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Apparently I missed an edit war somewhere, but why did the Red Death - which was pretty well sourced, even from Word of God - get changed to the Green Death? Was there a Word of God revision I missed somewhere along the line?
(I myself prefer to call it the Green Death in honor of the book, but Word of God is Word of God).
What's with all the averted tropes? Some of them might be notable, but stuff like Dumb Blonde? So Astrid is blonde but not a Dumb Blonde, how is that significant in terms of storytelling? Same seems to go for Never Say "Die" and Female Success is Family.
I haven't touched them because this is a pretty busy article and I don't want to start an edit war, but is there any reason for them to stay?
If the trope was expected on principle, then foregone, its Averted. Some people look at the wrong accents and expect a trope when all else says not to. Dumb blonde? Okay, so Astrid tossed her hair in front of an explosion. It displays rightful confidence in her own competence. I guess they thought she was an airhead tempting fate to burn her overly groomed hair.
First impression, even when proven wrong, tend to stick.
Okay, so Never Say "Die" is because it's a family movie, and I'll even give that for Female Success is Family, but Astrid shows none of the hallmarks of a dumb blonde except blonde hair, and that's really not significant in any way, because she isn't one. I'm just going to take it out because it seems like an exercise in pointlessness. It's not even averted or played with or anything because she was never set up to be one, and aside from her hair (which in and of itself is not really a trope) shows none of the visual cues that accompany one...and dumb blondes aren't so ubiquitous that any exception is worth mentioning, anyway.
I'd agree with you on this one.
Green or Red
The final boss is given no name, but the book calls it Green death. Furthermore, the sound track calls it green death, and its green! But Word of God calls it Red death. What is Tv Tropes to do?
Use Word of God.
I agree. The DVD Commentary has Chris and Dean calling it the "Red Death".
Didn't the toys also call it Green Death? I'd say make note of both names somewhere and pick one to use everywhere else.
The toys that I saw referred to it as "R.D." The soundtrack is the only place I've seen it called the Green Death. Since "Red Death" is used more often, it's probably what they want us to use.
The song Battling the Green Death reuses several themes used before. And these reflect parallels in the story. For example the theme used when Hiccup cuts Toothless loose (The Downed Dragon it's the part with the bagpipes) is reused when Stoic dives down to rescue Toothless.
How many tropes can we squeeze out of this?
What do y'all think of the idea of splitting the article out to separate the Boneknapper Dragon tropes from the main movie tropes?
It's just a short. Hardly seems necessary. Now when the promised sequel happens we may want to do it.
To be honest, I actually created my own split for this short film before coming to this discussion page to see Arch Teryx's post. I realize that tropes from Secrets of the Furious Five were worked into the Kung Fu Panda page (because Dream Works doesn't have a "Pixar Shorts" type page for themselves), but I thought we could do things differently here.
A soft split is fine. We do that on a lot of pages.
DVD/Blu-Ray Coming Fri, Oct 15! Weee.
That's so far away! *cries*
... Well, it's too far for me.
So why was the article locked to edits?
Because the owner of the site doesn't believe that we, the tropers, can keep recent film articles free of natter.
Looking at the clean-up he did before locking it, he does kinda have a point.
I'm guessing that would be Fast Eddie. Had no idea that he actually owned the site.
Locking an article to editing just because it's about a recent film is kind of a self-defeating move, unless he wants to write the entire thing himself. I'm guessing it's more that Ht TYD is NOT really a recent movie any more, so he wanted to freeze the main article.
Locking edits goes against the very policy TV Tropes was established for!
Then learn to leave your opinions off the damn pages! If the kids can't play nice in the sandbox, the sandbox gets taken away. Or would you rather edit bans be handed out to every single person who inserts Natter?
It's not because it is a recent movie. It's because it was overrun with Natter and Justifying edits.
I think "overrun" is seriously overstating the case.
Seriously. All I can see in the history are minor errors like...natter and justifying edits. Oh well, at least there's a reason, unlike half the pages he locks.
I think the page should by now be opened up to see whether the bad edits start rolling in again. If they don't, we can consider the situation cured by the "temporary" lock.
Page is unlocked. I think it's been long enough. Let's see what happens.
What's with the comments requesting the spaces be left around the quotes?
Four months later and they're still there, and still no reason why. Anyone?
I have no idea, but last time I went against one of those comments I was banned instantly.
Edit: That is, of course, assuming that they all were added by the same person.
The person is called Fast Eddie. He's the owner of the site. Crossing him is perilous. Anyway, the quote spacing thing is to improve the appearance of the article. He wanted to do it universally at one point but it caused some issues. It's probably way back on the wishlist, but since he does watch this article, why not direct a PM to him about it?
"Ride Toothless, Ride Astrid." Where did this come from? I've looked around and not seen it anywhere. Is someone trying to force this into being a meme by putting it on TV Tropes?
I thought it originated from some boards? But even if it hasn't, I think it'd be okay to keep it there since it is a meme at some LJ comms now.
It came from some image boards. It's not mentioned as much since hype for the movie has gone down.
Umm, is the Green Death really an Eldritch Abomination? I'd just call it a giant, but clever dragon.
No, I don't think so. that supposes a aura of hyper-dimensionality that the Red Death just doesn't exude. The Red Death is very solidly in this world.
That said since the closest thing to it in their mythology would be the Midgard Serpent. I was actually surprised that no one raised a call of Ragnarok as they were running away from it. Stoick certainly looked like he thought he had broken the world when that thing bulled its way out of the mountain.
In any case, going up against what looks like Jormungand's Earth twin is Epic Bad Ass. The myths about Hiccup and Toothless that would grow out of that battle would be legendary.
Well, originally I wrote that entry from the dragons' perspective rather then the human perspective. The Green Death was something unnatural to them. But yeah, it was still a leap, so I let the entry go.
Astrid seems to be getting a raw deal out there. How can they not see that it is she herself that is driving the story. Hiccup wants to kill a dragon so he can get enough status to impress is dad and get a date, specifically with Astrid. If you missed the significance of the whole outwalk the fireball scene in a Gaussian blur, you were watching the wrong thing. Heck, even the music changed and the look on Hiccups face, classic.
Astrid obviously doesn't have time to deal with someone as useless as Hiccup. She is driven and focused. She sees the conflict with the dragons as a war to fight and win. The only reason she didn't just go grab a shield in the first training scene, looks like she is trying to figure out Gobber's teaching style. She obviously has been doing her own training for dragon training.
She gets frustrated and jealous of Hiccup as he completely changes the rules of dragon training out from under her. It's like she is playing baseball but he is flying around catching fly balls with a jet pack.
Later when she follows Hiccup as he is trying to get away is fabulous. She is beating him up trying to get him to tell her what is going on and just a second after bopping him in the groin with the butt of her ax, she is trying to save him from the dragon. But Hiccup ends up saving her.
In Astrid's first flight I think Toothless isn't trying to kill her so much as establishing dominance. She's hanging on the Hiccup with a death grip and wrapping both legs around him. When she apologizes he lets up and gives her an amazing present, the ride of her life.
Given their circumstances and culture showing her affection to Hiccup, the night before he goes into the Kill Ring makes sense. They obviously suffer casualties often so there is no time for extended courtships. She is the first into the ring when things go sour.
She now knows that Hiccup is a great, if unconventional, warrior. If she can just get him going again. She also rallies the other trainees, I doubt that they would have rallied to Hiccup without her. Hiccups plan was obvious, free the Monstrous Nightmare and go get Toothless. The team changed things drastically for the better.
After Hiccup goes to get Toothless out of the cage she takes over battle management, encouraging Snotlout (he'll be dreaming about that for a long time), and harassing the Red Death. She almost gets inhaled but Hiccup/Toothless get the big save.
Her reactions when Stoic finds Toothless really hit home that she's in love. That last kiss says two things: To Hiccup,"Don't you ever leave me again." And to the other girls,"He's mine!"
Because of her Hiccup gets everything he wanted and more.
True, but none of that matters to shippers. And even if they aren't shipping Hiccup with someone else, it's easier to write her off as a stereotypical Love Interest rather than watch the character and notice her development. They don't want to see where she excelled as an Action Girl; they focus on where they feel she failed and cry "Faux Action Girl! Ruffnut/Camicazi/Tuffnut would've made a better Love Interest!"
The irony is that some people are focusing so much on the way it invokes Give Geeks a Chance that they're actually reducing her to "Just a Love Interest" rather than seeing Astrid for who she is beyond that. Tropes Are Not Bad...
Nothing can stop a determined shipper, but thats okay, for them. I call what I see.
Wait, there were viewers who didn't see things as Balun Stormhands described?
She is a mirror for the internal conflicts of Hiccup. The fact that he has no chance with her in the beginning represents his distance from the tribe. Her anger at him reflects the tension he feels of him leading a double life. And the fact that she is the first to accept Toothless reflects how all the vikings can change too.
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