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Oct 20th 2018 at 11:38:35 AM •••

There\'s not really much point in making individual pages for individual Touhou games because they just make a bunch of stub articles, let alone how the indexing for the character pages got fucked up.

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Oct 20th 2018 at 1:12:50 PM •••

I wanted to make individual pages for individual Touhou games because this page is slowly but surely getting a bit long. It doesn\'t show the too long warning, but it would use some fixing in the length departament. I intended to make short articles (that would still meet the three trope quota, the bare minimum for a work page) and expand them eventually, but maybe you\'re right, I would make them bigger next time, with a line related to plot in the description, extra indexes and higher quality images.

Also, I tried renaming the character pages because they\'re not consistent with WMG pages. WMG.Perfect Cherry Blossom and Characters.Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom, for example, should have the same base title to improve page navigation. Either it should be Characters.Perfect Cherry Blossom and WMG.Perfect Cherry Blossom, or Characters.Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom and WMG.Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom, not a mix of the two. I\'m not really sure what\'s TVT\'s policy on individual work pages that only use a subtitle as the page title, but we have stuff like Crisis Core and Channel Chaers which only use a subtitle. I\'d say the character pages, video game pages and WMG pages should have a consistent standard with no \"Touhou\" in the beginning since that\'s what and Wikipedia calls them. By the way, calls the sixth game Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, while Wikipedia calls it The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, so there\'s some title conflict. Maybe it should be called The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil since Wikipedia is more popular, but please tell me what you think.

Edited by Piterpicher
Oct 20th 2018 at 4:32:34 PM •••

There\'s really not much to the games, trope-wise, especially since the characters were split off long ago. Most of the main page\'s growth is down to new pages being created that apply to the setting as a whole

Oct 20th 2018 at 5:53:05 PM •••

Agreed that the series doesn\'t have a lot of tropes that are specific to individual games. Except character tropes, but those are handled already.

If length is an issue, it would make more sense to take the \"Tropes in the games\' gameplay\" block of Franchise/Touhou and split it off into VideoGame.TouhouShootEmUps and VideoGame.TouhouFightingGames.

Oct 20th 2018 at 8:08:28 PM •••

I\'d just do like what we normally do for cases like this, which is turn the original page into an index and make new pages out of the alphabetical trope folders.

Oct 20th 2018 at 10:23:07 PM •••

Yes, I do agree that the games are very similar to each other and don\'t have many tropes that are exclusive to only one. but then again, Mega Man (Classic) games for example are also almost often the same, not counting the story, levels or slight gameplay tweaks (at least for the first six games), yet tropers managed to squeeze out at least twenty-something tropes for each installment. I am sure that with enough thinking, each Touhou game could have more tropes than just three. For example, CTRL+F\'ing or CMD+F\'ing \"Subterranean Animism\" on this page gives at least 17 results. If we remove two that are related to the index, there are possibly 15 examples. Likely less, but that certainly counts for something.

Second, I don\'t really want to make a page split to something like Touhou.Gameplay Tropes or Touhou.Non Gameplay Tropes A To M because that would introduce a new namespace. Ever since the Namespace Configuration Project started, I don\'t want to make unnecessary new namespaces. Now, removing tropes from the franchise page to move them to singular games could save space in a way that doesn\'t introduce a new namespace. I do not believe making a new namespace is needed when we could still live without it. Perhaps we could move to VideoGame.Touhou PC 98 Games, VideoGame.Touhou Windows Games and VideoGame.Touhou Fighting Games if a singular game page is seriously impossible, but I\'ll still try to think about how to make singular pages. I plan on making a sandbox page that would show what pages for singular games may look like.

By the way, the issue of Characters pages and WMG pages being called inconsistently is still present and unadressed. It should either be Characters.Perfect Cherry Blossom and WMG.Perfect Cherry Blossom or Characters.Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom and WMG.Touhou Perfect Cherry Blossom, probably the first one since most wiki don\'t include the \"Touhou\" part, but I seriously would be grateful for some opinions on how to fix this.

Oct 21st 2018 at 2:42:29 AM •••

Sandbox.Touhou Singular Games has been created. Currently it\'s a work in progress. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Oct 21st 2018 at 2:51:53 AM •••

Oh, and is it Embodiment of Scarlet Devil or The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil? uses the former, Wikipedia uses the latter. I seriously want to know which to use. Probably the latter since Wikipedia\'s more popular, but I\'d be very grateful if I got an answer.

Oct 21st 2018 at 5:24:52 AM •••

Seems like cut requests to remove the pages got rejected. I suppose that moderators don\'t see these as stubs since they had three tropes, a description, indexes and all that? Well, I suppose I could make them bigger with the info I found that\'s on the sandbox page.

Oct 21st 2018 at 5:33:44 AM •••

Ah, Mountain Of Faith was the only one cut. I assume it\'s because one of the examples was admittedly a ZCE. It was from the main Franchise page, though. Still, it does seem that these work pages are not really stubs in the purest definition. I may remake that page later if I find a third example with context. And I still would like help with the Characters/WMG page inconsistencies and whether it\'s EoSD or TEoSD.

Sorry for the multiple posts, but there\'s no way to edit discussion posts after the update.

Oct 21st 2018 at 10:07:41 AM •••

It\'s not \"Embodiment of Scarlet Devil\" or \"The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil\" - it\'s \"Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil\" [sic]. How To Create A Works Page says \"Note that we require usage of the official name of the work, not Fan Nicknames\" and \"if the work doesn\'t have an officially-translated English title, you can use the non-English title for the main page and make the English translation into a redirect instead\". The manga/literature pages already use the full titles, with the subtitles as redirects.

Wikipedia policy is different - they use the \"most commonly used\" name as the title of the page, but its official name in the page text. E.g. their page titled \"The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil\" still refers to it as Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, but their page titled \"The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past\" keeps the same name (rather than Zelda no Densetsu: Kamigami no Triforce or a translation thereof).

Touhou titles often cause confusion because the second part being in English makes it look like a translation of the Japanese part (which is rarely the case).

Oct 21st 2018 at 10:24:00 AM •••

You\'re trying to say that we should use the complete Japanese title, and that should also include the Japanese \"Touhou [Japanese word]\" part? If so, we may need to rename the characters pages, the WMG pages and the work pages. Maybe it really is the best way, since those games don\'t have official English names to follow with policy. It would be consistent with the manga and literature names, at least. So the pages will be located at:

If Rmctagg 09 agrees, we may move it that way. Though we\'re gonna need to move Characters and WMG pages to those titles, too.

Oct 21st 2018 at 10:47:47 AM •••

Alright, Sandbox.Touhou Singular Games ( was updated to match full titles. Rmctagg 09, please tell me whether you\'re okay with how the pages look like now or if they should still be expanded (I\'ve also added more description, more examples, more indexes, higher quality images).

Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:07:31 AM •••

Sent a message to him yesterday, no response, even though I saw him edit today. I guess I\'ll add paragraphs related to gameplay in the description too to make the pages a bit better, and then rename the pages to full names later.

Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:18:57 AM •••

I still feel like making pages for individual Touhou games still runs into length issues (And I\'m still mulling over how I feel about the Windows singular games idea), but I don\'t have any issues with changing the character and WMG pages to match the full titles and change the old titles into redirects (Since most people aren\'t going to type the whole thing out.)

Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:14:57 AM •••

Alright then, I\'m gonna move Characters pages, WMG pages and work pages to full names. I\'ll try to do as much as I can today.

Oct 23rd 2018 at 12:27:44 PM •••

Moved WMG pages and work pages to full titles. Will move Characters pages when I have the time.

Oct 27th 2018 at 8:49:01 AM •••

Moved Characters pages to full titles. I may think about making pages for PC-98 games or Windows spinoffs.

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