Main Development Hell Discussion

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SeptimusHeap MOD (Edited uphill both ways)

Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:56:03 AM •••

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Needs description rewrite or a split, started by Nezumi on Sep 9th 2011 at 3:25:22 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Jhonny Since: Jan, 2016

Feb 9th 2017 at 12:11:41 PM •••

Split off more sub-articles?

This article has become insanely long (especially with the content moved to it just now) should more sub-articles be split off?

Camacan MOD Since: Jan, 2001

Nov 12th 2011 at 6:41:30 PM •••

This text from the Comicbook section isn't a specific example. The example section isn't for general comments. Consider reworking it for the main text, if it fits in.

Does happen, in a cynical way, with specials that a publisher isn't sure about. Said special will be given (often limited) pre-promotion in a publisher's regular titles, but with an indeterminate release date. If this fails to bring in enough inquiries from readers and pre-orders from shops, the publisher won't do the print run, and eventually the whole thing will be written off and will sink without a trace.

Camacan MOD Since: Jan, 2001

Nov 12th 2011 at 6:40:08 PM •••

Examples need details in order to be listed. Please see How To Write An Example.

Artemis Fowl, with Jason Statham as Butler.
The Logans Run remake.
The Sliders movie.
A Nightmare On Elm Street prequel.
Get Smart 2, with a planned release of summer of 2010.
We3
Mutant Chronicles, Don't know what happened here...
The remake of THEM!
Deus Ex
Spy Hunter
Nightmare Creatures
The Farrelly Brothers' Three Stooges movie.
- The Warcraft movie.
The live action Robo Tech film
The film adaptation of Shi
The Witchblade movie.
Star Blazers

Nezumi Perky Goth Since: Jan, 2001

Perky Goth

Aug 16th 2010 at 8:52:32 AM •••

Since we're using this as a catch-all, it should probably be rewritten to cover more than just films. Either that, or we make a third "in development forever with no signs of actually being released" trope for everything else.

"That's ridiculous. What would a walrus do with a magic bag?" Pokeamida Hide / Show Replies

Darkmane Since: Dec, 2009

Aug 16th 2010 at 10:27:31 AM •••

It's already done in the page. What's the matter?

Tyler Durden is my bitch.

Nezumi Since: Jan, 2001

Sep 8th 2011 at 6:22:37 PM •••

It wasn't done when you said it, and it still isn't done over a year later. The trope description still explicitly and solely refers to films, and uses terms that only make sense when talking solely about films.

"That's ridiculous. What would a walrus do with a magic bag?" Pokeamida

Sol9000 GammaWALLE Since: Aug, 2011

GammaWALLE

Aug 25th 2011 at 8:01:24 PM •••

Lego Universe has this. I can't remember all the release dates so you'll have to find that on your own!

Don't do this for the actual example

Edited by Sol9000

Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001

May 17th 2010 at 7:12:02 AM •••

This page is getting pretty long. Suggestion: Start a new page (suggested title: Out Of Development Hell) for those works which finally became real, if only after decades, and make this page for works still in Development Hell.

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben Hide / Show Replies

SomeGuy Since: Jan, 2001

May 17th 2010 at 10:34:46 AM •••

I think Formerly In Development Hell would be better, since that could also cover games that were just plain cancelled.

In any event, your proposal has merit. We can either act immediately, or put this idea through YKTTW to look for more examples and name suggestions.

See you in the discussion pages.

Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001

May 31st 2010 at 7:04:26 AM •••

Sorry, forgot I had proposed this.

I think there are enough examples on this page. Now all we need is a title. Crowner?

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben

Frank75 Since: Jan, 2001

Jun 7th 2010 at 7:17:57 AM •••

I think Saved from Development Hell is probably the best name.

Fuhrmann, es kostet dir noch dein Leben

Nekumata Since: Apr, 2010

May 5th 2010 at 8:52:41 AM •••

Someone add the online game Ragnarok Online II. It started development around 2006. It's NOT done. No, they reshuffled it. Definately Development Hell. (even the other wiki says so :P ) No, it's not vaporware. It's still going. (Hell, it's Gravity. They can lose as much money as they want)

JekWindu2 Since: Jan, 2010

Mar 6th 2010 at 3:01:07 PM •••

Where is the video game section for this?

Hide / Show Replies

WascallyWabbit Since: Jan, 2001

Mar 6th 2010 at 3:03:43 PM •••

Videogames have their own page, Vapor Ware.

WascallyWabbit Since: Jan, 2001

Mar 6th 2010 at 3:03:43 PM •••

Videogames have their own page, Vapor Ware.

WascallyWabbit Since: Jan, 2001

Mar 6th 2010 at 3:28:07 PM •••

Dumping cross-examples from Vapor Ware here. Don't have time to fit them into the main page tonight.

Anime and Manga

Comic Books

Literature

Stephanie Meyer put off writing Midnight Sun because an unfinished copy was leaked.
A Dance With Dragons has been in the queue in the A Song of Ice And Fire series in one form or another for nearly a decade. It's been over five years since George R. R. Martin actually started writing it and it's still nowhere near finished.
- as of January 2010 Amazon.com has it listed to be shipped in September of 2010. Ironically, it said the same thing last year. And the year before that.
They did get someone to finish the late lamented Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time series.
Another book example is the Harlan Ellison-edited anthology The Last Dangerous Visions. It was originally announced for 1973 and has not yet appeared as of 2008; Ellison still claims he's eventually going to release it.
- There's even a (short) book about this fiasco, The Book on the Edge of Forever, by author Christopher Priest (most famous for The Prestige.) When you consider that TLDV was slated to include stories by long-dead authors such as Frank Herbert, Alfred Bester, and Cordwainer Smith (who died in 1966!!), this is the very pinnacle of development hell.
  - Cordwainer Smith's story, "Himself in Anachron" was published in a collection, The Rediscovery of Man: The Complete Short Science Fiction of Cordwainer Smith. Ellison was not happy, but eventually some sort of settlement was made.
Diane Duane has been somewhat notorious among her fans for this. There was a eight year gap between the release of A Wizard Abroad and The Wizards Dilemma, a five year gap between Wizards at War and A Wizard of Mars, which should be released this year after getting pushed back by its publishers about six times (this April, for real this time!). Finally, there is the Middle Kingdoms series which has lain unfinished for nearly eighteen years now, with the last part, The Door into Starlight having gone unfinished since 1992, but she promises she is still working on it.
David Gerrold's fans have been waiting for the fifth War Against The Chtorr novel (A Method For Madness) since at least 1994.
- Currently scheduled for 2011. And there's two more books after it.
The Scarlet Gospels by Clive Barker

Music

This phenomenon isn't only limited to software and video games: the Guns N Roses album Chinese Democracy absolutely qualifies. It's now finally been released) after 14 years in development, prompting the long-standing joke that China itself would become democratic before Chinese Democracy was released.
- Perhaps inevitably, a song from Chinese Democracy was released in 2008...on Rock Band 2, about two months before the album itself was released.
If we're going to start bringing up vaporware albums, hip hop's got a few of 'em: Dr. Dre's Detox and Ghostface & MF DOOM's Swift & Changeable still haven't seen the light of day after all being announced a few years ago. (That's not even counting the countless records that got shelved by an uncaring or hostile label, like Large Professor's The LP, KMD's Black Bastards or Jay Dee/J Dilla's Pay Jay, all of which have since either leaked or been reissued six or so years after being recorded.)
- Dr. Dre has been promising Detox since at least 2000, and even provided desperate reoccurrences as far back as 2003, "Don't worry 'bout that Detox album, it's comin'!"
- Not to mention the Black Star follow-up album.
- One of the most inexplicable is probably Lil' Jon's Crunk Rock, which has been in production since 2006 ("Snap Ya Fingers" was a hit in early 2006, and has NEVER appeared on an album proper), and it's not like it's going to be particularly deep. Lil' Jon has never been any great artist, and every implication is that it's going to be dated and homogenized rock mixed with a rap style that is also now rapidly dated, and yet, Jon is still promising its release.
Wintersun's Time is steadily falling into this trope, as is Lykathea Aflame's/Lykathé's unnamed album (despite claims that it was at least 90% finished. News has also surfaced that drummer Tomás Corn has been forced to quit playing due to foot problems, leaving the album's fate up in the air).
The worst case ever is Smile, which was supposed to be a Beach Boys album. Band leader Brian Wilson re-recorded and released it 37 years later, in 2004. What truly makes this sad is the reason it never came out: Brian Wilson suffered a Creator Breakdown of epic proportions and allegedly deleted the original masters before sinking into a fog of mental illness for years.
Shortly after releasing Tommy, The Who began working on an epic followup to be entitled Lifehouse, which would have been accompanied by a film and a series of experimental concerts involving using the vital statistics of audience members to produce synthesizer tracks. The project fell apart and most of the songs were released on the Who's Next and Who Are You albums. Pete Townshend ultimately released Lifehouse in 2000 as a six-disc solo album and a radio play for the BBC, and the synthesizer concept found its way onto the web in 2007.
Flavor Flav's solo album, "Lifestyles Of The Rich And Flavor", had beed touted (mostly by Flav himself) since the mid-90s. It finally saw release (sort of) as "Flavor Flav" in 2006. Most rap fans are completely unaware of the album's existence.
Indie band Havalina announced their sixth album, Pacific in 2004. The recording got delayed because the bassist wanted to add the percussion of a library cart being hit, and it took months for him to arrange to record this (the library wouldn't let him borrow the cart). Then the bassist left, and Matt Wignall found a new bassist, renamed the band to Matt Death & The New Intellectuals, rerecorded two songs, and tweaked the track list of the album (renamed to Death on the Pacific). Matt Wignall has said that the album is finished, and that he plans to release it as a free download. That was back in 2008...
Slightly odd example as it didn't involve newly recorded material: Neil Young's Archives self-curated best-of compilation. First discussed in the late 1980s, and announced several times since. There were rumours that Young had convinced himself that actually releasing them would send him into a terminal writer's block. First massive installment finally came out in 2009.
Tapeworm... The super-band was headed by Trent Reznor as a side-project to NIN. Lineup was made of musicians from A Perfect Circle and others bands in the same "music genre"... Nothing resulted. Except a song that A Perfect Circle played live once and used in their last album (The song being "Passive"). More info here.

Tabletop Games

Gary Gygax had always wanted to release a version of his iconic "Castle Greyhawk," the location that pretty much launched Dungeons And Dragons while at TSR. Due to his busy schedule as the head of TSR, and his writing duties on a myriad of other modules, he never was able to complete or even start the module. (His being sent to Los Angeles to develop the D&D cartoon series didn't help either). In 1982, the module had been advertised in Dragon Magazine, but as of 1986, when Gygax left the company due to "Creative Differences," no module had been published. In '87, TSR did a wild and mostly unfunny parody version of the Castle that bore no resemblance to Gygax's design. It was seen by many gamers as little more than a parting shot against Gygax, and the module has been pretty solidly rejected by players and pretty much disowned by TSR and Wizards Of The Coast, leading to a second try at the module which was much more warmly received.
- Still, that wasn't Gygax's castle, one that wouldn't see print until 2008, when "Castle Zagyg" was published by Troll Lord Games.
d20 Spectaculars was a Super Hero add-on to d20 Modern that was supposed to be published by Wizards of the Coast in 2006, but it never materialized (possibly because Mutants And Masterminds already had rules for d20 supers and did it very well).
- And possibly because that's when they started work on 4th edition.
D&D 4th edition was supposed to be released alongside a series of software tools. The most notable was a "virtual game table" allowing people to play live D&D online, complete with 3D models of characters and monsters. But all that was postponed and the game came out without any of the promised tools. A Rules Compendium was later released, then a Character Builder (still in beta). A year later, and still no sign of the virtual game table.
- Probably because there's plenty of free software online that does the same thing
GURPS: Girl Genius may be headed in this direction, due to an edition change since the Foglios wrote most of the content.
- Also from GURPS, the third edition had a Middle Ages I (which dealt with England) and there was supposed to have been a Middle Ages II (for the continent) which never materialized.
Capcom World Tournament was delayed for a while, then put on hiatus, due to issues with Living Room Games being unable to guarantee a profit through traditional distribution and being unable to risk alienating retailers with distribution methods that would be more likely to turn a profit, like electronic-only format or Publish On Demand. It's still not officially "canceled", despite their decision allowing the license to lapse and their not being able to release it now if they wanted to. This particular bit of vaporware essentially killed the company, too.

WascallyWabbit Since: Jan, 2001

Mar 6th 2010 at 3:28:07 PM •••

Dumping cross-examples from Vapor Ware here. Don't have time to fit them into the main page tonight.

Anime and Manga

Comic Books

Literature

Stephanie Meyer put off writing Midnight Sun because an unfinished copy was leaked.
A Dance With Dragons has been in the queue in the A Song of Ice And Fire series in one form or another for nearly a decade. It's been over five years since George R. R. Martin actually started writing it and it's still nowhere near finished.
- as of January 2010 Amazon.com has it listed to be shipped in September of 2010. Ironically, it said the same thing last year. And the year before that.
They did get someone to finish the late lamented Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time series.
Another book example is the Harlan Ellison-edited anthology The Last Dangerous Visions. It was originally announced for 1973 and has not yet appeared as of 2008; Ellison still claims he's eventually going to release it.
- There's even a (short) book about this fiasco, The Book on the Edge of Forever, by author Christopher Priest (most famous for The Prestige.) When you consider that TLDV was slated to include stories by long-dead authors such as Frank Herbert, Alfred Bester, and Cordwainer Smith (who died in 1966!!), this is the very pinnacle of development hell.
  - Cordwainer Smith's story, "Himself in Anachron" was published in a collection, The Rediscovery of Man: The Complete Short Science Fiction of Cordwainer Smith. Ellison was not happy, but eventually some sort of settlement was made.
Diane Duane has been somewhat notorious among her fans for this. There was a eight year gap between the release of A Wizard Abroad and The Wizards Dilemma, a five year gap between Wizards at War and A Wizard of Mars, which should be released this year after getting pushed back by its publishers about six times (this April, for real this time!). Finally, there is the Middle Kingdoms series which has lain unfinished for nearly eighteen years now, with the last part, The Door into Starlight having gone unfinished since 1992, but she promises she is still working on it.
David Gerrold's fans have been waiting for the fifth War Against The Chtorr novel (A Method For Madness) since at least 1994.
- Currently scheduled for 2011. And there's two more books after it.
The Scarlet Gospels by Clive Barker

Music

This phenomenon isn't only limited to software and video games: the Guns N Roses album Chinese Democracy absolutely qualifies. It's now finally been released) after 14 years in development, prompting the long-standing joke that China itself would become democratic before Chinese Democracy was released.
- Perhaps inevitably, a song from Chinese Democracy was released in 2008...on Rock Band 2, about two months before the album itself was released.
If we're going to start bringing up vaporware albums, hip hop's got a few of 'em: Dr. Dre's Detox and Ghostface & MF DOOM's Swift & Changeable still haven't seen the light of day after all being announced a few years ago. (That's not even counting the countless records that got shelved by an uncaring or hostile label, like Large Professor's The LP, KMD's Black Bastards or Jay Dee/J Dilla's Pay Jay, all of which have since either leaked or been reissued six or so years after being recorded.)
- Dr. Dre has been promising Detox since at least 2000, and even provided desperate reoccurrences as far back as 2003, "Don't worry 'bout that Detox album, it's comin'!"
- Not to mention the Black Star follow-up album.
- One of the most inexplicable is probably Lil' Jon's Crunk Rock, which has been in production since 2006 ("Snap Ya Fingers" was a hit in early 2006, and has NEVER appeared on an album proper), and it's not like it's going to be particularly deep. Lil' Jon has never been any great artist, and every implication is that it's going to be dated and homogenized rock mixed with a rap style that is also now rapidly dated, and yet, Jon is still promising its release.
Wintersun's Time is steadily falling into this trope, as is Lykathea Aflame's/Lykathé's unnamed album (despite claims that it was at least 90% finished. News has also surfaced that drummer Tomás Corn has been forced to quit playing due to foot problems, leaving the album's fate up in the air).
The worst case ever is Smile, which was supposed to be a Beach Boys album. Band leader Brian Wilson re-recorded and released it 37 years later, in 2004. What truly makes this sad is the reason it never came out: Brian Wilson suffered a Creator Breakdown of epic proportions and allegedly deleted the original masters before sinking into a fog of mental illness for years.
Shortly after releasing Tommy, The Who began working on an epic followup to be entitled Lifehouse, which would have been accompanied by a film and a series of experimental concerts involving using the vital statistics of audience members to produce synthesizer tracks. The project fell apart and most of the songs were released on the Who's Next and Who Are You albums. Pete Townshend ultimately released Lifehouse in 2000 as a six-disc solo album and a radio play for the BBC, and the synthesizer concept found its way onto the web in 2007.
Flavor Flav's solo album, "Lifestyles Of The Rich And Flavor", had beed touted (mostly by Flav himself) since the mid-90s. It finally saw release (sort of) as "Flavor Flav" in 2006. Most rap fans are completely unaware of the album's existence.
Indie band Havalina announced their sixth album, Pacific in 2004. The recording got delayed because the bassist wanted to add the percussion of a library cart being hit, and it took months for him to arrange to record this (the library wouldn't let him borrow the cart). Then the bassist left, and Matt Wignall found a new bassist, renamed the band to Matt Death & The New Intellectuals, rerecorded two songs, and tweaked the track list of the album (renamed to Death on the Pacific). Matt Wignall has said that the album is finished, and that he plans to release it as a free download. That was back in 2008...
Slightly odd example as it didn't involve newly recorded material: Neil Young's Archives self-curated best-of compilation. First discussed in the late 1980s, and announced several times since. There were rumours that Young had convinced himself that actually releasing them would send him into a terminal writer's block. First massive installment finally came out in 2009.
Tapeworm... The super-band was headed by Trent Reznor as a side-project to NIN. Lineup was made of musicians from A Perfect Circle and others bands in the same "music genre"... Nothing resulted. Except a song that A Perfect Circle played live once and used in their last album (The song being "Passive"). More info here.

Tabletop Games

Gary Gygax had always wanted to release a version of his iconic "Castle Greyhawk," the location that pretty much launched Dungeons And Dragons while at TSR. Due to his busy schedule as the head of TSR, and his writing duties on a myriad of other modules, he never was able to complete or even start the module. (His being sent to Los Angeles to develop the D&D cartoon series didn't help either). In 1982, the module had been advertised in Dragon Magazine, but as of 1986, when Gygax left the company due to "Creative Differences," no module had been published. In '87, TSR did a wild and mostly unfunny parody version of the Castle that bore no resemblance to Gygax's design. It was seen by many gamers as little more than a parting shot against Gygax, and the module has been pretty solidly rejected by players and pretty much disowned by TSR and Wizards Of The Coast, leading to a second try at the module which was much more warmly received.
- Still, that wasn't Gygax's castle, one that wouldn't see print until 2008, when "Castle Zagyg" was published by Troll Lord Games.
d20 Spectaculars was a Super Hero add-on to d20 Modern that was supposed to be published by Wizards of the Coast in 2006, but it never materialized (possibly because Mutants And Masterminds already had rules for d20 supers and did it very well).
- And possibly because that's when they started work on 4th edition.
D&D 4th edition was supposed to be released alongside a series of software tools. The most notable was a "virtual game table" allowing people to play live D&D online, complete with 3D models of characters and monsters. But all that was postponed and the game came out without any of the promised tools. A Rules Compendium was later released, then a Character Builder (still in beta). A year later, and still no sign of the virtual game table.
- Probably because there's plenty of free software online that does the same thing
GURPS: Girl Genius may be headed in this direction, due to an edition change since the Foglios wrote most of the content.
- Also from GURPS, the third edition had a Middle Ages I (which dealt with England) and there was supposed to have been a Middle Ages II (for the continent) which never materialized.
Capcom World Tournament was delayed for a while, then put on hiatus, due to issues with Living Room Games being unable to guarantee a profit through traditional distribution and being unable to risk alienating retailers with distribution methods that would be more likely to turn a profit, like electronic-only format or Publish On Demand. It's still not officially "canceled", despite their decision allowing the license to lapse and their not being able to release it now if they wanted to. This particular bit of vaporware essentially killed the company, too.

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