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resolved What do I go to change the title of a work page? Anime
I'm considering of changing the main title of "Literature.Bakemonogatari" to "Literature.MonogatariSeries" since Bakemonogatari is only the title for the first arc/season of the series (and the series itself is a bit of a Long Runner with multiple different names for each arc/season and Bakemonogatari is only one of them). It makes more sense for the main title to be the Monogatari Series instead.
However, I'm not exactly sure where I can propose to change the main title. How do I do this?
Edited by RuckusHeartsresolved Questionable comment Music
I found this entry on Irony.Music:
- Luther Vandross is known for singing some of the most well-known R&B love songs of the 1980s and 1990s. He himself, however, never married, never had children, and never even had any known romantic relationships with women (it's possible he could have been gay).
The part in bold seems to be speculation on a real-life person's personal life. Is this the kind of thing that's allowed?
resolved Avoiding edit war + only Fridge Logic entry on Fridge/ page?
There was a page move request
that I fulfilled that moved a page from an incorrect namespace of FridgeLogic/ to Fridge/, and I added "Fridge Logic" as the header for the single entry.
~constanton11 edited the header
to Fridge Brilliance instead, I assume this was an oversight since most Fridge/ pages start with "Fridge Brilliance"
Why I'm bringing this to ATT (besides wanting to avoid an edit war which could be hashed out privately) is that I'm not so certain myself if a Fridge/ page can have a Fridge Logic entry alone or if it should be moved to Headscratchers/ or merged back to YMMV.
Edited by BlackFaithStarresolved Are these BB entries valid?
Originally posted on the BB thread.
These other examples from BrokenBase.Touken Ranbu are kinda shakey so I want to here what others think (the one about the fan reception was deleted):
- In July 2015, an update changed several charactersnote Izuminokami, Ookurikara, and Doudanuki from tachi to uchigatana. Naturally, fans were divided over this change, with some not really minding while others were unhappy, considering the change a big downgrade for the characters; however, their tachi-grade stats weren't nerfed, making them a strong uchigatana trio. Especially Izuminokami, who currently holds the position as the strongest uchigatana. unsure
- How the Revisionists are portrayed in and out of game counts. Some are fine with their monsterous characterization, since it brings more focus on the Saniwa's swords and leaves less room to root for the empire like what happened with the Abyssal Fleet in KanColle. Others argue that the Revisionists barely have character at all, and treating them as little more than cannon fodder takes away from exploring how the factions operate and the possible implications of how they came to be (See Fanon below). unsure (also has a "see below" mark)
- The announcement of the two anime adaptations had mixed reactions. Some people fear that the adaptations will not be very good (especially considering the low opinions many fans have of the KanColle anime), while others are happy about the prospect of their favorite swords getting animated. Another reason why a part of the fandom (mostly overseas fans) are against the adaptations is because they fear how the new Touken Ranbu fans will be. It was notable how they held the popularity of the franchise back, however, with two upcoming anime, chances are pretty high the bigger mass will discover Touken Ranbu. unsure
- Related to above, will the Saniwa (and by extension, what will the Saniwa's gender will be) appear in the anime or not has sparked debates, similar to the adaptation of KanColle. While the saniwa of Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru sparked some debate over whether or not they should have been depicted in full or just have another sword take the role (amusingly, similar to KanColle's own adaptation), Ufotable's version for Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu ended up in some wondering why the saniwa wasn't depicted as off screen like the Hanamaru one, why they looked like a little boy, and whether the decision to go for an androgynous look and not confirm either way instead of featuring the more popular interpretations of the character was an example of pandering, chickening out, a good idea, or something else entirely.
- While Kiwame has been well-received by most players as a way to upgrade the weak tantous to be useful on later maps, some are concerned by the changes in their lines that focus more on that Saniwa's attention and less on their own character tics. In a particular case, many fans of Imanotsurugi are reluctant to give him the Kiwame upgrade because it retcons a huge part of his character, and tragically so. unsure
- However, as later swords got remodels, it seems this trait is only reserved for tantous only. Justified, as tantous are supposed to be protection weapons. natter
- In the Western fanbase, there are quite a few vocal fans that openly question the morality of shipping the younger looking toudan, particularly the tantou, with the swords that are clearly intended to be adults, believing it to be disgusting despite the actual ages of the swords who in reality are well over centuries old; some of the younger looking sword boys are older than the characters that look like adults. There are fans that argue back that the age they appear to be is irrelevant due to the reasoning mentioned. The JP fanbase generally doesn't make a big deal out of this but that doesn't stop the debates from coming up. Valid but do think it might be better as Values Dissonance
- Now that the first seasons of the Anime adaptations have concluded, which one was superior? Touken Ranbu - Hanamaru or Katsugeki/Touken Ranbu? In Japan, it's made abundantly clear that Fans tend to prefer Hanamaru's adaptation over Katsugekinote and the dvd/bluray sales only hammer this home but in the west it's more divided. The below examples are arguing with themselves
- Some say Katsugeki was better because it supposedly had more of a plot, "relevant" character arcs, played up the oft-forgotten "protecting history" angle, and to some felt more like a Touken Ranbu anime in adapting the more dramatic aspects of the swords' backstoriesnote mainly only with the two leads Izuminokami and Mutsunokami, plus tritagonist Horikawa; the rest of the squad, despite being a part of the main cast, did not really get much development or arc focus and decry Hanamaru as "the Pixiv version" that makes the series look no different than any other Slice of Life series, and overexaggerates the characters and their arcs to match with fan perceptions (leading to events like Yamatonokami's controversial desicion to stop Okita from getting injured at the Ikeda-ya). Some also feel like the series crams too many characters in to make sure nobody feels left out, at the expense of the main pair's arc and development, up until the end.
- However, others argue that Katsugeki was a soulless bore of an adaptation whose only saving grace was it being visually impressive, and that it didn't live up to what it promised/was hyped up to be. In comparison, fans of Hanamaru say that this series felt like it was made for the fans, fun to watch, took an Ensemble Cast approach thus giving all fans more time to see their faves instead of staying focused on one (and to a VERY LESSER degree, two) sword group and was supposedly more faithful to the game and characterization; whereas Katsugeki took various liberties, particularly with their citadel's lore (the multiple Konnosukes in one citadel and being able to only send two swords at a time back in history at one point, in particular) and characterization/dynamics. People who prefer Hanamaru often refer to Katsugeki as a "Fate/stay night with a Touken Ranbu skin" anime and various other snarky nicknames involving that franchise due to their similarities in animation and other things ufotable lifted from their previous Fate adaptations.
- There are some fans who say they like both adaptations but lean more towards one, and those who say that both adaptations sucked or didn't like the heavy Shinsengumi focus on both series' leads (two Okita swords in Hanamaru, two Hijikata swords in Katsugeki) and their commonality of attempting to prevent their masters' most famous historical injuries. Some other fans tend to prefer the Stage play, Musical and Manga adaptations over both, while others just prefer the original game and fan created content.
- Lastly, there are fans who whole heartily liked both adaptations or felt that both adaptations fulfilled their purpose of what they were adapted to be like with Hanamaru being the Slice of Life anime it was promised to be and Katsugeki being the action oriented other half.
- The English translation of the game divided fans. For one thing, the website it was hosted on was largely known for ecchi and hentai games, so playing the game made certain fans uncomfortable, not only for the porn ads that would surround the game window, but for the sheer absurdity of such a tame game about men being hosted in such a place. For another, many fans took issue with the incredibly liberal translation, which often changed the characterisations of the boys, and contained many spelling and grammar errors. Some fans refuse to touch the English version thanks to all of these issues, while others think that the issues are minor and are just glad the game got an official translation at all. maybe valid
- The shipping of swords who are brothers can cause controversy, with one side claiming that it's incest and therefore immoral, and the other side countering that fiction has nothing to do with a writer or consumer's morality and therefore what a person ships doesn't matter. The issue gets muddied further by the nonhuman natures of the Toudan, and that what exactly makes a pair of swords "brothers" varies from character to character. Much like the tantou issue above, this argument is exclusive to the Western side of the fandom due to Values Dissonance. As squicky as it is, its is a fairly common talking point in a decent amount of fandoms so this is not a new issue
- Over the years, fans have become conflicted about the statuses of the Series Mascots (Mikazuki Munechika, Yamanbagiri Kunihiro, Kashuu Kiyomitsu, Kasen Kanesada, Hachisuka Koutetsu, and Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki) and how much emphasis the franchise places on them for what they assume is for no other reason than because they're the mascots: Unsure and violates the Examples Are Not Recent rule
- Dissatisfaction with Mikazuki's "special positions" has grown over time because of his frequent appearances in merchandise, attention from advertisers, assurance of an important role in every adaptation, appearance on the cover of anthologies, and other benefits. Also, unlike the five starter swords, he is not limited to being advertised as part of a group, meaning he is often promoted independently of the Sanjou, Tenka Goken, and, on occasion, the starter swords, leading to accusations of preferential treatment, especially over the other Tenka Goken who some believe he is treated as better than, despite there being no evidence of this in the story content that features the Tenka Goken.note While most works focus on Mikazuki Munechika due to his mascot status, every work treats the Tenka Goken group as a whole as special because of their status, even the original game itself. Others have argued back that Mikazuki showing up is justifiable and inevitable because of his status as one of the most recognizable characters and that his appearances don't take away from focus from other characters in the franchise, as he often isn't even the main character of the adaptations he appears in, with the exceptions being the live-action movies and Kabuki, due to the works either featuring an Ensemble Cast or focusing on some other character (ironically usually being some other overused Touken Danshi). There have also been some accusations of hypocrisy on the part of critics, as some other non-mascots like Tsurumaru Kuninaga and the Shinsengumi swords have shown up almost as often in merch and just as often in adaptations without facing the same heat that Mikazuki does because they aren't outright regarded as mascot characters.
- Yamanbagiri Kunihiro has also received criticism over the years, particularly following the announcement of the stage play's anime adaptation, due to his frequent appearance in adaptations, to the point where the only major adaptation he has not appeared in is Kabuki, making him more prominent than even the equally popular Kashuu Kiyomitsu. Like with Mikazuki, fans have argued about preferential treatment because of his popularity and a desire to see other swords promoted more, especially among the five starter swords, as, with the exception of Kashuu Kiyomitsu, the Mutsunokami, Kasen, and especially Hachisuka have made far fewer appearances and most of their advertising comes from being advertised as a part of the five starter swords group rather than because of their individual characters (Although Mutsunokami has been a little better off in recent years than to the introduction of the Jouishishi).
- Kashuu Kiyomitsu receives this as well, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent because he appears in less adaptations unless it somehow relates to the equally oversaturated Shinsengumi group (the first Touken Ranbu Musical being an exception). However, his Spotlight-Stealing Squad tendencies have been highlighted by fans who have watched the musicals (not helped by the fact that his actor is incredibly popular, not just the character, giving the production more reason to promote him over others), and the anthologies that are impossible to get through without at least three chapters that concentrate primarily on Kashuu and his Shinsengumi comrade. Fans of the other five starter swords have also pointed out just how long his Special Investigation event is compared to the other starter swords, leading to accusations of bias.
Any thoughts?
Edited by Ayumi-chanresolved Potential Edit War Western Animation
Hello, I recently added a fic rec to the Hazbin Hotel section and someone later came back and edited in a “YMMV” about the author, not commenting about the fic itself, making it unnecessary.
It comes off as petty and rude, not to mention false, so I removed it only for it to be added back in a little while later by the same user. I have sent a message to the user but I think a mod should get involved to stop an editing war.
The ones who added the “YMMV” edit back in is Keida.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=FanficRecs.HazbinHotel&page=7
Also I am fairly new to the site so please let me know if I need to provide more information or am putting this in the wrong section.
Thank you.
Edited by TuneGlowresolved Original RayFox gone and a reboot present. Webcomic
So...I've noticed something, and I am treating this is a sensitive matter since this could be a case of Bury Your Art, so I want to handle this as carefully as possible and discuss with you guys.
Around early October of this year, the 9th I think, I noticed that the entirety of the original comic pages for RayFox are now gone and are not accessible except through archives on the author's website (which itself does not let you access the old comic), and even then, it is missing the 6th chapter. As far as I know the original pages are, for all intents-and-purposes, lost to the ages and don't seem to be anywhere else.
While I have read the original pages enough to be able to add more trope entries to the page if I wanted to, there's still one factor that needs to be acknowledged; The work has been made inaccessible to the public and may remain so for the foreseeable future. It might be accessible through a paywall and there are physical copies of the comics (particularly chapters 1 & 2) that have been sold as far as I know, but again, I'm not sure that entirely counts as publicly accessible.
I've not been keeping a close eye on this nor is developing a page for the reboot an interest of mine at the moment, as I'm busy on working on a TLP (and eyeing on adopting another after I finish my current one), but I am curious as to what happens next...What does that mean for the page itself? Does the page for the old comic still stay up until further notice?
And hypothetically speaking, if I were to cover the reboot, would a separate tab for the reboot being on the same page be more appropriate? Or would a separate page be better? (If the latter, I'll toy around in my sandbox with the idea someday)
Edited by Stardust5099resolved Alien: Romulus retcons Alien: Covenant? (Spoilers) Film
The page for Alien: Romulus says that it definitively retcons Ridley Scott's assertion that David-8 created the Xenomorphs in Alien: Covenant by revealing that the Xenomorphs contain the Engineers' black goo.
Fox has seen fit to largely ignore Ridley Scott's assertion that David created the Xenomorphs—at least in regards to the official TTRPG, which was written with the intent of integrating and streamlining all the "canon" material—but I'm not seeing anything in the film itself that contradicts what's shown in Alien: Covenant given that David very expressly used the Engineers' black goo to create the Xenomorphs shown there.
What should be done about those claims?
resolved Question regarding Self Demonstrating Character Pages
Are there any rules I should know of before I start creating a Self Demonstrating Character Page from scratch?
Edited by Pikmin404resolved Misinformed trope question?
Found and discovered this one year earlier from John Wick franchise's trope example and something that I want to point out from my experience:
- Men Are the Expendable Gender: Prevalent in the first three movies. In contrast to the 250+ men that John killed throughout the series, the number of female Mooks he has encountered could be literally counted on one hand: Ms. Perkins in the first film, Ares and the Violinist in the second, and the young assassin at Grand Central Station in the third. Of these characters, only the Grand Central assassin was a completely throwaway extra. John Wick: Chapter 4 tipped the balance and added many more female Mooks to go after John (and be gunned down in turn).
I think the Men Are the Expendable Gender trope itself being added as an example is fine but still as mentioned above I believe the balance isn't exactly been "tipped" within Chapter 4. I would like to rewrite it in someway or form, unfortunately I'm just simply not good with writing. I know there is a place called "Is This An Example" thread and should have visited that said thread myself but I'm not exactly sure when was the right time to ask this topic, so I honestly thought it would be better to ask here instead. I don't meant anything "bad" by it, I simply found this writing of "John Wick: Chapter 4 tipped the balance and added many more female Mooks to go after John (and be gunned down in turn)" part specifically questionable as well as pointing out the facts straight. Anyhow I want to hear another person's thoughts or opinion on this matter in regards to the Men Are the Expendable Gender trope?
Side note: I apologize in advance if I am wrong, or rather if this trope question being too trivial as this for a topic?
Edited by YatasumujiSenpairesolved Pre-show Debut Western Animation
What's the name for the Trope where a character first appears in some type of promotional picture or merchandise before their actual debut in the show itself?
resolved Replacing page image you put there yourself
Good day.
I was wondering: If you want to replace the page image of a page you launched that still has the page image you picked pre-launch, do you still have to start an Image Pickin' threat for it?
resolved Ultra Series - Found an eyebrow-raising YMMV post Live Action TV
The post in question goes like this here
:
- What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?: Some have criticized the franchise for supposedly having nationalistic anti-foreign sentiments, seeing the Japanese defense teams defending against various alien threats as paralleling Japan pushing away foreigners and foreign influence. Many point to the second episode of the original Ultraman as an example, where the Baltan aliens were fleeing refugees after they blew up their own planet.note Ignoring the fact that they were planning to enslave humanity and take the planet by force, and Science Patrol actually okayed the idea of the Baltans living on the planet so long as they abided Earth's laws (which the aliens refused). This is ignoring the many times that aliens were shown sympathetically (even as tragic victims of allegorical racismnote such as in episode 33 of Return of Ultraman, episode 25 of Ultraman Max, and many episodes of Ultraseven) and the main heroes, the Ultramen, are well... aliens. The Science Patrol is also shown to be an international organisation, the series just focuses on the Japanese branch.
The post ends up contradicting itself. Should it stay or be removed?
Edited by 9thOutworldsManresolved Requesting list cuts on Survival Horror
Hello,
The Survival Horror description is lots of words yet little and contradictory content. This is generally not a problem for me because I can get definitions for survival horror off-site, but then there are four lists on the page that create extra confusion. I was wondering if I could get permission here to cut out some entries and move others.
I would like permission to delete the entire list except for the following entries that I believe to be specific (enough) to survival horror:
- Ammunition Conservation
- Apocalyptic Log
- Booby Trap
- Closed Circle
- Controllable Helplessness
- Cower Power
- Drought Level of Doom
- Early Game Hell
- Emergency Weapon
- Injured Self-Drag
- Inventory Management Puzzle
- Resources Management Gameplay
- Stealth-Based Mission
- Story Bread Crumbs
- Tank Controls
Obviously more can be kept, but I believe that the list as is serves no purpose.
Others on the list are as curious to me as some entries on in the survival horror list proper. Batman: Arkham Asylum is a Beat 'em Up and most of the description is how Batman is the horror that the mooks need to survive. This has nothing to do with survival horror as a theme-gameplay hybrid genre. Subnautica and The Stomping Land are survival games with a horror element, but they're not survival horror. Is Tomb Raider on the list because of Atlantis? True, creepy level, but that alone doesn't even make it action horror. And with Homeworld: Cataclysm, Total War: Attila, and XCOM, the horror element is doubtful and otherwise they're just strategy games. Can these at least be removed?
resolved Massive unilateral changes to two UsefulNotes pages
Troper/Renangtry has gone and rewritten vast chunks of UsefulNotes.Aboriginal Australians and UsefulNotes.First Australians to 'address racism and inaccurate information'. Now, while I don't disagree that both pages were due a clean-up (and indeed some of the information provided is new), and I also agree that the best place to learn about Australia's First Nations is from sources with First Nations input, they've not only basically rewritten two pages unilaterally, they've also gone and deleted quite a bit of historical information (mainly regarding the historical treatment of Aboriginal Australians by colonists as well as the various colonial governments) in the process. Furthermore, the fact that they've only got a grand total of 4 edits made over the span of a single day on both pages is suspect in of itself. What would be the best solution here?
resolved Real-life deaths on Tearjerker pages - yay or nay?
I was just checking out the Vinesauce Tearjerker page, and last year someone removed two entries saying that "real life deaths should not be included in Tearjerker pages".
To a point, I can agree. Like if Max Von Sydow was in a movie back in 1978, and someone added his death to the Tearjerker page for that movie when he passed away decades later - yeah, that'd be a major stretch. But this particular instance has me scratching my head.
The entries that were removed pertained to a dog named Molly, who was euthanized due to her health failing, and a community member named Vappyvap 88, who passed away in 2020 due to complications from COVID.
I'm not going to go into elaborate detail about Molly - I don't agree with cutting the entry, since the decision to have her put down was discussed during a stream and clearly had a lot of emotional weight attached to it - making it eligible as a Tearjerker moment for the Vinesauce stream imo - but I'll leave the issue be.
But I do want to talk about Vappyvap 88, because he collaborated with Vinny (one of the Vinesauce streamers) for years. He spent time archiving Vinny's stream VO Ds on his own time, which led to the creation of an official VOD channel on You Tube that Vappy ran in collaboration with Vinny. He eventually stepped down, with Vinny hiring a replacement manager to run the channel, but to a point he was an official collaborator - down to being listed on the Vinesauce characters page alongside the main streamers and other collaborators.
People knew who he was. He was a community member, and his contributions helped to grow the stream and offer more content to the community. And while it was mentioned briefly in passing on the stream - it was extremely upsetting to learn that he had passed away, as a longtime community member.
The reason I feel so strongly about this is because streaming tends to blur the lines between "the stream" as a consumable media product, and real life. Streamers are characters up to a point, but real life hardships do occur and can affect the emotional tone of a stream.
And while I can understand the logic behind keeping real life deaths out of a work's tearjerker page, Vappyvap 88 was involved in one facet of the broader Vinesauce operation. To a point, he was a part of the stream. And it seems callous to remove an entry talking about his death, though I'm clearly biased.
So that's why I'm bringing it to Ask the Tropers. Personally, I see the sense in discouraging real-life entries on a work's Tearjerker pages; point out the tribute in Star Trek Beyond to Anton Yelchin, rather than describing the young star's untimely death which was removed from the media itself, that sort of thing. But streaming, as a form of web video, has a bit more of a connection to the real world - and real world tragedies, like the death of a pet that the audience has heard about for years, or the death of a prominent community member and long-term stream collaborator, will matter to the audience and likely come up during the course of the stream itself.
What do you guys think? And if push comes to shove, and the actual stream clip can be tracked down and linked as an emotional moment - does that qualify an event like this to be included on a page like the stream's Tearjerker page? At that point it would be discussing a moment that occurs during the stream, though the general tone and context of the clip would have to factor in, of course.
resolved Urbenmyth and ArtisticLicenseTraditionalChristianity
Urbenmyth seems to have take it upon themself to make unilateral, large-scale edits to
Artistic License – Traditional Christianity, before making a discussion post
to complain about the trope, and then cutlisting the trope page entirely without any kind of permission
.
resolved Wrong namespace? Web Original
I was looking through the videos on the VideoExamples.Super Mario Bros page for potential videos that could be kept there, when I came across JustForFun.SMB Plumbing page.
At first I thought, "okay, this is a troper trying to have fun with that Advertising Campaign / ARG website where it's like it's going to the in-universe website where Mario and Luigi are running it"
But then I looked at it and saw it cataloged the actual thing the website was and how it worked both in and out of universe (the page itself might need some cleanup).
I couldn't find a forum thread immediately for a problem like this, but am I correct in thinking this shouldn't be a Just for Fun page, and should go to a different namespace like a Website?
resolved Agenda Based Editing on pages for Code Geass. Anime
Reddish Guy 1 is once again
conducting agenda based editing
for Code Geass, depicting the Britannian Characters as if they were solely black in terms of morality and changing things to reflect that including removing sympathetic tropes from several characters, while adding YMMV entries suggesting opinion for Noble Demon characters being unsympathetic is widespread despite there be little indication of this outside of the Base-Breaking Character Cornelia. What's more, they attempt to justify this by claiming this site thinks the series is Black-and-Gray Morality, but if the series itself is said to be Grey-and-Gray Morality, then that is what is supposed to be troped, with the idea its not that falling under Unintentionally tropes and Misaimed Fandom. And yes, it is meant to be seen as Grey-and-Gray Morality since the showrunners and even the actors have said as much, with them going on record as stating Cornelia and Suzaku are two of the most moral characters in the show, and they consider Lelouch to be irredeemable. For objective troping, authorial intent is important to note. Whether it worked or not would be covered in YMMV. I've sent them a notifier directing them to this thread, but this needs to be addressed as this is the second time now this situation has needed to be brought up to ATT.

DesignatedHero.Video Games
Ruderruby added this, Jamesjamm deleted citing "As another troper explained when removing this from the YMMV page, this is misuse as the only truly villainous acts are the Sanity Slippage the entry acknowledges is portrayed as wrong, and since Three Houses runs on Grey And Gray Morality, none of the lords can be said to be designated heroes since they’re antagonists on routes that aren’t theirs", Ruderruby added it back without explanation.
Thoughts on the matter?