himself. He's a bit sensitive about his appearance and does (... somewhat rightfully, given the setting) an It's All About Me attitude, but that's about it. He definitely doesn't qualify as a narcissist.

EDIT: Okay, so I looked at the entries themselves. Angel's just a bad example. The man had literally never seen himself in over a hundred years, he was more in awe about that than anything else. He was equally distracted by being able to be in the sun in that dimension without dying, but that isn't a sign of a personality disorder.

Edited by 156.33.241.8
May 3rd 2014 at 6:32:27 AM •••

I assume the example's used because he obsesses about his hair which becomes the focus of the narcissistic joke in the scene. While the audience can observe he hasn't seen himself for a very long time, the joke isn't that he's obsessed because he hasn't seen himself for so long but because he always worries about his appearance so much and now he can see he's not portraying the image he thought he was.

The narcissism jokes are played with through all five seasons, beginning with Spike mocking his obsession with his appearance and his delight in melodrama to leave a lasting impression on the people he rescues. The writers made it clear that Angel was supposed to be a narcissist, but given that they loved using it for laughs, I think they didn't want accuracy, just comedy. That may well be better placed under It's All About Me than here, as a result of its bad handling.

Edited by 78.148.54.53
May 4th 2014 at 4:40:11 PM •••

He's defensive about his hair, but hardly obsessive. The only times he brings up his hair is in a "does it really look like that" situation (as in he's self-conscious, not narcissistic) or when people insult his appearance.

May 5th 2014 at 10:11:14 AM •••

Basically, he's a bit vain, but "a bit vain" really shouldn't qualify someone for The Narcissist.

Jan 19th 2013 at 8:43:22 PM •••

My dad has a book called The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists, so does that mean the wizard should go under this?

Dec 15th 2012 at 11:49:13 AM •••

Can we include a list of people who have been professionally diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder? The Other Wiki has a category for these people.

  • Anders Behring Breivik
  • Brian Blackwell
  • Betty Broderick
  • Brian Jared Smart
  • Diane Downs
  • Barry George
  • John Hinckley. Jr
  • Mohammed Merah
  • Sam Vaknin
  • Clayton Weatherstone

Lot of Brians.

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Jul 5th 2013 at 4:36:24 PM •••

Transformers Prime is definitely a page. Why is it so difficult to link to?

Jul 5th 2013 at 4:54:28 PM •••

Because you're not including the Western Animation namespace. It should be Transformers: Prime, not Transformers Prime.

Armada worked because there's a redirect. You still should've put it under Anime, but it worked. Prime was made after we started using Namespaces for all works.

Edited by 216.99.32.43
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