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May 5th 2018 at 7:47:24 PM •••

Yes, we should give the Timmverse Superman his own page due to his large amount of tropes and popularity. What about the DCAU Batman?

Edited by Manny20444
May 5th 2018 at 7:48:56 PM •••

The Timmverse Batman deserves his own page as well.

May 5th 2018 at 8:04:57 PM •••

Okay, it's settled. Both characters could have their own pages. We should just follow the examples of their DCEU counterparts.

Mar 22nd 2018 at 8:29:29 AM •••

Can Superman be considered an Adaptational Wimp under this argument?

"He suffers from this very much so at first. It's very obvious that his power level is smaller than most versions at the beginning of the series. Sufficiently high power slugs (we're talking used for tanks, etc) cause him to get knocked around, he has some trouble catching and holding things like cranes, and he in general comes off as nowhere near as strong as we've come to expect from most versions. He at times even comes off as weaker than the Nerf John Byrne put him through in The Man of Steel. He does, however, grow in power as the series progresses (The Worf Effect in the first season of Justice League notwithstanding) to something more expected of the character by his final appearances."

The trope is not about characters who suffered a minor power decrease or had their most badass moment cut from the adaptation. It is when their usefulness, agency, and contribution to the plot is significantly reduced. Not to mention that throughout the character's history, his powers have increased or decreased due to plot necessity.

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Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:14:42 AM •••

He is weaker than his comic book counterpart.

Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:16:38 AM •••

Just because he doesn't have the same strength or speed as his comic book counterpart, just as long as his "usefulness, agency, and contribution to the plot is significantly reduced." A character's powers can be reduced and still be badass.

Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:17:18 AM •••

In Justice League, he was reduced to the League's Worf.

Edited by Manny20444
Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:22:57 AM •••

Which is a different trope, justified by the show's Ensemble Cast nature.

Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:27:21 AM •••

The evidential facts that are about how the Timmverse Superman suffers from Adaptational Wimp are presented through the character page. The argument is very accurate.

Edited by Manny20444
Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:43:29 AM •••

Since Superman is the protagonist in his own TV show, he can't be an AW because despite his power reductions, he still saves the day on a regular basis, which obviously means a major contribution to the narrative. He doesn't lose agency to other characters. He can't be an AW in Justice League either because AW and The Worf Effect are about different things (agency and contributions to the plot vs power and fighting skill).

Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:51:10 AM •••

This message is intended for everyone else. Who else agrees with me that the Timmverse Superman suffers from Adaptational Wimp?

Apr 19th 2018 at 8:36:33 PM •••

Sorry, made a new comment when I inteded to edit. See below.

Edited by Shotoman
Apr 19th 2018 at 9:03:42 PM •••

I agree as well, though I'm probably not the most impartial, as I wrote the original argument.

That said, I don't think simply being the main character who still saves the day itself should invalidate the argument. After all from the AW page itself, "The character may have been The Ace as an Invincible Hero and this trope makes them a more compelling protagonist with real dramatic concern for their safety."

He does still save the day, he is still Superman, but we're not just talking about a minor lowering of his power level. We're talking about a reduction in power that does significantly change his dynamic with his foes. The Lex-O Suit, for example, as portrayed in the 5 part pilot, would not be a thrilling or suspenseful fight against even the John Byrne version, but it sure is here.

Apr 19th 2018 at 9:16:20 PM •••

Superman's powers have been all over the place since his introduction in the 1930s, not to mention that, powerful as he is, he regularly comes across opponents who can match him in power and intellect (i.e. Brainiac, Darkseid). We're seeing Superman in the beginning of his career, so he is obviously discovering what he can do. In the Justice League Unlimited finale, he says he never uses his full, unrestrained might unless he has no other choice, which would qualify as Willfully Weak.

Edited by MasterHero
Apr 20th 2018 at 4:11:44 AM •••

I am aware of the fluctuation of Superman's powers over the years. I've watched the Fleicher cartoons, I was a fan Lois and Clark, I've read as much of the comics as I could. I know that (modern) Superman holds back. I know "Leap tall buildings in a single bound" used to be literal. Looking at the comics at the time of the cartoon's production, I even know that Superman was still in his Post-Doomsday mullet years when the series started (Trial of Superman was the big story of the time, if I recall correctly), meaning that while his powers were in an upswing, he still hadn't quite fully recovered from the Byrne nerf.

And the showrunners still purposefully and specifically lowered his power levels for the sake of good action and drama, something they were admitting to right out of the gate.

What is the trope for that if not Adaptational Wimp? That's my legitimate question. Superman was put through a definite form of adaptational weakening, even if he was able go grow out of it through the various Sequel Series.

Apr 20th 2018 at 7:44:37 AM •••

Like I said before, the only justification I can think of is that he is at the beginning of his career, meaning that he is just testing the limits of his powers.

Sep 26th 2017 at 3:13:33 AM •••

I think the Rogues Gallery needs to be broken up into subsections.

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