Shouldn’t Winston be the Big Good of overwatch since he’s the de-facto leader?
Tief girl with eartude
OK, so AFAIK, Shes Got Legs is specifically about characters having attention drawn to their legs, not outfits that happen to show them.
* ShesGotLegs: Her "Palanquin" skin has her in a hanbok with a very short skirt that accentuates her slim, feminine legs. ** Her "Waveracer" skin gives her smaller shorts without a skirt to obscure her legs, really showing off how nice they look.
I removed this example, with an edit reason saying so, but it has since been readded with no explanation. Thoughts?
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Laconic: "The use of a woman's legs as an object of sexual attraction."
Yep. Unless the game glorifies D.Va's appearance with this skin's appearance, it doesn't count.
I added the "Palanquin" part of the example, because it seems pretty apparent that her legs were meant to be the main appeal of the outfit.
In what way?
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As the trope itself describes: direct attention has to be paid to the sex appeal of showing off her legs. There are no characters in the game or in the lore who pay attention to the skin that a character is wearing. D.Va does not get complimented on showing off her legs in the Palanquin skin.
Curly Goddess
D Va as Stone Wall:
Even if you take it to mean "all defense, little offense", she still doesn't qualify
unless you remove her from the same attack radius as Reinhardt, and if you do, she's still a better attacker since aside from Firestrike, his ranged DPS is literally zero.
In her mech, she hits hard, hits fast, and can take hits too. She's a Lightning Bruiser and, IIRC, a character can't be both a Lightning Bruiser AND Stone Wall or Mighty Glacier or Glass Cannon or Fragile Speedster. They're supposed to be mutually exclusive.
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The problem with the chart you've linked is just how WIDE D.va's damage range is. Even if you put the characters with three asteriks below her on the Minimum DPS chart (denoting them having a hard-capped maximum range), she'd be 18th out of 22. That means that her minimum DPS is surpassed by just OVER 80% of all other heroes in the game.
Sure, at her best, she's 8th/22 at in maximum damage, but her falloff is HUGE. Having a highly damaging sweetspot doesn't necessarily exclude people from Stone Wall status; fellow Stone Wall Reinhardt can One-Hit Kill every non-tank Hero with a direct charge, but in outside of that, his damage is on the lower end of the spectrum.
Honestly, I'm of the mind that she should be stripped of Lightning Bruiser status and brought down to Stone Wall. If, when EVERYTHING is going her way, she's still unable to crack the top third of the roster for DPS, and at her WORST she's technically the second weakest damaging hero excluding hard range caps? I'd argue that's just not enough firepower to classify her as a Lightning Bruiser.
In a hypothetical scenario where D.va lost enough durability OR mobility (not both) to be stripped of her status that way, would you say she has enough damage potential to be either a Glass Cannon or Mighty Glacier?
I think having her as a Stone Wall is seriously reaching. Yes, her damage falloff is huge, but if you're shooting people at long range with her in the first place, you're not playing her right. And it's not like her defense gets better at the same time that her offense gets worse, except it's probably harder to flank Defense Matrix at range. But even in that scenario, the Matrix will only last for a few seconds. Using it properly means using it sparingly, to block huge damage in one shot. She is NOT a character that can sustain defense.
Reinhardt's charge doesn't really have anything to do with anything because it's not a reliable DPS attack. Even if you argue that 350 damage in one shot is good, it's still got a monstrous cooldown and a D.Va that races forward, rams an enemy, and starts shooting will do more DPS in a much shorter time. If anything, Rein's charge is a finisher/Death Or Glory attack. His only real DPS is his hammer.
Also, that last part falls into serious Begging the Question territory.
Edited by NubianSatyress
But D.Va has Medium to short Range and if she is in that Range she can dish out a decent amount of damage.
So she doesn't have minimal offense, therefore she doesn't qualify for a Stone Wall
Uni cat
OK, so AFAIK, Shes Got Legs is specifically about characters having attention drawn to their legs, not outfits that happen to show them.
* ShesGotLegs: Her "Palanquin" skin has her in a hanbok with a very short skirt that accentuates her slim, feminine legs. ** Her "Waveracer" skin gives her smaller shorts without a skirt to obscure her legs, really showing off how nice they look.
I removed this example, with an edit reason saying so, but it has since been readded with no explanation. Thoughts?
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Miss
Does D.Va count as a Breakout Character? While she's one of the playable heroes and therefore not a minor character, it seems from the beginning that she was meant to play second fiddle to characters like Tracer (obviously), Soldier:76, Reaper and the Shimada brothers, but she ended up overshadowing the rest of the cast.
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Overshadowing them in what way?
By comparison, Sombra seems to fit more. Since her reveal, Sombra's been in one animated short, and two comics (although one being more of a cameo appearance). To my knowledge, D.Va hasn't been in a single one of either.
Also Mei. She's had an entire event themed around her (Chinese New Year), a Brawl (Snowball Fight), and her own animated short. Around this time last year, we barely knew anything about her.
Edited by NubianSatyress
It's really not possible to say that any character has overshadowed anyone else, because they mostly an equal amount of focus... let me rephrase that: no character has gotten significantly more attention paid to them than anyone else by leaps and bounds.
The very nature of this game means that Breakout Character can't apply to any of the playable characters either.
When D.Va scores in Capture the Flag mode, she sings the 4 note triumphant jingle that plays. What trope would best cover that example? It's not quite breaking the fourth wall, and she has no Medium Awareness. I'm thinking of putting it under Leaning on the Fourth Wall like the other examples already listed.
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Roadhogs Berserk Button Doesn't make sense, I mean why would he not want to be compared to a pig? HIS NAME IS ROADHOG! His whole aesthetic is pig related, and he seems to like pigs. I kinda assumed the reason he beat up the thugs, was because they told him to be passive and do nothing ,not because they used the word piggy. I think someone needs to change the beserk button part of his page
Edited by LancerJayden Hide / Show Replies
Voice lines within the game also support that he hates being compared to a pig. This isn't something us Tropers came up with just based off of a comic that came out more than a year after the game and his character were released.
I looked though his voice lines and none of them seem to show him hate being compared to pigs. The closest might be "say bacon one more time" Thats seems more like he dosent like eating pork and since he has a No Pork patch that seems to be the case. So the berserk button still makes no sense.
Edited by LancerJayden
What im trying to say is besides the comic there isnt anything that i can find that supports him not liking being called piggy. In the comic the thug tells him to be quiet and passive which seems to be the thing that set off. I mean if he didn't want to be called piggy why would he Tattoo a pig on his stomach for everyone to see. Thats like catwoman being mad that someone compared her to a cat. If base your identity on an animal, people are going you compare to an animal. I think the berserk button needs to be fixed
Edited by LancerJayden
I agree it should be removed. I interpreted him beating up the thugs just because they told him to stay out of it.
Uni cat
Yeah, Although i wouldn't remove berserk button but change it to something like" he hates it people try to force him to be quiet and passive" or something like that im not good at phrasing
At the beginning of the comic he has this monologue "about how he hates the system" and having a thug who works for the goverment (queen) tell him to sit down and be quiet would probally piss him off. So yeah he seems to be more mad about someone much smaller then him try to tell him what to do, then the fact that he called him piggy.
Edited by LancerJayden
Ok Guys someone needs to remove or change the berserk button part of roadhog's page caus there is NOTHING that says he hates being called piggy. NOTHING. someone PLEASE FIX IT
In the comic narrative "piggy" being his berserk buttom doesn't make sense. The comic is about how Roadhog hates the world and the goverment, the queen is shown to not like mako. When he goes the bar junkrat is in trouble and tries to get help from roadhog the thug that works for the queen recognizes roadhog and tells him, to stay out of it and he wont tell the queen. He tells him to be quiet and passive, then roadhog beats him up, while he does call him piggy, the beginning of the comic doesn't connect to the piggy part at all. It seems to be that he likes being in control ,so when someone smaller then him who works for somebody he hates tries to tell him what to do he gets mad. This along with his chosen pig aesthetic is why i thing we should change of remove the berserk button, it just doesn't make sense. Itd appreciate it if we fixed it. thank you.
Nobody is stopping you, and it is kind of jerkish to think that someone else is going to after you want to see it changed so much.
Sorry if i sounded rude, im new and im not sure how to edit wikis. I also wasnt sure if im suppose to wait for someone to allow me permission, im sorry
Edited by LancerJayden
If you see something wrong on a wiki, just edit it. If you can use the edit button it means you are allowed to do so.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'm the one who added it as a berserk button, I put that there because I saw Roadhog become violently angry when one of the thugs used pig themed insults. I'm sorry that I was wrong, it was a simple mistake. In hindsight it was really stupid to add a pig comparison as a berserk button button because if he hated pig comparisons WHY WOULD HE GET A TATTOO OF A PIG.
Edited by Buck
Can I remove the King Koopa Copy entry for Roadhog? The two characters have nothing in common aside from having a rounder shape and being villains.
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Yeah, that trope has some pretty well defined qualifiers, including a general physical appearance.
.....
Zarya as both The Dragon and Unwitting Pawn. I have issues on these two, but I'll discuss this here first, if you don't mind.
First, The Dragon is more a villainous trope, and while Zarya is patriotic and serving Katya who has a shady behind-the-back activities, that doesn't make Katya a villainous character and Zarya her Dragon. Talon and Sombra still stood above Katya in terms of villainy. Sure, Katya lied with her hypocrisy, but... that doesn't seem like a villain material, a good guy CAN be a hypocrite as well. Zarya serving someone who has a shady backdoor deal won't make her villainous. Anyone agree with this?
Second, Unwitting Pawn. This may be just me, but the common scenario of Unwitting Pawn is that the employer actually has more nefarious plans, furthering their own ambition and using the employee to achieve it. This doesn't look like what's happening between Zarya and Katya, it sounded more like Katya sent out a genuine distress call that she needed help, no ulterior motives (except preserving her status, but I hardly see that as a bad thing) and Zarya complied. If that makes Zarya an Unwitting Pawn, does this mean that every employers who hired an employee to do their dirty work make the employee their Unwitting Pawn? I think this stems from how some people think that Katya's dirty little secret is so heinous that she must be some sort of diabolical mastermind. We haven't had that much of a confirmation about it. And do remember that her blackmailer, Sombra, also happens to be someone in the villains group that surprisingly has no sympathetic backstory and evil by herself just because she feels like it.
So... what do you think? Pull those out because of not fitting?
Edited by ChrisX Hide / Show Replies
Could we add The Rival as an Implied Trope between Winston and Soldier: 76? Two lines of dialogue indicate that the old leader of Overwatch and the new leader of Overwatch may not see eye-to-eye. If there's a better trope, let me know. For now, here's what I have in mind:
- The Rival: Implied with him and Soldier: 76. As the new leader of Overwatch, which runs illegally, Winston appears to have a bit of a feud with the old leader of Overwatch, which used to be proud prior to its initial disbandment. This is indicated by Soldier: 76 asking if Winston seriously thinks he can do the job he once had, to which Winston replies that someone has to do it. Additionally, Winston will tell Soldier: 76 that someone (likely Overwatch) will put an end to his illegal activities, and Soldier: 76 tells him that he is doing the exact same thing.
The Rival is a trope about ONE character who competes or opposes another character. It's not "rivalry".
And the two may have different viewpoints, but they aren't in a competition or against each other.
Could we add The Hero as a trope for Winston? He's being set up as this, being that he's the one who reinstates Overwatch, is implied that he'll take lead of the organization, appears the most in in-game trailers/shorts (he's starred in three of them, even Series Mascot Tracer only starred in two and had brief cameo in one). He's even the one who says "We are Overwatch!" at the end of the theatrical trailer, alluding to his hero status. It looks to me that Blizzard is setting Winston up as the main driving force for good in the game. Do you think it's too early to call? I just wanted to make sure.
It would look like this:
- The Hero: Blizzard is setting him up as this. As it stands, he's the one who reinstates Overwatch, is heavily implied that he'll take on the reins of leading said organization, and has appeared the most prominently in trailers/shorts that set him up as the driving force for good.
"setting him up" is assuming knowledge of future events. I would instead call it an Implied Trope.
On that note, I wouldn't say it's heavily implied. There's only one conversation that suggests it, but it's also contradicted by another line Soldier says.
Other than that, it seems fine. It's not certain, but there are hints.
I wouldn't say it's "contradicted". I think it's more along the lines of "Do you seriously think you can handle my job?", to which Winston replies with "It's a tough job, but someone has to do it". The line still implicates that Winston is taking charge of Overwatch. Point is, even if Soldier objects to it, he's not enthusiastic about the idea of Overwatch returning as even he doesn't consider himself a hero anymore. He likely views his days as an Overwatch member to be behind him, and I don't see Soldier going back to leading the organization. More likely, he'll be an associate — someone who helps out without officially being a member. Of course, we don't know that so I won't add that detail until we see it in action.
However, I'm just saying it looks like he's going to be the leader. It just makes the most sense and it's been suggested. I'll put it as an Implied Trope until it becomes confirmed.
Author.
I'm not talking about that line. I'm talking about the one where Soldier says, "It's my privilege to lead you all into battle."
And again, you're drifting into guessing territory. You've jumped way too many steps from "what we know" to "what we guess will happen ".
I don't think that means much of anything, really. I think it's hinted far more that Winston is the leader rather than 76 continuing after everything crumbled around him the first time.
Author.
Seriously?
You think Winston saying "We are Overwatch" means something, but not Soldier directly saying he's leading them into battle? That's being amazingly selective.
I also edited out most of what you added to the posted example. For future reference, it's very unfair to put an example up for discussion and then post an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT example afterward.
That's just Soldier saying that to any team correct? I don't think it has to do with Overwatch. That's why I said it probably didn't mean much.
Also, of course the final product would be different from the discussion sample. More context was added to make it fit better.
Author.
Okay, but you're basing this entire point on dialogue between Soldier and Winston, which can ALSO be said with any team that has them on it. We can't pick and choose what we think is canon and we think isn't.
And no, the "final product" of what you put here and what you put on the page should be the same, with additions brought to discussion BEFORE it's added.
The entire point to asking for feedback on the discussion page is to see if everyone agrees with the wording. If you simply change the wording or add "context" that wasn't discussed, then it's deceptive even if you didn't mean it be.
This topic is just so premature that there's no real point to discussing it at this point. There's nothing to add.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Yes it can be said on any team but the dialogue is between the two of them. Soldier questions whether Winston can take over his position, being that Overwatch crumbled the first time and has been made illegal, and probably doubts anyone could restore Overwatch to what is was if even he couldn't keep it from falling. However, to that Winston reaffirms that if he doesn't lead Overwatch, then who will? No one is would likely be willing or able to do so, and Talon would be free to reign further terror onto the world while completely unopposed. That's what I got out of their little exchange.
I'd say that implicates Winston is taking over as the leader of Overwatch. Do you agree?
Also, about the edits. Sorry if I was being deceptive, I just thought I'd add more context and make it look better. If any changes come up in the future when I ask, I'll be sure to post here just in case.
Author.
No, it doesn't imply anything. It could mean so much stuff. This is a WMG or a forum conversation. It doesn't belong here.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Actually, it implies a lot. But I will agree that this has gone too far, this discussion has went passed its original purpose because we had to argue about the implications of a line in-game.
Author.
should Winston be the Big Good since he's the current leader of Overwatch?