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resolved About Dear Negative Reader
I wanted to add an example of Dear Negative Reader to Trivia.Saints Row 2022, I saw that an example already exists on Main.Dear Negative Reader, but it's complainy and bloaty:
- Saints Row (2022) became rather infamous for this. The game was announced as a reboot of the Saints Row series that was Revisiting the Roots, and fans were initially hyped with the graffiti wall art that updated itself leading up to the announcement trailer's release. However, when said trailer dropped, the fans' reactions to it were quite negative. In response, the community managers at Deep Silver, the series' publisher since Saints Row IV, started badmouthing people who were unhappy with the reboot's direction, including making tweets like "Haters gonna hate", and deleting negative comments that criticized series developer Volition from the reboot's videos. Although Volition apologized and removed the offending tweet, the damage was done. Many people were turned off by the game's direction and Deep Silver's hostility towards the fanbase and swore off playing the Saints Row reboot, while those who stuck around and played the game found it to be an Obvious Beta, despite being delayed from its intended February 2022 release date to August for quality assurance purposes. This caused the reboot to underperform critically and financially, which resulted in Embracer Group, the parent company of Deep Silver, transferring Volition's staff to Gearbox Software and then subsequently shutting down the company in August of 2023, just a year after the reboot's launch.
I then managed to cut it down to this:
- After the inital trailer for Saints Row (2022) dropped, The community managers at Deep Silver, the series' publisher since Saints Row IV, started badmouthing people who were unhappy with the reboot's direction, including making tweets like "Haters gonna hate", and deleting comments that criticized series developer Volition from the reboot's videos for a while before the game's release.
I've also seen plenty of examples that are just complaining about creators engaging in this, like the one about Bomberman Act:Zero:
- Hudson Soft infamously had a huge meltdown in response to the equally infamous Bomberman Act:Zero's negative reception and posted an article
on their website primarily dedicated to attacking fans and defending Act Zero. As it repeatedly insulted the older Bomberman games by insinuating they were meant for children, undermined fan favorite Saturn Bomberman's ten-player mode, heavily implied that the only people who played the single-player modes in Bomberman games were losers,note Most likely due to Act:Zero's singleplayer mode getting heavy criticism for Fake Difficulty. and told fans who were upset to play with Hello Kitty toys... yeah, it didn't go over well. It didn't help that the series was already going through an Audience-Alienating Era. While Hudson eventually apologized for the piece, the damage was done—several gaming sites lambasted them for the public tantrum and the controversy ultimately played a hand in their 2012 bankruptcy and merger with Konami.
This all makes me wonder, should we take this trope to TRS? Just the very nature of it just attracts creator bashing and drama importation. And should I go ahead with replacing the Saints Row example that I just cut down?
Edited by PlasmaPowerresolved Adding to The Bible?
The Bible is edit locked, undoubtedly for good reasons.
I have a couple of tropes where The Bible is cited that I would like to add:
- Dying Reconciliation: Some people interpret The Bible's command not to "let the sun go down on your anger" as this; not a command against being angry at all,note or related to literal sundown, but a statement that Christians should try to reconcile with a person if they expect they will be separated from them for a long time (or forever).
- "Run Your Own Race" Aesop: A frequent lesson in The Bible is to concern one's self with one's own situation.
- "Attend to the beam in thine own eye before attending to the mote in thy neighbor's."
- Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.
- When Peter asks Jesus of John's fate, Jesus says, "What is that to thee? Follow you Me."
resolved Fldl
Fldl
has had problems with their spelling and grammar and zero context examples since the beginning of their edit history. I've sent several notifiers since June, and today I received a reply from them in which they told me to go watch the show in question to find out the context for myself (and also assumed my gender), meaning that they're clearly not listening.
resolved G-Liguria
G-Liguria
is not getting how Hindsight tropes work, particularly wrong-way hindsight.
It began here
; they apparently added
a bunch of wrong-way hindsight examples to Donkey Kong Bananza, which another troper deleted
for being wrong-way hindsight. Despite the deletion being correct, as the entries all pertained to things that occurred before the work was released, G-Liguria sent the troper a notifier, which caused them to doubt if they did the right thing or not. I myself
and other tropers agreed that the deletion was correct, and so the notifier should have not been sent, because there was nothing wrong with the deletion.
With this, I sent G-Liguria a misuse notifier, and they got rather argumentative in the reply, not understanding why it was wrong-way hindsight. But even after I sent them another PM and quite clearly explained that Hindsight refers to the work itself being seen as hilarious/harsher/heartwarming thanks to events that happened after the work was released, they still refused to believe it, citing another Hindsight-related page...that is also full of wrong-way hindsight examples. Since it seems that they're not getting it, I've brought it up here.
Edited by UFOYeahresolved How to Handle a Specific TLP Draft Sponsor
I have a question regarding the TLP draft Alternating Scream Cut
. The trope itself seems valid, but my main issues stem from the sponsor themselves, Willow Jackson.
Most of the examples Willow added to the draft (which are not pulled from the replies) have a lot of issues. This mainly involves writing examples as Nightmare Fuel or Played for Horror regardless of context, using an excessive amount of web links for examples, and focusing on wittiness instead of being clear and concise.
I have tried to explain to Willow about these issues multiple
times
now
, but none of my replies resulted in Willow fixing their draft. What's even weirder is that Willow has been on this site since 2022, and their edit history is three pages long, so I can't tell if this is a case of an inexperienced troper trying to do a TLP draft or not.
I want to know what I can do about this sponsor. Should we inform Willow, wait a bit longer for them to fix their draft, or Take a Third Option?
resolved Papyrus char page (undertale) Videogame
How do i make a self demonstrating article for him? Sans has one so i feel like Papyrus deserves one too.
resolved Self-help book index
Is there some index on tvtropes about self-help books? I have other websites I can check, but it has scifi literature, fantasy, young adult, mystery, horror, etc. so I guess there was this too.
resolved Fairly new troper making suspicious edits
~stemy is a troper who joined around May this year, and in the TRS just posted an improperly-formatted thread
for All Gays Are Pedophiles whose entire point of concern is not just something that can be sorted out in a Trope Description repair thread, but is also pretty eyebrow-raising, because it takes umbrage with the "Nowadays this is a Discredited Trope" part:
Out of curiosity, I went to check on their edit history, and while there's a decent amount of impartial, non-problematic edits, there were a few that definitely blinked as being a bit agenda-y:
- Adding an improperly-indented justifying edit
to Just Ignore It that segregates "trolls" and "internet jerks" in a vague way, phrased as to imply that Just Ignore It is an invalid practice. This has since been removed.
- Adding an entry
to BrokenAesop.Harry Potter criticizing JK Rowling for "breaking her own morals" based on her real-life history of transphobia. This has also since been removed.
- Adding this entry
to UncertainAudience.Live Action Films that only exists to complain about Ghostbusters (2016) and Ocean's 8 in the same sentence (two movies separated by a few years and by different studios) solely on the basis of "has female cast", uses language like "They are seen as useless and effortless remakes by the majority of the public, looks like a liberal fanservice for conservatist audience and disorienting liberal audience not knowing if the gender bending was supposed to be a really clumsy representation of women or mocking their revendications[sic?] for more diversity."
- Adding an odd expansion
to Red Scare in the sentence "The Red Scare is different from works genuinely critical of the Soviet governments and specific aspects of the ideology.", adding "...and it often involves leftist ideologies that can't be remotely qualified as communism." I don't treat this as strictly inappropriate, but adding this without elaboration, especially in conjunction with everything else about their edit history makes me tilt my head a little.
- And just today
, they're constructing Analysis.Misaimed Fandom, an incomplete, improperly-formatted stub that wants to list the reasons for Misaimed Fandom, but presently isn't doing much beyond saying "fandoms miss the point".
Normally I'd just brush these off as incidental, but their TRS thread really propped up a red flag in them trying to push "people don't care about LGBTQ people anymore, conservatives are still queerphobic; I fixed your description". Did they ever receive notifiers of their previous and now-removed political edits? I feel like they should be aware at this point that regardless of where they put it, moralizing of this sort is discouraged and should be discussed beforehand.
Edited by number9roboticresolved Question about Recap Pages
Are Recap pages allowed to have tropes referencing or mentioning a later episode of the same show or another work in the series? I ask this because I was looking through some of the Recap pages for Avatar: The Last Airbender and a large number of them contain either trope examples referencing a later episode or trope examples referencing a different work entirely. Like these examples in Avatar: The Last Airbender "The Swamp"
- Foreshadowing:
- The mask cart that passes Iroh and Zuko in the opening scene bears the Blue Spirit mask. At the end of the episode, Zuko reassumes his Blue Spirit alter-ego.
- The Foggy Swamp Tribe's unorthodox application of waterbending (bending the water within the plants) foreshadows darker applications of the art shown later.
- The spirit vine that hits the bird at the end, and the swamp itself, which foreshadow a big revelation in The Legend of Korra about the Spirit World.
- While begging for money, Iroh sings a song about how great the girls from Ba Sing Se are, much to Zuko's irritation. Later, Iroh hooks Zuko up with a Ba Sing Se girl.
I'm pretty sure that this isn't allowed as Recap pages are about tropes that occur in that specific episode, but I wanted to ask and make sure first before I edit them out
resolved Make Your Mark Page image changed without discussion
User FaolanCortez
changed the page image for WesternAnimation.My Little Pony Make Your Mark. I reverted it and explained he had to consult the Image Pickin’ forum if he wanted to change the page image, but then he changed it back again and claimed it was a “image quality upgrade”
For reference, this was the original image:

I’m not gonna change it back otherwise I’m dragging myself into another edit war. Any thoughts, or should I have brought this to the IP myself?
Edited by BlueBlazesresolved Is spoilering out an entire example fine with the spoiler policy? Western Animation
So I noticed on both WesternAnimation.K Pop Demon Hunters and YMMV.K Pop Demon Hunters that the same troper, ReginaldOgron5, edited two separate entries for the same reason: they're both completely
spoilered out
(though for the YMMV example I can at least understand a little more, with the Fan Wank explanation).
My concern is... there's multiple other completely spoilered out examples on both of those pages? And the thing is, not only are both of those examples not Self Fulfilling Spoilers, but they're also... actual spoilers that should be spoilered?
So I'm just wondering... is this correct? Is a completely spoilered out example fine?
Edited by Eisnerresolved Is "All-New Venom" page overdoing it a little with the Paul hate? Literature
I noticed recent edits to All-New Venom seem to be definitively describing Paul Rabin as an abusive asshole selfishly gaslighting and brainwashing Mary Jane into staying with him when she clearly still loves Peter Parker.
Now, I don't like Paul any more than... well... pretty much everyone, including the writers and artists at Marvel, but that strikes me as going into Alternative Character Interpretation territory—indeed, Paul being an abusive asshole who uses gaslighting and dark magic to manipulate MJ into staying with him when she still loves Peter Parker is mentioned under Alternative Character Interpretation on the YMMV page.
If anything, Paul is depicted as a Butt-Monkey who's effectively being cuckolded by the Venom symbiote and is disrespected by Dylan Brock at every available opportunity despite reaching out to the latter and trying to be a supportive father figure.
Edited by Arawn999resolved Colonel-Knight-Rider and The Super Mario Bros. Movie Hate
Okay, so a certain troper, Colonel-Knight-Rider, has been adding multiple They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character entries on the YMMV section of The Super Mario Bros. Movie and one of them especially stuck out to me as being especially nitpicky.
- Spike. His only reason for being in the movie is to drive home the point further that Mario and Luigi hated their old jobs, whatever they were, hence their plumbing business; and that they've received unjust derision for their ambitions, which they've already received repeatedly from their father. Beyond that, he does nothing to help or hinder Mario's quest to save Luigi. And, during the final battle, pretty much all Spike does is notice Bowser's castle popping up in Brooklyn before fleeing from the unusual sight. If Spike disappeared from the movie, the Mario Bros. would still undergo the same character arc of trying to win their father's approval. (By contrast, the activities of what many consider to be his 1993 movie counterpart Anthony Scapelli kickstart the Bros.' whole interdimensional adventure!)
Ignoring the fact that Spike's whole point in the movie is to be a minor character, he actually does impact the plot in some way by being one of the main reasons for why Mario feels so "small" and "insignificant" to everyone and adding to Mario's motivation of wanting to feel more important, which is what motivates him to fix a flooding in Brooklyn and therefore leads him and Luigi to the Mushroom Kingdom and the Dark Lands respectively and the rest is history. Also some weird 1993 movie glazing because Vindicated by History I guess.
Also the troper who added this, Colonel-Knight-Rider, seemingly has a serious vendetta and hatred towards this movie as they have been adding constant negative examples and downright complainy edits at times to their examples in this movie's YMMV section (with them also citing a random YouTuber, The Little Platoon, who gave a negative review towards the movie in many of their YMMV edits and examples for some reason)
This is their edit about said YouTuber in the Awesome Music section for some reason.
- While YouTube commentator The Little Platoon argued that the movie wasted a lot of opportunities to do something original with its source material to create a unique experience one couldn't get from just playing a game, he, too, stated that he enjoyed Tyler's score, citing it as the most redeeming aspect of the film by balancing the familiar with the new.
This is their edit about said YouTuber again on the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot section.
- Another complaint among fans, particularly YouTube commentators such as The Little Platoon, is that the movie wasted its potential to do something more with its references besides simply showing them to appeal to nostalgia for the games—specifically, to use them to build a more complex and intricate world with them and develop the main and supporting cast more, as well as to take time to introduce the characters and the world they inhabit to people who might not know who they are (sure, Mario and Luigi are pretty well-known even in non-fan circles, but not as many non-fans know who Peach, Bowser, Toad, Kamek, etc. are), in a manner similar to how the Marvel Cinematic Universe introduced its characters to non-Marvel Comics fans and expanded the Marvel fanbase as a result.
All of this implies a possible case of Single-Issue Wonk is at foot here. For example, this is a Kong section that they added to the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character section with an especially complainy part at the end that was edited out by another troper.
- The Kongs themselves. Even if Peach had never taken Mario and Toad to the Jungle Kingdom, Mario still would have trained more to learn how different power-ups work and how to navigate different obstacles, used the power-ups to be a One-Man Army and save Luigi and the other hostages, accidentally transported the principle players and Bowser's castle to Brooklyn, gotten a hold of the Super Star, and saved the day, just like he does in the final cut. In that sense, the Kongs, like a lot of stuff in this movie, were added solely for nostalgic appeal and contribute nothing to the outcome of the story whatsoever.
This is not the first time they’ve done this too. They did this before on January this year as well with just as much of an egregiously complainy addition at the end as well. I deleted this one myself because of how egregiously complainy it was as well as giving reasons as to why the Kongs were necessary to the plot of the movie.
- The Kongs. With or without them, Mario still would've trained to perfection (and likely learned more about how powerups work, so he'd know which to use to save the prisoners himself without Donkey Kong's strength) rescued Luigi, created a dimensional merge with the Bomber Bill, and saved the day with the Super Star, just like he did. Effectively, with the Bros. being a one- (or two-) man army, Peach didn't need help from the Kongs at all, but they were clearly included nonetheless to pad out the runtime and for nostalgic appeal, as were a fair bit of things in this movie.
I tried DMing them to stop with their seemingly Single-Issue Wonk behavior regarding this movie and they did at first adjust and edit their Kong example to be more fair and less complainy as shown here:
- The Kongs, at least those excluding Donkey Kong. Even if Peach had never taken Mario and Toad to the Jungle Kingdom, Mario still would have trained more to learn how different power-ups work and how to navigate different obstacles, used the power-ups to be a One-Man Army and save Luigi and the other hostages (possibly with a strength-granting power-up like the Mega Mushroom), accidentally transported the principle players and Bowser's castle to Brooklyn, gotten a hold of the Super Star, and saved the day, just like he does in the final cut. All while not being eaten by the Maw-Ray as a result of never traveling by Kong-made Karts. Although it could be counter-argued that DK's strength is necessary to hoist the prisoners to freedom, with the prospect of saving his species as his motive, the rest of the Kongs don't really get a chance to do what they were hired for after that and fight against Bowser's forces.
and I thought they had stopped altogether, but they have since then continued to add more negative examples like the "Spike" one as well as a So Okay, It's Average example towards the movie as well.
- In the view of professional and amateur critics alike, while the movie succeeds in avoiding Illumination's usual film structure and offers some impressive animation, orchestral scoring, and obvious passion for the source material, it doesn't offer much else beyond that. So, it's a fun, harmless means of escapism Mario fans of all ages with a good few memorable action sequences, and it took a labor of love to create every piece of eye and ear candy, but those expecting to see groundbreaking plot development, complex character dynamics, and meta-humor on par with those of The LEGO Movie or Barbie shouldn't get their hopes up high.
This is an Ass Pull entry that they added on January this year that I deleted for reasons explaining how it’s not an Ass Pull.
- Toad is somehow able to smuggle an ice flower into Peach's wedding bouquet so she can use it to freeze Bowser despite the movie not showing how he got it, let alone in a giant floating castle island made of volcanic rock.
I went to the They Wasted A Perfectly Good Cleanup forum
and they gave me permission to delete their They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character entries so I already took care of those.
Is there anything we should do about the others?
Edited by Fireball246resolved What if a work doesn't have an official English translation? Web Original
It's exclusively in Korean. There isn't any fan translations either. Do I translate the work's title and character names into English myself?
Edited by BriliantDropresolved Preventing edit war from continuing Film
The troper ~Remnant 43 has been repeatedly adding Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist to the villain Remmick's character sheet on Sinners (2025). They first did so here
, giving an edit reason. I disagree with the use of the trope and others did too as another troper, ~Wet Flannels altered the trope back to Well-Intentioned Extremist here
. Remnant altered it back once again here
with a frankly rude and accusatory edit reason this time.
This feels rather like the issue we ran into with one troper insisting Charles zi Britannia from Code Geass was a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist based on the work's protagonist's line about him being selfish. A villain can be selfish and have a god complex. Well-Intentioned Extremist just requires they believe in what they're saying and this applies to Remmick. He's absorbing people in his vampire Hive Mind and wants to recreate his lost culture but he repeatedly states it will be a happy world, he believes in equality and Remnant's arguments hit of trying to play up the fact he has negative traits to allege his good intentions are wholly shut down, which isn't the case.
That's my stance at least, the much bigger problem is Remnant continually re-adding the trope and their attitude given in their latest edit reason.
Thoughts?
Edited by PassingThroughresolved YMMY page for The Cape (2012)
I've a question about the page for the comic book miniseries The Cape
. My question comes from the fact that long time ago, Eric Chase from the series was approved as a CM by the troper Ravok and since the page was created long after his approval, it is not on the YMMY page (in fact, there is no YMMY page abouyt the comic). Here's the entry:
Eric Chase is a lazy and selfish sociopath who discovers that his childhood cape grants him the ability of flight, and chooses to use this power to stroke his own ego. First brutally murdering his girlfriend after he becomes paranoid she is cheating on him, Eric, as detailed in the interquel Fallen, is struck by a crisis of conscience that he ultimately ignores, embracing his inner vileness as he massacres an entire group of LAR Pers he was hanging out with. Later using his own mother as a hostage in an attempt to burn his hated brother alive, Eric murders several police officers investigating him — a pair of them by dropping a live bear on top of their car — before downing an entire airplane his mother is on, killing her and hundreds of people at once. Though once a sweet child desperate for his father's approval, Eric knowingly and willingly becomes a monster in adulthood, refusing to take guilt or responsibility for his life and instead blaming everyone around him for his faults, and deciding that the punishment for them all should be death.
My question is if I can add the entry and the YMMY page myself, if I should mention it here, or if a thread for the matter exists.
resolved Permission to revert edit without conducting Edit War. Webcomic
On May 31st
, TF Razorsaw moved the character folder for "Zenith" from Digimon Liberator from the "Debugging Team" section to the "Other" section, with the edit reason "Zenith is not part of the debugging team, he was a Guest-Star Party Member."
I shortly after contacted them via PM and pointed out that, as stated on the official website, Zenith is part of the Debugging Team.
resolved What do I do with a fanfic rec if the fanfic in question no longer exists?
So I recently discovered that the links on the page for a Danny Phantom crackfic best known as The Crack no longer work. In addition, I did a quick Google search to see if the fanfic itself still exists in some form, and it seems it doesn't.
I already went ahead and sent requests for both it and its YMMV page over to the Cut List to be deleted. After I did that, I discovered that the fanfic is listed as a recommendation in the fanfic recs page for Danny Phantom.
So what happens now? Will the recommendation stay up, or will it have to be deleted soon since the fanfic is now lost media?
Edited by ArielLightningresolved Do NREP apply for spoilers in games where one server is perpetually ahead of the others?
So, while I'm editing the Reverse: 1999 Character page a bit, I saw this commented-out warning:
I feel like the NREP link is misused as it's more about tropes that have mandatory waiting periods. Also, When handling spoiler contents from a game server that is ahead of the other servers, is it disallowed to gatekeep those lore spoilers or refrain from adding anything about new characters once the fan translation is up?

User Emerald Source has a problem with Unilateral Editing, as they seem to have a habit of overhauling descriptions of tropes without running it through Trope Description Improvement Drive, or providing any edit reasons. One of these edits
on Ms. Fanservice was noticed back in May 13th by some users on the aforementioned forum thread, which they sent a notifier for (seen here
), but Emerald Source has continued the habit regardless, as one can see through a few edits in their post-May 13th edit history:
But what's perhaps even more concerning is their edits to trope descriptions that add or remove to it's meaning, thus changing it's identity as a whole. Again, these are all done without discussion or edit reasons, despite having been sent a notifier:
All of this doesn't even mention the fact that their edit in Ms. Fanservice uses the word "females" to refer to women, and replaces a mention of "straight men" to just "men", even though the distinction of the sexual attraction is important in that context. These by themselves seem like red flags, and leads me to believe that sending another notifer would be like talking to a brick wall.