[005]
Janko_Walski
Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
to:
As par on what we already discussed in private, let me explain myself in public:
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome. At least in case of [=HoI=] II and III mechanized were much more balanced when it comes to production costs, so even if they showed up later down the tech-tree, it was worth to make them for the extra punch, as net production costs and old system of upgrading units made them actually cheaper than still making motorised. Not so much in IV.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome. At least in case of [=HoI=] II and III mechanized were much more balanced when it comes to production costs, so even if they showed up later down the tech-tree, it was worth to make them for the extra punch, as net production costs and old system of upgrading units made them actually cheaper than still making motorised. Not so much in IV.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
to:
As par on what we already discussed in private, let me explain myself in public:
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome. At least in case of [=HoI=] II and III mechanized were much more balanced when it comes to production costs, so even if they showed up later down the tech-tree, it was worth to make them for the extra punch, as net production costs made them actually cheaper than still making motorised. Not so much in IV.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome. At least in case of [=HoI=] II and III mechanized were much more balanced when it comes to production costs, so even if they showed up later down the tech-tree, it was worth to make them for the extra punch, as net production costs made them actually cheaper than still making motorised. Not so much in IV.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
to:
As par on what we already discussed in private, let me explain myself in public:
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the production line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results per day:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
And of course you have to research mechanized first, with even tier I being stated for 1940, giving a hefty ahead-of-time penalty. Even if your country doesn\'t have motorised tech too, it can be easily developed from the moment the game starts, as there is no ahead penalty and it\'s easy to research by itself, while all the countries lacking motorised get a focus to research it even faster (75% faster to be exact).
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
to:
As par on what we already discussed in private, let me explain myself in public:
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the productiion line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the productiion line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and three factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
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As par on what we already discussed in private, let me explain myself in public:
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the productiion line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and tree factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
I do agree mechanized is stat-wise MasterOfAll. Because it really is great. My point is how impractical it is to make them in terms of production, hence why I\'ve moved them to AwesomeButImpractical. A single \"unit\" of mechanized vehicle costs 12/13/14 production (depending on tier). A single factory provides 5 points of production. Meaning you need to dedicate 3 factories to even get one of those vehicles per day. And you need 50 vehicles to form a brigade. You want to have at least 4 of such brigades in your tank divisions, totalling at 200 vehicles, or 2400/2600/2800 production. And \'\'every single factory dedicated to production of mechanized\'\' requires large quantities of steel, oil and rubber - \"only\" 2/1/1 for tier 1, but 4/2/1 for tier 3. And there is of course production efficiency itself, since just starting the productiion line of new equipment provides you with anything from 10 (in case of concentrated industry tech tree) to slightly more (15,20,25 and so on, up to 35) efficiency (in case of dispersed industry). Meaning the production line will take considerable amount of time before getting to described above \"1 vehicle per day out of 3 factories\", while eating resources AND using said factories.
So in case of described above example, let\'s even ignore production efficiency (which is a factor for about 250-400 first days of production, depending on tech tree choices) for the sake of simple comparison:
* Tier I mechanized vehicle takes 12 production and tree factories to provide 1.25 vehicles per day, at a price of 6/3/3 of steel/oil/rubber. At tier III (where it absolutely rocks) the same 3 factories will provide 1.06 vehicles per day, at a price of 12/6/3 of steel/oil/rubber.
* Trucks needed for motorised take 2.5 production costs, so a single factory makes 2 of them, at a lousy price of 1/1/1 of steel/oil/rubber.
So when we use 3 factories to build either, we have following results:
* 1 motorized vehicle at a resource price of 6/3/3 (tier 1) or at price of 12/6/3 (tier 3)
* 6 trucks at resource price of 3/3/3
This also ignores the fact motorised (trucks) have speed of 12 and with proper techs 13.2, meaning they are really damn fast and can keep up with light tanks AND use [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher motorised rocket launchers]], while mechanized start at speed of 8 and gain +2 speed with each tier. This means they gain speed they can\'t even properly utilise, as medium tanks (the \"company\" for mechanized) stop at speed of 10 and mechanized are just too damn expensive for making cheap, very fast \"diver\" divisions of light tanks to perform raids deep within enemy territory and create pockets for big stacks of enemy divisions.
Hence why AwesomeButImpractical. I guess it could fall into CoolButInefficient, but considering super-heavy tanks, super-heavy battleships and rockets are already under AwesomeButImpractical, I just tucked it in. Because while I do see the statistical power of mechanized, I also see the production costs. If I can for the same production have 6 times more of vehicles that are tiny bit inferior (trucks) and save huge amount of resources, not to mention skipping few techs to research, then unless I\'m playing as USA, there is literally no point to bother, as the production costs are simply not worth the final outcome.
PS
The only thing mechanized TRULY excell at is defense. Now, why would you use your tank divisions (with mechanized) for defense? Especially since regular foot infantry goes hand-to-hand with mechanized when it comes to defense, while you can construct hundreds of infantry weapons per day and equip entire divisions with your weekly production, rather than gaining a handful of half-trucks.
