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May 15th 2019 at 5:18:47 AM •••

A while ago, someone removed Voodoo Shark, stating that it was \"probably overthinking\" the movie\'s ending. I sent a PM to them to try and argue a case, but there has been no response. Thus, I\'m bringing the issue for discussion.

For clarification, Voodoo Shark is a trope (strangely not yet YMMV) that occurs when an explanation given for a plot element (either in the story itself or by the creators) creates more questions than answers. As such, I argue that eethe ending of Endgame fits the criteria.

  • Voodoo Shark: According to the Russo Brothers, when Steve went back in time to live in the 1940s, he created a new timeline where he and Peggy were together and finding Bucky before he is Mind Raped into becoming the Winter Soldier is a priority. However, this is inconsistent with the movie itself, where an aged Steve shows up moments after disappearing in time. If he created a new timeline when he stayed, then the method by which he reappeared in this one is left unexplained.

Edited by NubianSatyress Hide/Show Replies
May 15th 2019 at 5:55:50 AM •••

I agree that this should probably be a YMMV trope, given its interpretation-centered nature. Could we address that root cause and then return here, perhaps?

May 15th 2019 at 6:18:09 AM •••

So, this isn\'t Voodoo Shark since the split timelines thing isn\'t a plot hole. It\'s entirely consistent with how time travel has been shown to work in the movie. The only potential plot hole is \"how did Steve get to the bench?\"

For it to qualify as Voodoo Shark, you need one Plot Hole that gets an explanation which creates another Plot Hole. Which we don\'t have since there\'s just the one hole. Which can probably go into Rule Of Cool as they clearly put having a that Wham Shot ahead of explaining it, knowing that any explanation (\"Steve actually came back 15 minutes ago and just sat on the bench until they noticed him,\" \"Steve worked with Tony to allow his time-GPS to bring him to the bench\") would ruin the moment.

May 15th 2019 at 6:44:05 AM •••

I agree with Larkmarn.

Edited by Asherinka
May 15th 2019 at 7:18:57 AM •••

Sorry, I left something out by accident.

The bench shot is the initial Plot Hole, because the rules of time travel Endgame established are broken the moment he shows up.

The second Plot Hole is: \"If Steve created a new timeline, then what happened to the other Cap stuck in ice?\"

May 15th 2019 at 8:41:33 AM •••

Then that\'s not a plot hole. It\'s an unexplored element, but it doesn\'t actually contradict anything. It\'s more like Fanfic Fuel, really. And again, you can\'t say that the Russo\'s explanation is after the fact since the multiple timelines is exactly how time travel is done in the movie. The first plot hole isn\'t really given an explanation at all.

May 15th 2019 at 8:56:09 AM •••

That\'s a good point.

Alright, you\'ve convinced me that it doesn\'t fit.

May 7th 2019 at 11:20:07 AM •••

Dragon Quest Z recently added a Describe Topic Here to the main pages for both this and Infinity War. I really don\'t think they\'re appropriate to the tone of the rest of the page. Thoughts?

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May 7th 2019 at 3:24:02 PM •••

I already removed the one on Infinity War on the ground that it was simply sneaking a second quote there, which is against the standard covering page quotes..

I think that falls under the same problem here. And you\'re right, that don\'t really fit the tone of the pages.

May 4th 2019 at 10:44:52 PM •••

These are ZCEs and PSOC, and I think they should be deleted.

  • The Forties: The final shot of the film is of Steve returning to his decade and finally having his dance (in the tune of \"It\'s Been a long, long time\") with Peggy.
  • Big Applesauce: While discussing the targets for the time heist, Black Widow is astonished to realize that three Infinity Stones were all in New York at the same time at one specific moment. This leads to travelling back in time to Battle of New York in 2012.

Setting tropes are not just \"this happens to take place in [year]/[location]\". That\'s meaningless on its own. There should be time/place markers indicating what makes these fit each setting trope. On the other hand, there are enough elements when Steve and Tony go to 1970 for The Seventies to remain on the page.

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May 5th 2019 at 2:06:58 AM •••

Or at least, commented out until they\'re reworded beyond the ZCE threshold.

May 5th 2019 at 10:36:53 AM •••

Right. I said \"delete\" because I can\'t imagine either having context, 1940s because we see it for 20 seconds in an intimate setting and New York because we\'re revisiting a story we\'ve already seen and the characters and events are more important than the setting itself.

May 1st 2019 at 2:04:32 AM •••

There\'s an entry under Take That about how Thanos being from 2014 is somehow a reference to everything (what specifically?) \"going to shit after 2013\". I removed it since there seems to be no direct reference to anything, and its connection to anything resembling a jab at something is tenuous at best, but it was re-added with no explanation. I will comment it out for now, but I don\'t think that it should be there.

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May 1st 2019 at 2:11:30 AM •••

I don\'t think either; I don\'t even know what it\'s refering too, but I doubt it\'s a voluntary reference anyway. If it is related to any kind of audience reaction, then it should be in YMMV.

Apr 30th 2019 at 3:43:08 PM •••

Avengers: Endgame provides examples of: or

AVENGERS... Assemble

????

Recommend we keep it consistent with the other films.

Edited by MasterSon Hide/Show Replies
May 1st 2019 at 1:12:46 AM •••

Yeah, I\'m not too fond either of using the example introductory line as a pretext for a quote. It\'s enough there\'s one on top, on the bottom, in the caption, etc.

Apr 30th 2019 at 12:21:43 AM •••

My previous edit regarding the alternate timeline(s) was reverted. Based on the discussion Banner and Ancient One had I was under the assumption that only the Infinity Stones can actually cause alternate timelines to form (demonstrated when Banner returns the illusory Time Stone to AO\'s demonstration and the timeline fork disappears entirely), but my edit was replaced with one suggesting everything they did in the past caused new timelines to be created. Could someone else weigh in on this? I\'m pretty sure I\'m right here.

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Apr 30th 2019 at 6:50:51 AM •••

I happen to agree with the other editor. I too got the impression that any change to the past causes a new timeline to form (or rather causes the alternate timeline to diverge from the prime one), and the Ancient One was simply using the stones as a particularly significant example of a change that could be made.

May 2nd 2019 at 12:46:58 AM •••

Then why specify that the stones are collectively what govern the flow of time? She specifically mentions that.

May 4th 2019 at 7:13:29 PM •••

For what itís worth, not even the movieís creators agree on this. According to the writers, only changes to the stones create new timelines, but according to the directors, any change creates a branch.

We simply may never be able to reconcile the two.

Apr 28th 2019 at 7:17:21 PM •••

At what point does 2014-Thanos say he\'ll destroy and recreate the universe and have people worship him?

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Apr 29th 2019 at 1:36:38 AM •••

He says that at the end during or before the battle at the destroyed Avengers compound.

Apr 29th 2019 at 11:17:36 AM •••

Including specifically the \"god\" part? Could\'ve sworn he only mentioned wiping out the universe so no one would remember the other half.

Apr 29th 2019 at 3:48:52 PM •••

Yeah true; he does sound sour that the universe isn\'t grateful for what he will do in the future, so you could interpret it as that he also wants to be \"worshipped\" as the universe\'s savior. But he really doesn\'t say it explicitly and he might as well be angry about the universe\'s lack of gratefulness for its own sake. But the Russos also said in the commentary that his main motivation was to \"prove\" that his solution for Titan would have been right. So it\'s really up for interpretation, I guess that part of the entry could be removed because it\'s quite ambiguous.

Apr 24th 2019 at 5:56:09 AM •••

Okay, I had a suspicion and fear this would happen. But I see it happen. Basically some fans are posting Endgame spoilers on YMMV pages for other Marvel movies as a way to get around the page lock and subvert the intended purpose behind it.

This poster (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=The12thDoctor) has done it twice already.

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Apr 24th 2019 at 6:30:38 AM •••

Endgame spoilers are being added to the MCU Iron Man character page too.

Edited by DarthRevansNeighbor
Apr 24th 2019 at 6:39:40 AM •••

It might be a good idea to unlock the Endgame pages, and get all these spoilers here, and put a warning on top that the movie was released in so-and-so countries and will reflect spoilers. And stop the additions in other pages.

I am trying to be Unsullied (some Game Of Thrones humor for you) and so far managed to do that by avoiding to scroll down too much but yeah, some random tropers will see such activity and get spoiled for what was supposed to be free of Endgame spoilers until after the US release.

Apr 24th 2019 at 8:48:08 PM •••

Looks like the page has been unlocked...I am seeing the movie in the next 24 hrs. Will be back after that to add stuff here. Fellas, It Has Been An Honor.

Apr 22nd 2019 at 7:33:58 PM •••

So how long is this page going to stay locked? With the premiere tomorrow, we\'ll know everything that happens via leaks, so when can we start adding entries? I imagine \"once the movie actually releases\" is a pretty good answer, but with Thursday night releases it\'s hard to determine when that actually is. Also, \"Shazam!\", \"Into The Spider-verse\" and \"Captain Marvel\" all had premiere-leaked plot details on their main pages basically within a day of them hitting the internet, so as long as spoiler-tagging is brutally enforced, it wouldn\'t be out of the norm.

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Apr 23rd 2019 at 1:19:30 AM •••

It is released on April 24 in most of Europe and in China, Australia and some other countries so it\'s safe to unlock the page tomorrow. Check this link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154796/releaseinfo

Edit: I wrote to the moderators. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=gsjp7dldjh2dwdelcha2hu17&page=827#comment-20654

Edited by Asherinka
Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:58:14 PM •••

I just watched it in Australia. I would say we should keep it locked for a week if we can, but then again everyone fails at what we should do. Maybe we should just be what we are :)

Edited by Jinkee
Apr 23rd 2019 at 9:09:55 PM •••

I bought my ticket to see it here in USA on Thursday. Lemme be selfish and say make it Friday, after I have seen it. Man, it sure was a good call to lock this.

Apr 16th 2019 at 7:53:13 AM •••

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jNvJU52LvU

New trailer came out and I think we got a better quote for the main page to this entry:

\"Before we\'re done, we got one promise to keep: if we can\'t protect the Earth you can be damn sure we\'ll Avenge it.\"

Tony Stark

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Apr 16th 2019 at 7:56:24 AM •••

IT\'s a franchise trailer. Not a trailer for the movie. Not sure if it\'s a line from the movie proper. Has a definite \"cut for the trailer\" feel to it.

Mar 17th 2019 at 7:45:31 PM •••

Anyone think it\'s time to lock the main page? I already see edit warring forming.

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Mar 15th 2019 at 6:41:18 PM •••

I hope you guys are giving heavy consideration to locking down all the pages for at least a week before the release of Avengers Endgame. Itís important everyone be allowed to go into the movie theater unspoiled.

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Mar 16th 2019 at 1:00:19 AM •••

Erm, if you want to go there unspoiled don\'t disable spoiler tags :)

Mar 16th 2019 at 8:01:12 AM •••

Well, moments pages are supposed to have no spoiler tags because they\'re mainly meant to be for people to go there after watching a movie. (see here: Administrivia / Spoilers Off ) I know it\'s hard, but the best way (and only way) to avoid spoilers is really to just go offline at least from tv tropes/reddit/social media etc. There could everywhere be spoilers for Endgame, even if all Endgame-pages would be locked, there will be spoilers on the trope pages. And it might even happen that those don\'t have spoiler tags because the person forgot them and you read it before someone else edits it. There\'s just always a rest risk and I know I won\'t wanna take that risk.

I mean I can understand it, but everyone will immediately want to go to and edit the moments pages after seeing the movie and I think they should be allowed to do that.

Edited by Hjortron18
Mar 14th 2019 at 5:06:25 PM •••

Is anyone gonna update the other pages? The second trailer\'s been out for a few hours now and these pages need updating

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Mar 14th 2019 at 6:11:11 PM •••

If you want to add something to the page, you need to write up the entry and put it up on the Locked Page Thread (it\'s on the Frequently Asked Questions sub-forum on the Forums page). Format the exactly like how you\'d like to see it on the page and make a request for the mods to put it in.

Dec 18th 2018 at 3:45:06 PM •••

Question: why is every single page currently locked?

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Dec 18th 2018 at 6:04:18 PM •••

The main page is not. YMMV pages were locked per discussion until the movie release. Check these links: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=70528&type=att https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=70603&type=att

Edited by Asherinka
Dec 18th 2018 at 6:06:36 PM •••

Most of the pages are locked to prevent pre-release speculation.

Feb 17th 2019 at 12:12:53 AM •••

I really think that the Character, Trivia, and Fridge pages need to be unlocked.

Feb 17th 2019 at 12:14:54 AM •••

You might need to ask to have them unlocked on the Locked Pages: Lock, UnLock and Edit requests forum (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=gsjp7dldjh2dwdelcha2hu17).

Edited by gjjones
Dec 9th 2018 at 4:30:13 PM •••

Would the disintegrating logo count as an Ascended Meme? I\'m kinda on the fence about this because disintegration was part of the previous movie, but then it became a meme, and now it\'s on the logo.

Edited by SingingRain Hide/Show Replies
Dec 9th 2018 at 4:32:19 PM •••

The end credits of Infinity War, with the title of the movie itself fading and so on did it, so it\'s part of the same thing. I mean it\'s not ascended if the movie created the meme themselves.

Dec 8th 2018 at 12:46:26 AM •••

Dear all. I understand that everyone has their theories. Could we kindly please keep those on the WMG page for now and list on the main page only tropes that are 100% certain to be in the film?

Edited by Asherinka Hide/Show Replies
Dec 7th 2018 at 9:38:19 AM •••

This is dumb, but is there an intact history of this page when it was Avengers 4 in an archive somewhere? I correctly predicted the title, and I\'d like to be able to prove it to others.

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Dec 7th 2018 at 11:14:38 AM •••

Congratulations, you are a prophet. As for the history for the old page, it is here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Film.Avengers4

Edited by Asherinka
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