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resolved Possible ROCEJ pattern
nm3youtube has made a few edits lately that may be worth looking into for their potential ROCEJ-ness.
- On this page
, they turned this paragraph:
- While Belos was already feared as an authoritarian dictator his motives of being an anti-witch zealot and his abuse of Hunter make him far more terrifying, due to the abuse the real people face under religious households, and the atrocities committed in their name.
- into this (a lot more religiously/politically charged):
- While Belos was already feared as an authoritarian dictator his motives of being an anti-witch zealot and his abuse of Hunter make him far more terrifying, due to the abuse real people—especially LGBT people, who are readily accepted in the Boiling Isles, and people with interests their family considers "Satanic"—which is potentially everything even alluding to the concept of magic—face under fundamentalist religious households, and the atrocities both historical and modern religious zealots have committed in their God's name.
- Here
, as part of a Values Dissonance page, they changed a simple "...especially in The New '10s" to "...especially in The New '10s when J. K. Rowling's increasingly outspoken transphobia caused people to start paying attention to the series' politics".
- Then there's this (rather irrelevant) note they added to an entry on a SBIH page
:
- which became Hilarious in Hindsight when Russian dictator Vladimir Putin compared the shunning of Russia after the 2022 invasion of Ukraine to the controversy surrounding J. K. Rowling's outspoken transphobia, forcing Rowling to explicitly distance herself from him
resolved Potential edit war over the same example
In this query
, I reported Stellavore for removing an example with a rude edit reason
that had more to do with the trope name being changed than the example itself. The example was restored
, and Stellavore has removed it again
.
resolved Do self-demonstrating pages get Laconics? Print Comic
Laconic.The Joker is a laconic for SelfDemonstrating.The Joker. Is this allowed?
resolved Tux1
Tux 1
's edits are...kind of odd.
resolved A troper added information that is irrelevant / too early to tell Film
I was checking out the King Richard page, and noticed that Troper ovskii
added further information on Win Back the Crowd in the YMMV.King Richard page. The entry originally spoke solely about Will Smith's performance earning back respect from fans and critics after having a spotty filmography as of late. The information that was added earlier today by ovskii has entirely to do with the Oscars controversy.
Since (1) the Oscars just happened this past Sunday — not even a week has passed as of this original post — and I've seen various ATT posts and forum posts here on TVTropes discussing how the controversy is still too soon and recent to say anything about Smith's legacy, and (2) the added information is irrelevant to Smith's performance itself, should that added information still be there, or should it be deleted?
Here is the information added by ovskii: "[...] Sadly, and completely independent of his performance, his popularity dropped dramatically on the very night of his Oscar win, due to him assaulting Chris Rock on stage over a joke about his wife, which then led to Smith resigning from the Academy in shame a few days later."
UPDATE: To any moderator who sees this: request to close out this post as resolved?
Edited by mouschilightresolved How to suggest a rename for a trope?
Ever since I saw the Everything Has Rhythm trope existed, I've been thinking it should be renamed to Rhythm And Brooms.
The reason for this is because the stereotype involves brooms being used as a makeshift dance partner, and is a pun of “rhythm and blues”.
I haven't suggested it, because A) I don't know where one would go to do that. And B) I don't want to do it myself, as I'm pretty sure that changing a trope name without consultation is tantamount to vandalism.
Anyone willing to give me a hand?
Edited by Trogdor7620resolved Bloated-if-not-questionable Cowboy Bebop At His Computer example Web Original
On the Trivia page for Jimquisition, there's a Cowboy BeBop at His Computer example that was added and serial tweaked across last November, and while I already take issue with the unwieldy length of the example, I watched the episode it's referring to, and I'm not sure it's accurate. Here's what it is:
- In "Why Emulating Nintendo Games Is Good, Probably"
, Jim kept equating Piracy and Emulation as one in the same throughout the video; which it is not. Piracy would be stealing a game rom to play on an emulator, whereas emulators themselves is the means to play said game. While they can be used to play pirated games, if one is prepared enough, you can just dump the games yourself (something all emulators suggest you do specifically to avoid lawsuits and copyright infringement). Jim doesn't seem to realise that emulators can also do a lot more than just play games. You can outright make homebrew games for that system, mod the game to make it look better with texture packs and custom levels, or use cheat codes to enhance the experience. None of this was mentioned by them, despite being perfectly legal activities to do, and also a draw to emulator enthusiasts. If emulators were the driving issue, Nintendo and other game companies would've attempted to sue them all years agonote and there is a reason most emulators are open source; to prove to the companies and their users that their code is not stolen from outside sources or was made with a leaked companies' data. The premise of the video is also flawed because they claim games media doesn't talk about emulation because it's a taboo subject, and goes off on a tangent about how the media relies too much on connections to get news and review copies. While the observation is mostly true, It doesn't occur to them that a press outlet featuring emulators semi-frequently will inevitably lead to the Streisand Effect; more people pirating games to try out the emulator because they heard it in an article that would otherwise not feature it (something Jim themselves is an example of; Jim went out and bought a handheld game emulator loaded with what they imply are illegitimately obtained roms because they wanted to use an emulator to protest against Nintendo's online service that they found out via a news article via Kotaku).
Except the video doesn't treat piracy and emulation as the same thing. In fact, going off of the way that Jim words themselves, the video acknowledges and understands that piracy is a mere facet of emulation more than it is the same thing. Jim's video treats it as part of the bigger issue of how Nintendo does nothing to make their service worth the money in the face of people being able to access their older games for free illegitimately, and it seems like that's the actual premise of the video more than the topic of gaming media being coy about emulation, especially since the early portion revolves around an article that's being anything but coy about it. More to the point, the video backs this distinction up further by explicitly pointing out that the Kotaku article in question isn't encouraging piracy so much as it's reporting on something that's proven to be possible on emulation software.
From what I can conclude from rewatching the video, this example seems to revolve around a lack of distinction that not only isn't visible anywhere in the video, but wouldn't have been important to the video's point even if it was. It can't just be me noticing this, right?
At the very least, the example looks like it could do with a trim and a tiny bit of grammar cleanup, if we were to keep it.
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved I have a proposal for Complete Monster, where do I submit? Live Action TV
I have a proposal for a complete monster. It's Yuri from Girl From Nowhere, she fits all of the archetypes to be a Complete Monster:
- She had a mom, but after she got Nanno's powers, she has completely abandoned her and didn't give a damn to check on her, which foreshadowed her selfish and callous nature.
- Her freudian excuse of Nana and Tuptim having her raped by their goons for their snuff ring ended up being redundant because throughout season 2, we saw her become as monstrous as them. She outright said that she didn't care about justice but wanted to take over the business to hurt more innocents in order to get rich, which was the first evidence of her heinous nature.
- She kills a harmless dog to give students a reason to beat a former senior to death, even if it wasn't necessary, Nanno said it herself, which foreshadowed Yuri being a dangerous threat in the series.
- She gaslights and exploits an innocent girl's situation with her parents using her influencer life as a cash cow in order to further her cat-and-mouse game with Nanno and force her to go too far to make herself doubt her actions. Yuri then taunts her about it, happy that her first step to take down Nanno is complete.
- Her second step to overthrow Nanno is to make a psychopath Junko her henchwoman to do most of the dirty work for her as the world's new "god". She hatched a death trap for Nanno where she has Junko attack her mom and even goads Nanno into interferring, knowing what her weakness is so that it could lead to her "death" by Waan and later has the latter executed by Junko once she has outlived her usefulness in assassinating her.
- At this point, nobody knows why is Yuri so evil. Or has she always been evil before those mean girls tortured her. But all we know is she loves to cause misery and pain in her victims for her own amusement.
resolved Creators removing Audience Reaction tropes
This concerns the YMMV page for Rae Kohai (though honestly, every subpage there has their own issues even before getting to how the work itself has been impossible to trope thanks to every episode being privated back in 2019, combined with drama surrounding the work's creator that I'm not going to touch on here). There's one specific issue I'm unsure about that I'd like a second opinion on.
I've been reading up on various administrivia pages on when creators add and edit pages for their own works, and I can't find anything that specifically covers when creators remove YMMV tropes rather than add them. The particular trope that concerns me is a First Installment Wins example that an account with a very similar name to the work's creator (which is currently inactive but mostly seemed to only edit their own work page) deleted without giving an edit reason.
Is it kosher for creators to remove audience reaction tropes even when Zero Context Examples and factual inaccuracies aren't factors?
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved Kill Count and Dead Meat are separate pages Web Original
As the title says, I've noticed that The Kill Count and Dead Meat (the latter of which refers to the channel that the former series is hosted on) are separate pages, but most of the Dead Meat page and its subpages focusses on Kill Count, with hardly anything talking about the rest of the channel's content. What should we do about this (besides possibly renaming the page for Kill Count to remove the "The" if we're keeping the page, since that's not in the title of the show itself outside of James' signing on/off phrases)?
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved CerebusCallBack applied to fan works
There a a few Cerebus Call-Back subpages for fan works that were previously under Cerebus Retcon, but were cut as, per this thread
, they were in regards to things that happened in the original work, not the fanfic itself. Do they apply under this trope?
resolved Memetic Mutation misuse? Music
Found this on YMMV/Deftones:
- Memetic Mutation: Stephen revealing himself to be a believer in several conspiracies
, including the flat Earth theory, anti-vax and COVID-19 denial, was immediately met with widespread scorn from the fandom along with several memes referencing songs such as "Hole in the Earth".
This is already in need of a tweak of some kind since that Vimeo link is dead, but I'm not even sure it's an example of Memetic Mutation - it's more focused on memes made in response to a scenario rather than the scenario itself becoming a meme.
Edited by Akriloth2160resolved self-promotion in tlp comments
so there's a tlp draft
being proposed. (full disclosure: I have my own issues with the proposal that are unrelated to my question and have made that explicit in the comments for the draft.) My question is: does the site allow self-promotion outside of explicit forum threads? the sponsor wrote in the comments that they have a youtube channel that discusses the trope they are proposing and then linked it in the comment. is that allowed? disallowed? allowed but frowned upon? Felt weird about it tbh, so i'm asking here.
resolved A troper who keeps posting dubious tropes on the Final Fantasy 7 Remake Main Character section. Videogame
Someone named Frankie 3 keeps re-posting the same ill-fitting tropes on Tifa Lockhart's character page despite me and other tropers already having pointed out why he needs to stop doing it. Like for example, trying to pin the "Token Good Teammate" label to Tifa when the rest of the party aren't even evil people, at worst having some anti-heroic traits that don't even scale into particularly dark levels. And then there's him posting links to some random wiki to try and add proof of claim when it directly violates troping rule that pages are only for what is found within the work itself. What should be done about him?
Edited by 9thOutworldsManresolved Trouble with Trivia/CodesAndGeassEmbracingYourInnerMegalomania
Hello again, little bit of an issue regarding the trivia page for this fanfic, and hopefully the last one I bring to ATT since I am attempting to disassociate myself from this fic.
The Trivia page is only meant for trivia, right? Well, the author of the work, Tropers/Trickster_Priest, has restored several tropes that were removed for not being trivia tropes. Namely two Useful Notes, BDSM and Oda Nobunaga, and one normal trope: Insistent Terminology. Shouldn't they be removed though since they are not trivia?
They have also removed two tropes, Dear Negative Reader and Hostility on the Set, and an entry for another trope, Creator's Pest, with no given reason whatsoever. Unless they are cases of misuse, isn't their removal not permitted under the ruling of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours?
I apologize for troubling you, and thank you in advance for resolving this.
Edited by RebelFalconresolved Author's saving throw misuse/concern
So, after talking about it
on "Is this an example?", on the advice of a mod I decided to come here. I'm pretty much echoing what I write over on "Is this an example?" but...here's what's up.
I'm a bit concerned about a trope under the category of Author's Saving Throw. As I was going through the trope page a few months ago, I noticed Misterian wrote the following a while ago:
- The first two chapters of RayFox faced some criticism 4 years later for its narrative expecting readers to sympathize with the citizens and authorities of Meva City for persecuting and vilifying Ray as an arsonist and terrorist despite not knowing (or seemingly not trying to look into) the full story of Ray's vigilante exploits simply on the basis of "he broke the law and destroyed property, so it warrants consequences" with little to no nuance, especially regarding why he did. Chapter 4 shifts the narrative from Ray joining S.O.S. to atone to the authorities extending the offer to him out of recognition for the lives he's saved and sees his help as something desperately needed, with implications that the public have grown suspicious of the accusations against Ray. The S.O.S. is friendlier and open-minded toward Ray in contrast to previous chapters, with some seeking further details from Ray about the Meva Arsenal incident. The end of Chapter 4 fully cemented this with Rayfox upstaging a public speech held by Morales to fully explain who he is, the powers he possesses, and what he's been doing, Making clear his goals to improve himself as a crime fighter he's forming at own request rather than anyone shaming him for his apparent disregard for the law, as if the author has taken to fully embracing the viewing of Ray as an earnest aspiring hero rather than the young careless vigilante the previous chapters tried to portray him as.
At the time, I had tried to trim it down so that it was more laconic, but he added a whole lot more while putting it on the comic page via edit requests, and now I'm beginning to wonder if it actually is valid; almost feels as if it's a bit "braggy" on the troper's part, as if he feels the author suddenly changed the narrative of the story because of 3 reviews on the Tropes page.
Regardless of my gripes with the comic, this seems like a rather inaccurate use of the trope. Unlike with stuff like Unintentionally Sympathetic/Unsympathetic, it would have taken a good chunk of the audience vocally criticizing it for this particular trope in question to count, and given that the audience isn't really that big or publicly vocal in general (with the exception of his fans, and even then, they aren't 100% present from what I've seen), it doesn't feel like it applies. I'm very tempted to remove from both the trope page and the comic page via edit requests, but I dunno.
I can confirm that there is no ill-intent behind this, only a simple misunderstanding of the trope and what it really means. But still, I would like to get this taken down.
EDIT: After speaking with the original writer of the entry, it seems we agree that the entry doesn't fit the trope. As for the comic page, I still have to get a consensus for that to actually be removed.
Edited by Stardust5099resolved Not related stinger on main DMC page, keep or delete? Videogame
User TimeLordVictorious added this edit
to Devil May Cry, which on the one hand, I can understand some of the humor behind it. However, on the other hand, it's completely unrelated to the page itself, so was wondering if it should be removed or not.
resolved The Mask Film
I found this page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanWorks/TheMask
I don't know if it's a written rule, but I don't think Fan Works pages should be filled with unpublished fanworks (I googled them and found nothing). I know I can delete the page itself by putting it on the Cut List. But the three pages within, I'm not sure that they should be deleted, maybe they could be moved to Unpublished Works. How does one move them? Is it a job for admins or can regular users do it? Is it okay if they're moved?

Spinning off from this ATT thread
, digeraddd
has several glaring editing problems dating back to when they first started editing in 2018 and continuing to this day. The linked thread mentions that the page they created is full of Shameless Self-Promotion, unlinked tropes, non-tropes, and trope misuse (and that they have added their self-promotion to other pages (at least one of which has been cut), but it doesn't end there. There's also:
- Several cases of natter/justifying edits (such as on this page
.
- Changing somebody's pronouns from they to he (after it was stated that they go by they/them pronouns)
.
- Their Shameless Self-Promotion reaching pages that don't even have anything to do with Youtube, podcasts, or gaming
.
- Their habit of adding non-tropes and/or with no link (and potential trope misuse) is not limited to the page they created that's mentioned in the ATT thread.
- Some edits that are just
...what (even ones that are made and then immediately undone still exist in the page history)?
Edited by UFOYeah