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resolved That One Boss natter? Videogame
I tried to bring this up in the cleanup thread
, but to no avail.
This was recently added under Sillydillo's entry in ThatOneBoss.Kirby:
- In a June 2022 interview with Nintendo Dream, Shinya Kumazaki admitted that members of the development team often raised complaints about Sillydillo's difficulty... including Kumazaki himself. You know a boss deserves to be on this list when the people who made the game wound up finding him too tough!
Seems like natter to me, but should I remove it?
resolved Is there an Administrivia about "see above" and "see below"
I'm noticing quite a bit on Tv Tropes examples saying "see above" rather than explaining something for itself. Is there an Administrivia about how examples like this should be handled? Should they be edited to actually clarify rather than assume one would scroll "above" or "below"?
resolved Defictionalized Recipes
I was thinking of putting something into the TLP that involved taking food from fictional media and making it real, sharing recipes of said food. I'd either mark it as either just for fun or ymmv as the intent is to share recipes for fictional dishes so that they can be made for real.
I don't exactly have any recipes I made up myself, and I am sure adding recipes from other sites and even cookbooks would be nothing more than plagiarism. I am also trying to determine the best way to format recipes. As such, how should I go about this?
resolved Suì-Fēng or Soi Fon? Anime
The Bleach series is no stranger to the official localization changing over time, such as the Soul Reapers' swords variously being called "Soul Cutters", "Zanpak-to", and "Zanpakutou" over the years; or Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshō being variously spelled with or without a space.
According to the official Masked and UnMasked artbooks, written by Tite Kubo himself, the Captain of Squad 2's name is supposed to be the Chinese "Suì-Fēng", which is pronounced "Soifon" in Japanese. However, VIZ Media's English localization has phonetically transcribed her name as "Soi Fon" and continues to do so even in media released after the artbooks came out — such as Bleach: Brave Souls and the Bleach: The Thousand Year Blood War Arc. However, the TV Tropes pages all refer to her as Suì-Fēng.
What seems to be the case is that the Bleach wiki has prioritized Kubo's spellings (or ones that make sense in the language the different groups use) above VIZ's official English localizations — hence them using diacritics, and spelling "Visored" instead of "Vizard" and "Vollständig" instead of "Vollsterndich" or "Voll Stern Dich"; and the Bleach TV Tropes pages seem to — intentionally or not — have followed suit. But IIRC TV Tropes' policy is to prioritize the official English localization above all others, even if it turns out that localization is incorrect — as in the case of Berserk's Band of the Hawk being properly named "Band of the Falcon" but the English localization continuing to use the incorrect translation, with TV Tropes following suit.
What should be done in this case?
resolved What do we do about this?
But We Used a Condom! uses the words "people with uteruses" to refer to women. Presumably, whoever wrote this was trying to avoid causing offence by excluding "people with uteruses" who don't identify as female, but there are those who think this kind of language is in itself offensive. They feel describing people solely in terms of what reproductive organs they have is dehumanising and smacks of Political Over Correctness.
Don't get me wrong. I'm aware that some people don't identify as whichever gender they were assigned at birth and I've nothing against such people. But words like "men" and "women" are used elsewhere on the wiki, so I was wondering what should be done in the case of this particular article and any other articles where such "inclusionary language" has been used. Specifically, is it OK to change "people with uteruses" to "women" or at least "people assigned female at birth"? Or should the sentence where "people with uteruses" appears be rewritten from scratch?
resolved JakeStoneArtist
(See here
for earlier query on the troper)
I didn't wanna necro that query, but today, they sent me a strongly-worded PM attacking the writers as well as self-promoting ideas they made on their deviantart account.
Edited by YuriHaru567resolved Is "needlessly vindicitive" a proper edit reason for removal? Videogame
Black Yakuzu 94 removed several entries from the one of the recap pages
for Fate/Grand Order, claiming to be "removing needlessly vindicitive comments". Their removal of certain tropes from the YMMV page for that recap page but without an edit reason prompts to ask if that is a legitimate reasoning, if the entries were actually that, or if this was a case of agenda based editing.
Removals from the main page:
- Asshole Victim: Even before Morgan's backstory was revealed, the majority of Faeries that the protagonist encounters outside their closest allies are jerks, backstabbers, manipulators, pretenders, violent murderers and worse. And then there's Morgan's backstory which is just an endless cycle of her being betrayed by the very Faeries she's trying to save. It makes her harsh oppression of them as the Queen almost justifiable.
- Kick The Son Of A Bitch: Oberon Vortigern is the final boss and the eventual Arc Villain, and he intends to destroy all of Proper Human History after escaping the Lostbelt alongside killing off Chaldea to keep them from stopping him. Definitely not a good guy in the slightest. But... when he actually accelerated the destruction of the ungrateful Faerie races? And that he boasts that at least he succeeded in destroying Fairy Britain? Well, seeing just how horrific they are, it can be tempting to pat Oberon Vortigern's shoulders and tell him 'job well done'. Same with Cernunnos' reawakening and then giving Oberon Vortigern what he needed to start his plan.
- World of Jerkass: While other Lostbelts are very much definition of Crapsack World, they were inhabited with complicated beings who are capable of both good and bad. This Lostbelt is notorious for having a majority of its inhabitants being selfish, backstabbing, greedy, lazy, ungrateful, manipulative assholes, while decent faeries can be counted with two hands at most and those tend to be met with horrific ends at the hands of the asshole ones. It was these inherent self-destructive tendencies 'in the name of fun' that led the world to ruin (with Morgan adopting tyranny to put up any semblance of order, and even that was only temporary until she was ousted and betrayed). The EX Difference Depth classification of the Lostbelt isn't just for show.
Altered on the main page (Bold portion was removed)
- Downer Ending: While previous Lostbelts all end in a bittersweet note, this one's ending is really bleak. The entirety of the Faerie British Isle is torn to pieces by the Calamities, with the only three characters surviving it until the world's end being Melusine Albion, who is just barely holding herself together, Oberon Vortigern, who is stuck inside the Insect of the Abyss so that it can't escape outside, and Aurora, who is slowly dying anyway. Furthermore, Chaldea's secondary mission to retrieve Rhongomyniad ends up failing as the lances were all used to try to kill Cernunnos and they were unable to save anyone from the Lostworld. Sion also hints in the ending that Chaldea's good luck streak of conquering Lostbelts without casualties is about to end. The only good that came out of it is stopping the world from being destroyed and they were able to get an alternate tool, a physical version of Excalibur, to defeat the Foreign God. There’s also the silver lining that all the malignant Faeries deserved what they got for being such assholes of the highest order and put everyone, including the world itself, through hell for their selfishness and fickle nature.
- Mercy Kill: What the heroes have to end up doing to the few good fairies who really didn't deserve to die
Removed from the YMMV page
- Catharsis Factor: Unlike the first five Lostbelts, the players will probably be very happy to see Cosmos Denial after completing the chapter considering how awful the fae are.
resolved Does Editing on A Non-Banned Person's Behalf Count as Ban Evasion?
If a non-banned person proposes edits in an offsite document but doesn't make the edits themself, then is it alright for someone else to make the edits for them as long as they credit them?
resolved Broken Base and other Recent Examples in MMOs? Videogame
So today, RuneScape (specifically Runescape 3) got an update that is fairly controversial, regarding the identity of a fairly major NPC, and I'm wondering how to address it on the trope page; RS itself has been out for over twenty years, but the update is literally not even a day old. Do I add a Broken Base example now, or do I have to wait six months from today (January 17th, 2024) to do it?
resolved Edit War Film
- Troper Battiste 06 introduced a (faulty) Alternate History entry, which was re-edited countless times until reaching the final form here
- Troper AK 47 Productions cut it here
with a commentary
- Troper Battiste 06 reinstated the entry
without any comment or alternation
On top of that, the entry itself borders on Epileptic Trees, as absolutely nothing in the film even suggests such situation.
resolved Re-added Hilarious In Hindsight shoehorn in spite of cleanup Web Original
Near the end of April on the Hilarious in Hindsight page for Zero Punctuation, rundownforge50 added this sub-bullet
to an example that just happened to offhandedly mention Garry's Mod. I figured this seemed like a shoehorn since it didn't strike me as something which later context has made all that much more amusing or entirely relevant to the context given in the parent bullet, so I raised it to the Hindsight Cleanup thread
and was cleared to cut the example
.
Fast forward to today and I check the page's history since it's in my pinned pages list, and I notice that the same troper had added the same example back
the day before, with superficially altered wording that really doesn't help the example's case for being an example of Hilarious in Hindsight.
Speaking to the substance of the example itself, perhaps it would have been an example of Hilarious in Hindsight if the player model was one that Yahtzee himself created and/or frequently used, but a quick glance at the linked workshop page tells me that it isn't. So as far as I'm concerned, the example still seems like a shoehorn.
I won't say one way or another if the readding of the example is a breach of the Edit War policy, if only because the passage of time between the deletion and readding makes it unclear from my perspective. But I'm assuming, given the linked approval from the hindsight cleanup thread, that I'm still clear to cut the example?
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved ROCEJ violations?
Brendan Rizzo
's edits sometime veer into ROCEJ territory.
- Accentuate the Negative: Since RationalWiki is aimed at refuting pseudoscience and fallacious argumentation, and promoting skepticism, the site naturally has a bit of a cynical streak, to emphasize how much society gives such bigots and frauds undeserved respect. This naturally extends to politics, such that every country in the world is made out to be an awful place. Japan is particularly notable here. Yes, like all countries, it certainly suffers from systemic problems that neither the government nor its people are willing to acknowledge, but to hear the wiki tell it, the country is run entirely by bigoted authoritarian nationalists like Saudi Arabia or Russia.
- Have a Gay Old Time: If 4chan or Encyclopaedia Dramatica or any other troll site innovates an offensive slang term, or an innocuous word is used sexually in obscure Internet erotica and never in real life, add the example. Clearly, the original definitions have gone the way of the dodo.
- And That's Terrible: Useful Charts’s video on the family tree of the Roman kings has the host interrupt his summary of the Rape of Lucretia by saying that, despite Lucretia supposedly being the most virtuous of women, her killing herself specifically so that no woman to come after her can excuse their own promiscuity, even if she is raped, proves that this assessment is undeserved. Basically, he calls her a karen without ever using the word. This is rather strange, considering that most people don’t need it pointed out to them that ancient peoples were not as morally advanced in certain areas, and despite the series covering other ancient societies which were just as bad if not worse by modern standards without moralizing about it.
Most notably, the last one was brought up in the ROCEJ cleanup thread (which called for it to be removed), and it had the edit reason "Please don’t misunderstand me for one of those anti-SJW idiots. This sort of thing gives us moderns a bad name". I sent multiple ROCEJ notifiers a couple of months ago, which they haven't responded.
Yesterday, they added another quote that sounds rather inflammatory to Quotes.JustEatGilligan:
So...yeah.
Edited by UFOYeahresolved Moving removed Talking to Himself examples to Acting For Two
Before Talking To Himself was made a disambiguation, I added some examples of it to Trivia.The Life And Times Of Juniper Lee. When dewicking the trope started, it was removed here
. Would it be considered an edit war if I added those examples under Acting for Two?
resolved Possible Edit War in YMMV Page for Elemental? Western Animation
I only realized after my last edit
on YMMV.Elemental 2023 that I might've accidentally been part of an edit war on whether or not Fireboy and Watergirl should be linked despite not having a page yet. I was the first one to make the deliberate redlink here
, but The Jayman 49 removed it here
without explanation. Hqami then added it back
, explaining why it should remain redlinked, but then Matthew Guy 6131994 removed it again
without explanation, and that was when I accidentally re-added it without checking the edit history. Is this still an edit war even if it doesn't follow the ABA user pattern of adding/removing? And should there also be a commented-out note not to remove the deliberate redlink because of this? I sincerely apologize for accidentally getting myself into this, and will make sure that I read the edit history before making any changes.
resolved Permission to change entry on Fanfic/MagmaDragonKing without causing an EditWar.
On March 21st, 2023, I added the following entry to Adaptational Backstory Change:
- Whereas Jellal was a genuinely heroic person once in canon before being Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade, here he's Not Brainwashed, is just naturally twisted, and his "heroic" personality was nothing but a front he put on and then discarded in his quest for power. Kairomaru
outlined this themself when a commenter expressed their mixed feelings on Jellal's death since, beforehand, this distinction wasn't apparent in the main story itself.
- The Continuity Snarl-inducing retcon that Jellal was Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade despite the age difference between Ultear and Jellal is removed, meaning that he's Not Brainwashed and is just naturally twisted, and his "heroic" personality was nothing but a front he put on and then discarded in his quest for power.
- The notion that the original version is a Continuity Snarl is debatable, especially when it is treated as such nowhere else on this site.
- For context, Ultear Milkovich was a member of the Dark Guild "Grimoire Heart", obsessed with trying to release The Black Wizard Zeref so they could take over the world, Ultear having been recruited by Guildmaster Hades at a young age after she escaped from a government experiment facility. One of her first jobs was obtaining one of the "keys" to unlocking Zeref by manipulating Jellal Fernandes, a child slave at the Tower Of Heaven who had led a rebellion to free the slaves there, but was shortly after brainwashed by Ultear into continuing the horrors at the Tower so that he could "revive" Zeref, feigning that she was his partner in the process. This lasted until the titular "Tower Of Heaven" arc where, after having kidnapped his old friend/love interest Erza Scarlet, Jellal fought and lost to main character Natsu Dragneel, the Tower being destroyed and Jellal believed to have died, when in truth he survived, just barely, and was freed from the brainwashing, but struck with Laser-Guided Amnesia.
- As PutotyraNoZarus's reasoning for putting it as such is unstated outside of the entries "age difference", not even providing an Edit Reason, I don't really know. The Sinful claimed in the comments for a review by Very Melon that fic author Kairomaru stated "how nonsensical he found it was that she was somehow perfectly controlling him from a distance despite being brand new to her magical studies", except I can find no record of Kairomaru saying that, and it ignores the fact that the reason Ultear was even in that experimentation facility was because of the sheer raw magic power she had since birth, and that she had spent years there being experimented on, some of which was willing since she had escaped once prior to the escape that led to her joining Grimoire Heart, but had returned of her own accord due to her own Dark and Troubled Past. Even the age difference aspect feels like flimsy reasoning since canonically, Ultear is pretty close to Jellal in age.
- Canonically, Jellal was Brainwashed and Crazy by Ultear for the better part of a decade, changing from a heroic and kind person to a ruthless and twisted monster until he was freed. Here, the latter is his natural personality, the former being a front he put on then later discarded once he had control over the Tower of Heaven himself.
resolved Trivia relevancy on Voltron: Legendary Defender Western Animation
Hello,
I was doing a Wiki Walk and i found this trivia about Voltron: Legendary Defender:
-"The Klance (Keith/Lance) fanfiction "Dirty Laundry" had the second most kudos of all fanfiction on Archive of Our Own. (It is second only to a Groot parody fic.)"
I was wondering about the relevancy of this information and if it should be removed since it's not really about the show itself and seem oddly specific to me.
What are your thoughts on this?
resolved RPGs Equal Combat
EDIT never mind, self-solved. I've made a typo in one of the entries, then copied it over to the other, while fixing the original typo. Case closed
Am I missing something, or the link to the trope is busted? I've put it into Oko Yrrhedesa, and both instances are flagged in red. Yet when I compared with other pages using this trope, they display as they should, in blue, using the exact same formatting as I did. Any solutions?
Edited by Tropiarzresolved VERIVERY wipeout
m80592718's only edits to the wiki involve wiping out most of the main page for Music.VERIVERY and replacing the entirety of the YMMV page with a generic line of text that doesn't even have a troper attached to it. None of their edits have edit reasons.
Can we get a mod revert (on the main page only, I've restored the YMMV page myself).
Edited by UFOYeahresolved Plan succeeds despite setback Film
Is there any trope where:
- Characters plan something
- The plan is disrupted one way or another, in a truly dramatic fashion
- Yet their original goal is still achieved, despite the fact the plan itself failed entirely

Smolidk's troper page is...rather worrying. It opens with "Kill me", and includes entries about the troper in question like Abusive Parents, Angst? What Angst?, Asshole Victim, an inverted case of Beautiful Sexual Assault Victim where they call themselves "absolutely hideous", and more (with one standout entry being "Death Seeker: Kill me pls").
Wasn't there a recently-passed rule that this sort of thing wasn't allowed on people's troper pages anymore because we here at TVT are not trained mental health professionals (which was also discussed here
)?