The article is extremely heavily biased against ponies and conversions, up to explicit anti-pony propaganda. I think I can do something about it.
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The tone of the article accurately reflects the average tone of the majority of the fics in the Recursive Fanfiction spawned from the original. The only bias presented is the bias of the majority of the fics, where Anti-conversion stance is the majority opinion presented on the human side.
Edited by sailing101 Ye who would Tope Meaninglessness. Ye who ignore All We Have. I say to you You Shall Not Pass!!
Well, I can show examples of biased tropes that related to the main story.
'Reality Ensues' is a pretty damn silly trope to invoke in a universe where magic is a thing. One could just as easily say 'reality ensues' the other way, with magic-wielding ponies completely invalidating traditional human ballistics. 'Blow up everything' might work pretty damn well in human warfare but it's ridiculous to suggest things would work that simply with a completely different set of physics in play.
There are few tropes that I feel that should be move to general instead of being at the top but I like to ask that the tropes for the original should be the first tropes a person should see is about the original. Mainly should the first trope list should only be related with the original story and that story only? If so then here are the tropes that should be move to the General List and edit to fit the original story.
Remove:
- Assimilation Plot: Celestia's ponification crusade.
Edit:
- Emergency Transformation: This is the core idea behind the entire series. Either you die by the magical radiation of Equestria, or you become a pony.
- In addition, one of the perks of the ponification serum is that the process instantly and fully heals the recipient, even going so far as to remove diseases or genetic defects. Several stories feature humans on the verge of death taking the potion to save their lives.
Edit: * Scary Dogmatic Ponies: The ponies borrow elements from two of the four types.
- Ponies as Nazis: Only ponified humans are allowed inside Equestria, and the purification spell will kill all humans that do not get ponified.
- Ponies as Communists: Ponification expunges the negative, selfish parts of "human nature" and leaves you just as altruistic as all the other ponies.
I will make these edits in roughly 2 weeks from now unless something happened or someone tells me that the first tropes really do refer to both the original and other stories.
Harsher in Hindsight: In First Contact, the US Northeast, New York City in particular, is threatened by an incoming humongous hurricane. First Contact was published before Hurricane Sandy.
Please show me where this occurs in Blaze's story.
Bully in the Alley
Why isn't the original author (Blaze) listed anywhere on the page? I understand it's a shared universe, but the first sentence is about the original story.
"The only way to truly waste an idea is to shove it where it doesn't belong." Hide / Show Replies
He's mentioned in the first section of tropes, but I agree that he should probably be mentioned in the introduction. I'll add it.
Does the trope Not Evil, Just Misunderstood, fit some incarnations of Celestia?
In some cases, like Not Alone, Celestia thinks that she's trying to help Humanity but she doesn't have any dark motivations.
Edited by 128.239.164.117 Hide / Show Replies
I'd have to say so, for some cases, but of course not for all of them.
It's unlocked now.
And guys, if Alumnus or any of those guys come back, just report it.
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...it actually got unlocked?! *Checks newspaper* Yes, the weather report for Hell has indicated snow and cold weather.
And yes, plz just report shinagins going on. With this being unlocked, I'd hate to see it locked again.
Edited by 209.30.63.68
Anyways, another reminder, as much as y'all hate Chatoyance, the tropes page is not the place to showcase it.
Doubtful; chances are, if we did, we'd get yet another pro-Bureau person joining the wiki entirely to editbomb the page, forcing yet another editwar-until-we-lock-it-again.
Then ban the person doing the edit warring, don't just up and lock the article and go "lol we don't care" cause that's pretty much what they're doing.
Since it's locked maybe we can move this to Mirror Wiki?
Link here: http://tropes.wikia.com/wiki/The_Conversion_Bureau
do you wanna have a bad time?
What should we add into the Chatoyance entries now that she's been banned from Fimfiction.net due to using alternate accounts to upvote her stories? If you don't believe that, have the following link. http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/187023/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-fallen
And another topic that's permanently locked. Lame.
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You can blame Alumnus, mustachioedhero and vuvzilla for that.
They kept adding justifying edits to the page and deleting anything that made Chatoyance's stories look bad.
More of the cancer that has made this site what it currently is. A cesspit for fanboys that can't take opinions.
Given how idiotic the edit-warring is, I should have seen this coming. It makes me sick to the core.
It's a shame. I thought maybe it'd just be for a week or so until the edit war people were bored and moved on, but I guess not. Yeah, maybe the page was a little slanted, but it was becoming more balanced prior to the edit wars.
Edited by ZeniTheWonder
I wouldn't be adversed to things here getting locked to let the edit war cool down, but the problem is, things NEVER get unlocked. It's stupid if you ask me.
^EXACTLY. Locking it for a while until the Edit war calmed down is fine, but once something gets locked here, people rarely bother to unlock it.
It's a problem the site management has, along with renaming things that shouldn't be renamed. Hell, even the main Fi M page itself got locked due to the trolling and has yet to be unlocked. Kinda bad if you ask me.
Okay, is there a trope for this?
In The Other Side of the Spectrum, the group Ponies for Human Life (PHL) started out as a non-violent protest group, then moved into sabotage and then finally became a full-blown army.
Edited by DialgaX Hide / Show Replies
Not exactly since, He Who Fights Monsters is about someone on the good side becoming more and more like whoever they're fighting against.
What I'm talking about is the group getting more and more extreme after lesser tactics have failed.
The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized perhaps?
"The only way to truly waste an idea is to shove it where it doesn't belong."
Aaand, looks like we've got another apologist putting in justifications and justifying edits while referring to it as removing natter and "balance", who has, according to edit history, come to the wiki exclusively for the Conversion Bureau.
Anybody volunteering to look through and fix (possibly by just deleting the entries with justifying edits alltogether, which would admittedly leave a very short page)?
Edited by SchizoTechnician Hide / Show Replies
He deleted Body Horror.
Having read her fics, yes, underdosing on the potion leads to a gruesome death. And yes, the HLF, hate the pony form. And yes, the PER see the human body as such.
Ehh, you wanna bring up Mustachioed Hero's edits to "Ask the Tropers"?
Seriously, first vuvzilla, then Alumnus and now him. What is it with her "cultists"?
I've raised the issue of a possible lock there, since that's realistically the only option (also asking if there ARE other options I'm missing).
My feeling is at least they are trying to be somewhat rational, even though they are perhaps going too far. With the Mass Effect 3 ending apologist (yes, singular plural,) all he does is launch multiple sock accounts to vandalize and attack fans, I think seven is his daily record. With that said I think adding hidden text around each contested example as well as sending a PM about it to the apologists might be an idea.
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
- It's All About Me: Chatoyance is extremely self-centered about her works, her fanon and even the genre itself.
- In this blog post, Chatoyance officially gives permission for others to use her setting in their stories. However, she states that what she has written is what she considers a detailed umbrella codification of the Conversion Bureau universe.
It isn't the 'Chatoyance' version of the Conversion Bureau, not to me. It's just the Conversion Bureau Universe.
- Around the Bend purports to explain the differences between the first and second season of the show. Instead, Chatoyance uses the setting presented in her own stories as the original, genuine version of Equestria, and explains why the show differs from it.
- After Blaze was interviewed by the Pony Fiction Vault, Chatoyance interviewed herself for them, with an introductory header bemoaning her lack of celebrity status, and openly disparaging the intelligence of the fandom for their failure to give the Conversion Bureau genre as a whole proper recognition.
- The opening couple paragraphs of the interview practically worship her works as a world-building masterpiece, praising it much more thoroughly than most Pony Fiction Vault interviews praise the works of those they interview, while giving a Take That! to season 2 for not being good enough for the "Chatoyaverse."
- She has claimed that her works are closer to "Lauren Faust's original vision" than the show itself is.
To those that read my stories here on FimFiction, I want to make it clear that my Equestria is my best understanding of Lauren Faust's vision
- This blog post supposedly states what is and what is not a Conversion Bureau story. However, the way that it is written makes it seem like the only "true" Conversion Bureau are the ones that she likes. In addition, there is a Take That! towards people who write TCB War Fics or other such stories.
- In this blog post
Ehh, it's all true but let's keep it off the main page.
Edited by DialgaX
Chatoyance claims her TCB stories are about Transhumanism. Would this fit under:
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Hey, ya'll think Blackmesh Security is an expy of Blackwater?
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So I rewrote the lead section to better summarize the series.
I don't quite like the misanthropy paragraph, but I couldn't figure out how to mention TCB's bad reputation without being quite that biased. Maybe someone could improve that, though.
Thoughts?
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It seems neutral to me- it mentions that not all stories have that tone. Maybe mention some of the arguments against it being misanthropy, or reword it to mention that it has been accused of being misanthropic by some rather than saying it has that reputation? Or maybe that's worse?
The problem is that the arguments against its misanthropy are...biased to say the least, especially given that they come from Chatoyance and Midnightshadow.
I'll see what I can do.
Definitely. To be honest, I think it's fine now, though- it addresses that some have tried to write their stories to at least try to avert it.
In Tales of Los Pegasus, the potion is stated to set the drinker's sexual orientation to pansexual.
It's already mentioned in the YMMV page under Unfortunate Implications.
What trope would the potion fit under?
Cure Your Gays Het Is Ew Bury Your Gays
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I'd say Cure Your Gays and/or Het Is Ew. At least from the author's perspective, they aren't being denied a "happy" ending, or dying for being gay, for that matter.
I really want to say this about Chatoyance but I know it contravenes Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement... even if from my encounters with her and from reports by other people, these appear to be true.
- Small Name, Big Ego: She's one of the most popular and well known Conversion Bureau authors. However, she has a a grossly overinflated sense of self-importance. See the section It's All About Me for details.
- Narcissist: Interviewing yourself and heaping praise on your own work is pretty damn narcissistic.
I agree with both of those, but it is definitely toeing the line between talking about the work and the author personally. Then again, there is the It's All About Me part of the page.
Can anyone point me to where the request leading to the recent changes to the main and quotes pages was made?
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To answer my own question, there hasn't been one.
Alumnus' six-day-long editing history has been spent changing entries on the Conversion Bureau pages to be entirely positive – especially ones relating to JDR – and he's straight out replacing negative or critical entries on the quotations page with ones of lofty praise.
He's almost certainly somebody from FimFiction's Conversion Bureau group, seeing as he replaced Dalek Ix's quote with a post JDR made there only a few minutes earlier.
There's really no need to go alerting anyone. He might be a poster the Anti-Conversion Bureau group just banned after his revealing that he's spent the last week or so trying to stir up a fight and destabilize a "truce" they have with the TCB group concerning JDR.
I'll probably go through and revert things later, because it's a real chore to deal with large numbers of edits and I'm not feeling up to it at the moment.
I fixed up a bit but there's a lot that needs to be done.
Anyone want to help?
Like I said, I'll go through and revert the edits later, when I'm feeling up to it.
And Alumnus is back with more of the same. I note that he's now making minute grammatical changes to random other pages in order to pad out his edit history. I've reverted his changes to the YMMV and Quotes pages, and I'm going to start in on the main page now.
There is a difference between a balanced listing of tropes and a hate page. The topic of the Conversion Bureau is contentious, and unless the tone is made neutral and professional, rather than spiteful, there will be no end to trouble.
Secondly, the author 'Chatoyance' has specifically requested that her real name be left out of the tropes pages, as well as personal information, it is reasonable to accommodate this, unless the purpose of the page is indeed to be merely an attack.
I have put in a request to have the entry locked in any case.
Edited by Alumnus
While a neutral tone is certainly something to strive for, your edits tend to be more akin to fawning praise than anything else.
Jennifer Reitz makes no secret that she writes her Conversion Bureau stories under the Chatoyance alias. Her Fimfiction bio links to her personal web page, where she openly states her pen name, as well as her previous webcomics, as does her Deviant Art account. That she would demand to remain anonymous here – and only here – while openly displaying her identity everywhere else is completely nonsensical. I haven't been able to find where she has made any such request; you seem to be the only one privy to it.
The tactic you are using is both obvious and duplicitous. You're editing pages to present JDR's – and almost solely JDR's – stories in a positive light, and then leaving a "reason for editing" which implies that you are restoring a vandalized page in the hope that a moderator will lock the page with your edits in place.
I was wondering when this would inevitably happen.
Regardless of anything else he's right that Chatoyance's real name should not be used. It's very disrespectful and honestly, I feel a little silly for not having done that myself already. And while the tone of this page has always been rather openly hostile, I also agree that Alumnus went too far in the reversal, particularly with regard to the use of justifications - either a trope is legitimate or it isn't.
All right, everything's cleaned up.
The links are removed, Chatoyance's real name has been removed, intro has been redone, the hostility has been toned down somewhat.
Edited by DialgaX
X-ALL!
I like to read this trope page, since I don't follow ponies nor read any works, perhaps it's Bile Fascination, but I found something: Is Chatoyance this person?
Having seen the fandom (both pro and con) of TCB as well as having read some of the stories (pro and con, including the vile ones by JDR), I have this to say:
- Demonization: Occurs in-universe and out-of-universe.
- In-universe: The HLF are shown as bloodthirsty, xenophobic savages. The ponies, and especially the PER, are shown as utterly uncaring conquerors with zero empathy or respect for human life or free will.
- Out-of-universe: TCB fans and authors have been depicted as insane misanthropes who genuinely want the ponies to wipe out humanity. On the other side of the coin, those who don't like TCB are depicted as either Hate Dumb who don't like show or idealists who don't really understand human nature.
Corrections, comments?
Edited by DialgaX
There are a lot of things that I feel that are wrong with the tropes associated with the original story. Some of these tropes are more about the Conversion Bureau Universe in General rather than the original story. Before trying to make these changes myself, I feel that it's best to discuss which tropes belong in the original story and which ones belong in the general so there wouldn't be an edit war or Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement. Here's a few that I believed that belonged in the general or should have their explanation changed:
- (This should be changed or added while the current explanation should be moved to the General)Humans Are the Real Monsters: In the original, Celestia discuss one of the world leaders about why she wouldn't allow humans into the their world without being ponified, this is one of her reasons.
- (Not sure if this should be moved) Not Himself: This doesn't happen seem to happened, at least not the way I've read in the first part of the story. Despite Twilight's quote, the characters themselves still seemed to be themselves, everyone else actually go through classes so they can understand pony society more there's no brainwashing happening in there. It's more or less like learning about different cultures of other lands. In fact the main character and his friend are brought into Equestria without the teaching by the mane cast after being ponified to figure out the humans' reasoning for trying to get through the barrier without becoming one of them and how to deal with them. The real conflict in this story is that if humans can turn people into ponies then humans can find a way to get combat the barrier. The main characters and the mane cast must either prevent an all out war or get ready for it.
- (Should be changed or added and duplicated)The Sadistic Choice: The current explanation and the general conception of the expanding deadly magical barriar is probably due to people misinterpreting Twilight's phrase of "becoming a pony is crucial to expanding the peaceful, friendly aura that surrounds Equestria every day of every month of every year." I think the 'peaceful, friendly aura' she was talking was more about figuratively (it was actually more about the figurative atmosphere of Equestria) rather than literally. The real part of The Sadistic Choice is deciding to whether or not to stay in a dying world as a human or become a pony so you can live with both worlds. There's no danger of losing your personality since Everfree forest is still just as dangerous as ever. I'm sure that sounds like it has nothing to do with my point but it's just a little evidence to prove that there's no need for the ponies to alter someone's personality to be a more submissive if there are still monsters around. Look, the point is that The Sadistic Choice is more about losing your body and culture rather than losing your mind or die pointlessly as the world itself dies apparently.
- (Should be added) Scary Dogmatic Ponies: Just an addition, Celestia points out to the leader of the United States that she did trusted the humans once but the mixed reaction and backlash from doing so made her believed that all humans are evil and so does almost all of equestria. Meaning this could be a justification for why ponies hate humans or a discussed trope about why ponies believed that all Humans Are the Real Monsters. Although Celestia also tells the leader that the ponification is mostly for the humans who symphasized with the ponies but it's not like she enjoys doing all of this.
- (Not sure if this should be moved) MST: This trope really belongs in the general reaction because it is more about them than the original story. The moral issues are mostly discussed through the story. This is also the kind of trope that I feel it should be moved to the General section but shouldn't due to that could be the reason why people are hesitant to read the original.
- (Should be changed and duplicated)Les Collaborateurs: Actually (like I've been saying in this entire post) Celestia has a conversation with the leader of the United States, so it's more like they have little or some interest in stopping what the ponies are doing rather than none. The current description is more for the general stories.
- New Trope For The General Section= Advancing Wall of Doom: Basically this is what writers and JDR got from Twilight's quote about the "friendly" aura, and is making the barrier take over Earth while in the original it's actually stationary. I don't think Blaze would make Twilight joke about the only reason people came to be ponified is because they have "a gun pointed to their head." I'm pretty sure choosing to be ponified because of a deadly barrier to humans qualifies as a gun pointed to their head.
I added Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement tags mainly because I've seen conversations about these fics (and JDR) get really nasty.
Because this particular work tends to arouse strong emotions, especially with regards to the author JDR, please keep Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement in mind.
- Canon Defilement: How some of the fanbase feel about this 'verse. And we will say no more about this.
- Complaining About People Not Liking the Show: It occurs. Let's leave it at that.
- Fan Hater: These people exist. Let's leave it at that.
- The Scrappy: Deserved or not, The Conversion Bureau has a reputation as one of the most hated MLP:FiM fanfics around. No additional detail is needed.
- Mad Artist: This accusation has been leveled at JDR. No elaboration is necessary.
Alright, seriously guys. This is out of control. You may not like JDR, I'm not crazy about her myself, but let's try to keep the tropes focused on the works and not on the author?
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What can I say about the fic and its spinoffs being Canon Defilement?
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Even though I'd agree I think we made that one "no examples plz" you might be able to put it under the YMMV tab though.
Edited by shoboni
Okay, these tropes need expansion:
Original
- Cant Argue With Ponies (Can't Argue with Elves)
- Scary Dogmatic Ponies (Scary Dogmatic Aliens)
JDR
Edited by DialgaX
I thought I'd make this. Granted, the Humans Are Bastards setting upsets me, but giving how many fics this thing spawned, I figured it deserved an article.
Though the problem is, my articles are not that great, if someone could clean it up and add tropes, I'd appreciate it.
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Makes sense, if we have a page for FATAL, we can have one for this piece of trash.
I'm sure as hell not going to put time into it, though.
I'll have to check that FATAL thing, and I'm sure if more are added, others can work on the main title. that being asked, is that Recursive Fanfiction thing something that can be added into the trope section as well?
FATAL is unrelated, but...well...words really can't describe how terrible it is. Suffice to say, shitty works get trope pages too.
But now that we've got a tropes section, I suppose it's not too much trouble for me to toss in a couple more.
Not sure about the recursive fanfiction thing myself though.
Edited by DrKilljoy
Oh derp, it'd probably be good if I posted a link to where you could read the fic as well, I can't believe I forgot that. Also, thanks for the adds, the article doesn't look so bad with a few tropes in that section now.
Edited by DrWhooves
That said, the article looks far too negative at this point. Most of these tropes are just one audience reaction ("These ponies are bad!") repeated over and over again. Don't like the fic myself, but it does look pretty grating when the entire trope section looks like an YMMV subpage escapee. We need more objectivity, actual plot points etc.
Is this page just for the original story, or are we using it for its spinoffs as well? If we are, we should figure out how we want to split them up.
I think we could probably split the trope section up for the spinoffs, and if we do, I should add where you can find them as well.
Korodzik: You want more tropes, add more tropes. Mine may have been negative but they were the only ones I could really remember.
Dr Whooves: Agreed, that'll avoid confusion about which tropes apply where.
There we go, added the trope section for the spinoffs. Also, I'm now morbidly curious, I never seen one of these spinoffs where forced ponification happens, other then a couple of Ten Rounds universe fics. Anyone got a link or such?
Mainly cause I'm wondering if it's HLF members that this happens to since I know none of Chat's fics focuses on any ponified HLF members after the event happens, but of course, not like that matters in her universe since in her stories, all the ponies are pretty much one of those with the smilies painted on your souls trope applied.
Edited by DrWhooves
I read Last Man Standing, and it's actually a really damn good Deconstruction of the original. I've given it an appropriate tribute on the YMMV page.
Yeah, that's where I got the Driven to Suicide trope, from that one. Lol, that's the only trope I know of for the spinoff fics.
I've added a few representative quotes. Fantastic Racism courtesy of half the Elements of Harmony!
Thanks. Honestly, I can see Dash saying that, but Twilight and Pinkie? Hell no, and sadly, that Yellowstone comment was good, up until the end, then it got kinda ruined.
Yeah, this is the problem that most people (myself included) have with MOST of the Conversion Bureau.
why wouldn't Twilight? She's a fanatical researcher and a lot of people blame the bad things some people do, or the things that people ignore as being unable to change as human nature.
I'm looking at these tropes, and whatever the ponies opinions about the human race this seems like a massive attempt to paint the ponies black.
Genocide? Sounds more like an extinction event that the ponies are trying to insure some or everyone survives.
And there's plenty of sci-fi that involves humanity becoming something new. So it's an equine instead of energy
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The fact that the potion modifies the mind and that the ponified must abandon their country and culture makes it Genocide.
still a common sci-fi element few are condemned for.
plus genocide and culteral genocide are different things
Dalek Ahnd
Should we add a separate section for especially notable TCB fics, like Ten Minutes/Ten Rounds, Not Alone and The First year?
EX-TER-MINATE!! Hide / Show Replies
That was my intention in splitting JDR's works off from the rest, since different authors have different settings and angles on the core concept.
On FimFiction, there seem to be a substantial Hatedom for the The Conversion Bureau. Should I count it?
Edited by DialgaX Hide / Show Replies
Done.
Any more tropes y'all can find?
I personally despise the story and some of the more famous authors (Chatoyance especially) really piss me off (It's Nothing Personal though) but I am willing to read this piece of shit to fill out this page.
Edited by DialgaX
I've been chipping away at filling out a subpage for JDR's stories, but it's slow going because of how miserable they are. I plan to toss it all into a collapsible tab, since they seem like the best way to split up different author's settings.
I was reminded of it when I saw that her most recent story is a fix fic which portrays the parts of the show she hates as a perverted version of the "real Equestria", using her godawful version as canon.
Edited by ILSS
Thanks, ILSS. Yeah, I know how painful reading her stories can be.
Ugh, I only read a little snippet before I was like "Fuck this, I'm done!"
On a sidenote, does I Wish It Were Real fit? JDR once said, "Sigh. Equestria can't rise from the ocean fast enough."
Fan Wank might fit too as someone accused her of it with regards to a large blog post about her fanon and how disappointed she was with Season 2.
You know, I saw that on the interview with Blaze. He himself seems like a cool guy whose story well, kinda of got out of hand. Chat on the other hand.....
I can see why she'd be disappointed with Season 2 as it clearly counters a lot of what she wrote such as in Putting your Hoof Down where a lot of the ponies were assholes to Fluttershy. Me on the other hand? Derpy situation aside, I rather enjoyed Season 2.
Anyways though, the article is looking pretty good!
I agree with Dr Hooves. In the interview, Blaze seems genuinely surprised that his story got screwed for being a misanthropic piece of shit.
And JDR has some rather serious issues. Though that's probably something we shouldn't put on the page.
How's this for an example?
- Gone Horribly Wrong - Blaze states that he only wanted to explain why Equestria had no humans. Instead, he attracted a sizable hatedom, some crazy authors and a permanent reputation as a misanthrope.
Yeah, let's try not getting the page locked, especially if it does, it'll never get unlocked annoyingly enough.
As for that deal, that looks good, though I can see why people would make that assumption giving that Pinkie and Twilight were semi-OOC and the quotes that they used, so honestly, while Blaze does seem cool, I can see why people would assume the story was misanthropic.
Edited by DrWhooves
I made a point not to say anything about JDR outside of her MLP:FiM fanfics. If anyone wants to know more about her, they can go to Google. As far as I'm concerned, though, anything she says on Ponychan or FimFiction.net is fair game.
Concerning Blaze, I've been trying to find some trope covering things that have something of an undeserved reputation or have been built up to be worse than they are. The original story isn't even all that bad: the first chapter is the worst and the one that earned it its reputation. By the second Twilight doubts that they're doing the right thing, by the third she's repentant, and by the fourth the entire ponification plotline kind of fades into the background in favor of a wacky adventure.
Edited by ILSS
ILSS, Never Live It Down sounds like a good fit.
Original
- Character Derailment - Some hardcore xenophobic statements come from Twilight Sparkle and Pinkie Pie.
- Love It or Hate It - People have very strong opinions about this story.
JDR
- Body Horror - Skimping on the ponification serum leads to a horrifying and painful death as the person is locked between human and pony form. [Cite: 27 Ounces]
- The human form is this to some members of the PER. [Cite: One of her PER stories]
- Mad God - Celestia [Cite: The 800 Year Promise]
Yeah, those look like they're right, though I never read The 800 Year Promise since I'm not a big fan of Chat's stuff, obviously, though I do remember skimming over the 27 Ounces one and remember that scene with the body horror, so that's definitely right.
Edit: Said red link has been fixed.
Also, should I move the Fantastic Nuke trope to the General section of the spinoffs? I don't think that was ever mentioned in Blaze's story where as it has been in the spinoffs.
Edited by DrWhooves
JDR's The PER: Michelson and Morely - The Speed Of Right
- Designated Hero - Michealson and Morely are considered heroic but they do things like engage in ponification attacks with modified paintball guns.
I'm wondering if they'd be more Villain Protagonist, giving that Celestia supposedly denounces them, but I don't know.
The difference is that a Villain Protagonist is never painted in a heroic light by the author. Designated Hero is someone who is painted in a heroic light by the author despite them doing acts that would be considered villainous.
I read snippets of that story and its fairly obvious who we're supposed to cheer on (the PER terrorists).
Edited by DialgaX
Looking at the last chapter of the story, there isn't any ambiguity at all. JDR has Celestia privately pardoning them, and Luna actively praising them.
It's disappointing, given that an earlier story had Luna manipulating events to lead Celestia to a PER cell's headquarters, but I can't say I'm surprised – her stories aren't anywhere near as consistent as she likes to claim.
Edited by ILSS
So are we all on a consensus that Michealson and Morely and the PER are Designated Heroes?
Edited by DialgaX
I'd have to read the story to tell whether it fits or not, but I'm willing to throw out a blind guess that they are.
Yeah, after reading that description, I think Designated Hero would probably fit better.
Edited by DrWhooves
For some reason the site derped and put a double post.
Edited by DrWhooves
Does Chatoyance's story acknowledge Nightmare Moon, Diamond Tiara, Silver Spoon, the Sports Pegasi, or Prince Blueblood? If not have they stated of it's intentional? That would count as Critical Research Failure or Undermined By Reality entry if so.