Child Soldiers don't have to be explicitly soldiers. The Guard is a territorial protection unit that is normally staffed by adults, and fighting threats to the Pride Lands is presented as par for the course, so yes, they would be Child Soldiers.
The example needs to be rewritten, but I don't see any problem with listing them as Child Soldiers.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
Yeah, I think the spirit of the trope is less "being soldiers in a standing army" and more "being enlisted in an organized combat unit," which it sounds like the Lion Guard is. Though it seems like Recruit Teenagers with Attitude would be a better fit.
But yeah, the moral judgments stay off the page.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I want to apologize for my rude attitude. I had a stressful day the day I posted that, and I know that doesn't justify it, but I say that because I want everyone to know I am not normally a rude person.
That last part, "I want to thank you for the mental image of Simba with a Hitler mustache watching Kion and a thousand downtrodden lion cubs and other baby animals march a la the "Be prepared" song," was also meant as a joke, but re-reading it now, it sounds unintentionally rude to me. I'm sorry.
I also misunderstood the trope. To me Child Soldiers felt weird to be applied to a Disney Junior show because when I read that it calls to mind something that is serious and treated that way by the work. If on TV tropes it means "any child that fights," it fits. I think the name is a little misleading, but maybe I'm the only one. I have no problem with adding the trope back.
Again, I apologize.
Edited by Everdream
Ok I don't have any problem with calling the Guard child soldiers, but I have some concerns about any child that fights part. Child soldiers means that they have to be fighting in a unit, it does not mean fighting in self defence. A nice example of a child who fought in self defence would be Jasiri since she was not part of the Guard and she tried to avoid the fight in the first place, so it should extend only to the Guard, not to any child who fights, because then this trope will probably get abused beyond belief.
Edited by hopeshalllive
The following examples are being edit-warred over. Please discuss them here rather than readd and redelete them.
From Kiara:
- Meaningful Name: Kiara means "princess" in Swahili.
From Mufasa:
- Meaningful Name: His name means "king" in the Manazoto language.
- Kiara: The name does not mean princess in Swahili, however it is an imported name and may be commonly given to regal girls. There has been an assertion that information about this was sought out by the production of the film, and whilst no evidence has been provided, I am leaning towards believing this — from my own knowledge of language usage in Tanzania.
- Mufasa: It is reported as meaning king in Manazoto. However, this language is an undocumented tribal language, and so anything claiming to have definitive translations is untrue, as no such thing exists. It is also obscure enough to not be reasonable to trope for Meaningful Name.
- Kiara: I believe that the name does mean princess in Swahili, because Disney sent production teams and research teams to Kenya to get information about these animals, the landscape, and various names, and they were told about this in person. Even though someone uses the expression "It is not on Google Translate, therefore it isn't real" the lead developer of the Lion Guard has acknowledged that Google Translate is not the best way to get word meanings, and this was learned first hand, and they gave that information to the filmmakers, so it is absolutely impossible to deny something that was told straight up. So I believe that Kiara means princess in Swahili
- Mufasa: They made that name up. I believe that it doesn't mean that in the Manazato language.
Hopeshalllive, can you provide any evidence to support your claims whatsoever?
That said, I'm fine with lakingsif's explanations.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
Okay, if Kiara is a name commonly given to regal girls, then I suppose that can fit... though it's odd that it had, you know, never come up before. That said, that still feels just a bit... odd and shoehorn-ish. Like an Alpha Bitch girl named Tiffany having Meaningful Name because it's a name commonly given to Alpha Bitch characters.
Looks like we're in accord that Mufasa is a shoehorn.
EDIT: If lakingsif is correct, it seems like Kiara would actually fall under Preppy Name rather than Meaningful Name.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Okay, so Kiara is not only a name that is commonly given to girls of royalty, but it is an actual word. I mean, they got that name from Kenya, so someone told them that is what it means, and sometimes as we have seen in the past, different words have different meanings in different languages. Just because it is from a different country doesn't mean it is automatically imported. So I don't think it applies to Preppy Name, but I do believe it falls for Meaningful Name.
Seriously, if you could provide even a shred of evidence for your claims, that would be greatly appreciated.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
To settle the Kiara matter, I just googled it and found three different sources (1. Disney wiki, 2. Lion King forum, and 3. etymology). It is Gaelic for "bright" (1, 2, 3) and the producers acknowledged this (1, 2), but defended the choice because of its use in Central Africa (2). It comes from the Latin chiaro (as in Chiaroscuro), and the specific spelling "Kiara" developed in Ireland. The name was imported to Africa, but only adopted in sub-Saharan regions because in Saharan nations it overlapped with local words of similar pronunciation. Its definition (bright) has caused it to be given to people of importance.
And it doesn't mean princess.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Very well. I will agree with that, but since it has been given to people of importance, I suggest Meaningful Name, and then say Kiara means "bright" and then say that it meant Kiara was important.
Can we all agree to that? Proposed new entries: delete Mufasa and replace Kiara with:
- Meaningful Name: 'Kiara' comes from the Latin chiaro, and the specific spelling "Kiara" developed in Ireland. The name was imported to Africa, and its definition (bright) has caused it to be given to people of importance.
And include "%%Please do not change this entry without discussion." Because, you know, we are not having this discussion all over again.
Of course, I'd also presume that because the people who introduced the name were wealthy Christian missionaries, the importance of the name was ramped up quite a lot just because of that, which is pretty inconsequential to the meaning.
Edited by lakingsif OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Works for me. Plus one vote.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
I agree with that. You have another vote. Seems we have a consensus.
Edited by hopeshalllive
OK, I've put it up with the note, and I also did a little check of all the other Meaningful Name and Kovu's Dead Guy Junior entries + reasons. It all seems fine right now. Might glance over the A Dog Named "Dog" ones to make sure it's all kosher while I'm here.
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
I just put why Kiara was given the name meaning just to make certain nobody got rid of it and then justifying it by saying "why is that so"
The ADND entries are good. Your edit could use a bit of English correcting, but is fine otherwise (I think you should have used a semi-colon (;) at the start of what you added instead of a comma, and you're missing a word somewhere).
OH MY GOD; MY PARENTS ARE GARDENIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!
In the future don't change a page back and forth. Either of you could have brought this to discussion.
However "chiaro" is not a Latin word. It's Italian and the Latin equivalent would be "clarus" (even google can confirm this). I know because I'm Italian and I've studied Latin. Maybe it's not that important but still
Should Kiara really be sorted under the first movie characters? Although Word of God confirms that she's the cub at the end of the original movie, her appearance in the first movie is nothing but a mere Early-Bird Cameo, and she's only introduced as a proper character in the second movie
On the Kung Fu Panda character page, Po's father is listed under the third movie's characters, as despite appearing briefly in three scenes in the second movie (Po's nightmare, flashback to Po's childhood, and The Stinger), he's still only named and introduced properly in the third movie. Kiara's case is similar to this, except she appears in even fewer scenes (only one).
Edited by Snicka
What's the point of listing Timon's Dad? He's a deleted character.
It's like listing Nala's little brother Mheetu.
The Tropes Are With Me.
Why are so many tropes for each character not being shown? I was set to add a few, only to find out they were already there, but hidden.
Hide / Show Replies
Because they are Zero Context Examples. Until they get enough context they have to stay hidden.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yes. You'll need to explain how the trope applies in each instance so that anyone who doesn't know the work can understand.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Should we include Kopa from the "Six New Adventures" book? Essentially he was a Lion King Character, and the books were at least published under the Disney name.
Techically he's from an alternate continuity, but I think he still counts.
I removed this:
Shoehorned example. They are not soldiers. Soldiers are people who fight in an army, not a small group of baby animals that happen to fight evil every once in a while. It's certainly not a "most serious and morally questionable act in a Disney program."
I want to thank you for the mental image of Simba with a Hitler mustache watching Kion and a thousand downtrodden lion cubs and other baby animals march a la the "Be prepared" song.
Edited by Everdream Hide / Show Replies