Follow TV Tropes
I would like to debate this entry:
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but the entry seems to to say something like "The episode was good, but I hate how I have to wait a few months for the next season", which seems kinda weak to me. It would be like if I made a DMOS entry for The Wedding Squanchers because I had to wait a year and a half for the next season.
Plus, as it turns out, the season break only lasted about 4 1/2 months, which is a breeze compared to the likes of Gravity Falls, Rick and Morty, and Steven Universe.
Y'know, in hindsight, maybe that wasn't the best way to handle the situation....yeah, I guess I'll remove it. If it was anything worth keeping, I would have at least tried to defend my reasoning. But really, the only complaint I had was just the wait between cliffhangers. Other than that, this was a fantastic episode. So yeah, bye bye entry.
And let this entry be an example of how not to do this kind of stuff, no matter how frustrated it makes you.
I just had a thought. Maybe the page doesn't have to be as long as it is. I mean, obviously we keep the work pages so that people know where to take their complaints, but maybe the "Other" folder deserves its own page now? Just so the page isn't as long.If this is overly long, and it's a problem to everyone, then maybe there should be some steps taken to fix it. Even a page dedicated to criticizing stuff needs some order, right? Let me know what you guys think.
Does it break the "One moment per work to a troper" rule?
Where is the other moment? This also seem like bashing others for not agreeing with them, which I'd say is grounds for deletion.
If you ask me, it's an entirely different complaint. And even though I disagree with it, it is still valid. He brought up good points, and I feel like the entry should stay on here, just with the bits about the YMMV page taken out. And this is coming from someone who likes the direction the show has taken.
But doesn't it seem too general? I mean, one of the rules of the DMOS page is that an entry needs to be a specific moment. This entry is lumping various moments from the latter half of Season 2.
If the OP still stands by this opinion, then maybe they should have the episode they feel to be the beginning of they believe to be Seasonal Rot as their DMOS and not the whole debacle.
Hey guys, just adding a bit of flavor text to a select few sections of this list. I got to the Rick and Morty one and, instead of a description or revision of a description, I decided instead to make it a sketch like from the actual show. After a while, I decided to show it to you guys and see what you think:
How is it? Do you like it, do you not like it, do you think it needs revisions? Either way, I'll await the result.
I'm all for it! I'd remove the last two lines, though.
Should the "Other" Folder be separated and alphabetized by show?
So, ah...Teen Titans GO! and Powerpuff Girls (2016) are doing a crossover episode. Which page do you think that'll belong on? Because it seems to have the girls as the protagonists and Mojo is the main villain, but the art style appears to be that of TTG. When it comes out, where do you think I should put it? Either way, I may have to change one of my entries.
I've decided to move all of the works that have over 13 moments listed back onto their own pages, due to how overly long the page was. Yes, having too many subpages might not be something to be proud of, but neither does the fact that this page was the only page (according to Overly Long Pages) to have over 600,000 characters.
I understand. Still, I'm worried that it implies that TV Tropes has a bias towards Western Animation, and an easily butthurt one at that.
... I don't track your logic on that, but whatever.
Arthur and Dexter's Laboratory have each have at least 13 contributors but some of them are commenting on the same moment. Is that enough to warrant each of them their own page?
I think it depends on how long each entry is.
The Phantom Strider folder on the DMOS page for Web Original works has only 3 contributors (myself included) about the same moment. Presumably because of how long the entries are.
Maybe the same rules apply to whether something should have it's own page?
Should animated films have their own folder/page? There's quite a few spread through the "Other" folder and it might be nice to have them consolidated in their own area.
I'm nuking the previously mentioned entry for Frozen and the one that's accompanying it. It's blatantly untrue. More details on the discussion page for the now-defunct dedicated DMOS page for this movie.
Can I ask why the Western Animation page had so many sub-pages removed and formed into tabs? No other page has had this happen, so why? Also, does this mean I have to replace my Teen Titans entry so I can add the Gravity Falls episode "Roadside Attraction"? Because I finally got the nerve to go to the entries list and discovered it was not there.
I un-split the entries because the majority of them were unnecessary; a lot of them were too short to warrant splitting, and there were just so many pages like that. It made the Western Animation Fandom look bad! Don't worry about your entries, though; the rule is one per show, so you should be able keep your Teen Titans entry and add a Gravity Falls entry.
Thanks. In my opinion, it's probably the weakest episode of the show. At least it's fine until it starts leading up into its third act; then it becomes rather mediocre.
Now I'm having another problem. I tried to post my moment, but it wouldn't stick. I did this twice, but the entry wasn't there. I managed to cut and paste the entry in case there's anything wrong with it.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? This hasn't happened before, so why is it happening now?
I personally think that Avatar The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra are capable of being merged into their own page, with one folder being about A:TLA and the other folder being about Lo K.
Other than that, I'm okay with the other shows just being moved here.
The only problem I have with scrunching so many subpages back into the main page is that it makes the page extremely long. I'd say it needs a split, but how would it be formatted?
I would like to mention that ever since all of those pages were moved onto this, it has become the most overly long page on the wiki.
Eddy1215: Believe it or not, I've got one for Kim Possible. While a few Post Script Season episodes bug me, one that really leaves a bad taste in my mouth is "Stop Team Go". Basically, Shego has been turned good, and Kim is enjoying spending time with her. The problem is that she's preferring to spend time with her over Ron, her boyfriend. Then, to add injury to insult, during the climatic battle with the Villain of the Week, Ron accidentally gets turned evil again, much to Kim's annoyance. Basically, the entire episode episode was to appease Kigo fans, and before you start saying that I'm complaining about my Fan-Preferred Couple, may I remind you that the pairing in question is suppose to be canon? Think about that.
Isn't it kind of petty to complain about ship sinking?
The complaint isn't what's petty for me, well, mostly. What sells it for me is the "My preferred couple is supposed to be canon" by at the end.
Honkgamzeehonk's rant against Frozen really doesn't deserve to be here. It's poorly written and borderline if not downright Hate Dumb due to its incessant accusation of Double Standards despite including plenty of them in the rant. That's ignoring several instances of Critical Research Failure.
Allow me to elaborate on this so that it doesn't appear as He Panned It, Now He Sucks!. First off, there's the "does not deserve all the praise it gets" statement as if it's a complete fact. But that's far from the worst one he's got. Let's look a little further.
His first argument is that Anna's punch had no physical justification, going off of other information in the movie, and that it was solely because they needed a "strong feminist image" and that it went into Mary Sue territory. Except in the film, Anna is seen lifting a heavy copper bust, swinging around a lute, and trudging through a snowstorm as she was freezing to death from the inside. Yes, she couldn't climb the mountain, but she had no knowledge in it, the air was thin, and gravity was severely hindering her, especially as this time she was trying to lift her whole body with poor footholds. Just like when she punched Hans - it wouldn't have seemed as powerful had he not been thrown over the rail of the ship. And even if Anna weren't that strong, Hans likely hadn't gotten firm footing at the time, and like with Anna climbing the mountain, gravity did much of the work.
Next he says that Anna punching Hans ruined her good characterization. They do say that Hans deserved it, but then the rest of their rant practically gives Hans the leather pants. They mention that punching Hans meant Anna was corrupted, instead of agreeing with him that Elsa "froze her heart". Wait, what? If she agreed with Hans instead of forgiving Elsa (which further suited Anna's loving personality) that would seem pretty corrupted. Not to mention they say that Hans was just standing around and not making a hostile move to either of the sisters at the time, so he didn't deserve the punch. Basically, since the attempted murderer was not attempting to murder at the immediate moment (not to mention it seems like he was considering making a move after Anna turns away) then you should just let him be.
They next mention how it's extremely unlikely that Hans, being a rich prince, had little chance of knowing how to swim. In all fairness this is a more legitimate argument, or was before we remember something very important listed below. Other material does mention that Hans is a naval officer. It's safe to assume a naval officer and prince in the age of sail would know how to swim. But since as said before him being a naval officer is not outright said to the audience, this is very forgivable. However, they then state that had Hans not known how to swim, then Anna would be just as if not more guilty for killing him than he would have been for killing the royalty. But he outright tried to kill Elsa and Anna. And what if he didn't know how to swim? That's quite an easy mistake to rectify. Freeze a bit of water for him to get onto, or drop a rope. But by far the worst part of this argument is the "but she's a princess so she can do whatever she wants" part. It's pretty clearly shown in the movie that bad actions have bad consequences - Anna's immediate trust of Hans obviously almost got her killed. Elsa's refusal to return to Arendelle made the winter worse. The reason they're forgiven? Because they fixed it. Elsa unfroze the fjord the minute she found out how and Anna sacrificed her life to protect her sister from the mistake she made.
Next, they say that Anna punching Hans shows she will get off scot-free for anything she does because she's a woman, add to that a princess. Again, this doesn't add up. He tried to kill her and her sister. I think that's pretty good reason to punch him. Gender doesn't matter here. Except according to them, it does, because of how society might have responded if it were reversed. Again: they cite how society might have (translation never did) responded to gender reversal as one of the reasons the movie isn't worth its praise.
In the last section they say that Anna is praised as a hero for nearly killing... the guy that tried to kill her and her sister. This speaks for itself. They then proceed to claim that "everyone shills this movie as being feminist while really it's poor writing and misandrist". First off, who "shills" the movie as feminist? A vocal minority they display as the majority to discredit the other side. Is the movie feminist? Yes. But it's just as feminist as the next Disney movie. A vocal minority shilling it as the "first and best" Disney movie to do it is just that - a vocal minority. Many a huge fan of Frozen are well aware it isn't the first time Disney has done this. But according to the author of the rant, punching the attempted murderer Hans is misandrist because... he's a man?
To wrap it up, their citing of articles is just baffling. "Anti-Freeze Team" and "Frozen Sucks Tho" being two of three. Well, I'm sure articles written by groups dedicated to hating the movie won't be biased at all. Wouldn't you expect a calm analysis on gay marriage from a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Not to mention there's another troper adding on to the rant that Anna was only allowed to harm somebody else in self-defense "unless it's funny or shows what a cool strong character you are". I already covered why this is ridiculous.
Allow me to say right now, if it's not obvious: there is nothing wrong with disliking Frozen. In fact, there are quite a few legitimate arguments against plot holes or other, like the four entries above the one in question. However, Honkgamzeehonk's entry on the page is on the opposite end of that spectrum. And that's why I think it should be removed, as well as the one below it.
EDIT (October 10, 2015): Yes, I'm aware the entry cannot be removed.
Going back to that argument about Hans not being able to swim? Do you realize just where they are? They're on a ship. A post-Renaissance, Age of Sail ship in colonial times Norway. Don't you think Norway, what with all that Viking stuff and all, would have gotten some safety technology for anyone who can't swim? The Norwegians have long had life preservers of cork. You'd think on a ship that's likely escorting important political members, they'd have some form of life preserver. Even if not the cork, as said before, can't you just toss down a rope? Or even have Sven (who can clearly swim) jump overboard? I don't think Hans would be picky about how to survive. Or Kristoff, who would clearly be able to swim, seeing as he stands above frozen lakes for a living and probably would know how to get out of the water if the ice broke. Why couldn't he dive in and save the bastard?
However, the crowning achievement of Critical Research Failure follows: Hans is seen swimming in the first act of the movie. Yeah, remember when Anna realized she had to get to the coronation and the boat Hans was standing on tipped over? And remember how he lifted the entire rowboat with one arm and swam with the rest of his body? It's pretty obvious that he is fully capable of swimming. He was never in any inkling of danger of dying in a watery grave. If it's apparent that Anna learned Kristoff's name in an offscreen conversation, it's pretty safe to assume Hans mentioned that he swam out of the water or at least that he fell in so he could make a joke to Anna about it. Look at this guy. Does he look like he's in any danger of drowning? ◊
If there are no objections, can I just go and remove the entry?
Following the main page: "Do not remove an entry from the page nor create a Justifying Edit to defend a moment - it's an opinion. Caveat: A Moment may be removed if it is blatantly untrue or otherwise breaks the rules. However, if you do remove an entry, move it to discussion and explain what is wrong (blatantly untrue, multiple entries for the same work, unsigned, etc). Even if the rules were broken, people should know what they did wrong."
Has the criteria been met? I'm fine with just leaving the counterarguments here if not.
Not really. Unless you convince them to retract their DMOS it can't be pulled.
The Rick and Morty Straw Feminist example.
While it's a good argument, I feel he's overreacting a bit to the 7-8% difference.
Yeah that's... a really, really weird reaction to a simple truncation.
I'm just going to take it as a ringing endorsement for Rick And Morty that "the statistics the show claimed are very slightly different from the current stats" is the worst thing he can say about the show.
That Operation M.O.V.I.E.S. example....nitpicking manbabies at their finest.
Well, yeah, that's exactly what these pages are for.
I had to take out Princess Togezo's Catdog example cause, it just isn't fair or thought through. She's saying Cat was an ass for not helping his brother or the people in Nearburg. Think about it. Be in Cat's 'shoes'. Everyone always treated you like shit even when you were younger, your own brother doesn't give a rat's ass if you get injured or is unhappy and doesn't to try comfort you and even as a baby your stepparent Winslow always messes with you/treat you like shit and take's Dog's side. If you were brought up like that, would you try to to get those people, who always treated you like shit and made you life hell, out of jail? And as for the Cat Dog and Helga and Olga sibling relationship, Olga at least TRIES to think about Helga's feelings and doesn't try treat Helga like crap, which is why Helga helped her in return and unlike poor Cat, at least Helga has some people who CARE about her. Phoebe cares about her friend and Arnold cares about her too. So she helps them in return. There's a saying: You catch more flies with honey then with vinegar.
"just isn't fair" is not motive to remove a Dethroning Moment Of Suck example.
I was thinking of putting it back, but putting my own Catdog DMOS under it anyway.
Two DMOS entries don't have to be consistent with each other. Not at all.
When I wrote that entry, I was also thinking of the earlier episode "Sneezie Dog", where at one point Cat and Dog had to build a brick wall between each other, seemingly to be separated forever. If I remember correctly, both of them were heartbroken at this turn of events. If Cat's going to go from being heartbroken at never seeing his brother again to actually enjoying the separation without a hint of worry, something must have really turned him sour between "Sneezie Dog" and "CatDog Catcher". (I know "Teeth for Two" first aired at some point between those two episodes, so if you think the episodes' airing order is also the series' chronological order, maybe that's it.)
Okay, something needs to be done about everyone sectioning off shows with more than four examples to their own articles. The The Adventures Of Jimmy Neutron Boy Genius, The Amazing World of Gumball, Dexter's Laboratory, House Of Mouse, Mad, The Powerpuff Girls, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012, Tom and Jerry, and Ultimate Spider Man DMOS pages are all absurdly short. If a show happens to have a lot of examples, soft-split it into its own section and then give it its own article if it gets out of hand, but we need to get all these pages under control.
I would agree. Plus, proliferating these pages gives the impression that they are an integral part of the wiki. You might want to get more opinions in Ask The Tropers, though.
Just decide on a cutoff number of examples for a soft-split and splitting off.
So, how do we go about doing that?
Start a thread in the Short Term Projects forum here.
I think the DMOS posts for Arthur and Avatar: The Last Airbender are big enough to have their own DMOS pages.
"...that is little more than a blatant attempt to cash in on the success of Kung Fu Panda."
The show in question is Skunk Fu!, and if my sources are correct, the show aired before Kung Fu Panda even hit theaters.
(Old) unsigned entry.
One moment per troper per work. Either replace the old one with this one or leave this one off the page.
What should be done when someone adds two entries at the same time (so there isn't a most recent one to pull)? Hurpadurp added these two under Adventure Time. So far I haven't pulled either of them.
No unsigned entries or multiple moments per work. Also, these moments don't have enough context anyway.
With regards to the "His Hero" episode: I'm not bothered by Finn saving an old lady from a giant. My problem is, firstly, that Finn's attempts at charity and nonviolent help are portrayed as idiotic and only making things worse, and secondly, that the episode makes a point of showing that you can't help people without punching someone else in the face. They even state that the moral is "never deny your rowdy nature". The lesson is definitely supposed to be "violence is the only answer". And yeah, Adventure Time isn't known for it's morals. So? That's no excuse. Family Guy isn't known for having likable characters, yet the DMOS page is filled with instances where characters are unlikable.
The idea is that you can't ALWAYS just talk your problems out. The aesop is that nonviolence doesn't always work.
The reason Finn's charity didn't work out is becasue he's kind of an idiot....
^Firstly, no attempt was made at "talking your problems out". Finn stood a while trying to think of something, and then punched the giant in the face. At no point in the episode does anyone even suggest "talking your problems out". And yes, Finn is kinda stupid, but the episode portrayed his attempts at being active in his community itself as idiotic.
EDIT: No response? Okay, I'm adding it back.
Sorry, I dont check the discussion pages that oftrn. Anyway, add whatever you want, I never pulled your entry. I was just giving my two cents. And, talking it out wasnt the best term. I should have said more that the aesop is that sometimes that violence is sometimes the answer.
Accidentally added this to the wrong bit.
I didn't get the idea that Bending = goodness. Numerous characters who are benders are depicted as being villainous before Amon's reveal, especially Tarrlock. Meanwhile, the Bending Council is seen blatantly abusing its power, and it's shown as a bad thing. Bending is depicted as being a natural part of a person, so losing it is traumatizing, even if the person losing it is loathsome.
The problem with the Equalists is that they're wholly indiscriminate with whom they attack. They make no distinction between "violent criminal" and "pacifist monk fighting for non-bender rights". If they stuck purely to criminals, then the only people who'd have a problem with them would be people who have issue with vigilantism in general, but when they make it a point to attack the police, bending celebrities, and other people who don't go out of their way to attack non-benders.
Also, we don't see the aftermath of the Equalist revolt. They probably fractured given the that the highest level members were either killed, captured, or a bender, so they aren't the organized force they used to be especially when the military moved in.
This has been bothering me for a while.
If you can only have one moment per work on the page, then how come fluffything has at least 9 or 11 entries on this page?
"Per work per page"
You can have multiple DMOS's on a page as long as they belong to different works. Danny Phantom, Tom and Jerry, and Arthur are different works, so he's allowed one for each. If he had two for Danny Phantom, then he'd be breaking the rules.
Cut this entry from Aqua Teen Hunger Force as it's complaining about network promotions and not complaining about something that happened within the show itself:
Please pick a specific moment where MAD took the mickey out of Cars:
Says right at the top of the page: One moment per work to a troper. Disney23, please pick a single episode that you found the worst rather than three at once.
Troper has now chosen High Steaks.
I was going to add an entry for The Legend Of Korra, but I realized that it was just so dang long and had multiple moments in it. I need help picking a moment. I couldn't choose between Korra pestering Mako about his feelings for her, Korra and Mako kissing in "The Spirit of Competition", Bolin getting the mean eye from everyone when he tried to cheer up Korra, Aang giving Korra all of her powers back and then unlocking the Avatar State, or Korra and Mako's declarations of love in the end. Could I get a recommendation from anyone?
I recommend finding something better to do with your time.
Or write a review. You can complain all you want there.
Hm. Ok. I'll try to write a review.
Fromthe Wordsof BR, you can only have one of these. Choose.
Same person, same issue. Even the same episodes, I just realised; I'm still posting them here because I did say I'd pull them to the discussion page. Troper in question PM'd.
He's chosen and readded the Prime Problem one.
A troper put something called: "The Scooby Doo Project" What show is that from? The Troper didn't say.
Oh never mind, I looked it up....
The other Inspector DMOS is the short which derailed The Inspector's soft-spoken, and quiet sidekick, Juju, or whatever his name is, into a ditzy, hyper moron who would willingly walk straight into traps without question. Basically, Cosmo as a soldier from Europe. Given how sudden it is, it's really jarring
I didn't know you couldn't even mention the stuff in the discussion, my bad.
Oh but now, what I said before is up there! Tvtropes, you bizarro...
Since this is natter but I just want to say it somewhere, just pointing out on the example for The Adventures Of Jimmy Neutron, Australia ISN'T a continent in a variety of countries, but Oceania is. Not sure if it applies to the example, but just saying it's not as bad of an error as it's made out to be.
Uh, no. A quick bit of research will tell you that Australia is the only country that's its own continent. The rest of Oceania doesn't count, since it's just a bunch of islands located near it.
On Jimmy Neutron's entry, a troper complained that Jimmy calls Australia a country instead of a continent, when Australia is actually considered a part of the Oceania continent. Do I permission to delete that sentence since it's a case of being misinformed?
The complaint about Return of Harmony 2 makes no sense. It claims that Discord's defeat is anticlimatic compared to Nightmare Moon's...but...They did the exact same thing to her! Just like Discord, the Mane Six hit her with the rainbow beam...thing and that was that.
...Oh my god, people. Seriously? You're complaining that the villain wasn't defeated exactly the way you wanted him to be? That...that's just childish.
Nearly every example for MLP:Fi M is childish whining.
Example "OH MY GOD, THAT FLAG IS HISTORICALLY INACCURATE!!!"
American Dad should have it's own page seeing as how it has quite a few DMOS examples listed.
Also I'm suprised no one put Clevland show examples. though I can think of the one where Terry is revealed to be gay right out of nowhere (wasting a plot about bisexuality, and the fact that he had sex with girls in past episodes)
Eight examples listed now, starting to get cluttered.
Re: Futurama. Hurk, the second episode of season six. That went very wrong way too fast, and the Kill Sat twist was... what.
IIRC, this was cut way back when by someone who wasn't the signer, with no explanation:
This is what the part about TDWT's ending in that entry on Action's finale was reffering to, as if to say that TDA's ending was worse as it wasn't planned out.
Before it was deleted, there was a Justifying Edit saying that Ezekiel survives and Alejandro's end was more of a karmatic not-really-death. Also, someone else had added this moment, although as a completely different entry.
So... yeah. I would add it back, but I waited too long (I put this on my to do list a while after the deletion) and now the finale's already mentioned.
Shadoboy, could you elaborate on this?
Shadoboy: Probably the most hated episode of the series is Everyone knows it's Bendy. The show creators have actually apologized for making that episode!
A few things that were cut from the page when it was being brought into line with the new guidlines:
I find it kind of coincidental that the shows that got their own pages were all on FOX.
Gave King Of The Hill it's own page because it became so long. When there is ~20 entries, it's too long to just scroll through on the main page, so folders are used and it's placed on the top. However, if it gets longer than that, it's a pain to get through even in the edit mode.
Can we resolve this here please, and not on the main page:
Someone recently put unde the Animaniacs entry that ap[parently the episode wasn't making fun of fans, it was making fun of Fan Dumb I've put the entry here and can we please resolve this on the discussion page:
The Please Please Please Get A Life Foundation wasn't about people who like Animaniacs, it was about people who take the time to point out minor, irrelevant errors in kid's cartoons.
Should "King of the Hill" get it's own page? It's examples are around 20, yet "The Simpsons" and "Family Guy" have around 50 (havn't checked for "Zero Punctuation").
I agree with you.
zero punctuation does have it's own page in web original.
No, they mean they haven't counted the number of examples under Zero Punctuation.
Update: as of this writing, now King of the Hill has 46 entries. Although most of them are jumping to the conclusion that the "wrong morals" are actual aesops and not thinking of them as parodies. Then again, the Family Guy page mostly has people complaining about a "Dude, Not Funny!" joke, even though FG is pretty much a Dead Baby Comedy series.
Even a Dead Baby Comedy has to draw the line somewhere.
Community Showcase More
How well does it match the trope?