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Aug 29th 2018 at 2:33:57 AM •••

Found this on Xenoblade Chronicles 2: While it was settled amicably in game, much like Shulk/Melia in the first Xenoblade at least some fans would have preferred if the final canon couple was Rex/Nia since they too were interacting with each other since the start of the game and visually are much closer in age than Pyra or Mythra. In the New Game+ title screen, Nia jumps in to hold hands with Rex (or push Rex out of the way to hold hands with Pyra and Mythra), edging this ship closer to canon, albeit with Nia as an addition to the canon romance rather than an alternative. I believe the rules read: \"No listing pairings that are less popular than rival pairings. Yes, this means it\'s not a Fan-Preferred Couple if the Official Couple is more fan-preferred than it.\"

Permission to cut this?

Jan 14th 2017 at 6:54:57 PM •••

One thing that doesn't make sense to me about criteria number two is how you determine THE most popular couple. Fanart and fanfiction is certainly the most common way, but the numbers don't always match up. Like, in the Harry Potter section it says Draco/Hermione gets the most fanfiction on, but in AO 3 and Tumblr, Draco/Harry's more popular. Wouldn't it just make more sense to change number two to "must be popular"?

Edited by Apocrypha
Mar 4th 2016 at 4:39:35 AM •••

I've been thinking about this for a while: What is the real difference between this trope and One True Pairing?

I mean, I know the former is supposed to apply when the ship is not canon (whether an Official Couple exists or not). But, the way both tropes are written, they overlap so often nonetheless that having two feels a bit pointless.

Maybe Fan-Preferred Couple should be a sub-trope of OTP? And/Or maybe add some other rule, like, for example, that a Fan-Preferred Couple only applies if the canon explicitly sinks the ship? In other words, if the ship hasn't happen yet, but there's still a reasonable chance that it will at some point (for example, the characters involved are not in a romantic relationship with a third party), then it would count as an OTP, but not as a Fan-Preferred Couple.

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Jul 7th 2016 at 2:32:37 PM •••

the way i see it i believe it's when paring is more popular than Official Couple while OTP is merely when couple is prefered over others. The description doesn't explicitly state that less popular Official Couple must exist but most of it compare FPC to Official Couple so i think that's it.

Dec 5th 2015 at 7:56:58 AM •••

The guidelines for what counts as a fan-preferred couple apply to works' YMMV pages too, yes or no? Asking since Digimon Adventure tri. has some examples and the last one starts off with "Of course, there are many other fan preferred pairings in the fandom as well" and then lists off other couples with characters already previously mentioned... which I assume defeats the purpose of the trope.

Aug 24th 2015 at 7:00:08 AM •••

Can a couple that broke up be a Fan-Preferred Couple?

Say a couple is an Official Couple, then they break up. If the fans still greatly want them to get back together, can they be a FPC even though they used to be an OC?

Dec 8th 2014 at 11:24:46 PM •••

I made separate folders in the Fan prefered couple western animation page. Like in 'Die for Our ship' I made a Het folder, a ho yay folder and a incest,etc folder. I put Flippy/Flaky in the etc folder because....Flaky's gender is ambiguous and I didn't know where else to put the example. I did the best I could to put alot of show examples in my knowledge in their proper folder. Although shows I'm not familiar may still be in the wrong folder. If that's the case, please correct the errors for me. I'm sorry for any inconvenience. Thank you.

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Dec 23rd 2014 at 11:53:51 PM •••

Die for Our Ship, at least, has no caveats regarding what ultimately counts. I feel like dividing the page thusly encourages misuse—i.e., someone feels like they can add the most popular het, slash, and incest ships, even if they concern the same characters and even if they're not more popular than the main couple.

Dec 30th 2014 at 2:11:34 AM •••

You wanna read and learn "There's lots of Brian/Stewie(from "Family Guy" fanworks with tons of Rule34 with them getting it on.)" and be scarred for life, that's fine. But I DON'T.

Like with the Die for Our Ship page, it took me all my courage to scroll through them before making folders.

Dec 30th 2014 at 2:29:29 AM •••

Candy Cane has been suspended. Splitting pages unilaterally like that is not permitted.

Sep 29th 2014 at 2:28:09 AM •••

Two things:

1. I want to add a Disgaea section since Soul Nomad is listed.

2. I want to delete the Kid Icarus section for two reasons.

Pit is shipped with everyone so just because Pit has one Ship Tease moment with Viridi does not make them the fan preferred couple.
I do not see any artwork of Dark Pit and Phosphora whatsoever and just seems to be there with no evidence to back up the claim.

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Sep 29th 2014 at 3:37:23 AM •••

Well, regarding the two Kid Icarus arguments, the first argument doesn't look like an argument at all. And for the second, maybe you just haven't found it yet.

Mar 7th 2014 at 6:25:40 PM •••

1. The ending to Pretty in Pink was changed because Molly Ringwald demanded it, not because of the test audiences.

2. I admit that I'm not exactly a fan of Streets of Fire, and I don't hate the movie either, but am I the only one who ships Billy Fish x McCoy?

Feb 16th 2014 at 1:23:09 PM •••

No because then it's a canon pairing. This trope is when a FANON pairing is more popular then a canon pairing.

Jul 12th 2014 at 11:35:31 PM •••

I was wondering about a couple from The Wakefield Legacy: The Untold Story, a history of twin's ancestors in Sweet Valley High. The twin's paternal great-grandfather (Ted) and maternal great-great-aunt (Amanda) fall in love but their romance is thwarted thanks to her scheming twin. He marries a fellow journalist (Julia) instead. I almost positive the readers are supposed to see Amanda as Ted's true love and Julia as his second choice but most fans feel that Julia is the better match for him.

Edited by
Aug 17th 2012 at 3:31:08 AM •••

Many examples give the number of fanfics as proof of a couple being fan preferred but I don't think that's a good way to gauge. There's a lot more incentive to write a fanfic about a pairing that's not canon because you want to make it happen. If you love a canon pairing, why would you want to write a story about them? It's already happened and your wish has come true. Of course it still happens but not as much.

Triple Elation has already alluded to this below but I just wanted to make it a seperate point.

Edited by Waterlily
Aug 15th 2012 at 3:23:13 AM •••

Could someone fix up the Adventure Time example? it massively breaks the "No listing two different pairings with the same character in them" but I can't delete anything because the couple the show itself prefers isn't clear, nor which of the remainders the fans prefer "most". It seems more like a Love Dodecahedron than this trope. Glee also has a similar problem. Does it count as this trope if there really isnt just one official couple,and it COULD go either way?

Edited by IronAnimation
Aug 15th 2012 at 3:05:59 AM •••

Is it this trope if the most talked about pairing is a crack pairing, not related to the main official couple? Does the fannon vs cannon ship have to share a character to count. The rule against having the same character involved in 2 top couples seems to imply this,but we should mention it in the article.

Edited by IronAnimation
Nov 14th 2011 at 4:02:16 AM •••

I wonder, does it have to be a criteria that every character in a particular fandom has only one couple they can be in (as in, the Fan-Preferred Couple).

Why not instead state that rather than the couple, it's the character in particular couple which is the fan-preferred choice for that individual.

For example, say that in Harry Potter, Harry is most commonly paired with Ginny/Hermione/Draco/etc. Basically, if one of these isn't the Official Couple, then that is HARRY's Fan-Preferred Couple.

Next, say that Luna Lovegood is most commonly paired with Harry in fanfics, rather than Neville/Rolf/etc. For LUNA, the Fan-Preferred Couple is Harry/Luna - while she's not his majority, he is her majority.

Does this make any sense?

I only brought this up because I think limiting characters in this wasy comes off as neglectful and short-sighted. While there are plenty of Shipping tropes, acknowledging whether a certain character's most common couple collides with another one is, I think, also a priority.

Unless we create a whole new trope for this...


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Apr 11th 2012 at 6:04:39 PM •••

Back in 4th Grade, I asked the girl who I had a crush on what her favorite couples on the schoolyard were. While I was disappointed that I wasn't paired with her, I noted that two of her five pairs had one person in common.

I guess what you're talking about is the opposite of Cleaning Up Romantic Loose Ends: i.e. the realization that, while Character A seems best with Character B, B seems best with C, but C seems best with D, etc.

Granted, that would still be "fan preferred" if a sizable portion of fans would think that way. Still, Shipping fans are rabid beasts, so there are very few situations where an Escape Raft is recognized. (Getting individual fans to admit to having Escape Rafts is another story, though it's a rare fandom that has a common raft.) There are exceptions, however.

While it is ultimately more fair for the characters,, doing it the way you suggest would make the sections explode, requiring an Example Removal to the Works pages. Though that might not be a bad thing...

Apr 24th 2012 at 9:15:50 AM •••

That actually seems like a good idea.

Edited by flocculentCamelidae
May 15th 2012 at 9:12:23 PM •••

The most part of this Trope is YMMV, or pure speculation, or just Fan-Shipping. This should be one of those "No Examples" pages.

Sep 30th 2011 at 5:50:36 PM •••

In the Doctor Who fandom the fan preferred couple is being subverted a bit more in series 6. The Official Couples of Rory/Amy and River/The Doctor are picking up a lot more fans, especially in fanfiction, to the point where River/Eleven is more popular than Amy/Eleven.

Jul 6th 2011 at 9:49:44 AM •••

Ulquiorra Uchiha, why do you keep removing Alice and Bob from the Example as a Thesis in favor of Alexis, Bill and Cathy?

I'm not blindly reverting you again because that would be borderline edit warring. Still, "Alice", "Bob", et al. are well-known lingo for "insert name here". They're unique in that regard, and as far as I can see what you're doing is harming the clarity of the article. Just... Why? What have Alice and Bob done to you?

Jun 23rd 2011 at 12:30:43 PM •••

•"The Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni fandom is split on who Keiichi should be with, but everyone seems to agree whatever pairing should happen, the Official Couple is not it."

This is confusingly worded (which is odd, because I remember this page having an earlier version that was fine, so I can't see why it was changed). As far as I know, Higurashi simply doesn't have an Official Couple; all that's official is that Mion has feelings for Keiichi (stated in Kai 23) and Rena almost certainly has a crush on him as well (heavily implied in the rooftop battle) but neither pairing has become a couple by the end of the series.

Jun 11th 2011 at 6:38:36 AM •••

  • In Tiny Toon Adventures, Fifi la Fume's occasional official love interest is Hamton J. Pig, mostly because of Pair the Spares. However, a quick search on Deviant ART reveals that a sizable portion of the fandom prefers to ship Fifi with either of her love chase victims, Calamity Coyote or Furrball Cat, the latter likely due to her predecessor Pepe le Pew being officially paired with Penelope Pussycat.
    • Though, in all fairness, Hamton is also a popular choice, mostly because of the "Prom-ise Her Anything" episode.

Can anybody explain why Hamton can't have a mentioning as a fan preferred love interest for Fifi on here, eventhough he was given a mentioning on the Tiny Toon Adventures page (under YMMV)?

May 18th 2011 at 10:15:14 PM •••

Can I get a source/link to where Word of God has left these "hints" and what not of some relationship between Cloud and Sephiroth?

Because I've never anything by the creators that says anything more than "they're enemies, they hate each other."

Same for Nomura apparently stating somewhere that Axel and Roxas had the "closest thing to love" a nobody could feel. That seems pretty damn out there for nomura considering he doesn't give solid info like that and likes to keep things ambiguous not only to keep the fans thinking, but because there often isn't a pairing at all and he wants to keep it that way.

I'm just going to remove that remark without a proper source.

Edited by AlexTheSoutherner
Apr 19th 2011 at 1:57:58 PM •••

"iCarly's Official Couple is Carly/Freddie. Sam/Freddie is the preferred couple. Fans are a far more vocal and numerous part of the fandom than the other ships, despite (or possibly because of) the two characters being pretty hostile. Needless to say, there is a lot of ship warring."

...can freddie/carly be counted as an Official Couple if they were officially together for one episode and they broke up by the end of it, with them having no inclination whatsoever to get back together even one season later?

should be noted that the iCarly main page is also currently under scrutiny for bias and ship warring.

EDIT: took down the example from the trope page for the moment, if anyone wants to add it in, please make an argument for it here.

Edited by carla
Apr 9th 2011 at 8:05:11 PM •••

Just a quick note, On the fact that on the fan preferred couple page If some people does not agree with a fan pairing they think no one else does either, and believe the post calls for automatic deletion. That isn’t the case, if a couple is preferred as an alternative to an official canon couple by fans that is a fan preferred couple.

Take note of the very picture used for this said trope, “Zuko and Katara “ while is not as poplar as the more official “Aang and Katara”. It is still a fan preferred couple alternative to Aang & Katara nonetheless.

Edited by Kiske Hide/Show Replies
Apr 14th 2011 at 12:07:35 PM •••

A Zuko and Katara pairing is the picture for this page then people have the tendency to complain about anything that don't fit there thoughts,It's strange isn't? But don't feel bad about it, everybody here is not rude.

Apr 14th 2011 at 1:42:26 PM •••

If you're talking about the Love Hina example, I didn't keep on deleting it because I don't like it (I do like it, as a matter of fact); I deleted it because I thought it didn't have enough of a fandom presence to merit its inclusion. If people added every pairing that a group of fans preferred to the official canon couple to this article, it would become as long as War And Peace. So while couples like Zuko/Katara are still on here, that's mainly because they're popular enough to have gained notoriety in fandom overall. From what I've seen, while there are some LH fans clamoring for pairings other than Keitaro/Naru, Keitaro/Naru is still pretty much the undisputed main pairing in the fandom. You can't say the same for Aang/Katara, Negi/Nodoka, etc.

In fact, Keitaro/Mutsumi was originally listed here before it got purged in a mass edit done specifically to remove all examples that didn't fit the trope's guidelines to avoid Trope Decay. (That edit wasn't done by me, by the way.) So while I'm leaving Keitaro/Mutsumi in for now, don't be surprised if it gets deleted by another troper down the road.

Apr 15th 2011 at 6:33:41 PM •••

Understood the page would be extremely long, I saw a post about fan preferred couples by another troper it said examples went on the fan preferred couple pages. Love Hina being a romance story and all looks like it would fit nicely on this page even just to have a little mention here. In response about the fandom presence of Keitaro/Mutsumi pairing, In fairness I’ve never seen Zuko paired with Katara before this page though.

I guess we will all see things we haven’t before, with so many people though it’s a given.

Apr 18th 2011 at 4:14:19 PM •••

If I was Keitaro I'd be trying for a Keitaro/Mutsumi relationship but that's probably because I like her the best, shes soooo sweet. Nice girl 4tw! ^_^

May 9th 2011 at 2:59:31 AM •••

Otohime Mutsumi was a great match for Keitaroe she loved him and she won't beat him to a pulp, Avatar's newer so it would be talked about now,Love Hina's manga came out in Japan in late nineteen ninety eight but it being around longer should help it's notability.

Somebody put up Android 18 and Trunks as more preferred than Krillin and 18!? when compared to trite such as that should we even have to question the cozy parring of Keitaro&Mutsumi.

Oct 14th 2011 at 1:58:17 AM •••

Okay, I know this is an old discussion topic, but I just saw this again and feel like some things need to be cleared up here regarding Keitaro/Mutsumi and why it doesn't belong in this article in spite of all the raving about it here, especially since someone repeatedly tried to edit it back into the article not too long ago.

Just because you think a pairing is better than the canon one does not mean that it is a Fan Preferred Couple. You might think that Mutsumi is the perfect girl for Keitaro and Naru is an abusive bitch, but if Keitaro/Mutsumi isn't as popular as Keitaro/Naru, then it's not a FPC. Period. And considering that the Love Hina section on Fanfiction Dot Net has Keitaro/Mutsumi fics being outnumbered by not only Keitaro/Naru but Keitaro/Motoko and Keitaro/Shinobu, I highly doubt you can even say that Keitaro/Mutsumi is the most popular non-canon pairing for Keitaro.

I'll admit that I did try to put Keitaro/Mutsumi back in the article once before (as mentioned in my earlier reply above), because the Keitaro/Mutsumi editor seemed so passionate about it. However, that was before I fully realized that this article is not a place to promote one's favorite pairings or explain why a fanon pairing is so much better than a canon one. It is a place to list fanon pairings that are supported by a majority of fandom, not just by you or a Vocal Minority of fans — and from what I've seen, it's doubtful that Keitaro/Mutsumi is even the second most popular pairing for Keitaro in the overall Love Hina fandom.

Apr 2nd 2011 at 1:52:37 PM •••

Questioning Harry/Ginny as Fan-Preferred Couple in Harry Potter.

how do we actually determine the popularity of a pairing? I did a simple search on (Disregarding length, language, rating, etc, only looking at the character pairing). Harry + Ginny has about 18,500 fics, Harry + Hermione has 20,500 or so fics. Then again, Hermione + Draco has 38,800 fics, so would that be the "most popular" pair?

then again, fanficcers can be considered the "vocal minority" of fans and subsets within a subset aren't always representative...

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Apr 11th 2011 at 11:34:01 PM •••

That's a good question. I think that the best way to go about it is looking at several different sources: not just but also Live Journal, polls, Deviant Art, which pairings general fans seem to agree on, etc. It's very true that sometimes fanficcers are only a Vocal Minority and a pairing only seems less popular than another one because it has a Silent Majority that simply doesn't write as many fics or speak up more often, but maybe you can get a more reliable idea of what's fan-preferred by poking around in different circles of fandom?

I remember thinking way back some time ago that England/Japan was the undisputed FPC for Japan even in Western fandom; after all, its LJ pairing community had almost twice as many members and posts as for the Greece/Japan one and it had more fanfics on overall. But then one England/Japan fan told me this actually wasn't the case: if you look at pairing popularity polls or take in account all the fics that have one of these pairings as a side pairing, Greece/Japan comes out ahead of England/Japan. England/Japan is more popular with fans who have Japan as part of their main pairing, but Greece/Japan is more popular with fans who don't have Japan as part of their main pairing, and the latter makes up a large majority of Western fandom. So yeah, doesn't always represent true pairing popularity.

Jul 6th 2011 at 9:56:30 AM •••

I think the discrepancy you're seeing in is because ever since Half-Blood Prince came out, there'd obviously been much more of an emotional motivation for people to write Harry/Hermione Fix Fics than fics for a ship that's already an Official Couple. Still, that sort of consideration is not covered in the article at the moment, which may have to be fixed.

EDIT: Used google and found this. Holy cow.

Edited by TripleElation
Jul 19th 2011 at 3:19:24 PM •••

I was going to bring this up too.

From what I've seen, Ginny/Harry don't fit this trope at all. They're one of the two official couples and they don't have nearly as many fanfics written about them as other couples (Hermione/Harry, Ron/Hermione, and other canon and fanon pairings get a lot more). They also don't get nearly as many results on deviantart, livejournal, or google.

I suggest the Harry/Ginny pairing be removed from the examples and possibly replaced by one that fits the criteria better like Harry/Hermione or Hermione/Draco if enough evidence can be produced in favor of them.

Edited by Lacey
Jul 19th 2011 at 5:25:08 PM •••

I'm pretty sure the trope is about non-canon pairings, so I honestly have no idea why Harry/Ginny is there.

Jul 26th 2011 at 2:10:59 PM •••

Since no one objected to Ginny/Harry being removed from the examples in the last week, I went ahead and took them off. Are there any HP fanon pairings that fit the trope? Some others were mentioned, but most of them were conflicting.

Nov 14th 2011 at 4:06:02 AM •••

Well, Harry/Luna is really popular, and is in fact Luna's most popular (in terms of number of fics). It's not exactly Harry's, though, if we're using the same criteria... Harry/Hermione arguably counts, unless you continue using numbers (wherein Harry/Draco has the most supporters).

The HP fandom is a very complicated beast.

Sep 17th 2010 at 3:35:02 PM •••

Question. Is it alright to add Shizuo/Izaya from Durarara. When I look at all websites from Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art, Manga Fox, etc, all I see is that Shizaya is the most well liked pairing. And even though Narita stated that that the two would never be in a relationship he provides A LOT of Ship Tease to the point where you actually doubt his words. (See the page for the examples.)

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Aug 23rd 2010 at 9:45:30 PM •••

The Naruto part with Hinata is a bit too... bias and um... what's the word... oh yeah, fanboyish. I think it should be fixed a bit to be more objective. Specifically to lay off the Naru Saku hate.

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Jul 26th 2010 at 4:50:58 AM •••

In accordance with my own post two subjects above and with faux officiality intended to impose a false sense of consensus and intimidate anyone who might object, I have started cutting down on the examples/natter extensively to weed away anything that amounts to "there's also support for pairing X". Gone through Anime/Manga and Comics so far. It really pains me to do this because I find myself cutting stuff about fandoms I have no clue about, so I can't replace it with brilliant prose (Which is obviously superior to cutting).

It also pains me to do this because chances are these pairings aren't less popular, it's just that their fans didn't have the audacity to claim that they are popular enough to be this trope. In some places where I saw a lot of work went into an entry I went ahead and decided to be audacious for them in hopes Wiki Magic would slam the wrong ones.

Well anyway I don't delude myself that this is going to be in any way popular, but the point is, if your favorite obviously-an-example was mutilated or taken down this wasn't out of judgment or malice, but because I really have no clue. Just put it back in and make sure to phrase it so it lays a coherent claim to be this trope.

Edited by TripleElation Hide/Show Replies
Jul 26th 2010 at 8:40:19 AM •••

There, there. You Did Everything You Could. The truly worthy examples will come back with the help of Wiki Magic. For now, we're better off having examples that are at least well-explained. Good work.

Jul 30th 2010 at 3:38:30 PM •••

Also cut down a bit on the examples too. Here's to hoping that I didn't go overboard either and that Wiki Magic will do its job too.

Jul 31st 2010 at 5:36:05 AM •••

Great. Which sections do we have left that need work?

Jul 18th 2010 at 6:57:20 PM •••

Completely revised the main body. While the Alice and Bob Example As Thesis was clever to a point, it was being extremely narrow in its definition of a FPC and gave the impression that all FPCs arise from Bad Writing of canonical relationships. Which, if you so much as skim through all of the examples on this page, you'll note that it definitely doesn't apply to at least half of the series listed. Besides, what about the series that don't have Official Couples? What would the presence of a Fan Preferred Couple for them indicate then? Maybe that shipping has very few limits to it, and that it doesn't even have to make sense. :O)

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Jul 18th 2010 at 9:48:39 PM •••

1. I get what you're saying, but I think we can at least salvage something out of the previous text. Being just an example is pretty much the point of Example as a Thesis- Maybe it could have been rewritten to put the emphasis more on the core of the trope.

2. Now the trope is swung way, way in the other direction of the objective/subjective axis. As it is it's an invitation to Gush About Pairings You Like, and given that /any/ given ship has at least one fan somewhere it's approaching People Sit On Chairs territory.

Jul 18th 2010 at 11:14:31 PM •••

I tried to reinstate the good parts, sans cruft, plus references to your misgivings. Plus a tiny push back in the direction of not completely subjective tropes. There's actual trope material here and it'd be a shame if we eventually have to move it to Sugar Wiki.

I'm not trying to edit war here and obviously you can revert if that strikes your fancy, but... deleting and overriding the whole thing without salvaging a single sentence is really overkill. The Example As Thesis had taken completely over the earlier version and that was a problem, so the solution to that was to trim it to sane proportions, not to nuke it. Same with the quote at the top, which has to do with a serious contender for the Most Triumphant Example of this trope. I just don't see why it needed to go.

It seems to me your "straight description" additions were really great and helped the article a lot.

Edited by TripleElation
Jul 19th 2010 at 12:25:35 PM •••

Good points! I like the new article; I think it's much better now. My main aim was trying to make clear that Fan Preferred Couples don't arise from just Bad Writing; the Example As Thesis nagged at me because it seemed so narrow. I can see now that I made it too broad, so I'm glad that others jumped in to improve it; that's what Wiki Magic is for!

Jul 16th 2010 at 8:17:06 PM •••

We're not quite there yet, but I think some preemptive action is called for here in order to avert Trope Decay. It seems to me two factors go into whether a pairing is a legit example:

1. Put all fans who ship anything with one of the involved characters in it inside a room. Throw a brick. How likely are you to hit a fan of the pairing?

2. Objectively, what seem to be its chances of gaining Official Couple status, or at least avoiding getting sunk (by Word of God, trumped by rival pairing, etc.)?

Intuitively this trope is at play if when given the answer to 2, the answer to 1 should raise some eyebrows. Now of course both are subjective to some extent which is why this is under subjective tropes, but still when listing an example one should at least try to make some case for it being an example, even from a subjective point of view.

e.g. The Shaggy/Daphne example from Scooby-Doo. Canon validation claimed: Nearly none. Size of fanbase claimed: Small (obviously meant as small, compared to the competition), which is exactly what you would expect. Seems to me it's not this trope and should go in the Scooby-Doo entry, under "shipping".

Edited by TripleElation
Jun 6th 2010 at 12:52:15 PM •••

Triple Elation, I keep deleting the polls you put up because they're badly conducted polls. If, for example, you were to go to a Naruto/Tenten pairing thread on that same site, the pairing poll there is probably going to lean towards Naruto/Tenten. Does that mean that Naruto/Tenten is the series' Fan-Preferred Couple? No, it doesn't.

This site is not Wikipedia and There Is No Such Thing As Notability. That, however, is not a license to excuse research fallacies.

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Jun 6th 2010 at 5:39:44 PM •••

All right, I thought this was just a random drive-by editing. The wiki is full of those and I was getting frustrated with the mindless reverting. I admire your civil reply to my lashing out, which was pure venting and I did not expect would be actually read by whoever removed the links.

I'm fine with things as they are (just no link). That said, as far as I recall, none of the threads were specific pairing threads; they were standard polls in the main forum. What do you mean by "badly conducted", or did I miss something? More importantly yet, after taking the time to write this paragraph, will I ever be able to honestly claim that I have a life?

Jun 7th 2010 at 2:08:21 PM •••

It's because the polls are unscientific. In order for any poll to be scientific, a credible source of information, there's a process that the person conducting it has to go through. One of the most important things to keep in mind is the process of random sampling to ensure that the poll results won't be skewed in any particular direction. That's why you go through a member list and, for example, pick out every 20th person and ask them to take the poll. That's your random sample right there.

Narutofan is a major fan site, but what if there is a higher proportion of Naruto/Hinata fans that frequent that site when compared to other major fan sites? If you don't use random sampling, the poll results could be vastly different from site to site or even within a single site depending on what the subject is.

Polls can be fun, but unless they're scientific polls, they shouldn't be used as evidence since they're unreliable.

And I wouldn't worry about "not having a life." Your reaction just means you took offense at something that pushed your buttons, which happens to everyone. Admitting that you were lashing out speaks volumes about who you are since not everyone will admit to that.

Edited by RedViking
Jun 7th 2010 at 9:33:23 PM •••

I get what you're saying about the poll being unscientific. I just don't feel we should be holding anything to these standards around here. Consider that virtually all examples in TV Tropes, including subjective tropes, are listed just because one person decided to add that in. One person! Talk about unscientific! And here they asked over two hundred and fifty of them. If you're familiar with statistics (and I suspect you are), you'd know that credibility gains are not linear. Just imagine for a minute that in truth, every example in here is prefaced by an invisible "This Troper thinks that...". Any remotely decent poll compares mightily fine to that.

I believe you can have something that's not a shining beacon of research methodology but still has a point. The supposed sources of bias (Fans of one faction are more likely to answer polls? To go online? To flock to this specific website?) are purely theoretical and we have no reason to suspect they are true, as far as I can see. Again, that's not good enough in general, but I think it's good enough for here.

Why? Well, IMO when listing an example for a subjective trope we should take all the justification we can get (and this is about as good as it's going to get; nobody is going to conduct a rigorous investigation of nigh anything mentioned in this website, ever). Decent justification is what staves off the inevitable "lol i beg to differ" justifying edit and/or blanking with "lol i beg to differ" edit summary and/or natter and/or obligatory YMMV stamp that waters down discussion until nothing is an example of everything, and you end up having to do an Example Sectionectomy like in the Shipping article. But again, I see your point and I'm fine with things as they are as long as we don't find ourselves slipping down that aforementioned slippery slope.

Edited by TripleElation
Apr 26th 2010 at 9:52:01 PM •••

Revised the Inuyasha example because of its blatant shipping bias. (...Just when was Sesshomaru/Rin made canon? Wasn't Rin a little girl for most of the series, and wasn't she stated to be getting ready to leave Sesshomaru's care in the Distant Finale?) The original entry is preserved below:

  • In Inuyasha, there is a never-ending battle between shippers of the canon pairing, Sesshoumaru and Rin, and those of Ghostship Sesshoumaru and Kagura. Though it is argued there were many points in the canon where it seemed their affection may not have been entirely one-sided on Kagura's part, Sesshoumaru's future intentions for Morality Pet Rin were made clear upon her second death in the Hell arc, the only clear emotions shown Kagura his initial annoyance with her and, later, compassion towards her plight most notably at the time of her death, considering using Tenseiga but the sword failing to respond. He is also popularly paired with his half-brother, Inu Yasha, who is often embroiled in his own Ship Wars between fans of Sess/Inu, Inu/Kik and Official Couple Inu/Kag alike.

Look, I don't want to get embroiled in whatever Sesshomaru/Rin vs. Sesshomaru/Kagura Ship-to-Ship Combat that has apparently made its way onto this wiki, but I was just a casual reader of Inuyasha and while I preferred Sesshomaru/Rin over Sesshomaru/Kagura (largely because of Kagura being kind of dead), it always seemed more like a fanon than a canon pairing to me. Your Mileage May Vary of course, but if there's going to be this much disagreement over which one is the 'canon' couple, it's probably better to relegate these pairings to the Ship-to-Ship Combat article.

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Apr 27th 2010 at 9:47:15 AM •••

The original was worded this way:

  • In Inuyasha, there canonically seemed to be some feelings developing between Sesshomaru and Kagura, but it only ever got to Ship Tease level and didn't really go anywhere because Kagura died. Nonetheless, people prefer to pair him with Rin or Kagome, even though Rin is more like a daughter/Morality Pet for him and Kagome is in an Official Couple with Inuyasha.

Seemed workable and objective enough. Who the hell changed it into that monstrosity of fanon?

Jan 23rd 2012 at 1:53:28 PM •••

Kagura being dead doesn't mean it's not canon. If he had feelings for her it's canon, and he does. Kikyo is dead and no one says Inu/Kikyo isn't canon.

Edited by flocculentCamelidae
Apr 12th 2010 at 10:53:29 PM •••

Um, isn't the trope picture Batman and Catwoman? Aren't they the canon one? The Batman entry on the page would imply Batman/anyone else is the fan-preferred couple.

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Apr 12th 2010 at 11:47:53 PM •••

Batman doesn't have a girlfriend.

He's Batman.

They're still really popular together.

Apr 17th 2010 at 5:54:30 PM •••

Actually Batman is still single and Bruce is dead for now. He and Selina had an ongoing fling, and who knows where it will end up when he gets better. It's just the only example I could think of that was better than whatever anime was there before and people insist on putting back for some reason. Please, if someone thinks of something more recognizable and better, have at it. However, I'm going to keep knocking off that Anime pic because it's not illustrating the trope.

Apr 17th 2010 at 6:21:52 PM •••

It's Western Animation, actually. And it's currently being made into a live-action film. I know next to nothing about the series, but I think the picture illustrated the trope pretty well.

Edited by sjou
Apr 17th 2010 at 8:38:11 PM •••

I'm for keeping the pic. Yes, I know the series Avatar:TLA pretty well but it illustrates the trope well and it's stayed on the page for quite some time. I say take it to the forums or whatever.

Apr 19th 2010 at 2:02:09 AM •••

It replaced the image of Link and the Fairy, which illustrated the trope better. The anime pic (so it's not anime) is still Just A Face And A Caption. Batman and Catwoman, and their teased Fan-Preferred romance have existed for 70 years. The anime picture seems to be illustrating someone's kid brother who doesn't know when to but out.

When an example has existed for nearly a century, when it can be an Ur-Example or at least a Trope Codifier...isn't it better? Am I really off base in thinking that a pair of characters who have been around since the 40's are a better example than some western animation anime? Batman is a cultural icon. Avatar? Avatar is a cultural icon now too if we're talking about James Cameron's little blue people, and not whatever cartoon this is.

Do I qualify my argument by saying I'm a comic book fan above all else? Yes. And if I was arguing for an example listing, say, Grifter and Zealot, I'd admit I wasn't contributing anything and just being a myopic fan. But this is a cultural icon.

Apr 19th 2010 at 8:09:48 AM •••

"Batman and Catwoman, and their teased Fan-Preferred romance have existed for 70 years" It's still just a face and a caption.

Edited by Taelor
Apr 5th 2011 at 9:22:54 PM •••

"Avatar" I liked it better the first time I saw it when it was called "Pocahontas".

Mar 30th 2010 at 11:38:35 AM •••

"In Ocarina of Time, both Malon and Ruto would have made far better candidates for Link's affections (Ruto was even technically engaged to him), but even official backstory regarding what happened after the game puts Link with Zelda (and in charge of the castle guard. And gives him dialogue)."

The latter part (backstory...) would force me to say - Links (no pun intended) or it didn't happen!

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May 25th 2012 at 2:11:45 AM •••

There is no Canon couple to contrast with there, in msot Zelda Games a Link/Zelda parring as as much Fanon as anything else. Malon actually comes closest to being Canon due to the implication of Twilight Princess (If you assume this Link must be descended from his Predecessor, and Epona from his).

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