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resolved Question about character page cleanup threads
I have a general question: If a troper like myself creates a character page cleanup thread for a specific series, where should they announce it? Thanks.
Edited by gjjonesresolved How to AKA character pages / make a universal character page Videogame
Making two media pages in the same franchise, which shares similar casts, and would like there to be one character page that links to them both.
Similar accomplished with the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Warhammer40000SpaceMarine
page, with Space Marine II linking to it via "AKA", but I've never had to do this myself until now. Like to know what page contains instructions to accomplish this.
resolved Misuse of ascended memes for Sonic 3? Film
These were added to the Film.Sonic The Hedgehog 3 page, under Ascended Meme:
- Ascended Meme:
- A minor one; Shadow gets totally interested in La Ultima Passion and roots for the Love Interest to just kill the other legs of the Love Triangle she's stuck in. He just loves Latinas.
- At one point, Sonic calls Shadow "Hot Topic", Shadow's nickname in Snapcube's Real-Time Fandub.
I feel like this is misuse, as Ascended Meme is when the meme itself appears in a work. Neither of these feel like actual references to the memes and are a bit of a stretch to connect them and are Fan Myopia at worst.
Cause hearing Sonic call Shadow "Hot Topic" made me think "okay, reference to edgy stuff zeitgeist in the mid-2000s" and not a reference to Snapcube fandubs (FWIW I haven't watched either).
Similarly, Shadow watching the spanish drama and getting into it feels more like he's The Comically Serious and Not So Above It All, rather than the latinas meme.
Like, I feel an actual ascended meme referring to at least the Jehtt thing is if Shadow actually said "I Love Latinas" in the dialogue of the film.
Edited by taotruthsresolved Fair whodunit according to van dine.
I'm looking for examples of works that follow the twenty rules for a good detective story written by SS Van Dine, apart from the mysteries he wrote himself. There are many examples of knox's decalogue in the trope Fair-Play Whodunnit, but none about these other rules.
Edited by luigirovattiresolved Cutting Oddity RPG pages Videogame
Folks, it's time to face facts: Oddity is never coming out. It's been five years since the initial announcement trailer with no major updates afterwards, over 17 years since the project started development as Mother 4, and the hype for this game has all but dried up. Since all of the Mother 4 pre-release material has been made obsolete and mostly deleted from the internet, we only have one trailer and a Twitter page that is barely updated to go off of.
When I did a second clean-up (the first clean-up was mostly to remove gushing) removing anything that went off of outdated (pre-rebrand) material or Word of God (which isn't allowed), there was barely anything left. On the Characters page alone, many of the folders were blank and that was before I touched them.
Also worth noting that there were a ton of commented out examples on the Characters page which I removed (there were also a bunch on the main page too before I cut those during my first clean-up). Commenting out examples on an unreleased work in anticipation for the work's release is also not allowed.
Yes, there is gameplay footage in the trailer but it barely tells us anything other than "it's a Mother-inspired RPG." Not much of a premise, and certainly not enough to warrant a page, especially when no information regarding the story, setting, and characters have been revealed afterwards. Literally the only information we have about the setting is "It takes place in a small town in 70s America." There are ten tropes on the main page but half of them are about the Modern Mind enemy instead of the game itself or the overall setting of the game. There's no release date, and at this rate there never will be.
Taking all of this into account I feel there is no longer a viable work page. I propose a cut of Oddity's pages and the material in Oddity's main page be moved to Release Date-Less Work Descriptions in the event the game does get a release.
Edited by supernintendo128resolved Mistaken gender error
The author itself mistakes a character's gender.
In the Left 4 Dead campaign Death Toll, a character let someone else into his safe room but bit them because they were infected; however, he says, “I can’t believe HE bit me”, and inside there is the corpse of a female zombie.
resolved Concerning conclusion to a Role Ending Misdemeanor example
In the Tabletop Games folder on the Other subpage for Role-Ending Misdemeanor, I found that this edit
by Schlub_life from late last August (the added text is in bold italics on the end of the example):
- In the world of Tabletop Games, Zachary Smith AKA Zak Smith AKA Zak Sabbath was an influential designer, blogger, and podcaster in the early days of the Old-School Renaissance scene, with credits on several big-studio productions, including as a consultant on the fifth edition of Dungeons & Dragons. Then several former girlfriends came forward with allegations against him of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, including former adult film star Mandy Morbid. This opened the floodgates and an increasing number of OSR bloggers came forward with stories of harassment and other abusive behavior from Zak. After Zak filed a number of unsuccessful defamation lawsuits against several of his critics he was widely considered persona non grata in not just the OSR community but the Tabletop industry as a whole. The final major holdout was Edward James Raggi, publisher of Lamentations of the Flame Princess (who is himself a controversial fellow), but even he ended up cutting ties with Smith in 2019. It should be noted, however, that several of his accusers later admitted to exaggerating or outright lying simply because they disliked Smith for his smug and confrontational attitude.
The lack of sources for the note at the end and the sudden pivot from documenting the accusations and role termination to noting that the accusers supposedly admitted to lying has set off a few red flags in my mind, both in terms of if this is true (given the subject matter), and whether or not this is necessary to add.
But on the other hand, I don't want to jump to the conclusion that there was an agenda behind this edit. I'd like to hear what others see before I decide whether or not to do anything with this added sentence.
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved Should FUSION FALLS: TAKE TWO! have a Surprisingly Realistic Outcome page?
Looking at the Fusion Falls Take Two page, it feels like this should be moved into some type of "deconstruction" label since it feels like a lot of these aren't immediate outcomes. For some examples
The fact that Equestria's royal guards have a history of being utterly useless, not even bothering to show up for major crises and letting the Mane Six handle it, is used by Sunset as an excuse to disband them in favor of human police who are actually trained to handle problems. Meanwhile, she also has to start seizing assets from the nobility and selling off the treasury to stabilize the economy until she can convert Equestria into a tourist destination, since it can now no longer support itself purely as an agricultural society when their magic-based agriculture no longer works.
Dee Dee's antics have much more serious consequences in a world without Toon Physics, ultimately resulting in her being arrested after causing a massive explosion that kills hundreds of people and causes millions in property damage, and then being institutionalized when she tries to laugh off her actions as joke.
And some examples feel more tied into the whole The Magic Goes Away deal.
Without magic to hold it at bay, the Wizarding World actually has to deal with the consequences of the extensive inbreeding that it relied on, causing many of them to die within a year of the Merge.
Without magic to maintain them, Storm King's fleet of airships are destroyed by the simple fact that keeping lava pools onboard wooden ships means that the latter will naturally be destroyed.
At the very least, the page probably needs a clean up.
Edited by JustaUsernameresolved Self Demonstrating Character Pages
Do Self Demonstrating Character Pages require unanimous agreement to create or are they like Work pages and anyone can make one?
resolved Should these be Creator or Useful Notes?
A few months back
, someone suggested moving Karl Marx from the Creator namespace to the Useful Notes namespace, arguing that his writings are not tropeworthy but the man himself makes enough appearances in media (as a Historical Domain Character) to warrant coverage on Useful Notes. I made a similar argument for Cicero.
There seemed be some support for a move, but I think I would like a greater consensus. In addition, I know how to change page type, but I'm not too sure what to do after that (aside from culling the trope lists).
resolved Image Caption Pickin'
Is the Image Pickin' thread the place to talk with other Tropers about adjusting the caption of a page image? Let me be clear; I'm not talking about changing a page image itself. That is very clearly what Image Pickin' is for. I'm talking about suggesting a change to a page image caption; while I'm quite sure that there's no policy against unilateral caption tweaking (and I've done so in the past — for instance, I was the one who added the caption
for the Mistaken for Racist article's page), in the instance I want to do right now, I think it is best to ask for community feedback before going ahead.
Specifically, what I want to do right now is add a note to the caption for the page image for That Came Out Wrong. The image and caption in question entail Leo of VG Cats being perceived as a weirdo for loitering around a school with the intention of "meeting kids" — with the caption being "He should have clarified that he wants to "meet" them on StreetPass." However, I had a bit of a Fridge Logic moment about this — most schools wouldn't want their students using a Nintendo 3DS for the same reasons they frown on cellphone usage (basically: it's a distraction from learning). So I felt like I should add a note to the caption to the effect of "It's not like a school would be the best place for StreetPassing anyways.", but I have a few reservations on whether or not this actually enhances the caption, so I figured I should ask for advice first.
Edited by Bomber-Boiresolved SnowPatrol = Similar_Set_6582?
Per this ATT thread
, the troper zombies4eva made a report trying to get another troper in trouble for "un-reverting ban evader edits", only for it to turn out that zombies4eva was ban evading themself. While their edits have been taken care of, one question remains. A troper by the name of Snow Patrol started the discussion post
that zombies4eva replied to and took to ATT, and seeing that zombies4eva was apparently ban evading with at least two other accounts around the same time,I was just wondering if Snow Patrol is another sock of theirs. Even if it isn't, Snow Patrol's discussion post is near-identical to the one that Similar Set made on Reddit
, meaning that they're engaging in drama importation/exportation, if nothing else. The fact that they've made no edits on this wiki and only seem to have made the account to add the discussion post only fuels the point.
As the mods have said, while there's nothing they can do about a Reddit (or any other website) user stirring up trouble on this wiki, they can do something if the person also has an account on TVT.
Edited by UFOYeahresolved "Wasted" removal, valid?
Mariofan99 removed these from YMMV.Shadow Generations citing cleanup
and "Character cant be wasted if they never show up." But the cleanup said to cut the "Plot" examples, not the "Character" ones they also removed. The removals I have questions about.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Even though Shadow is sent to Sunset Heights and Infinite is a major villain in that game who despises Shadow, Infinite makes no in-person appearance. Instead, Infinite is only shown and mentioned in the concept art and backstory logs within Shadow's Collection Room. My impression was that even a small reference to them means they're in the work enough to qualify as "Wasted". Does this not count as not an in-narrative ref (the Collection Room is fuzzy on if in-universe)?
- Mephiles, a villain heavily associated with time travel, being the Big Bad or at least a major antagonist in a game revolving around time travel would seem like a no-brainer, yet he plays no greater role in the plot outside of his boss fightnote it's at least implied he has something to do with the Corruption slime that Shadow needs Doom Morph to move around in, as it heavily resembles his shadow creep in both 06 and his boss fight here, but nothing concrete is ever said He does show up. So was he removed as the narrative never hinted he's have a bigger role in the story than just a boss fight? Would this be wasted "Plot" as unused narrative potential, or not as the plot of the boss fight was to stop him before he could become such a threat meaning it was used?
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
- While the game does a good job of representing Shadow's history in the series over the years (even going so far as to bring back Black Doom and Mephiles), there's a notable lack of a stage representation from Shadow's own game. Considering how much the remaster takes from Shadow the Hedgehog (such as bringing back Black Doom as the main antagonist), it's particularly jarring that the game doesn't get its own stage like Adventure 2 and Heroes do. It's even more jarring because Sonic '06 (which erased itself from existence), Sonic Forces (which takes place later in the timeline) and Sonic Frontiers (which doesn't feature Shadow at all) get returning stages, yet there's no stage from Shadow the Hedgehog despite there being a lot of creative and memorable onesnote For example, Digital Circuit and Mad Matrix, Circus Park, Sky Troops, G.U.N. Fortress, Lava Shelter and Cryptic Castle that could have easily fit the bill. Even the final battle against Devil Doom simply takes place in Radical Highway rather than somewhere like Black Comet, Final Haunt or The Last Way. Since the game is otherwise unashamed about the era Shadow the Hedgehog comes from, it comes across like it's still treated as a lesser entry. Get the criteria for "Characters" needing to be present/alluded to in-work, but what counts as setup for "Plot"? Is the Returning Big Bad and work being the sequel to Shadow not enough setup/allusion for the plots to be considered ignored? If not what is?
- A small point of contention for the story is that the future stages — the ones that take place after the events of Generations from Shadow's perspective — aren't really explored in detail. Shadow never questions what these places are, the only explanation given to their existence is an easily-missed Hand Wave from Gerald, and there's no cameos from those games to go along with them, with many citing Infinite's absence as an especially missed opportunity. Most of the game's stages don't really affect the plot much, but the future stages still give the impression that they were tacked on in comparison; it can't even be justified as representing the games that released between the original Generations and the re-release, as there's no stage for Sonic Lost World to go with them. Misuse because they do get mentions, so they aren't wasted just not used in the way fans wanted?
- Maria (and to a lesser extent, Gerald) never actually get to have any meaningful interactions with Shadow's friends that he's made. While it does make sense given the whole ordeal with the Time Eater's happening at the same time with Black Doom, and the game does try to Hand Wave this by Gerald not wanting to create a paradox, neither of them being able to at least introduce themselves to the likes of Rouge or E-123 Omega could've led to some interesting and heartwarming moments that the story never got the chance to explore. The absolute closest the game gets to featuring any characters interacting with Maria and Gerald is through the optional hub interactions, where Big reveals that he spent time with both of them for a little while, and Omega protecting them off-screen during the final battle. See above two questions.
- Some fans were disappointed that, while there's a cutscene showing Shadow's side of his boss fight with Sonic from the base game, there isn't an actual playable rematch from Shadow's perspective. Not even a simple flip of the original fight's mechanics. Seems like it was setting up a boss fight, only to pull the rug and make it happen in a cutscene. Or was this misuse as wasted "Gameplay", not "Plot"?
resolved Neglectful Precursor Trope Quesiton
I noticed that the trope description for Neglectful Precursors is formatted as a court trial. In addition, I also noticed that about 99% of the examples are also written as court cases. Does this trope actually require that examples be written that way? I wanted to ask because I couldn't find anything on the page itself indicating that.
resolved Troper continuing to be uncooperative/edit wars/downright rudeness
As mentioned in a previous ATT thread
, Slothed has a habit of complaining and doubling down on their complaints when called out on them, even being hostile towards me and other tropers (to the point that the ATT thread in question had to be locked). Today, I sent them a ROCEJ notifier for an edit
where they not only referred to multiple real-life content creators as if they were fictional characters, but calling them "toxic", "narcissistic", etc., which is quite a ROCEJ violation. Not only that, I reported
the page in question for being a ROCEJ nightmare (to which the other tropers on the thread largely agreed with me), and I even sent the other tropers who made similar edits on the page notifiers to show I wasn't singling anyone out.
Just now, Slothed has sent a reply not unlike the one they sent me for the previous notifier I sent weeks ago, in addition to doubling down on their edit again, they continued to be hostile towards me, saying that I'll "just accuse them of rudeness again", even though their edits and replies to notifiers certainly don't help matters.
And now they're edit warring
, accusing me of bias for deleting an edit of theirs
that was full of complaining (it began with "Notoriously and ridiculously used to extreme levels") and argues with itself (the other half of the edit began with "However, considering that...").
resolved April 1st joke
Good day.
I had an idea for an April 1st joke where I would add a folder for a meme-"character" to the character page of The Stormlight Archive with tropes written in a way to play into that meme. I would have it stick around throughout March 31st (GMT) to the morning of April 2nd to ensure anyone could stumble upon it (and maybe even add to the joke for themself), no matter what time zone they live in.
But before I prepare it, I would like to ask whether something like that is even allowed.
Thank you and have a nice day.
resolved Edit war on Characters/MCUWandaMaximoff
A new troper liberty3
removed the following entry
:
- Womanchild: Despite being in her late twenties/early thirties, Wanda acts much like a teenage girl in most of her appearances. She's often seen brooding or is otherwise antisocial in most situations, and she watches old sitcoms like she did as a child to comfort herself in her lowest moments. Justified, given how Wanda hasn't exactly lived what one would call a normal or happy life.
I am not the one who added it in the first place, but I restored it since I believe it is perfectly fine. They removed it again. I sent a message to them and received no reply.
The trope is lampshaded in Captain America: Civil War. Steve Rogers calls her a "kid"
and she is 27 there (born in 1989, the film is set in 2016). And she dresses and behaves like a teen, too.
What should be done about it?
Edited by Asherinkaresolved Unilateral subpage description changes
So back in March of 2021, it looks like user Fishious Rend changed the descriptions of all the subpages of {Tsundere} over the course of about 15 minutes. All of the changes were from simple explanations like
I cannot find any discussion on this. Should these be reverted?
Edit: Links to the edits:
Live Action TV
Tabletop Games
(I did revert this one when I saw it, before I realize this was on all the pages, and I do apologize if I shouldn't have)

While I was looking through the Christmas Elves trope, I stumbled upon this section on the Literature folder: "In the 1880s, Margaret T. Canby speculated that Santa got his elves one year when so many children had been good that he just couldn't do everything himself. They normally lived underground in winter and mined for treasure like Tolkien dwarves, but this group was getting bored with that and wanted to see the world", and it says that this is featured in Birdie and his Fairy Friends.
Thing is, I tried looking everywhere on that book and I couldn't find that specific info. about the elves. Does someone know where exactly does it say this?