Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Ask the Tropers is for:
- General questions about the wiki, how it works, and how to do things.
- Reports of problems with wiki articles, or requests for help with wiki articles.
- Reports of misbehavior or abuse by other tropers.
Ask the Tropers is not for:
- Help identifying a trope. See TropeFinder.
- Help identifying a work. See MediaFinder.
- Asking if a trope example is valid. See the Trope Talk forum.
- Proposing new tropes. See TropeLaunchPad.
- Making bug reports. See QueryBugs.
- Asking for new wiki features. See QueryWishlist.
- Chatting with other tropers. See our forums.
- Reporting problems with advertisements. See this forum topic.
- Reporting issues on the forums. Send a Holler instead.
Ask the Tropers:
resolved recap page not being made Western Animation
I've been working on making recap pages for episodes of The Emperor's New School. However, when I make one for The Emperors New School S 1 E 20 The Yzma The Stole Kuzcoween Monster Masquerade, it doesn't appear even after I hit save. the link becomes blue on the recap home, but the page itself says the article doesn't exist. Anybody else having this problem?
resolved Questionable Edit removal from Recap for Rick and Morty Western Animation
On December 18th, 2022, I added a "The Reason You Suck" Speech entry for the Rick and Morty episode "Ricktional Mortpoons Rickmas Mortcation".
- "The Reason You Suck" Speech: When Rick tries to leave after making the driller once Morty makes clear he doesn't want Rick coming with him to get the Lightsaber, Morty gets pissed at the idea Rick is acting like Morty betrayed him and not the other way around. Rick, thoroughly done with listening to Morty and wanting to just go back to hunting down Rick Prime, delivers a quick but succinct tear down of Morty, both for the events of the last episode, and his general treatment of Rick overall the last few seasons, with Morty treating him like shit despite Rick bothering to open up to him. Morty himself can only wince and look upset while he's listening up until Curtis reassures him he won't kill his family.
Rick: You wanna know why I replaced myself in the beginning of that stupid Knights of the Sun thing? I said don't take the fucking sword and you were like "whatever" like I'm our neighbor Gene or David Arquette or something. You called me boring. I've become dog shit to you. That's what happens when you let people in and they stop respecting you, they touch your shit, they screw things up, they kill your fucking family. Go ahead. Trust [Curtis]. You're going to learn the same fucking thing.
- 1. It's not presented as the way the edit reason states, namely since Rick had been keeping Morty out of his hunt for Rick Prime rather than forcing him to help, and Morty was acting like Rick was entirely at fault for not being honest. While an argument can be made for Unintentionally Unsympathetic, the fact of the matter is that it's not presented in the manner the edit reason suggests.
- 2. "The Reason You Suck" Speech is not a YMMV trope, meaning even if Mantyf does not see it as a speech but more a rant from an abuser, the trope itself is what matters. So if the entry is an actual case of "The Reason You Suck" Speech as presented in the show itself, removing it based on an interpretation feels like a mistake.
resolved Trivia relevancy on Voltron: Legendary Defender Western Animation
Hello,
I was doing a Wiki Walk and i found this trivia about Voltron: Legendary Defender:
-"The Klance (Keith/Lance) fanfiction "Dirty Laundry" had the second most kudos of all fanfiction on Archive of Our Own. (It is second only to a Groot parody fic.)"
I was wondering about the relevancy of this information and if it should be removed since it's not really about the show itself and seem oddly specific to me.
What are your thoughts on this?
resolved Possible Edit War in YMMV Page for Elemental? Western Animation
I only realized after my last edit
on YMMV.Elemental 2023 that I might've accidentally been part of an edit war on whether or not Fireboy and Watergirl should be linked despite not having a page yet. I was the first one to make the deliberate redlink here
, but The Jayman 49 removed it here
without explanation. Hqami then added it back
, explaining why it should remain redlinked, but then Matthew Guy 6131994 removed it again
without explanation, and that was when I accidentally re-added it without checking the edit history. Is this still an edit war even if it doesn't follow the ABA user pattern of adding/removing? And should there also be a commented-out note not to remove the deliberate redlink because of this? I sincerely apologize for accidentally getting myself into this, and will make sure that I read the edit history before making any changes.
resolved An addition that I might need help on evaluating Western Animation
MamaLadilla suddenly added
the phrase "(and confirmed biologically-female)" to this entry. Turning it from this:
- Viewer Gender Confusion The non-binary Raine Whispers is sometimes mistaken for a man due to their masculine voice and hairstyle, though a flashback episode shows their younger self with a more feminine voice and appearance.
To this:
- The non-binary (and confirmed biologically-female) Raine Whispers is sometimes mistaken for a man due to their masculine voice and hairstyle, though a flashback episode shows their younger self with a more feminine voice and appearance.
OK, first off, where was that confirmed? Second, was this really necessary to add?
Edited by AudioSpeaks2resolved Start of an Edit War/Possible Sockpuppet? Western Animation
Hello! So I recently posted this in the "Is this an Example?" thread, and haven't really got replies, though they have been leaning to my side.
I found something that screams shoehorning from a biased source.
From the YMMV page of The Owl House:
- Broken Aesop: The Series Finale has two major ones;
- Earlier in the series, the show railed against the concept of a Chosen One, and said that people should carve out their own paths. Just before the climax however, it's revealed that the remnants of the dead Titan has been actively helping Luz in learning Magic and has picked her to be the one to stand up against Belos. Guess what? That makes her a fucking CHOSEN ONE!!!
- After Belos is defeated and no longer a threat, he starts begging for Luz to save him from death, saying that is she doesn't, she'll be just as "evil" as the witches, and "We're Human, we're better than this!", only for Eda and friends to push Luz aside, smugly say to Belos "Well we ain't!" and then gleefully stomp him to death and laugh, proving that despite everything the show preached, in his final moments, they proved that everything Belos said had some merit of truth to it.
Two huge problems with this. First, it's very clearly overly hostile and biased against the show judging by it's language, and attempting to whitewash Belos by suggesting he has a point. Secondly, both examples are taken completely out of context to form a rhetorical strawman. The first one isn't an example because she wasn't born with any special destiny. She only got the Titan's approval due to being her kind and loving self, especially to his son. The second is just plainly absurd. It's attempting to play moral judgement on some of the people who have suffered the most under the genocidal psychopath, when he had just made his second attempt to commit genocide against their species.
I took the liberty of removing the example from the YMMV page. Now that would be fine on it's own, even if I heavily disagree with it... If it weren't for this entry literally being a copy paste of something that was posted on the main page of the show which the troper Gamermaster removed. The weird part is that it was copy pasted onto the YMMV page by an entirely different user, and the first user has a total of two edits on their entire edit history, both of which are super hostile to modern Disney properties. Later on the person who posted it on the main Owl House page posted it right back on the YMMV page exactly as is without going to the "Is this an Example?" thread, and added further shoehorning. I removed those too... but now I am wondering if this is some sort of sockpuppeting situation due to the reasons listed above. At the very least it could warp into an Edit War.
resolved How to make a redirect page. Western Animation
I want to make a Nightmare Fuel redirection for OPAL, so it redirects to the Nightmare fuel page for Jack Stauber. All the examples regarding Opal are already on the Jack Stauber page, and there's no existing page on Nightmare Fuel for Opal by itself.
resolved Cerebus Syndrome - does it require the work to be clearly nonserious? Western Animation
I looked under Cerebus Syndrome, and I see both Amphibia and The Owl House listed.
The Owl House started out semi-story-based, in that it was episodic but still told stories, and still took itself somewhat seriously (in that the stories were somewhat serious and there was clear worldbuilding) but had comedy. Then things ramped up near the end of season 1.
Amphibia, meanwhile, was more about random adventures, with more story in season 2, then it ramped up with Marcy's "death" at the end of season 2.
To me, these are very different things entirely. One was somewhat story-based but went to full continuing storylines. The other one was more random adventures but then jumped to having more lore and backstory, then suddenly turned dark all at once.
Looking through I see other examples that I feel aren't totally that trope. Like, there are shows that simply went from having no continuity to having continuity (a show called The Raccoons). That's not the same thing as "goes from silly random comedy to suddenly dark."
Does this trope need cleanup? Am I misunderstanding what it's about? Does it need a new description, or something to make it much more clear what is and isn't an example of Cerebus Syndrome?
resolved About Mickey Mouse's non-Disney works... Western Animation
Hey! It's me again with yet another Mickey question
!
So in the franchise page for Mickey Mouse, there's a section about non-Disney works, which are about derivative works made after (the 1928 versions of) the mouse became public domain. The page itself indexes the Disney-made works over the non-Disney ones (which I completely understand and I support for them to still being the only ones indexed there), but since there are now many non-Disney Mickey works that have pages (Mickey's Mouse Trap, The Vanishing of S.S. Willie, Captain Willie, Infestation: Origins, Inverse Ninjas VS. The Public Domain, Mousetrapped and the many pre-2024 works that feature Mickey's 1928 designs, such as Suicide Mouse and Mickey Mouse in Vietnam), should we make a separate page for them to be indexed so it would be easier to search for and find them in other pages instead of going to the "Related" tab in each of the works' pages and then go to Mickey's franchise page to search for one work? Maybe something like Non-Disney Works/Mickey Mouse, or something?
Edited by UzarNaimBer15resolved Potential Edit War Western Animation
Hello, I recently added a fic rec to the Hazbin Hotel section and someone later came back and edited in a “YMMV” about the author, not commenting about the fic itself, making it unnecessary.
It comes off as petty and rude, not to mention false, so I removed it only for it to be added back in a little while later by the same user. I have sent a message to the user but I think a mod should get involved to stop an editing war.
The ones who added the “YMMV” edit back in is Keida.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=FanficRecs.HazbinHotel&page=7
Also I am fairly new to the site so please let me know if I need to provide more information or am putting this in the wrong section.
Thank you.
Edited by TuneGlowresolved Pre-show Debut Western Animation
What's the name for the Trope where a character first appears in some type of promotional picture or merchandise before their actual debut in the show itself?
resolved Should this deleted YMMV entry be restored? Western Animation
On Arcane's YMMV page, Damian Wayne deleted this "One True Pairing" entry
for the second time in a row even after a previous ATT thread
on this very same topic resolved itself with an overall consensus that it did indeed qualify as an example. This was the initial reason the troper gave for deleting it:
- "OTP indicates a ship that is universally beloved to the point there are no significant alternatives to it. A quick look on any fan site will show that this isn't the case for Ekko/Jinx.Not only does Lightcannon fan works keep getting updated, but most of the work featuring Jinx hardly feature her in a romantic relationship at all."
As what was already noted in the aforementioned ATT thread, the One True Pairing page does not describe a pairing that is "universally beloved" to the point where no alternatives exist. It simply describes a phenomena whenever there is a pairing within a work that is preferred by a group of fans above others, in-which the "Ekko/Jinx" ship qualifies for within the context of Arcane due to the wave of positive reception and fan art seen across social media (general critic and audience reactions, YouTube, Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, etc.) after the debut of Season 2's final batch of episodes. There is no rule that states the existence of another ship disqualifies an OTP nor is there anything that bars qualification if the pairing also has detractors, which is part of the reason why Ship-to-Ship Combat exists.
I did attempt to message the troper to try and open up a dialogue over the deletion but they never made a reply. After waiting a couple of days, I restored the entry. But as I already mentioned, it was deleted again by the same troper. This was the new reason they gave alongside adding a No Yay entry in place of it:
- "I hope this new entry will finally put an end to this argument"
Out of a desire to avoid an editing war over a ship of all things, I wanted to get some outside opinions on the matter. Should the original OTP entry be restored? Or is there something I'm missing that warrants the example's deletion?
Edited by Killionaireresolved Possibly old Cartoon Network show where a female character is burned alive in a bonfire Western Animation
Hey everyone! I’ve been trying for years to figure out if a scene I saw as a kid was real or just a fever dream. I hope someone here can help me identify it.
What I remember:
I watched this episode sometime between 2016 and 2018, but I’m pretty sure the cartoon itself was much older, probably from the early/mid-2000s era (Billy and Mandy, Cow and Chicken, Courage the Cowardly Dog, etc.).
Channel: I’m almost certain it aired on Cartoon Network, but there’s a slight chance it might have been Nickelodeon.
The episode had an extremely dark and disturbing tone. The most vivid memory I have is of a female character (probably human) being thrown into a large bonfire by a group of other characters.
It happened at night, and the fire had huge flames. I distinctly remember her screams — they were loud, desperate, and very unsettling.
After she was burned, the other characters acted like it was normal — they seemed to be celebrating or socializing, totally unbothered.
The visual style was odd — it had low saturation, almost grayish tones. It stood out from typical colorful cartoons.
Art style: I can’t recall exactly, but it felt like something in between the smoother style of Teen Titans (2003) and more exaggerated cartoony animation.
I vaguely recall the girl begging or pleading before being thrown in, but nobody helped her.
What it wasn’t:
I’ve already checked and it’s definitely not: Billy and Mandy, Happy Tree Friends, Superjail!, or Courage the Cowardly Dog.
If this rings any bells, or if anyone remembers something similar, I’d really appreciate any leads — even if it turns out to be a lost episode, a banned scene, or just something obscure.
Thank you guys so much in advance!
Edited by ReconditeBoil434resolved Is spoilering out an entire example fine with the spoiler policy? Western Animation
So I noticed on both WesternAnimation.K Pop Demon Hunters and YMMV.K Pop Demon Hunters that the same troper, ReginaldOgron5, edited two separate entries for the same reason: they're both completely
spoilered out
(though for the YMMV example I can at least understand a little more, with the Fan Wank explanation).
My concern is... there's multiple other completely spoilered out examples on both of those pages? And the thing is, not only are both of those examples not Self Fulfilling Spoilers, but they're also... actual spoilers that should be spoilered?
So I'm just wondering... is this correct? Is a completely spoilered out example fine?
Edited by Eisnerresolved Was there a consensus for this edit? Western Animation
This was added in The Owl House - Emperor Belos:
- Seven Deadly Sins: Fittingly for a Satanic Archetype and ironically for a heavily implied devout Puritan, Belos is actually guilty of all seven of them.
- Wrath: He's not loud about it, but his murder of Caleb and of his grimwalker clones all stem from his anger towards Caleb for "leaving" him for a witch and refusing to repent and, for the girmwalkers, betraying him as he believes Caleb did.
- Lust: Despite showing no interest in anyone, Belos does have a lust for fame and glory as a great Witch Hunter General. This on top of his implied lust for attention given that he in part murdered Caleb for "abandoning" him for Evelyn.
- Pride: Perhaps the most fitting, he truly believes himself to be the great Witch Hunter General he's dreamed of being since childhood and it was Caleb spending time with his witch lover instead of him that would eventually motivate Philip to murder him. Tying into the above lust for glory, being the Witch Hunter General would also offer him no shortage of adulation and attention, per the Sin of Pride's meaning.
- Sloth: Insofar as Belos is morally apathetic as he certainly not slothful in pursuing his goals. He does not care in the least that what he's doing is wrong, even though on some level he's realized it is. All he cares about at this point is succeeding because otherwise all his other sins and atrocities will have been for nothing.
- Greed: Not so much for material wealth, not that he lacks that as Emperor, but Belos is an innately selfish person who intends to enjoy whatever spoils of his victory may come by himself seeing as he plans on killing off all of his Witch and Demon allies as part of his plan. The only possible exception being Luz if she would take his offer to join her.
- Gluttony: This one is more induced, but he needs to consume more and more Palismen to stay alive long enough to complete his plans and he has no qualms with over indulging if it means he lives just a little longer.
- Envy: In a more platonic sense than usual, but envy is the disire for something someone else possesses. In this case, Philip was a Green-Eyed Monster towards Evelyn for taking Caleb away from him and projected that envy and hatred towards the Boiling Isles as a whole. And as is so often the case, his sin of Envy lead to him commiting all the others.
- And on a certain level, Belos has even commited the lesser known eighth sin from Orthodox Christianity: Despair. Despite having realized, on some level, after centuries of atrocities and sin that he's in the wrong Belos refuses any and all offers to change or even simply give up and instead convinces himself that no matter how wrong it is, he has to destory the Boiling Isles and everyone on it if for no other reason that to make all his sins worth it.
Even though the hidden comment stated this.
- Seven Deadly Sins Do not add back without consensus.
That comment was deleted in a later edit, but there doesn't seemed to be a link showcasing the consensus and feels like the comment was deliberately ignored.
resolved DisillusionedCheetah100 spiraling Western Animation
Hi. I hope this is not the wrong place to report this but Disillusioned Cheetah 100 has been lashing out at people who tried to help him in his obscure Dr. Rabbit and Toon definition threads. He says he doesn't like people "correcting" or "helping" him and says they just want him to think and behave like them, while also saying people use "moronic excuses" and lie about wanting to help him.
He's doing the same spamming that resulted in his previous suspension wrapped up in a persecution complex and saying he wishes he could delete his threads (then when people say he just needs to holler a mod he doubles down on insulting himself and saying people hate him or are annoyed by him.) I am honestly worried about this guy's mental health based on his forum behavior.
resolved BonaFIDE's edits to Recap.SpongeBobSquarePantsS2E14WelcomeToTheChumBucketFrankendoodle Western Animation
Bona FIDE made these edits on Recap.Sponge Bob Square Pants S 2 E 14 Welcome To The Chum Bucket Frankendoodle:
- Unexpectedly Dark Episode: The episode from the revelation that Plankton has obtained SpongeBob's services to the musical number has copious, if not gratuitous amount of crying. And that's the tip of the iceberg, with SpongeBob's brain being removed and placed in a robot and the Krusty Krab actually shutting down! Holy overexagerating, Batman! This is not "unexpectedly dark". Plankton basically kidnaps SpongeBob for one episode and shenanigans ensue with everything going back to normal by the end. There are really only two scenes with crying and they're semi-Played for Laughs (any emotional tension is broken up with Plankton being a comedically massive jerk). SpongeBob's brain being removed is also Played for Laughs given how we don't see the operation, Plankton's plan fails miserably regardless and SpongeBob gets his brain back in short order, and the Krusty Krab is shut down for a grand total of about 10 seconds. Also a Pothole to a Moments page. Yeah that song in the middle of the episode made me weepy as a kid but it's followed up with more typical SpongeBob hijinks. This is no darker than your typical SpongeBob episode.
He added Just Eat Gilligan to the page even though it's YMMV now and even then, it makes no sense: Plankton couldn't control what Mr. Krabs was going to bet: his secret recipe (which, let's face it, he would probably never in a million years do even if he was confident he would win) or SpongeBob's employment contract. He also added a Sinkhole elsewhere on the page.
- Just Eat Gilligan: Plankton admits he threw card games so that Mr. Krabs would bet something valuable, but despite the idea of betting the physical formula being mentioned twice (one time by Plankton himself), Plankton goes for SpongeBob instead for some reason.
He changed the word "punk" to "jerk" several times for some reason.
Edited by supernintendo128resolved Is the Classic Disney Shorts Characters page locked? Western Animation
I was just trying to add some tropes to the Characters page for Classic Disney Shorts, specifically to the folder for the one-shot character Joey the Kangaroo, but whenever I try to save my changes, I'm instead booted to this website's main page. I double-checked my messages, but I don't see any messages about being banned, I'm signed in, so I don't know what's wrong. Is this page under protection, perhaps?
If it helps, this was the rewritten entry I was trying to save:
A baby kangaroo that Donald decides to adopt as his son for some reason.
- Aw, Look! They Really Do Love Each Other: While Joey gets thoroughly into trouble, and ends up putting Donald through the ringer, the short emphasizes that he's not malicious, but just an energetic and mischievous little kid. In fact he cares about Donald a great deal, and he showers Donald with affection at several points. And then there's the climax of the episode, where he thinks Donald has been eaten by a bear, and he goes berserk in his efforts to rescue him..
- Badass Adorable: An adorable infant kangaroo... whose reaction to seeing his adoptive father Donald seemingly be eaten by a full-grown black bear is to beat seven shades of snot out of it to save him.
- Batter Up!: After the initial jab with a red-hot fire poker and a thorough drubbing with his kicks, Joey grabs a handy baseball bat and chases the "bear" around the house with it.
- Badly Battered Babysitter: The central point of comedy of his short is that he's rambunctious and a lot stronger than Donald anticipated, so Donald ends up being run off of his feet. And that's before Donald makes the poorly judged decision to play a joke on Joey by pretending that his bearskin rug is not only a real bear, but one that manages to eat Donald.
- Boxing Kangaroo: He's only an infant kangaroo, but he's already a skilled pugilist, as shown when he attacks the "bear" (really Donald inside of a bearskin rug).
- Hates Baths: At one point in "Daddy Duck", Donald attempts to give Joey a bath, and he is not thrilled at the prospect, using his feet and his tail to brace himself so he can't be forced into the water. It is subtly implied that Joey's refusal stems from the fact the water is too cold, as he's shown dipping his own elbow into it in imitation of Donald and then shuddering in disgust.

Memes.The Loud House has some examples that come from fan works and not the show itself. Is this allowed?