Discussion Characters / NeonGenesisEvangelionTheChildren

Ok care to explain the reverts you made?

Aside from the grammatical fixes and sentence restructuring - which ones do you mean in particular?

I noticed there is some Auska that now needs reveting.

I mean all your reverts. Grammer would be ok , but you removed tropes that had no reason to be removed, add details with no fact, and felt the need to reword some pats but omit others.

My edit was to correct that so explain why you reverted it please.

Depends on the trope you mean, which ones in particular do you agree with or what rewordings aren't right to you?

All the previous reverts you made from my edit I disagree with, there are also new edits with Askua you made I disagree with but start with the reverts.

I noticed a big issue with you is you tentd to reword things that don’t need it and add nothing to the edit by doing so. Also you tend to omit parts of a trope you reword. For example why reword die to fight when both are correct and one shows way more how far she would go. I’m also curious why you reverted UST, when they basically said the same thing.

You tend to delete tropes that don’t need it, such as ambiguous disorder or alpha bitch. Then there was a case for your studio bashing or mentions how Asuka fans affected somthing when there is no factual proof and it clearly being a matter of YMMV.

Ultimately it seem the only incorrect tropes where ones you disagreed with, because I couldn’t find a valid reason for any trope to be removed. So if you could go step for step through the reverts you made and explain what you did it, that would be a good start.

As for what I agreed with that would be literally everything I didn’t edit, so I’m curious why would you ask that.

We can do one by one. Consider "ambiguous disorder" being there, what is the justification behind this? The existing entry suggested it was because Rei was somewhere "on the spectrum", but this was neither suggested or implied in the story, nor does it come from the Word of God.

Because in Rei's case, her lack of expression is explained by her isolated background and dehumanization at NERV, leaving the "disorder" quite unambiguous. I think this is self-evident, and I think many of the removed Tropes were the result of bloat and over-active adding.

Um no not really. Her lack of social skills show a clear case of Ambiguous Disorder. Her background may have contributed, but we don’t know any exact reason. I do agree she was not on a spectrum, so I reworded it. But you felt the need to delete it anyway.

Well, since everyone has some form of psychological disorder in this show, shouldn't we add it to everyone? Rei's (as are everyone elses) lack of social skills are explained and are therefore not ambiguous, leaving little room for the trope. The existing justification for the trope was poor and with it now that you've also deleted it, what is there left except simply having it there? There's already more specific tropes for Rei (and other characters) that relate to mental disorders, and having both unambigious tropes and ambigious tropes would be contradicting.

EDIT: I took the liberty of removing the YMMV Trope you mentioned earlier (Broken Base).

Um yes nearly every character has a disorder...that’s part of the show. Did you even read the edit? I didn’t just delete it I added a new reason. And the previous example was just about as poor as you’re justification for removing it.

And there is no other trope on the page that contradicts it. Unless there is a definite issue you can’t contidict it, so try again.

You forgot

whole, though this has changed somewhat recently due to the unwelcome changes of Studio Khara to Rei's character.

Since no other character on the page has the Ambiguous Disorder trope, I think that speaks for itself - doesn't it? L Ike I mentioned earlier, the disorder she has isn't at all ambiguous or unspoken of. Yes, I did read the reason for adding it back, but "Famously so." or "lack of social skills" or the idea that it was "averted" (a contradiction) doesn't sound like anything in the Trope page at all. The trope really has nothing to do there.

Ok clearly you did it read it correctly it said “* Ambiguous Disorder: Famously so. She definatly lacks social skills. Averted with some spin offs dipicting her as a Genki Girl.” . Nothing in that statement is incorrect. Even famously so is true both in universe and among fandom. Also unless they have a clear medical diagnosis for her did order than yes it’s ambiguous. Your argument makes no sense.

On another note if the other characters don’t have it, doesn’t mean you can’t fix that. You have yet to give a actual reason and we still aren’t off the first topic.

Looks like I read it right. Im sorry but that is mere opinion that isnt even true. If that was the case you and I would not be having this discussion.

I have given you several reasons by now which you have not refuted. Saying that "the fandom thinks so" is not an argument because you only mean yourself. The background for Rei serves to make her personality explained.

The trope stays gone. It has nothing to do there unless it has an actual place in the story. As it is, its just YMMV.

Every explaination you have given has been refuteted. No it’s not YMMV, most of what you put was. If you didn’t like the way it was worded fine. You seem to fail to understand what the trope even means. However her lack of social skills and quirks is known both, in universe and out. Having part of you’re background explained doesn’t explain what you’re disorder is. It explains what contributed to it.

Further more if you had bothered looking at examples for Ambiguous Disorder you you see this:

“Most of the main Neon Genesis Evangelion cast would probably count - it comes with the Dysfunction Junction nature of the show. Whether they have anything diagnosable, though, is anyone's guess. Their highly traumatic backstories certainly don't help, at any rate.”

Clearly you are the only one who with the belief, it is incorrect. So once again you’re argument holds no water, you may want to try something else.

Edit: I removed some major YMMV you left, mostly because there is no real major argument you could make to back it up with fact.

Concerning the Ambiguous Disorder, I stand my ground. You haven't actually refuted any explanation nor defended yours.

If you read the description of Ambiguous Disorder, it only says they would "probably" count and can't be determined to actually have any diagnosable disorders. That in itself is good enough reason to have it removed from *both* articles, as it contains essentially an admission that it's YMMV. Striving for accuracy and quality is important. In these cases it's important to look at precedence and usage: consider a character like Batman The Character - a person with some strange quirks and lacking social skill, but still - no Ambiguous Disorder. This is a pattern that repeats itself for characters that have an established reason to act like they do.

Arguably, it's fitting for none of them because their behavior is sufficiently explained in the story, to the point where injecting an ambiguous, unnamed disorder is not necessary. Evangelion should not be a "special case", because we've got far better tropes to describe their behavioral quirks - such as Inferiority Superiority Complex and many others.

This is the reason I say Ambiguous Disorder is not only inaccurate and wrong, but also redundant. The page describes in detail the type of quirks, which makes "ambiguous" obsolete.

Re: The edits: I'll check on that.

No need to check with the Edits. A Mod agreed you where Asuka bashing.

You have no ground to sand on. Tthe page literally singles out the characters for example. If you want other characters to have it with them as well fine. But to say Rei does not need have the trope at all is incorrect.

Just because some of her quirks are described mean nothing. She has Mental issues that are undisclosed. Just because we see what helped contribute to them means nothing. At the end they still keep the exact nature of the mental problems Ambiguous.

Utter nonsense. You keep ignoring what I've put forth and you ignore the precedence for using the trope.

You have yet to make a valid point. Every point I made dismisses you. Even the trope page dismisses you.

It’s clearly not utter nonsense if someone else can see it.

Ok so after talking with both Willbyr and The Amazing Blachman, it’s agreed 1) you are editing with a agenda and 2) there was nothing wrong with my edits. So on that note this disscusion is over and I will begain reverting them back.

So it shouldn't be listed for all three of them?

I wouldn't mess with it, myself. If something of serious impact had been hinted at but not revealed, that might be worth a mention, but aside from the implications in the manga that Shinji's relatives were neglectful of him, that's it.

That was hardly an implication, there were actual scenes showing the neglect. I dont think any of them besides Rei qualify since it is made a plot point that her past has been erased.