Discussion Main / DarkMessiah

I would like to propose Kain from the Legacy of Kain series as the page image, as:

• He is a Villain Protagonist, qualifying him for the "dark" part of this trope.
• He is an actual Messianic Archetype; he The Chosen One who is destined to save the world as part of a Heroic Sacrifice.
• He becomes a god-like/messiah-like figure for the vampiric empire he creates and grows from Soul Reaver onwards, meaning that he's considered this in-series as well.

The picture I've proposed is from the end of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, but it's hardly a spoiler, as Kain's climactic choice to save or damn Nosgoth is the driving force of the sequels. It represents this trope well, as it shows the decision Kain needs to make as part of being The Chosen One, yet illustrates his conundrum that only a Dark Messiah would have; to actually debate between saving or damning Nosgoth, whereas a more straightforward savior figure would sacrifice themselves without a second thought.

https://imgur.com/a/FyC4f8E

Edited by TimeLordVictorious "Shout, shout, let it all out These are the things I can do without, come on I'm talking to you, come on!" -Tears For Fears

In my recent discussions over this page on Edelgard, it seems the definitions for Dark Messiah need to be defined better. Like clearly having a messiah like cult following, and having a messiah like bent around them. Kane and Anakin fit the criteria better and certain other tropers have noted the constant use may have merely adds unnecessary flexibility to trope definitions

Like if this trope applies to well intentioned villains who see themselves as the only one capable of fixing the world and some Pet the dog moments without a messiah like status or fanatical followers who revere them as a god then Knight Templar and Dark Messiah become interchangeable.

Kane of the Brotherhood is a good example of a Dark Messiah, cult like following, presents himself as a messiah like figure, while Dr. Breen is a mere sellout who is just a pawn of the Combine and there are no church of Breen or fanatical followers to him. In the same example of Fire Emblem, Walhart is a good example of a Rudolf who is a Dark Messiah given how many of his troops revere him as a god amongst men, particularly that lady who was the boss of the fort chapter.

Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult. Hide / Show Replies

I think Stalin would fit better as a this page's poster boy than Lenin, since Lenin didn't live to rule for as long as Stalin did and, while some of his actions may range from highly questionable to undoubtedly condemnable, he's nowhere near the level of Stalin's infamy. And while some communism supporters nowadays would still defend him or, at least, argue that there've been capitalist leaders who did much worse without receiving the same treatment, very few would lift a finger in Stalin's defense. I don't know, I'm just trying to reach a more common ground here, so that none gets upset.

The wrestling examples are currently limited to the Cult Leader types.

Cult leaders claim to be Dark Messiahs, but The Undertaker truly is one when you look at his career, how many storyline revolve around hm being "Killed" and rising again, and now all the Hype around The Streak making him effectively the biggest star of Wrestling's biggest event.

And also Sting in 97.

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I'm not actually familiar with Joseph Balsamo as depicted by Alexandre Dumas, but it sounds to me like he might qualify. But before I'd take the step to add him I'd like the opinion of someone is familiar.

I also feel the A Song of Fire and Ice example should be corrected. What Melisandre believes makes Stannis The Messiah and herself his Prophet (Or False Prophet depending on your POV).

Edited by 216.99.32.44

Why on Earth was Kane's picture removed?

With reference to the Puella Magi Madoka Magica example: whilst I agree with witch!Madoka as an example, I disagree with Homura, who's a Well-Intentioned Extremist but not a Messianic Archetype, as it's just really Madoka she wants to save; the rest of the world, at best, comes second. Removing, just thought I'd leave a note to justify it.

Edited by Osric

This trope probably shouldn't say that Dark Messiah of Might and Magic is not an example in the descriptive text, and have it as the first video game example.

I don't actually know which is right...