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Sep 29th 2015 at 2:21:54 PM •••

Re Up to Eleven: The usage here is correct. I have corrected the laconic for Up to Eleven so that it better reflects the intent of the trope.

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Sep 30th 2015 at 11:18:32 AM •••

Well, you've solved that problem.

Another one remains: Why do we have a "trope" page for something that is really only a phrase? "Up to eleven" is just a piece of slang, nothing more. That's material for a dictionary, not for us. The thousands of wicks to Up to Eleven are not referring to a trope. Seems to me Up to Eleven is an obvious candidate for the Permanent Red Link Club.

Sep 30th 2015 at 7:57:19 PM •••

Taking something to an exaggerated maximum is the trope. The Up to Eleven name for the trope is directly evocative. The fact that it is referred to everywhere by this name is a good thing. Not sure what the issue might be.

Oh, and this wiki's entire purpose is to create slang, or at least capitalize on existing slang.

Oct 1st 2015 at 10:58:05 AM •••

The issue is that "taking something to an exaggerated maximum" does not describe a "recognizable pattern in storytelling", a "shorthand for a concept that the audience will recognize" , or whatever other definition of Trope you like to use.

Is it the creator "turning up" some element within their work? Is it a character within the work "turning up" something?

The new description mentions a "previous maximum" that needs to be exceeded. How does that sit with the fact that in countless wicks, Up to Eleven simply stands in for "to the max", "extremely", "to a high degree", "very much"?

Many wicks are of the type "[Work] turns up [Trope] Up to Eleven". If Up to Eleven is for exaggerated tropes, then what is Exaggerated Trope for?

What's an exaggerated maximum, as opposed to a maximum?

Too many open questions for me. Not seeing a trope.

Oct 1st 2015 at 11:39:10 AM •••

Can't help you, man. If you can't see it, you can't see it. Others can.

Oct 2nd 2015 at 1:06:17 PM •••

It's either that or others seeing things that are not actually there.

Nov 21st 2011 at 4:15:15 PM •••

So, what's the difference between Dystopia and Crapsack World? The two seem to be very similar!

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Dec 6th 2011 at 9:44:41 PM •••

As I see it, both a horrible places to live for at least a part of the population.

Dystopia is a civilisation with one or a multitude of fatal flaws build into the system of society. From Powered by a Forsaken Child over Happiness Is Mandatory to official Klingon Promotion its a place with a twisted, twisted idea of how human beings should organize their living together (or a writer who likes the thought experiment).

Crapsack world is unpleasant for a variety of reasons from war to bad weather to zombie plague. It can and often does also include one or several varieties of Dystopia. Basically its reality itself that seems to reject human beings/and or happiness (or a writer who loves to torture their characters).

Edited by Gemmifer
May 17th 2012 at 10:05:52 AM •••

Crapsack World is just unpleasant. Dystopia is unpleasant because of an exaggerated sociological reason (usually through political ideologies or just whatever is in the news).

Oct 11th 2014 at 2:02:50 PM •••

Take for example Game of Thrones. It is a crapsack world, for the sake of entertainment. Therefore, it is Crapsack World. The Handmaid's Tale, while taking place in a setting that is similarly crappy as Westeros, is a Dystopia, because it is intended to be social commentary.

Apr 21st 2011 at 9:34:43 AM •••

It can be argued that we are already living in a Dystopia, so why no Real Life examples.

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Jan 13th 2013 at 3:38:13 PM •••

I very much doubt most people would argue that, and it's probably end up being a flamewar if anyone did. There are perhaps however many countries and regimes that would pretty much be classed as dystopias, especially a certain notable South-East Asian example.

Nevertheless "Dystopia" by itself isn't listed in the official "No Real Life Examples, Please!" list so maybe somebody could add some, but there are strong hints dystopias are supposed to be by definition fictional, as well as the potential for natter/flamewar which might result from someone adding a "Real Life" section, I'd advise against drawing the ire of the moderators.

Apr 6th 2013 at 6:25:50 PM •••

Dystopia is a Crapsack World for the purposes of social commentary. Real Life is not social commentary, so it cannot be a dystopia.

Camacan MOD
Mar 15th 2011 at 4:36:24 AM •••

This is probably not an example — the too-nice town the Simpsons move to is not a parody dystopia. If anything it would be a parody utopia.

  • Parodied in "You Only Move Twice" from The Simpsons, where the family moves to a new town, only to find that everything goes wrong.
    • There is really nothing wrong with the town. The town is nice, clean, and there is no oppression or anything, it's just a cleaner version of any small mountain town in America. The Simpsons just don't adapt to change very well. And the work environment is fine (you even get hammocks!)...Although working for a supervillian might cause some pesky moral issues when he starts trying to blow up France (nobody ever goes for Italy).

Aug 2nd 2010 at 4:12:28 PM •••

I don't know how to edit, and really ain't in the mood, but in the "Comic Book" examples page, there isn't V for Vendetta.

Sory for the bad english, not my native language

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