Discussion Characters / SuperSmashBrosForNintendo3DSWiiU

Aye, I've listed it on Overly Long Pages.

How exactly should the page be split though? Maybe Default characters on one page, Unlockables and DLC characters on the other?

I was thinking on-disc characters on one page and DLC on the other, but your idea more evenly divide the characters, which sounds better.

Unlockables are messy because the Wii U version has some of the 3DS's ones unlocked by default. DLC Characters should have their own page.

Isn't this page the only one that's overly long? Are there any newcomers that are unlockable on the 3DS but default in the Wii U? (I don't remember)

There's also only 4 DLC characters that are entirely new to Smash, so I don't really like the idea of having a page with only 4 characters.

Either we divide it up evenly or split by groups. The former looks tacky and the latter is going to have one page smaller than the other.

I think we can live with the latter as long as the larger group isn't too big that it causes issues.

Maybe the Mii Fighters can also go onto the DLC character page, as that's easily the biggest section that can't be split up. Not to mention that there are tons of DLC content for them as well.

Bowser Jr. is unlockable on 3ds and starter on Wii U.

I'd rather have the DLC on one page. Keep the Mii Fighters with the other On-Disc, since that's what they are.

Also general comment, 21 newcomers if you divide out the Mii Fighters. That's only 5 less than newcomers+returners on Melee. They really stacked this game.

Looking at how Skullgirls handled their character pages, I suppose a page just for DLC characters is acceptable (in a perfect world, more DLC characters would make the page bigger, but alas, Sakurai and the rest of the developers did an incredible job on the game and they deserve a rest).

I made the page for DLC characters here, I know, the page name is incredibly long... hopefully nothing catastrophic happened while I was editing.

Cool! I made a request to change the wikiword to the simpler "Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U - DLC Characters", though; it's still long, but not as much of a mouthful. But by the way, since the DLC characters have their own page now, shouldn't the image for the standard characters page represent the roster without the DLC?

Do we really need the "See here" DLC characters header on this page, anymore, when they've clearly been moved off to their own page, already linked alongside every other Smash subpage at the top of the article?

I'd say yes. If someone comes to this page looking for them since, well, this is the game they were introduced in, it's convenient. I don't see why we wouldn't.

Personally, I think it's a redundant waste of space, hence why I was asking. </extremely late response>

A more objective view on her being Unexpected Character is her restrictions. She strips when she performs wicked weaves (and as you can see they settled for something in this game), and using almost-realistic weapons are putting her on the edge of not getting in.

But unexpected by whom? The majority of fans who voted for her?

Unexpected because of restrictions. Unexpected because they feel she wouldn't get in because of her... uh... "assets".

i mean i know what you're saying. I juat think that if you take the Smash Bros dev team at their word that Bayonetta was No. 1 worldwide, No. 1 in Europe and at least No. 5 in the US, then that means in retrospect all the fan polls that were projecting like King K Rool or Shovel Knight etc were just polling the wrong people.

Had they polled the people that were actively voting for Bayonetta she wouldve placed higher and then been 'expected.' She may have been unexpected to people who really think about who can get in and why and esrb ratings and etc, but among most people who probably don't even know what the esrb is, they probably just said, oh she's cool and i hope she gets in, and voted.

She was only 1 in Europe. The Worldwide thing is more of average or so.

I can see your point though. But shouldn't there be a trope that puts a character that, while expected, has some "issues"?

Getting Crap Past the Radar?

Or it may already be covered by her Bowdlerize entry.

I honestly still think it should be Unexpected Character by the same way how Cloud and Ryu barely (if ever) appearing in fan polls (and thus not really expected by certain Smash fans), being a risque character, and being relatively a low-seller/niche title, regardless of the poll. I mean, the poll pretty much implies she wouldn't be getting in because they had to vote for her to get in, after all.

Random comment, but man, one shouldn't really rely on online polling. Holy shit at all the salt.

Not to mention, the majority of people in general probably aren't even aware of the polls. The silent majority of Smash players are fairly casual and wouldn't even know that there was a poll.

And even knowing about the poll, it's a pretty shocking win. She's probably objectively the most out of place character in the roster, being a third-party M-rated sexpot from a relatively new series.

So yes. And personally, even voting for her, I honestly didn't expect to see her in the game.

Yep, I voted her but I had a feeling she wouldn't get in due to her assets. Her being in was a major surprise.

Okay, three-to-one among those showing up in the discussion page, the vote is yea. So mote it be.

wait but we're at least tied as far as tropers are concerned.

theres a guy in the WMG page that predicted Bayonetta.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/SuperSmashBrosMiscPart2

One Of Us, (actually two, PDL in November and Krspace T in July) made the prediction based on the fact that she's a gunner to fit with cloud's swordsman and ryu's brawler. Looking at it that way, she's more likely than other gunners like Master Chief or Lara Croft since Nintendo was doing a ton of cross promotion for the Wii U exclusive Bayonetta 2. I It's even more dubious to call her a Dark Horse Victory since we don't know who the 'likely' candidates were beyond fan speculation that picks up steam in fan circles. Unless one of you guys works at Nintendo and has more info than I do, I'm just trying to get us out of our own heads about this.

I don't think you can legitimately call someone who wins the popular vote unexpected.

Unless everyone is unexpected which this page seems to gush about...

People already explained though.

Winning the poll doesn't necessarily mean she is expected. As I said, if anything it just adds that she is unexpected because you voted for her in the first place. And then there's stuff like her assets, her presence already ignored by most of the fanbase as far as fan polls are concerned, etc.

Hell, her games are very niche.

Far older than that. Remember Game FA Qs character poll?

I don't see why you wouldn't.

Added Corrin and got started on Bayonetta. I forgot what Corrin's Final Smash was called, though.

I'm sorry, but why were the images I added deleted?

Should Corrin have his own section? If there's only one first party DLC, why bother splitting into two groups? It's also weird that he ends up taking primacy over Ryu and Cloud who were announced first.

Can we make a combined DLC character section?

For that matter, should Bayonetta even fall under third-party? Platinum isn't a Nintendo subsidiary, but Ninty did publish the second game and the Wii U rerelease of 1, and I don't think Sega owns the rights anymore.

Nintendo has licensing rights for Bayonetta 2 as a game specifically, but Sega still has the rights to the IP. It's why they had to be consulted for the sequel despite otherwise having nothing to do with it. Platinum are "mercenary devs" of sorts who develop games for whoever's willing to pay them. Far as I know they don't own even a single IP.

Yep. All somebody has to do is find a high quality version of the Wii U CSS and go for it.

I found out, but I'm having two problems: Due to the size of the roster and how it's arranged, not only are there black borders on the corners of the pic I got (All of my attempts to remove them so far ended up making the pic look like crap), but I also found out the image's size messes up how the page looks; the result is garbage, to put it nicely. Until I or someone else can find ways around this problem (at least the second one), I think it's better to stick to the image we have now.

So.. how 'bout that Rayman reveal/leak?

Fake, unfortunately. I would have loved Rayman to be a DLC guest...

Last I checked, that's what we did. Which made the most sense to me.

...

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All what I can find in GIS has some bad quality issues.

He's a Nintendo character. Monolith Soft is owned by Nintendo, and therefore so is Shulk.

Well it's coming in less then two weeks...I suppose it'll come soon

So I'm guessing we're gonna wait for Smash U huh?

Seems like, yes.

Dr. Mario is next...

And the Dr was unlocked. Only one remaining is Bowser Jr.

Bowser Jr. just got confirmed. His alts are the Koopalings.

Falco also confirmed..

Aaaugh, i was trying to avoid spoilers! D:

The guy is playing Pit in order to unlock him. He lost twice to Dark Pit...

And the guy SD himself LOL

... She-Hulk?

Shulk from Xenoblade.

List the characters as they are revealed on the official site. Don't give the degenerate who leaked the footage the acknowledgement he craves.

Yeah, wait until the official site says so. Plus, as it stands, Bowser Jr. doesn't have a good quality render nor concrete info on his moveset. Now, thta wouldn't make for a very good wiki page, now would it? :)

Not forget anymore more that mentions in leak roster..... Duck Hunt Dog!...(i wonder "if" he confirmed game how be fighting style...)

Also say that Dr. Mario and Dark Pit be confirmed like clones.......... so yeahhh.....

I've heard Dark Pit isn't' a clone.

Seeing his origin history, I would think so, yes.

I know in series of Kid Icarus, "Pitoo" is unique character that also very different to Pit, but problem the "supposed leak" had he with Lucina and Dr. Mario in one cession in roster. The weird part they're not part in series group (i mean Dr. Mario with Mario series, Lucina with Fire Emblem and Dark Pit in Kid Icarus respectively), so many thing they put own cession of "clones".....

So fact maybe o not, they're be 90% movesest clones about original characters

Of course you maybe respond "what about Luigi, Falco, Ganondorf and Toon Link" .... Differents these characters be "Luigification" than say compared others clones. Also in Demo Japan, had roster all character◊ being confimerd (except of Lucina, that she unlocke in game and that proven she be in ceccion in others clones like her, same like leaker is look)

Nah, keep them togheter. They don't have enough of a difference between each other to warrant different trope lists.

Wait wait wait. I don't see the necesity of separating these pages. It's unnecessary, and only adds more clutter, especially if one page is made for each game.

we could just make one page for them

We can combine them into one then. I was thinking one per game might be too much as I was doing it.

General page: Super Smash Bros. - Others

I commented out the sub pages until we come down on which version to use

It's just one extra link on the page, Seems pretty manageable to me

Also, please don't forget to index your pages.

That's better. I'm sending the others to the Cut List.

Do it. I indexed the new pages too.

see Sub character pages described below. That'd probably be the best way to do it if we want to add NPC characters in a consistent way

So when will this/these Sub Page(s) be made? Or is it/are they already being made?

I'd say no.

I feel like that would make the page unwieldly, and not add very much.

What we could do is create new sub pages such that the Characters pages would only be for playable characters, and then a new Sub Characters page for Assist trophies/pokemon, adventure mode/smash run enemies, stage hazards and potentially move the boss characters there too. as they debuted by game, Sub Characters 64, Sub Characters Melee etc. etc.

Not a bad idea.

He's wearing a dark red that looks purplish, like in his standard look for Xenoblade Chronicles. However, it does not matter for the sake of Red Is Heroic, as that trope would only apply to Xenoblade Chronicles, not Smash.

Yes I agree he's wearing some shade of Red particularly his vests, shorts, and shoes.

it's red.

I see again video, i can prove he just part of smash of Robin; But my another question in that question is Lucina a clone moveset or a alt skin of Marth. mhmmm...

Today reveal than Lucina after all she confirmed a clone of Marth

Because Gradius?

...Sounds about right.

It is not a fighting game by any stretch of the imagination. It's a single-player game where you fight bosses who use particular attack patterns... just because it's "boxing" which would make it viable for it to be a fighting game doesn't make it one.

I understand classifying it more as a sports game (though I personally disagree, as I consider it a fighting game and a sports game), but saying it's "not a fighting game by any stretch of the imagination" is wrong, and IMO, ridiculous. I know Punch-Out uses a Puzzle Boss-like gameplay style, but that doesn't change the fact that you hit enemies, deplete their life bars, avoid their hits, and can use several moves (they are limited, I know, but still). These are the basic criteria for any fighting game. Whether you consider it more of a sports game is one thing, but saying it's not a fighting game "by any stretch of the imagination" would be like saying Lightning Returns can't be considered an RPG because you can't form a party of characters, or that Metroid can't be considered a platformer because of the action-adventure element.

Larkmarn, your statement is implying that what you just said is a fact. It's not. It's an opinion.

This situation is because opinions clash. And that's okay, but a general consensus is what we're going for, not "my opinion is superior". Please actually debate in good faith here.

totoofze47 has the right idea of how we should go about this.

That said, this is my opinion on it; We should look at the actual official genre according to Nintendo's own website and go from there for classification. Keep in mind, they actually refer to games with their genres added if it has elements too. However, having elements from another game doesn't make it officially that genre. It can, but that's another story.

If we're going for a subjective consensus, I don't believe it truly embodies what a fighting game is to be directly called that genre. I would classify it directly as a Sports/Puzzle game with Fighting elements. Again, this is purely my opinion. I already understand how the game works when I say this. I've played it myself, after all.

I've always considered Punch-Out to be a Sports/Fighting game with Puzzle elements (I also played the game, and I personally didn't feel the puzzle aspect was as present as the fighting aspect), but I agree, going by Nintendo's own classification for it is the way to go. I've checked the official website, and unless I missed something, the games in the series are referred to simply as boxing games, so I'll be careful to refer to them as that whenever I edit the page from here on out.

I've checked Game FA Qs and Wikipedia. Both say Boxing, but relate it to Sports specifically. I'd say we might as well stick with that.

Thank you for taking the time to talk about this. :)

How about we see this from another perspective? Ignoring his series' genre, Little Mac is the first fighter in Super Smash Bros that actually has fighting as his trade and profession.

Mother Brain is an Assist Trophy. Nobody knows Yellow Devil's placement. I'd wait till we have clear information or till the game comes out.

Yellow Devil is a stage hazard

Those related tropes are irrelevant to Smash Bros. and don't belong here anyway. They belong on her character sheet for Super Mario.

Kind of like how on the Capcom Vs Whatever character sheets we don't fully copy a Marvel character's sheet from their own work page, just what's related to the work at hand.

She's closer to The High Queen than a Princess, anyway.

We have no idea if the trope will fit.

Also, let's kill speculation on the actual movesets, including their origins. The only one in Villager's moveset is that he has been confirmed to use random objects like in the games proper, which doesn't confirm their origin, just that it's similar to what he's like, and that his Balloon Fight shout out is very clear without doubt. He actually looked and acts like the character clearly. Other stuff like his Net Grab is nothing more than that. The Miiverse post said it was a Grab(only word used) and that it was similar to the Grappling Beam and Clawshot(could be throw, though he never mentions any throwing whatsoever, or could be range, which we do see it somewhat in the various videos that he has a disconnected hitbox when he uses the Net Grab itself, so the range part is at least confirmable to a degree. We just don't really know if you can use it for a throw).

And so on.

We do not need anything of the sort. Reveal order makes more sense than anything else right now.