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Ask the Tropers:
resolved Papyrus char page (undertale) Videogame
How do i make a self demonstrating article for him? Sans has one so i feel like Papyrus deserves one too.
resolved Self-help book index
Is there some index on tvtropes about self-help books? I have other websites I can check, but it has scifi literature, fantasy, young adult, mystery, horror, etc. so I guess there was this too.
resolved Auto Erotic Troping: Example Web Original
Recently stumbled upon this page which was blatantly and unashamedly made by the author in question, and it was recommended that I raise the issue here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/DarkFlameWolf
Is there any way we can tidy this up, or least make it a bit less...self-congratulatory? They've even included two completely unnecessary 'accomplishments' folders, and the entire article just reads like self-promotion. Someone has already deleted all the links to their social media pages, but it's still a very unprofessional article which I think deviates just a little too far from community standards.
resolved Image Caption Pickin'
Is the Image Pickin' thread the place to talk with other Tropers about adjusting the caption of a page image? Let me be clear; I'm not talking about changing a page image itself. That is very clearly what Image Pickin' is for. I'm talking about suggesting a change to a page image caption; while I'm quite sure that there's no policy against unilateral caption tweaking (and I've done so in the past — for instance, I was the one who added the caption
for the Mistaken for Racist article's page), in the instance I want to do right now, I think it is best to ask for community feedback before going ahead.
Specifically, what I want to do right now is add a note to the caption for the page image for That Came Out Wrong. The image and caption in question entail Leo of VG Cats being perceived as a weirdo for loitering around a school with the intention of "meeting kids" — with the caption being "He should have clarified that he wants to "meet" them on StreetPass." However, I had a bit of a Fridge Logic moment about this — most schools wouldn't want their students using a Nintendo 3DS for the same reasons they frown on cellphone usage (basically: it's a distraction from learning). So I felt like I should add a note to the caption to the effect of "It's not like a school would be the best place for StreetPassing anyways.", but I have a few reservations on whether or not this actually enhances the caption, so I figured I should ask for advice first.
Edited by Bomber-Boiresolved Questionable comment Music
I found this entry on Irony.Music:
- Luther Vandross is known for singing some of the most well-known R&B love songs of the 1980s and 1990s. He himself, however, never married, never had children, and never even had any known romantic relationships with women (it's possible he could have been gay).
The part in bold seems to be speculation on a real-life person's personal life. Is this the kind of thing that's allowed?
resolved Are these BB entries valid?
Originally posted on the BB thread.
These other examples from BrokenBase.Touken Ranbu are kinda shakey so I want to here what others think (the one about the fan reception was deleted):
- In July 2015, an update changed several charactersnote Izuminokami, Ookurikara, and Doudanuki from tachi to uchigatana. Naturally, fans were divided over this change, with some not really minding while others were unhappy, considering the change a big downgrade for the characters; however, their tachi-grade stats weren't nerfed, making them a strong uchigatana trio. Especially Izuminokami, who currently holds the position as the strongest uchigatana. unsure
- How the Revisionists are portrayed in and out of game counts. Some are fine with their monsterous characterization, since it brings more focus on the Saniwa's swords and leaves less room to root for the empire like what happened with the Abyssal Fleet in KanColle. Others argue that the Revisionists barely have character at all, and treating them as little more than cannon fodder takes away from exploring how the factions operate and the possible implications of how they came to be (See Fanon below). unsure (also has a "see below" mark)
- The announcement of the two anime adaptations had mixed reactions. Some people fear that the adaptations will not be very good (especially considering the low opinions many fans have of the KanColle anime), while others are happy about the prospect of their favorite swords getting animated. Another reason why a part of the fandom (mostly overseas fans) are against the adaptations is because they fear how the new Touken Ranbu fans will be. It was notable how they held the popularity of the franchise back, however, with two upcoming anime, chances are pretty high the bigger mass will discover Touken Ranbu. unsure
- Related to above, will the Saniwa (and by extension, what will the Saniwa's gender will be) appear in the anime or not has sparked debates, similar to the adaptation of KanColle. While the saniwa of Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru sparked some debate over whether or not they should have been depicted in full or just have another sword take the role (amusingly, similar to KanColle's own adaptation), Ufotable's version for Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu ended up in some wondering why the saniwa wasn't depicted as off screen like the Hanamaru one, why they looked like a little boy, and whether the decision to go for an androgynous look and not confirm either way instead of featuring the more popular interpretations of the character was an example of pandering, chickening out, a good idea, or something else entirely.
- While Kiwame has been well-received by most players as a way to upgrade the weak tantous to be useful on later maps, some are concerned by the changes in their lines that focus more on that Saniwa's attention and less on their own character tics. In a particular case, many fans of Imanotsurugi are reluctant to give him the Kiwame upgrade because it retcons a huge part of his character, and tragically so. unsure
- However, as later swords got remodels, it seems this trait is only reserved for tantous only. Justified, as tantous are supposed to be protection weapons. natter
- In the Western fanbase, there are quite a few vocal fans that openly question the morality of shipping the younger looking toudan, particularly the tantou, with the swords that are clearly intended to be adults, believing it to be disgusting despite the actual ages of the swords who in reality are well over centuries old; some of the younger looking sword boys are older than the characters that look like adults. There are fans that argue back that the age they appear to be is irrelevant due to the reasoning mentioned. The JP fanbase generally doesn't make a big deal out of this but that doesn't stop the debates from coming up. Valid but do think it might be better as Values Dissonance
- Now that the first seasons of the Anime adaptations have concluded, which one was superior? Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru or Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu? In Japan, it's made abundantly clear that Fans tend to prefer Hanamaru's adaptation over Katsugekinote and the dvd/bluray sales only hammer this home but in the west it's more divided. The below examples are arguing with themselves
- Some say Katsugeki was better because it supposedly had more of a plot, "relevant" character arcs, played up the oft-forgotten "protecting history" angle, and to some felt more like a Touken Ranbu anime in adapting the more dramatic aspects of the swords' backstoriesnote mainly only with the two leads Izuminokami and Mutsunokami, plus tritagonist Horikawa; the rest of the squad, despite being a part of the main cast, did not really get much development or arc focus and decry Hanamaru as "the Pixiv version" that makes the series look no different than any other Slice of Life series, and overexaggerates the characters and their arcs to match with fan perceptions (leading to events like Yamatonokami's controversial desicion to stop Okita from getting injured at the Ikeda-ya). Some also feel like the series crams too many characters in to make sure nobody feels left out, at the expense of the main pair's arc and development, up until the end.
- However, others argue that Katsugeki was a soulless bore of an adaptation whose only saving grace was it being visually impressive, and that it didn't live up to what it promised/was hyped up to be. In comparison, fans of Hanamaru say that this series felt like it was made for the fans, fun to watch, took an Ensemble Cast approach thus giving all fans more time to see their faves instead of staying focused on one (and to a VERY LESSER degree, two) sword group and was supposedly more faithful to the game and characterization; whereas Katsugeki took various liberties, particularly with their citadel's lore (the multiple Konnosukes in one citadel and being able to only send two swords at a time back in history at one point, in particular) and characterization/dynamics. People who prefer Hanamaru often refer to Katsugeki as a "Fate/stay night with a Touken Ranbu skin" anime and various other snarky nicknames involving that franchise due to their similarities in animation and other things ufotable lifted from their previous Fate adaptations.
- There are some fans who say they like both adaptations but lean more towards one, and those who say that both adaptations sucked or didn't like the heavy Shinsengumi focus on both series' leads (two Okita swords in Hanamaru, two Hijikata swords in Katsugeki) and their commonality of attempting to prevent their masters' most famous historical injuries. Some other fans tend to prefer the Stage play, Musical and Manga adaptations over both, while others just prefer the original game and fan created content.
- Lastly, there are fans who whole heartily liked both adaptations or felt that both adaptations fulfilled their purpose of what they were adapted to be like with Hanamaru being the Slice of Life anime it was promised to be and Katsugeki being the action oriented other half.
- The English translation of the game divided fans. For one thing, the website it was hosted on was largely known for ecchi and hentai games, so playing the game made certain fans uncomfortable, not only for the porn ads that would surround the game window, but for the sheer absurdity of such a tame game about men being hosted in such a place. For another, many fans took issue with the incredibly liberal translation, which often changed the characterisations of the boys, and contained many spelling and grammar errors. Some fans refuse to touch the English version thanks to all of these issues, while others think that the issues are minor and are just glad the game got an official translation at all. maybe valid
- The shipping of swords who are brothers can cause controversy, with one side claiming that it's incest and therefore immoral, and the other side countering that fiction has nothing to do with a writer or consumer's morality and therefore what a person ships doesn't matter. The issue gets muddied further by the nonhuman natures of the Toudan, and that what exactly makes a pair of swords "brothers" varies from character to character. Much like the tantou issue above, this argument is exclusive to the Western side of the fandom due to Values Dissonance. As squicky as it is, its is a fairly common talking point in a decent amount of fandoms so this is not a new issue
- Over the years, fans have become conflicted about the statuses of the Series Mascots (Mikazuki Munechika, Yamanbagiri Kunihiro, Kashuu Kiyomitsu, Kasen Kanesada, Hachisuka Koutetsu, and Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki) and how much emphasis the franchise places on them for what they assume is for no other reason than because they're the mascots: Unsure and violates the Examples Are Not Recent rule
- Dissatisfaction with Mikazuki's "special positions" has grown over time because of his frequent appearances in merchandise, attention from advertisers, assurance of an important role in every adaptation, appearance on the cover of anthologies, and other benefits. Also, unlike the five starter swords, he is not limited to being advertised as part of a group, meaning he is often promoted independently of the Sanjou, Tenka Goken, and, on occasion, the starter swords, leading to accusations of preferential treatment, especially over the other Tenka Goken who some believe he is treated as better than, despite there being no evidence of this in the story content that features the Tenka Goken.note While most works focus on Mikazuki Munechika due to his mascot status, every work treats the Tenka Goken group as a whole as special because of their status, even the original game itself. Others have argued back that Mikazuki showing up is justifiable and inevitable because of his status as one of the most recognizable characters and that his appearances don't take away from focus from other characters in the franchise, as he often isn't even the main character of the adaptations he appears in, with the exceptions being the live-action movies and Kabuki, due to the works either featuring an Ensemble Cast or focusing on some other character (ironically usually being some other overused Touken Danshi). There have also been some accusations of hypocrisy on the part of critics, as some other non-mascots like Tsurumaru Kuninaga and the Shinsengumi swords have shown up almost as often in merch and just as often in adaptations without facing the same heat that Mikazuki does because they aren't outright regarded as mascot characters.
- Yamanbagiri Kunihiro has also received criticism over the years, particularly following the announcement of the stage play's anime adaptation, due to his frequent appearance in adaptations, to the point where the only major adaptation he has not appeared in is Kabuki, making him more prominent than even the equally popular Kashuu Kiyomitsu. Like with Mikazuki, fans have argued about preferential treatment because of his popularity and a desire to see other swords promoted more, especially among the five starter swords, as, with the exception of Kashuu Kiyomitsu, the Mutsunokami, Kasen, and especially Hachisuka have made far fewer appearances and most of their advertising comes from being advertised as a part of the five starter swords group rather than because of their individual characters (Although Mutsunokami has been a little better off in recent years than to the introduction of the Jouishishi).
- Kashuu Kiyomitsu receives this as well, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent because he appears in less adaptations unless it somehow relates to the equally oversaturated Shinsengumi group (the first Touken Ranbu Musical being an exception). However, his Spotlight-Stealing Squad tendencies have been highlighted by fans who have watched the musicals (not helped by the fact that his actor is incredibly popular, not just the character, giving the production more reason to promote him over others), and the anthologies that are impossible to get through without at least three chapters that concentrate primarily on Kashuu and his Shinsengumi comrade. Fans of the other five starter swords have also pointed out just how long his Special Investigation event is compared to the other starter swords, leading to accusations of bias.
Any thoughts?
Edited by Ayumi-chanresolved Rules Check: Can FlameBait be potholed in trope descriptions referencing the concept?
From Drama Bomb:
This sentence is problematic, because it brings up a controversial issue unnecessarily and without warning. I think it can be fixed by making the sentence pothole to Flame Bait instead of referencing any specific inflammatory topic.
I would have done this myself, but I know there's rules against potholing to sensitive tropes. I brought this to the ROCEJ thread [1]
. ~Azorius 24 responded with a specific suggestion on how to fix this sentence, which looks good to me, but they don't know if potholing to Flame Bait is allowed either.
resolved Unusual film title plus a bracket question?
I found the film called Wolf and for some reason its called "Film » Wolf (Mike Nichols)" rather than the "Film » Wolf (1994)", when usually other films/or series have "year" within their brackets. I don't exactly have any issues or problems with that movie title namespace, I'm just merely curious why the title "Film » Wolf (Mike Nichols)" itself was allowed, due to how it seems unusual having a real-life director's name in a bracket instead of using a existing year "1994"?
Putting aside from my admittedly a silly question from above, how do I precisely create a film title with a year in it, for example like this type of film Double Dragon, which has a year "1994" in that bracket? Assuming if I manage to successfully launch any film tropes with their approval and permission from the "New Work Page Workshop Thread
" in a probable future?
resolved Requesting list cuts on Survival Horror
Hello,
The Survival Horror description is lots of words yet little and contradictory content. This is generally not a problem for me because I can get definitions for survival horror off-site, but then there are four lists on the page that create extra confusion. I was wondering if I could get permission here to cut out some entries and move others.
I would like permission to delete the entire list except for the following entries that I believe to be specific (enough) to survival horror:
- Ammunition Conservation
- Apocalyptic Log
- Booby Trap
- Closed Circle
- Controllable Helplessness
- Cower Power
- Drought Level of Doom
- Early Game Hell
- Emergency Weapon
- Injured Self-Drag
- Inventory Management Puzzle
- Resources Management Gameplay
- Stealth-Based Mission
- Story Bread Crumbs
- Tank Controls
Obviously more can be kept, but I believe that the list as is serves no purpose.
Others on the list are as curious to me as some entries on in the survival horror list proper. Batman: Arkham Asylum is a Beat 'em Up and most of the description is how Batman is the horror that the mooks need to survive. This has nothing to do with survival horror as a theme-gameplay hybrid genre. Subnautica and The Stomping Land are survival games with a horror element, but they're not survival horror. Is Tomb Raider on the list because of Atlantis? True, creepy level, but that alone doesn't even make it action horror. And with Homeworld: Cataclysm, Total War: Attila, and XCOM, the horror element is doubtful and otherwise they're just strategy games. Can these at least be removed?
resolved Real-life deaths on Tearjerker pages - yay or nay?
I was just checking out the Vinesauce Tearjerker page, and last year someone removed two entries saying that "real life deaths should not be included in Tearjerker pages".
To a point, I can agree. Like if Max Von Sydow was in a movie back in 1978, and someone added his death to the Tearjerker page for that movie when he passed away decades later - yeah, that'd be a major stretch. But this particular instance has me scratching my head.
The entries that were removed pertained to a dog named Molly, who was euthanized due to her health failing, and a community member named Vappyvap 88, who passed away in 2020 due to complications from COVID.
I'm not going to go into elaborate detail about Molly - I don't agree with cutting the entry, since the decision to have her put down was discussed during a stream and clearly had a lot of emotional weight attached to it - making it eligible as a Tearjerker moment for the Vinesauce stream imo - but I'll leave the issue be.
But I do want to talk about Vappyvap 88, because he collaborated with Vinny (one of the Vinesauce streamers) for years. He spent time archiving Vinny's stream VO Ds on his own time, which led to the creation of an official VOD channel on You Tube that Vappy ran in collaboration with Vinny. He eventually stepped down, with Vinny hiring a replacement manager to run the channel, but to a point he was an official collaborator - down to being listed on the Vinesauce characters page alongside the main streamers and other collaborators.
People knew who he was. He was a community member, and his contributions helped to grow the stream and offer more content to the community. And while it was mentioned briefly in passing on the stream - it was extremely upsetting to learn that he had passed away, as a longtime community member.
The reason I feel so strongly about this is because streaming tends to blur the lines between "the stream" as a consumable media product, and real life. Streamers are characters up to a point, but real life hardships do occur and can affect the emotional tone of a stream.
And while I can understand the logic behind keeping real life deaths out of a work's tearjerker page, Vappyvap 88 was involved in one facet of the broader Vinesauce operation. To a point, he was a part of the stream. And it seems callous to remove an entry talking about his death, though I'm clearly biased.
So that's why I'm bringing it to Ask the Tropers. Personally, I see the sense in discouraging real-life entries on a work's Tearjerker pages; point out the tribute in Star Trek Beyond to Anton Yelchin, rather than describing the young star's untimely death which was removed from the media itself, that sort of thing. But streaming, as a form of web video, has a bit more of a connection to the real world - and real world tragedies, like the death of a pet that the audience has heard about for years, or the death of a prominent community member and long-term stream collaborator, will matter to the audience and likely come up during the course of the stream itself.
What do you guys think? And if push comes to shove, and the actual stream clip can be tracked down and linked as an emotional moment - does that qualify an event like this to be included on a page like the stream's Tearjerker page? At that point it would be discussing a moment that occurs during the stream, though the general tone and context of the clip would have to factor in, of course.
resolved Please stop locking my posts
It's just a duplicate image on "Brave the Ride" Plot and Recap.Sponge Bob Square Pants S 5 E 6 Roller Cowards Bucket Sweet Bucket! And yet the mods keep locking my threads regarding that. That just screams misunderstanding!
I'll give everyone a choice here: Either you guys take care of the duplicate image, or I'll pull the "Brave the Ride" Plot image myself.
resolved Causes of death on Famous Last Words Pages Film
On the Famous Last Words for the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it seems that the cause of death of the person speaking the last words is included with the names of the person. Most other pages don't do that and some of the example come across as rather lengthy and unnecessary. Here's an example Agent Antoine "Trip" Triplett, who smashes the Obelisk to try to stop whatever was happening, but thinks that Skye was fatally petrified and that he made a Senseless Sacrifice. He himself ultimately gets Taken for Granite and shattered before he Skye break free and reawaken as the Inhuman, Quake.. If the page is just meant to show the last words, is all that really necessary?
resolved Should we prioritize Canon Names for protagonists that can be named anything by the player? Videogame
What's the standard here? In I Was a Teenage Exocolonist, the game suggests naming your character Solane/Solana/Solanaceae, implying that either of the three's their Canon Name if you don't name them yourself. However, in all its pages, they have been referred to as either "Sol", "the protagonist", "the MC", or "you". Do we stick to one name/identifier for them, or are all of them "correct"?
resolved Do self-demonstrating pages get Laconics? Print Comic
Laconic.The Joker is a laconic for SelfDemonstrating.The Joker. Is this allowed?
resolved Serious Business in SCP Foundation Web Original
Yesterday, Doctor Nemesis added following as example of Serious Business.
I removed as being too generic. They add modified version today
And claims that it's no worse than the first entry.
Should it be removed again, and if so, should the first one removed as well?
Note that its entry in SeriousBusiness.Web Original has none of that. It has only one In-Universe example (there were two, but I've just removed the first one).
resolved Can I make new Image Picking thread on same topic with old one in morgue?
On Lethal Joke Item again. There used to be one thread, but it got locked and the trope itself got TRS treatment. Now that's done and it's clear that the image, despite being picked by IP, doesn't illustrate the trope (and possibly misuse, hard to tell since the entries of the image source are ZCE).
Edited by Kuruniresolved Questionable cut reason for CowboyBebopAtHisComputer/ZeroPunctuation
A while back, I restored the cut Critical Research Failure page for Zero Punctuation under Cowboy BeBop at His Computer, since the former ended up being disambiguated.
Since then however, the page got cut with a reason that I really don't think adds up, nor do I think received much in the way of consensus from the discussion page linked in the cut reason. I grant you, I was initially not going to raise this, since unlike the time when the CRF variant was cut, it tried to explain why it was misuse. But the explanation doesn't add up to me:
"Page is all misuse as CBAHC is about/goes under the works errors are made of, not the works making the errors."
The wording on this explanation is rather poor in and of itself (as the one reply in the cut reason's cited discussion thread alludes to) but on top of that, I've no idea what it's trying to get at after reading it carefully. Fundamentally, Cowboy BeBop at His Computer is, as the laconic page says, "when a source gets basic facts wrong about a work", and nowhere on the page does it mention anything resembling what the cut reason mentions.
On close examination, maybe the cut reason is saying that the error example should go on the page for the work rather than the work talking about the work, but not only does nothing on the CBAHC page specify this, but that's honestly a rather poor way of doing things if we trope reviewers and if it's the only option. Another part of me thinks that the key phrase is "facts about works", but that puts into question the idea that "all" the examples were misuse, considering what was on that page.
Based on the above and the minimal feedback in the discussion thread cited in the cut reason, I believe the page's cutting was unjustified, but I'd like other thoughts on this just in case I'm reading into the wrong thing.
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved Fan-made novelisation shares the name with source material
If there's a fan-made novelisation for video game (which shares the name with source material), how to name the page for it to prevent if from showing up as subpage for the game itself?
Or just add either "fanfic" or author's nick in the link, and then use WikiWord?
resolved Mandalorian Memes Live Action TV
Some of these Memes.The Mandalorian entries have two bullet points each in the page source, yet display with single indentation. What messed up the coding?
- Mando doing sidequests.Explanation Jokes about Din being Railroaded into doing "sidequests" (or favors) in order to get the information he needs have been made.
- Mando making new friends every episode (or at least in Season 2).Explanation The show's frequent use of guest-of-the-week, especially notable in Season 2, where most of the episodes have Mando becoming Fire-Forged Friends with at least one new character.
- "I can help you, but first I need something from you."Explanation Season 2 can essentially be summed as a constant Fetch Quest, as Mando is constantly doing favors for other characters in exchange for something, only to then meet someone else who wants a favor from him in exchange for another thing, and so on. Most egregious when he finally did find a Jedi, Ahsoka, only for her to turn him away and point him to Tython instead.
- Din Cry Laughing after being told to go to another planet.Explanation The summer after Pedro Pascal finished filming The Mandalorian Season 2, he landed two roles in the Zoom-based "play" I, My Ruination, which starred Paul Giamatti as A Streetcar Named Desire director Elia Kazan; one scene has Streetcar writer Tennessee Williams (Pascal) experience an alcohol-induced mood swing, prompting a concerned Elia to exclaim, "Hey!" multiple times, before asking, "What's going on?" After "The Jedi", some Star Wars fans posted the clip with captions referring to it as Din's thoughts after learning he'd have to travel somewhere else to finish his mission.
- The Mandalorian on Omegle by Tiktoker cosplayer tokenasianfriend.
- "Okay, just... just give me one second. I'll be right back."Explanation ”The Mandalorian" meeting a stranger who doesn't like Star Wars or The Mandalorian, prompting Mando to awkwardly excuse himself before somehow appearing in the stranger's house to beat him up.
- "Okay Mando, show me your cock or the kid dies!" "Aw, fu—" Chapter 14: The TragedyExplanation A Boba cosplayer (or more accurately, someone wearing a Boba mask) having a Nerf gun put up to a doll of the Child, demanding to the Mandalorian on the other line to show his... penis or else he'll kill the kid. Going with the common joke about not wanting to be Mistaken for Gay, it's joked that Mando being forced to show his wang to another guy is just as tragic if he showed his face to a living being.
- "You're the guy from Fortnite!"Explanation One of the Omegle people in the same video joking that he recognizes the Mandalorian as a Fortnite character due to him having recently become a sponsored character in the game at the time of the video.

The Bible is edit locked, undoubtedly for good reasons.
I have a couple of tropes where The Bible is cited that I would like to add: