Discussion FanficRecs / MuvLuv

While I do agree that allowing people to ban stuff they dislike would result in an edit war, I think the removal of Reversal is perfectly justified.

The fic not only turns most characters into racist jerks but also spares no effort in doing the same with the rest of the world.

Squad 207B not only hates Takeru but also goes to odd lenghts in this hate. Meiya treating him like scum after she barges into his room, then she along with Chizuru and Ayamine betraying Takeru during the CCSE, coercing Tama and Mikoto in that if they didn't obey and followed them, they were going to maim them. If this alone isn't treating the Japanese as xenophobic assholes, then I don't know what to say. Not to say anything of how OOC this is for the girls we know from the V Ns.

The explanation the girls gave him was basically 'we hate all foreigners, die gaijin Nippon BANZAI!', worse than WWII Japan.

I personally kept on reading, waiting for a valid explanation to this, but it never came. The author just handwaved the issue, nobody in-world reacted to it. As if it were normal for them that such a thing would happen.

Then, enter the Royal Guard. From their first scene where they outright murder civilians in cold blood, to how they carry themselves. The racism levels in the fic go well over 9000, making Japan look like a bunch of scumbags.

It's not always there, but the fic does remind you from time to time that the Japanese are racist jerks. I don't think this is something that 'should' be promoted.

Finally, there's the can of worms that is chapter 46. From the doctors kicking out wounded people because they were foreigners, to then make them enjoy torturing someone in the name of God, to have then an American willing to cause the deaths of thousands in the Korean front because 'it's not good for business' and then have the man justifying himself, even treating Americas as crazy bastards.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how anyone could reccomend this. Reversal is a story that discriminates all of it's cast, showing them to be nothing but assholes.

The V Ns had conflicting characters, but these ones have zero redeeming qualities. I don't think this should be reccomended, it's extremely toxic in how it handles it's story.

I do agree that no one should have veto power, but Reversal is too controvertial to put here. It doesn't pass a sensitivity check, and most stuff seems to be done for shock factor only.

If you disagree, please do give me an explanation of 'why' this should be here, you know, with all it has in it. I have no intentions or time to start a revert war. I understand the concern over giving any user the power to delete anything, and I hope that's the reason behind you P Ming me as well instead of having people defend the blatant racism and stuff.

Whatever, sorry for not making a discussion before editing, but since another user just edited stuff on the page without doing it, I did so too. Maybe you should revert the page to the format it had before, if you're so adamant about giving randoms the power to edit whatever they want?

If the problem is me deleting stuff, then yeah, it's my bad.

But just because stuff is signed doesn't mean we as a community should just let our pages be filled with whatever. Like the Wikipedia article that had more stuff from TE than the actual trilogy. Some stuff has to be edited, and in my opinion some things have no place in any fandom. Promoting a fic as dark as Reversal that has so, so much racism is bound to strike a bad nerve. One thing is Chomp and Twizzlers, another is discriminating people for no reason other than to be edgy and dark.

Still, I again apologize for not opening a discussion, didn't think that could start a 'revert war'. Will keep it in mind if I ever wanna add or fix anything in the future.

I was the one who added Undertow and Reversal to the page. I also re-ordered it to give ongoing works more attention so that the community can focus on them and provide support for those projects. My thought process was "Ongoing" before "Dormant" before "Dead". I also did not delete anything. You may have a different opinion on this organization but that can be discussed at a later date.

The way I see Reversal is an attempt to bring a Japan which was already on the brink of collapse in Alternative into the depths of insanity while creating a more complicated world for Takeru to navigate. The Japan from Alternative is already significantly Anti-American (As expressed by the numerous interactions between Japanese and American Surface Pilots during The Coup Arc). What Reversal did was bring that distrust directly to Squad 207B using altered backgrounds to instill distrust in them towards foreigners. Takeru's backstory was also altered to make him from Alaska - American soil. To say that the squad is discriminating against him for no reason would be to dismiss these changes which explain why.

Reversal also changes the ending to Total Eclipse, with Red Shift going off. Half of Alaska was destroyed by the Refugee Liberation Front, which are a religious terrorist group. That's not mentioning the Allegiance agents, who believe that BETA are servants of god within the RLF. Religious Fanaticism and violence is nothing new to the world of Muv-Luv. This matters because Alaska held Yukon Base, where Project Prominence was being completed. More specifically the XFJ project which was a joint Japanese-American effort to create a better TSF. All of that pretty much goes up in smoke when Red Shift is revealed and goes off, giving the Japanese further distrust of America.

Reversal went out of its way to alter the world of Alternative in such a way that Japan's behavior towards the outside world is entirely understood. That's why the flashbacks (especially later on in the story) become so frequent and important. It takes the dark elements of Alternative (which certainly are there) and brings them forward into the limelight. I believe it deserves its place on the page.

I still don't fully agree with all points. The strong nationalism was shown by Sagiri's men, zealots who rose in arms despite the BETA threat to kill all those who didn't think like them. Alt's world is dark, yeah, but the extremes are only shown by a few individuals.

Nobody acts as harshly as Sagiri, not even Meiya or Ayamine who would have the backstories to justify it. And Allegiance doesn't do anything as sick as what they did in Reversal. Nobody forced the author to go this way, there's no reason to plunge everything down the abyss.

I can get being wary, but people are just straight up unsympathetic assholes to Takeru all the damn time. I can see how bringing in the Master and it's cult could be interesting, but one thing is them being delusional like in TE and another is that scene in the hospital. Like, did you even read what they did? That's sick on so many levels.

I stopped reading after that chapter so I can't comment on the rest of these frequent flashbacks, but if they're like the rest, I doubt there's much of worth in them besides pointless gore and edginess, what with Takeru having killed civilians and children.

Anyways, I guess I agree with putting warnings, either in the comment or in a small warning list since there's many things that might push the wrong buttons in my opinion, just saying 'Dark Fic' wouldn't cover them all. I don't think it should be here, but different strokes for different folks. I can't see what compels you to reccomend it, but continuing arguing is pointless.

Let's agree to disagree. My bad for deleting stuff in the first place without opening a discussion. Bring it back if you want, I also have no wish to start an edit war.

Go ahead.

I should note that unlike Fan Fic Recommendations (where we are, obviously, recommending something), a work having a trope page is not an indicator of quality.

Which is why we have pages for The Turner Diaries and My Immortal.

Right, first thing's first...where to start? And I forget how to link pages using txt format...It's like, been five years since I learned that...and I think lost my computer course book...TT_TT

Try this: One Last Time Into The Loop.

Also, this page (and those linked from it) may prove useful.