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resolved Start of an Edit War/Possible Sockpuppet? Western Animation
Hello! So I recently posted this in the "Is this an Example?" thread, and haven't really got replies, though they have been leaning to my side.
I found something that screams shoehorning from a biased source.
From the YMMV page of The Owl House:
- Broken Aesop: The Series Finale has two major ones;
- Earlier in the series, the show railed against the concept of a Chosen One, and said that people should carve out their own paths. Just before the climax however, it's revealed that the remnants of the dead Titan has been actively helping Luz in learning Magic and has picked her to be the one to stand up against Belos. Guess what? That makes her a fucking CHOSEN ONE!!!
- After Belos is defeated and no longer a threat, he starts begging for Luz to save him from death, saying that is she doesn't, she'll be just as "evil" as the witches, and "We're Human, we're better than this!", only for Eda and friends to push Luz aside, smugly say to Belos "Well we ain't!" and then gleefully stomp him to death and laugh, proving that despite everything the show preached, in his final moments, they proved that everything Belos said had some merit of truth to it.
Two huge problems with this. First, it's very clearly overly hostile and biased against the show judging by it's language, and attempting to whitewash Belos by suggesting he has a point. Secondly, both examples are taken completely out of context to form a rhetorical strawman. The first one isn't an example because she wasn't born with any special destiny. She only got the Titan's approval due to being her kind and loving self, especially to his son. The second is just plainly absurd. It's attempting to play moral judgement on some of the people who have suffered the most under the genocidal psychopath, when he had just made his second attempt to commit genocide against their species.
I took the liberty of removing the example from the YMMV page. Now that would be fine on it's own, even if I heavily disagree with it... If it weren't for this entry literally being a copy paste of something that was posted on the main page of the show which the troper Gamermaster removed. The weird part is that it was copy pasted onto the YMMV page by an entirely different user, and the first user has a total of two edits on their entire edit history, both of which are super hostile to modern Disney properties. Later on the person who posted it on the main Owl House page posted it right back on the YMMV page exactly as is without going to the "Is this an Example?" thread, and added further shoehorning. I removed those too... but now I am wondering if this is some sort of sockpuppeting situation due to the reasons listed above. At the very least it could warp into an Edit War.
resolved Moving character to a different page Literature
I'd like to move Shen Jiu's character profile from Characters.The Scum Villains Self Saving System Demon Realm And Other Characters over to Characters.The Scum Villains Self Saving System Four Main Sects. Currently he's just under Other Characters, but I think he should really be under the Qing Jing Peak section as he was literally the leader of said peak before his (presumed) death, at which point he exits the story. (I'm explaining this to clarify that there are no conflicting affiliations or anything so I don't know why he's been placed under Other Characters.) Am I allowed to go ahead and move him?
Edited by Zaperexresolved something wrong with the Baldur's gate 3 Origin Characters page? Videogame
Specifically this one. Checking the history of the page or the edit page, i can clearly see there is content here. But when i try to look at the page itself... it's blank.
resolved Technology Marches On example seems invalid
Minor spoilers for the movie ahoy.
On the Hard Candy Trivia page, it says:
"Technology Marches On: Hayley's inability to find porn in Jeff's apartment is seen as damning evidence. Today, she would just assume he watched it online."
Doesn't anyone reading this think "wait a minute?!". The movie is clearly set in the present day (2005 at the time). We see Hayley searching his unlocked computer. She then says to him (according to the shooting script and I remember her saying it in a very similar fashion in the movie itself):
So, obviously she thinks he can download his illicit material online, as anyone would logically presume he could in the well-into-the-internet-era of 2005. She finds a disc in the safe marked "Stuff" which highly implies that's precisely what he's hidden. There may also be physically printed photos of young girls which he took himself, but that's immaterial here. He also could have very well just "enjoyed" the material he found online without downloading it as a private stash. The point is, the second sentence of the example looks to be invalidated, thus invalidating the entire entry. There's no technology marching on here, it would play out exactly the same if the movie was to be released today (whether the safe's illegal material is stored on a CD, an SD card or whatever). Even if he wanted to encrypt it on his computer, that would have been about as feasible back then as today (read: pretty damn feasible), and the police (or Hayley) would still throw resources at it to decrypt it as actionable evidence.
Am I correct here? Or am I missing something?
Edited by FlashStepsresolved Should I put this into TRS?
I've been reading through Animated Shock Comedy and noticed that many of the examples tend to comment on its quality. Whether if it's gushing about the inclusion of character development, or discussing about negative or divided viewer reactions.
Examples in the page that show this:
- "Sausage Party has plenty of Character Development and a solid plot, but it still sold itself on being the first 3D computer-animated feature to get an R-rating. Viewers are divided on its quality, with some feeling that it tried too hard to shove crude humor into every available place it could find."
- "Hoops, another Netflix cartoon. The main character is a completely unlikable Jerkass, and the humor is very crass, with lots of dick jokes and extreme amounts of F-bombs from its VERY foul-mouthed protagonist. While jerkass protagonists are hardly rare in this genre, this one's sheer obnoxiousness garnered the show many negative reviews, and likely led to its swift cancellation."
- "A lot of the humor in Rick and Morty is extremely sophomoric, with phallic imagery, burp/fart jokes, pop culture references and violence galore; however, much like Bojack Horseman, it plays the consequences of a lot of these jokes completely straight for the sake of furthering the story and developing the characters, who even at their flattest are much more fleshed out and three-dimensional than a good deal of the show's contemporaries..."
Basically, I think the trope tends to attract both complaining and gushing that I think examples should be rewritten to be less YMMV.
What do you think?
Edited by RuckusHeartsresolved Question about adding two colliding YMMV tropes at once:
So Silent Hill: The Short Message came out last month to a pretty polarized reception, and there's a specific dynamic about it I want to document about it, that being the debate on whether it's "a real Silent Hill game" or not. There's been a lot of different directions on it I felt could be covered, but I'm specifically interested in how detractors come in both It's the Same, So It Sucks and They Changed It, Now It Sucks! varieties, with the entries being something like:
- It's the Same, So It Sucks, referring to how some critics accuse it of being a watered-down imitation of earlier formulas established in the series, including the "journey through a horror landscape that's a metaphor for the protagonist's trauma and repressed guilt" codified by Silent Hill 2, but not as interesting.
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks! (probably the more common criticism) in that the game focuses more on "modern" Survival Horror game tropes and features a story that some accuse of being more "trendy", melodramatic, and not like "real" Silent Hill (I've seen the focus on teenage depression, abuse, and suicide being compared to unfavorably to Life is Strange).
I trust myself in not veering too hard into complaining (I actually like the game for the most part and find the divided response interesting), but I was wondering if adding these two directions at once might be actually more appropriate as a Broken Base entry, and that it's not kosher to put these points down until the requisite 6-month waiting period has passed. I don't think these audience reactions are mutually exclusive — there are different nuances to what either is referring to for what they expect from the game — but I just wonder if it's good praxis to trope in the way I'm proposing, or if I should just wait for the 6 months for a collective Broken Base entry.
Edited by number9roboticresolved ZCE re-commented out
i was looking over the YMMV.Charlottes Web page (mainly trying to find an edit I made, but not important to this query), and noticed that the Ensemble Dark Horse example just simply listing Templeton and nothing else had been already back-and-forthed over by different users:
- originally added as a ZCE in 2017
- jamaicanst01 commented it out in 2019
- and Pamina uncommented it in 2022 without expanding on it
i was going to re-comment it out again, but i don't want to fumble myself into edit-warring over it...
resolved Is my grammar good enough with Grammarly?
So I posted my Get Help With English forum like the one below two days but no one checked it so the next day I reposted it again but still, no one checked it. Is it because it doesn't need to be fixed because of Grammarly or because I was punished for my past actions? Here's the post that I was talking about.
- Tampering with Food and Drink: In the end, when Brittney and her presumed dead mother celebrate their victory, her mother takes a slip of the drink that Brittney hands out to her, she says that the drink is strong. Brittney gives a smug smile and quote "They do make them strong here, don't they?", implying that Brittney poisoned her mother to get the money for herself.
- Food Fight: Combine with Cat Fight. When Emilia refuses to move while Ivy politely tries to leave during the family dinner with The Ardiente Family, Ivy grows impatient and shoves the cake (that Emilia was holding) to Emilia's face and an enraged Emilia starts fighting with Ivy while the cake smears on them.
Is my grammar good enough to send?
Note: Yes, I am aware that there are other volunteers and I shouldn't rely on one person but two days ago and probably today they were not available. And I am a changed person so I didn't beg in a post nor I do send a pm complaint about something anymore.
Edited by Bubblepigresolved Ban evader
Hello. Recently I have made a discussion on The Jungle Book page (and left an edit reason mentioning it without making any edits).
Currently only one user named Donner has responded to my discussion so far. While there was nothing suspicious about his response, I noticed Donner’s account was just created in March 2024.
While there is nothing wrong with a new user discussing things, and they haven’t actually done anything, I have made some recent discoveries about a recently deleted user named Thorion.
In the past I made an Ask The Tropers post trying to find out if Thorion and dkadugo were the same person, and geolocation proved it false.
However while they are not the same person, I have reason to believe that Thorion DID have another account on here under the username Jet 556. If that name sounds familiar, Jet 556 was a user who was suspended back in 2015(and I don’t think they were ever released from suspension, as their last edits were on July 30, 2015, though I could be wrong).
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=jet556&page=1
While Thorion’s account age was listed simply as “4 score and 7 years ago”, according to their edit history, their first edits were on July 31, 2015, while Jet 556 was suspended. And his first edits were on the same page that Jet 556 made his last edits on.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Thorion&page=67
It actually goes beyond similar edits and interests though.
Thorion had made several TV Tropes pages, as well as a fanfic rec, of fanfics written by a writer named, you guessed it, Jet 556!
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.TheEvabonSaga&page=1
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.EnterKenFinlayson&page=1
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanficRecs/Detentionaire
Thorion was openly promoting the work of someone with the same username as a suspended user here!
It seems like there was at least some sort of connection between Thorion and Jet 556.
Again, there is a chance I could be wrong(as I have been in the past). Maybe they were relatives or close friends. Maybe Thorion was just a big Jet 556 fan. Thorion would act like Jet was a different person whole talking about him and reviewing Jet’s work(though considering that Jet 556 was suspended, it’s obvious why Thorion would try to pass himself off as a different person). Maybe they are the same, but Thorion simply requested a new account and the moderators allowed it(though considering Jet 556 was suspended, I doubt it). But I would be very surprised if they weren’t the same. If this was already brought up and debunked, I apologize. I haven’t seen any evidence that this has been cleared up, though.
Anyway, Thorion deleted his account, and last I checked jet556 was suspended back in 2015(and possibly banned), so nothing can be done about those accounts.
I am only bringing this up because in his last PM to me before deleting his account Thorion said he would “accept whatever punishment he received”, but he deleted his account(and I don’t know if he did it while under suspension, which would be a bounce, or if he did it before), and now this new Donner account, just created in March 2024 after Thorion deleted his account, is the only person to respond in my discussion so far. And if my suspicions are true, then Thorion has likely ban evaded in the past, meaning there is a chance for him to do it again.
If geolocation confirms Donner is a different person, then that’s fine. I’ve been wrong before. Again, nothing really suspicious other than the account’s age. They’ve only made a few edits so far so it’s difficult to tell at this point(they edited on some of the same pages Thorion did, but Thorion’s edited on a LOT of pages and Donner has also edited pages Thorion hasn’t, so there’s no real evidence). I just want to know because a discussion can’t really be had against a possible ban evader for numerous reasons.
Again, sorry to bother you about this.
Update: Posted more evidence of Donner likely being jet556/Thorion in the replies.
Edited by Clownishchimpresolved "Stealing" someone else's edit?
I know this wiki isn't actually about credit for providing examples, context and such but is it actually possible to "steal" and edit of a page, i.e. delete the entry and then add it yourself in a way it doesn't show in page history?
I don't remember every single thing I wrote here but still have a disturbing suspicion that I was the one who wrote this entry
.
resolved Promotion to franchise page
What process must be followed if one wishes for a work page covering a series to be "promoted" to a franchise page? Such as if the series has already gathered a lot of installments, and it may start getting unwieldy for a single page to list a lot of tropes that only apply to specific installments rather than the series overall; or if the series extends to more than one medium. (Obviously, individual work pages would have to be made for each installment as well, but that's the easy part, even if it is time consuming).
In my case, I believe Len'en is at the point where it needs to become a franchise page, with each installment getting to have its own work page. The reasons will be laid out across the upcoming paragraphs.
There are already five games (and a sixth is in development), and the fourth game in particular, Len'en Ten'eisenki ~ Brilliant Pagoda or Haze Castle, due to its very different gameplay from previous installments and its sheer amount of content, will eventually gather too many tropes that apply only to itself and no other games in the series, which can get unwieldy when everything is listed on a series-wide page.
Furthermore, the latest game, Len'en Cafe ~ Book of the Cafe already has its own work page, which is indeed very useful since it's an entirely different genre from the other games and thus will have several tropes absent from the rest of the series.
Lastly, the series isn't even just video games; there is a music video titled Critical Point Bidding Its Last Farewell and a music album titled A World Outside Fantasy ~Len'en Mugenri~. (Albeit neither has been mentioned on the Len'en page in this wiki yet; I thought of adding them myself but am holding off on editing the page any further to focus on settling my concerns here).
Several weeks back, I made a discussion post on the work page summarizing my concerns in one paragraph to see if anyone agrees with my assessment, but it has been ignored due to low activity on the page.
(Oh, and while we're at it, the page should use the full title of the series, Len'en Project, just like how the page for Touhou was changed to Touhou Project for the same reason).
So, is there a specific forum or thread or other kind of place where I should take these concerns so whether it can be done is discussed and decided, or anything else I'm supposed to do to formally propose/enact the change?
Edited by yokaipinataresolved Edit War on Characters/UndeadUnluckGodAndTheSuperiorRules Anime
- March 17th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac changed the images for the characters "Soul", "Death", "Change", and "Language" on the Undead Unluck: God and The Superior Rules page without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper Rebel Falcon (Myself) reverted entries.
- Edit Reason: Image changes need to be approved via an Image Pickin thread.
- March 18th, 2024
, Troper UnCorrectManiac instigated Edit War by undoing reversion, as well as changed the image for character "Luck" without opening an Image Pickin thread.
- Edit Reason: If you believe the new images do not fit the page than feel free to make an Image Pickin' thread to argue your case, but at the moment it seems silly to revert them back without doing so. Every other image on this page was added with the Image Pickin Thread being needed before hand, I don't see why these should be any different unless your actually willing to explain why in a thread. If there is already a thread for UU I'd love to take part in it, but I could not find it myself.
resolved Quick question
This may sound silly, but when dewicking, should the item moved from Useful Notes page to Media Notes page?
My common sense say yes, but seeing there're 30+ entries of Media Notes namespace on Useful Notes, as well as Main/ like Theatre, it's occurred to me that the namespace itself might be irrelevant.
resolved Stock Foreign Name needs to be split into sub pages.
Stock Foreign Name is becoming a very long page and I had plan to add more context to some examples, which will only make it longer.
I don't know if I can take this decision by myself. So that's why I'm asking.
resolved Edit warring on the Voltes V Legacy YMMV page
I removed the Germans Love David Hasselhoff entry over there because apart from being messy and over cluttered like whoever put it there was trying way too hard to prove a point, I looked at the lists and it showed nothing but positive first impressions and the tropers who put it there making assumptions based on those. It's particularly egregious how they even listed individual comments/notes from random individuals and fansubs. I mean, fansubs can simply mean a show has a very small cult following or even just curious individuals who dubbed something for the heck of it. It doesn't prove anything, as far as I'm aware. Even more egregious is the fact that Voltes V Legacy is only seeing what appears to be a dub in Spanish speaking countries, and when I looked at it, it's not even an officially sanctioned dub, just the passion project of a certain few individuals who were fans of the original Voltes V anime and not necessarily the live-action show itself. There's no real evidence that the show became an audience favorite based on those lists.
I'm bringing the issue here because someone who contributed to that entry's list of info decided to readd the deleted entry
after I removed it. I'll concede if the list is enough proof to list as GLDH, but I still would like to hear others' takes on what really counts as proof of a GLDH situation.
resolved Self-recommended fanfic at GoW: Ragnarok, remove or hide?
Was cleaning up the FanficRecs.God Of War PS 4 and while checking through the history, Cisco The Soto had self-recommended their own fic
in 2023. On the one hand, that's in violation of the "No Self-Recommendations" rule at Fan Fic Recommendations. At the same time, there's already a Trope page for the fic created by Darklightprince in 2024. Should I remove that entry, or hide it?
resolved Question about Fandom Rivalry on a web creator's YMMV page
So this is kind of a very-weird, very-major hot button issue (outside of this site anyway), but I feel like it should be addressed.
A few people have added to/altered a Fandom Rivalry entry on Illymation's YMMV page about recent controversy she's going through in regards to beef with another channel. The entry goes more in depth, but basically the issue is about a video they made, which spiralled out of control when she told her Tumblr followers to flag the video.
I'm worried about this for a couple reasons—number one being that a lot of what people currently know about the issue is...pretty grossly exaggerated. The complaint that she tried to deplatform TBYS, which first came from the latter himself, isn't very trustworthy; Illy's Tumblr account apparently had only around 100 views before it was deleted (given the lack of tags in her name
, I think that's pretty believable), and the way the strike system works doesn't account for the sheer number of reports, just judgment on YouTube's part after they see the issue; assuming he doesn't have any strikes already, they would just give him a warning.
There's a lot of other background that I don't want to address for obvious reasons, but the second issue is mainly about how recent this drama is; I know there's no hard-and-fast rule about No Recent Examples, Please! for Fandom Rivalry, but should it apply here? Mainly asking because we're still probably missing a lot of the full context for what precisely happened.
Just trying to give my two cents based on what I've seen/researched. I know I might sound biased (and I'd add more of the background if I knew for sure that it wouldn't add fuel to the fire), but I genuinely think the entry is problematic.
Edited by Coachpillresolved Validity of an example Literature
Wasn't sure where to put this, didn't seem like it belonged in "Is this an Example". I was adding something to ThenLetMeBeEvil.Literature and happened to find this:
- Fagin in Oliver Twist is such an anti-Semitic caricature that Dickens himself grew ashamed at the remonstrations of several Jewish acquaintances, mended his beliefs, and wrote much more sympathetic Jewish characters in the future. However, since Oliver Twist was so popular and has so frequently been adapted, the adapters have had to deal with the Unfortunate Implications somehow. Some of them have used this, depicting Fagin's villainy less as a stereotype and more as an understandable response to the grinding poverty and degradation he would have suffered due to the relentless classism and anti-Semitism in England in the period.
The whole example is basically complaining about Fagin being a Greedy Jew stereotype, which, fair enough! But the example
- doesn't even get to illustrating the trope until halfway through.
- isn't actually an example for the linked source material but rather about unnamed adaptations.
- is violating Examples Are Not General by not specifying any adaptations in particular.
So I think this should probably be cut. Agreed?
Edited by StarSword

Is it ok to directly cite answers generated by this program in answer to a question posed on a Headscratchers page? In this case, I had searched the work's wiki pages for relevant information, but it had nothing more to offer than the work itself. Furthermore, as it can be hard to do a granular search using a search engine for a very specific question like the one (for the work) I have in mind, and in the absence of any other troper stepping up (to date) to answer the question, AND as the answer appears to hold up (doesn't show any typical AI-anomalies or peculiar interpretations of the content), I don't think there's any harm to this approach?
Edited by FlashSteps