Discussion Literature / CodexAlera

Welcome to the club. Believe it or not, though, he ain't even the worst.

If you want to make a new trope, take it to YKTTW.

Kord isn't the most evil villain in the series Kalarus has to take the cake on that one; Invidia's up there too, though she's more selfish than sadistic but he is probably the most hatable, I feel, if only because of how utterly, monstrously petty he is. At least Kalarus had the sheer guts of his plan going for him. At least Kord gets what's coming to him at the end of Calderon.

THOSE ARE NOT, FOR THE LAST TIME, MINOR PLOTLINES! Political manipulation, fear-mongering and Tavi's legitimacy have been, from the onset, major plots and motivations for characters. Knwoing that politicians like...the guy whose name I can't remember, who was explicitly mentioned in the epilogue as a potential threat to Tavi politically, both in terms of undermining the Alliance and presenting opposition to the New Academy, potentially destroying them in their infancy, which would have far-reaching effects, not the least of which would be a lack of preparation for when the Vord return. ALL of these get an explicit mention of being future problems that Tavi will have to deal with, as you are so fond of saying.

If you truly believe that politics is not as important as the war in these books, you've been misunderstanding everything about it.

The only example I chose that I'm almost willing to concede, ALMOST, is the one about Crassus. It certainly does seem minor, comparatively, but it could end up being that he rallies support in favor of those who would bring down Tavi...or he could bring together an Alliance of his own in a Big Damn Heros moment pulling Tavi's ass from the fire. Hell's bells, he could even set up his own Empire, with or without Tavi's blessing. All we know is that Tavi will have to deal with his, for lack of a better word, betrayal of Crassus at some point.

I will remove that one from future edits, but everything else is entirely valid as a Sequel Hook.

I think we're talking at cross-purposes here (Which is, perhaps, my own fault for poorly explaining my point).

Senator Valerius (He's the guy you couldn't remember) will almost certainly be a political rival of Tavi's for years to come, probably for the rest of his life; he might very well bring down the alliance and cast all of Alera into oblivion when the Vord Queens arrive. However, there's no indication that he's planning a rebellion like Kalarus, no indication that he's looking to place himself on the First Lords throne like Aquitaine, no actual plotline except generic obstruction and a "business as usual" attitude toward government. He's a douche, but he's a douche without a story. The series doesn't end with "And watch out for Valerius, because he's coming for you" it ends with "Valerius is continuing to be an ass like he's done for several chapters now, and we'll probably never be rid of him or people like him, but that's just the way things are." He's like Pluvus Pentius (From Fury of Calderon); a problem, yes, potentially a big one, but not the point of the story or the plot itself.

Crassus could also make a lot of trouble for Tavi, but there's nothing to even remotely suggest he will do any such thing. He's personally pissed at him, but there wasn't even a hint that he was speaking out against him politically or was looking to form his own empire. His plot ended with "Tavi, our friendship is over," not "You betrayed me and I'm going to make you pay."

"A Sequel Hook is something in a work that suggests that there is a clear possibility for another story;" except Valerius and Crassus are only the vaguest, most generic possible plotlines, assuming they even conflict with Tavi at all. Much like Senator Arnos they'd be the backup plot, the sidestory, as Tavi deals with the real threat of the Vord Queen (The conflict with Arnos might have been climax of Captains Fury, but it was only a means to an end of dealing with the Canim. He wasn't the plot, he was practically the MacGuffin). They certainly could be big, climactic battles if that's how Jim Butcher develops it (Valerius as the political manipulator, Crassus as the noble figurehead and combatant, working together to bring Tavi down), but that's not what the series ends with. The series ends with "Valerius is a tool, and I'm sorry me and Crassus aren't friends anymore, but I've got make it all come together because of the Vord, that's the question of the future."

I'm not saying they're not important, I'm saying that the series does not foreshadow their presence as being integral to the future plot.

Without more discussion or commentary I'm going to remove the entry, this has been untended for days.

I don't believe so. Hilarious in Hindsight is not a trope, and the Chekhov bits usually require the first part to be integral to the second part later on; just mentioning something as a possibility to see it happen later really doesn't count.

Might best count as simple Foreshadowing.

This is the page for discussing changes to this page, a discussion about rape politics as they refer to this series should be taken to the forums.

k. thanks. I'd move it myself but my cut and paste feature is busted at the moment. otherwise i would

That said, the writer of that review is clearly an idiot. "Harry never grows up and the characters are like the Holodeck: they only exist when someone is running the program. It’s sad that there are some interesting characters that show up pretty early." This completely ignores the massive character development he's had, and that most all of the side characters clearly develop outside of the viewpoint (for a start, Billy and Georgia, who grow up, fall in love, get married, and have a child off screen, Molly growing up, Murphy's career and development, etc.)

Then, the reviewer goes on to not bother to learn any of the characters' names, and completely and utterly misunderstands the very plot they're railing against, and, apparently, what "rape apology" actually is.

In short, yeah, I wouldn't listen to what the idiot has to say in the first place.

Someone's being stupid on the internet?! Say it ain't so!

I suppose I should more direct my statement toward Darthyan to ask him to stop posting things from random crackpots who can't be bothered to actually pay attention to the story. I'm all for valid discussion, but this and a previous post by him on The Dresden Files' discussion page both basically amount to, "Some crackpot with little to no sense of reading comprehension says Jim Butcher is racist/misogynist."

It's only giving attention to people who don't know what the heck they're talking about.

Edit: After reading more into the Dresden thing, perhaps I spoke too rashly, as that seems to be a legitimate grievance. I stand by my statement on this, however.

Well, if you pay attention to the naming conventions, remember that Antillar Maximus is illegitimate, while his brother Antillus Crassus isn't, so while it was never outright stated, the groundwork was there. As for Navaris's personal issues, Tavi was mostly guessing, but he was smart and lucky enough that he was right. So no, I wouldn't consider it an Ass Pull.

You'd have to pay close attention and put several seemingly unrelated points points together to realize that "-us" means legitimate and "-ar" means illegitimate before it was revealed, so the groundwork was mostly concealed. But, as you said, it was there, so I won't stick this on there, even if it did seem to come out of the blue for me. Thanks for the reply.

Also, there were hints that Navaris' name was all that was really important to her. When Isana is confronting her, she notes that Navaris' name is the only thing she has, and Tavi is listening to this and notes Navaris' reaction. Its a subtle thing, but Butcher was hinting at it.

They are a Restraining Bolt, depending on who you're asking. Odiana, for example, is absolutely horrified by how they work, and she says that wearing one results in you constantly screaming mentally to get it removed. See the quotes page on Mind Rape.

I'd say they count, because if the collars themselves weren't manipulating the victim's emotions they'd definitely want 'em off. The Mind Rape aspect just makes 'em extra Nightmare Fuel laden