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I just removed this bullet point from \'\'Film/TheLordOfTheRings\'\' movie example:
** Which is more inappropriate considering the fact Tolkien\'s Tengwar script is 100% phonetic (and devised as such by the highly qualified philologist Tolkien was) to render the sounds of \'\'\'any\'\'\' possible language - you can write anything in English or any other language in Tengwar and it will be easily understood by someone who knows the script.
Other than this being superfluous to the use of the trope in the movies, this is wrong in itself. If you\'ll let me be a nerd and rant about Tengwar:
Tengwar is NOT a phonetic script which will allow anyone to pronounce right a text written it in (let alone understand it, which is laughable). It was certainly meant to be used as a phonetic script, but within a given language: it\'s actually a featural script without \'\'de jure\'\' defined sound values for the symbols (but many became \'\'de facto\'\'; see below). The relation between English P and B (which are the same sound, except voiceless and voiced) is represented; as well as that between P and F (a stop and a fricative) and P and T (bilabial and dental). But nothing stops any language from using the relations in the script to represent any given relation in the language: the Quenya cluster NGW (as in English \'\'anguish\'\') is spelt with the same letter as the English G.
Fair enough, \
** Which is more inappropriate considering the fact Tolkien\'s Tengwar script is 100% phonetic (and devised as such by the highly qualified philologist Tolkien was) to render the sounds of \'\'\'any\'\'\' possible language - you can write anything in English or any other language in Tengwar and it will be easily understood by someone who knows the script.
Other than this being superfluous to the use of the trope in the movies, this is wrong in itself. If you\'ll let me be a nerd and rant about Tengwar:
Tengwar is NOT a phonetic script which will allow anyone to pronounce right a text written it in (let alone understand it, which is laughable). It was certainly meant to be used as a phonetic script, but within a given language: it\'s actually a featural script without \'\'de jure\'\' defined sound values for the symbols (but many became \'\'de facto\'\'; see below). The relation between English P and B (which are the same sound, except voiceless and voiced) is represented; as well as that between P and F (a stop and a fricative) and P and T (bilabial and dental). But nothing stops any language from using the relations in the script to represent any given relation in the language: the Quenya cluster NGW (as in English \'\'anguish\'\') is spelt with the same letter as the English G.
Fair enough, \
to:
\\\'\\\'\\\'Edit:\\\'\\\'\\\' ... D\\\'oh. I posted my rant in the wrong place and can\\\'t remove this post.
Changed line(s) 9 from:
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Fair enough, \
to:
Fair enough, \\\"by the Third Age\\\" (the time of LOTR) many of the relations in the script had settled down and were more-or-less consistently applied to phonetic relations in any language (say, a P or T were so throughout; also B, D, F... outside of Quenya, which was the first language spelt in Tengwar). Still, there was a lot of allowed variation across languages, so that\\\'s far from a truly international phonetic script.
Finally, which makes this bullet point most egregious, Tolkien \\\'\\\'allowed\\\'\\\' \\\"orthographical\\\" use of Tengwar: in-universe apparently mostly for sound changes where the spelling wasn\\\'t changed, but in real life he often used a Tengwar mode for English that represented the normal ortography (though not in all points: the difference between TH as in \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'thin\\\'\\\' was represented, as well as mute E\\\'s).
So yeah, this is pretty much completely wrong.
Finally, which makes this bullet point most egregious, Tolkien \\\'\\\'allowed\\\'\\\' \\\"orthographical\\\" use of Tengwar: in-universe apparently mostly for sound changes where the spelling wasn\\\'t changed, but in real life he often used a Tengwar mode for English that represented the normal ortography (though not in all points: the difference between TH as in \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'thin\\\'\\\' was represented, as well as mute E\\\'s).
So yeah, this is pretty much completely wrong.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
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Tengwar is NOT a phonetic script which will allow anyone to pronounce right a text written it in (let alone understand it, which is laughable). It was certainly meant to be used as a phonetic script, but within a given language: it\'s actually a featural script without \'\'de jure\'\' defined sound values for the symbols (but many became \'\'de facto\'\'; see below). The relation between English P and B (which are the same sound, except voiceless and voiced) is represented; as well as that between P and F (a stop and a fricative) and P and T (bilabial and dental). But nothing stops any language from using the relationships in the script to represent any given relationship in the language: the Quenya cluster NGW (as in English \'\'anguish\'\') is spelt with the same letter as the English G.
to:
Tengwar is NOT a phonetic script which will allow anyone to pronounce right a text written it in (let alone understand it, which is laughable). It was certainly meant to be used as a phonetic script, but within a given language: it\\\'s actually a featural script without \\\'\\\'de jure\\\'\\\' defined sound values for the symbols (but many became \\\'\\\'de facto\\\'\\\'; see below). The relation between English P and B (which are the same sound, except voiceless and voiced) is represented; as well as that between P and F (a stop and a fricative) and P and T (bilabial and dental). But nothing stops any language from using the relations in the script to represent any given relation in the language: the Quenya cluster NGW (as in English \\\'\\\'anguish\\\'\\\') is spelt with the same letter as the English G.
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
Fair enough, \
to:
Fair enough, \\\"by the Third Age\\\" (the time of LOTR) many of the relations in the script had settled down and were more-or-less consistently applied to phonetic relations in any language (say, a P or T were so throughout; also B, D, F... outside of Quenya, which was the first language spelt in Tengwar). Still, there was a lot of allowed variation across languages, so that\\\'s far from a truly international phonetic script.
Finally, which makes this bullet point most egregious, Tolkien \\\'\\\'allowed\\\'\\\' \\\"orthographical\\\" use of Tengwar: in-universe apparently mostly for sound changes that were kept in writing, but in real life he often used a Tengwar mode for English that represented the normal ortography (though not in all points: the difference between TH as in \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'thin\\\'\\\' was represented, as well as mute E\\\'s).
So yeah, this is pretty much completely wrong.
Finally, which makes this bullet point most egregious, Tolkien \\\'\\\'allowed\\\'\\\' \\\"orthographical\\\" use of Tengwar: in-universe apparently mostly for sound changes that were kept in writing, but in real life he often used a Tengwar mode for English that represented the normal ortography (though not in all points: the difference between TH as in \\\'\\\'this\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'thin\\\'\\\' was represented, as well as mute E\\\'s).
So yeah, this is pretty much completely wrong.
