Discussion Film / RogueOne

I wonder if he even knew they had the plans at that moment. He came in after the power was off, not when they downloaded the plans. For all he knew, those were just some rebels to take out. The escape of the Tantive IV may have been their first clue that there was still a copy of the plans in rebel hands.

See, even if he didn't know those were the plans, a rebel waving a card, screaming "take it" and then passing it on at the cost of his life would have alerted him that it carries vital information.

Yes, though that didn't happen until he was nearly at the guy, so until that point, he was just cutting up some rebel scum. He likely wouldn't have taken his time as he did if he knew otherwise.

There is a pretty small time window of let's say 2 seconds in which Vader could have realized what happening at the door and start using his powers to prevent the passing on of the data card. Hence one could make a case for Forgot About His Powers. I don't care one way or the other.

Again, that's assuming he knew what they were doing. So far, that guy at the door was just screaming for help, and only offered the card at the last second. We don't know when exactly Vader knew the rebels had a copy. Could be as late as examining the computer on the ship, while in pursuit of Leia's.

Yes, Vader isn't omniscient. He was just dealing with Rebel Red Shirts and trying to stop anybody from escaping with the other ship. He had no clue that the sole copy was so close to him at the moment. It's possible he could have guessed it in that small window of time, but highly unlikely. The makes the Forgot About His Powers example extremely arguable, and since Examples Are Not Arguable by default, the example has no place on the page.

I remain unconvinced. Vader is a Genius Bruiser who is granted Hyper-Awareness by the Force. I think he'd have at least felt something is wrong with the rebels making a last stand, but since we have nothing more to go on, it's still arguable.

Genius doesn't mean omniscient. All he knew going in was that the rebels had raided the place and beamed some info up. Nothing indicated he knew that the info was copied from that specific console.

The action goes from the Scarif stellar system to the Tatooine stellar system, so it certainly can't be minutes. Even with hyperpropulsion, it is commonly accepted that it takes a few hours to jump from a system to another, with variables including their distance and the presence of hyperspace hazards to avoid.

It's also probable that the Tantive IV jumped to a few other systems in the hope of losing the Imperials before going to Tatooine, so yes, days are entirely possible.

Has Word of God been silent on this issue?

That seems odd in a franchise that is obsessed with giving every bit character pages of backstory (even in Disney canon, non-entities like Tagge get their standalone story arc in non-film material)

Aaaaaand yet again someone says it's less than one hour. Is there Word of God on that, now?

Yes, actually - From a Certain Point of View (a short story anthology celebrating the franchise's anniversary) opens with a story detailing the time between the two movies from Captain Antilles' perspective. From the events therein, it really can't have been more than an hour or two.

I guess the Star Wars character pages have grown out of control, since the franchise is so big. Maybe a clean-up would be in order, but that would be a huge project.

It's likely gonna be one of those long term projects due to the sheer amount of content.

Whole-Plot Reference is not just about some similarities, and it is by definition quite voluntary from the scenarists. So, unless their is some Word of God about it, it's very likely the example is shoehorned.

The plot of the movie is a fairly generic war movie plot. It has lots of similarities to Guns of Navarone, Dirty Dozen and a whole bunch of Russian war movies.

And now, trying to sneak it back through Recycled In Space? Seriously, cut it out.

I've moved it to YMMV so that it isn't removed outright, but I smell Fan Myopia here.

I agree with the points above. There is also the fact that the project was a secret (Vader precisely chides Krennic for too much information leaking), and that certainly hindered the amount of funds and ressources Palpatine could divert toward it, especially while the Imperial Senate still existed, which would further lengthen the construction.

In contrast, the Second Death Star had none of those funding hindrances and benefited from the experience of building the prototype that was the First, removing these many roadblocks and explaining why it took much less time despite being bigger.

Besides, Continuity Snarl is for much bigger problems within a work with several different continuities. This doesn't apply here; it would be at worst a Series Continuity Error in the case it actually stood against scrutiny.

A Continuity Snarl is when there are layers upon layers of contradictions. You want Series Continuity Error for singular minor mistakes.

It's not much of a continuity error either, from how you've described it (Not going to be able to see until later this weekend, so no spoilers if I'm wrong). The opening crawl in ANH specifically states that the ship has just escaped from "[the brave rebellion's] first victory against the evil Galactic Empire," and Antilles' dialogue, at least to me, gave the impression of them lying to the Empire about being on a diplomatic mission.

Why, exactly, is the question; if they didn't realize Vader knew for a fact they were at the battle, it's possible they thought he'd buy it. If they did, then Antilles could have been stalling him so that Leia could sneak the plans away. In either case, Leia keeping up the fib afterwards was just her sticking to their story for as long as she could to buy herself and the rebellion time.

So how should we address this little lapse in continuity, then? I can't think of any other trope to apply, should we just drop it altogether?

It's not a lapse. They were lying about the diplomatic mission and the ship wasn't the only one of its type in the galaxy so they were just pretending some other CR 90 was at Scariff

Technically, Capt Antilles and Leia could be correct. They were on a mission to Alderaan (transporting the Death Star plans), and it could (from a Certain Point of View) be said to be of a "diplomatic" nature, since Leia is the Alderaanian senator and is carrying material that would normally be transported in a so-called diplomatic pouch, intending to deliver it to the ruling family of Alderaan (her father). It's very much a paper-thin disguise that relies heavily on exact wording, but it could have been enough to really tangle up the Imperial Senate with hearings and debates if it were brought to inquiry. Their story hinges on the phrase "diplomatic mission" which in this case means "mission or task of a diplomatic nature" rather than the formal "Diplomatic Mission" i.e. operating in an ambassadorial role or as an embassy.

Unfortunately for Leia and her crew, even if Vader had bought their story, they had no way of knowing that the Emperor had just disbanded the Senate.

I think it's a continuity error but one can handwave it in-universe. Perhaps the Tantive had eluded Vader for a day or two before he caught them at Tatooine. In that case, they could try to bluff that they're a completely different ship, and were on a diplomatic mission—which, as Cush 1 says, might be enough to snarl things while the Senate was consulted.

Unfortunately for them, Vader no longer gave a damn about such things, and the Senate was about to be disbanded (very likely precipitated by this crisis).

Not an error at all. They are en route to Tatooine - remember Bail Organa said he'd trust the messenger with his life and they're bluffing about their diplomatic mission. Badly. To a Jedi (I'm an old man, I use the old words).

Yeah, not every word uttered has to be technically true.

She was lying. Vader is pissed because it's such a blatant lie.

It's like the Kessel Run nonsense...

Nothing in the movie supports that it's a Po W camp. It's simply labeled as a "Labor Camp" in the planet subtitle. If you deleted the trope before I'd support that.

There is no real set threshold for this. It's more or less "when the page gets big enough", which is entirely subjective.

I would personally use the rule of thumb "when every letter take several full screens to scroll down", but again this varies with each visitor's computer display, so hey...

Well, the Religion Tropes index is rather long, but there's no mere Fictional Religion supertrope.

Illegal Religion can eventually covers it.

Also, the black dude doesn't die first. Jyn's mother and Cassian's informant both die before Saw. Saw also isn't really that major a character IMO.

Okay, there's now one troper suspended for edit warring about this, and the example is commented out with a warning on the page.

My position, as with any example that lead to arguments, is to keep it commented out as safety.

I can go either way on whether the trope should apply or not. I wasn't the first person to add it, but I was the one who commented that Saw was the first character to die among the top billed actors of the film. Jyn's mother and Cassian's informant are hardly major characters, and Forest Whitaker getting special mention in the credits confirms that Saw is.

That sounds more like Dead Star Walking to me.

Huh, I didn't know that trope existed. Well, like I said, I really don't care whether it stays on the page or not.

I don't see why it should be there either.

It's indeed misleading for anyone not having seen the movie, especially since all other Star Wars movies have the genuine article.

Agreed. The fake opening crawl should be cut. What's the source for it, anyway?

It is an extract from the actual crawl of A New Hope, taking the few lines that are relevant to this movie.

Which is, I guess, very confusing for readers who haven't watched Rogue One yet.

Not to mention, it's not even in Rogue One itself.

I'm not the one who added it in the first place, but I think it's a very powerful intro to the film (and thus the article). It was the intro to the Rogue One panel at Star Wars celebration, I believe.

However, if I'm outvoted, I'm not going to fight about it. Does anyone have any suggested quotes to replace it?

Some of the most quotable lines:

What will you do when they catch you? What will you do if they break you? If you continue to fight, what will you become? — Saw Guerrera

We have hope. Rebellions are built on hope! — Jyn Erso

I'm one with the Force, and the Force is with me. — Chirrut Îmwe

I think "We have hope. Rebellions are built on hope!" is definitely the best choice in terms of lines from the movie itself. If we end up using the title crawl from A New Hope, at least add "From the title crawl of A New Hope" to the caption.

The crawl excerpt can be put as part of the Adaptation Expansion example.

Without going into too much speculation, I think too the movie strongly implies Chirrut has some Force sensitivity. Saying otherwise is misleading, and borderline untrue. The should be made clearer about the ambiguity.

Or at least, a folder separating the trailer-exclusive tropes. (We've done it on Zootopia, notably.)

That would make sense. The very first trope listed references a line that wasn't used in the movie.

The page for General Syndulla and the ship in the Rebel fleet have been confirmed online/in interviews as references to Rebels.

The conversation about the Jedi is about Obi Wan: it's he who has been hiding. (But it is she who Senator Organa trusts, because that's a response to Mon Mothma saying he'll need someone reliable to carry the message and he's talking about Leia.)

Nah it's not really an adaptation, that same logic could be used to say the Prequels are an adaptation of "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force."

In that case, is there a trope for when a Noodle Incident gets explained?

I think Prequel is enough

Or Interquel, since it technically comes between Episode III and Episode IV (or between Rebels and Episode IV if you want to get really nitpicky) in the franchise's internal chronology.

And since it's going to focus on the Rebel troops who actually carried out the raid and not any of the main characters of the OT (since 3/4 of them were busy being nondescript farmboys or smugglers at the time), perhaps also Lower-Deck Episode