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Ask the Tropers:
openEdit War on Characters.Metroid Samus Aran
Hey guys. Back again with another Metroid-related problem.
Tropers.Mew1996 is falling into the trap of over-zealously editing after the release of a hot work, and as a result making several bad edits on Characters.Metroid Samus Aran.
The foremost issue is that they re-added a second page quote
after said quote had already been removed by another troper.
In that same edit, they have also added several poorly-written trope examples:
- A Cain and Abel entry that violates Examples Are Not Arguable (it starts off calling itself an "odd example" and then tries to bend over backwards trying to justify how it "fits" the trope).
- An Ax-Crazy "subversion" which is Not a Subversion. Ax-Crazy is a specific thing, not just "a person kills a lot of stuff", especially if the stuff in question are predators and aliens out to kill her first.
- A massive Wall of Text added to He Who Fights Monsters which goes into way too many tangents, flowery prose about Samus and her relationship with the Metroids, and potholing tropes which are unnecessary and distracting.
I've already removed or trimmed down all except the quote. The only reason I haven't touched it first is because of the aforementioned Edit War. Removing at this point would result in a fourth edit, so I brought the matter here first.
Edited by NubianSatyressopenTySargent2001
I have some concerns about Ty Sargent 2001. Unfortunately for me, a lot of them are things that we don't make notifiers for.
Yesterday, Ty made this
blank draft, which would be bad enough, but it's also for a nonexistent work of their own creation that already has a Darth Wiki page here, and with said Darth Wiki page being seeming self-plagiarism from this wiki article
. They also gave that Darth Wiki page a trivia page, which is against the rules for Unpublished Works (and is also misleading considering the work does not and never will exist).
Then there are the issues outside of their Sesame Street fanfic. Their edits today on The Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss are to add way too much information to Kick the Dog and make it a wall of text
. This addition
is redundant parabombing, and they added bad indentation here
and here
, which I think might be the one thing I've been able to send a notifier for so far (without having to script my own, which I'm not the best at).
openA troper with trouble
There's this newbie who's making pages for their fanfics, which so far is fine, since they follow the rules about only troping objective stuff. They've got some issues, though.
- They use a bit
of Word Cruft even after I explained why that's bad, in typical "This example is an example" fashion.
- They capitalize random
words like "Sociopathy" and "Fanfic".
- There are some YMMV tropes on the main page, like Complete Monster (I removed them though).
- The tropes aren't alphabetized properly either. One page had some misplaced tropes, while the other page had them all in completely random order.
- Also, they don't do indexing even after I sent a notifier.
Usually I'd just fix things myself, but I'm afraid of spoilers for Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and Demon Slayer, two series that these fanfics are based on and that I enjoy.
Edited by MichaelKatsuroopenEdit war and possesiveness of Nikke articles Videogame
Troper True Shadow 97 has has engaged in edit war over people changing edits they have made on entries about the player character of video game Goddess of Victory: NIKKE.
They have left comments in the articles that clearly show they feel possesive over the way the player character is presented.
The first time I noticed this was with this edit:
I removed a note thar tried to argue the canonicty of the entry.
They sent me several pm arguing about whether the side events are canon or not, they finally rewrote the entry here.
Did not contend because my main problem was with the note added and I can see the argument from Rapi's POV.
The second problem came when they added yet another note to downplay /argue against one of the entries on the Really Gets Around entry on the protagonist (Nikke is a harem gacha, so the protagonist gets physically intimate with SOME of the girls in the side stories).
I removed this comment because I felt it was not only unnecessary, but wrong as the developers don't really make a distinction between main story and side stories, everything is considered canon.
They reverted the entry and added a new comment justifying itself here.
At this poit I felt the troper clearly has a wonk over the harem aspect of the game and is possesive of entries that downplay Rapi's position as the canon love interest (it is a sentiment I've seen expressed elsewhere on reddit and twitter, where people take issue with the Commander having intimate relationships with other characters, so they argue that these instances are not really valid because they never happen in the main story).
I made a previous ask the tropers entry that goes into more detail here. Never took any action because I got no feedback on it.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=145452&type=att
Their last edit remained unchanged for months until some weeks ago when user dinur7.
This came along with a change in the description of the protagonist that to note them as a player avatar.
True Shadow 97 then reverts both changes to how they were before, including the Really Gets Around entry that waa already edited by them, and adds yet another comment justifying their reversion besdies the one they added when they reverted my change.
The hidden comments in question.
"Commander is mentioned as being popular with many Nikkes in the main story using various phrasings, but the Downplayed part of the entry remains factually accurate: none of the events that are relevant to the Campaign Story as of Chapter 42, such as Dirty Backyard or D.ARK HERO involve him getting hot and heavy with anyone."
"The clarification in the following entry was previously removed as "unnecessary" on the grounds of an increasing amount of events getting interconnected and some of them being canonized by the main story, such as Helm's bond story. Clarification rephrased for improved relevance and restored on the grounds of many players believing that any of Commander's romantic or sexual escapades are canon to said main story (which is possible, but hasn't been established yet, while Mihara and Yuni's bond stories are explicitly non-canon due to directly contradicting the events of Chapter 4) and none of the events that have been explicitly canonized (such as Dirty Backyard) feature Commander entering relationships with anyone."
His argument that Dirty Backyard doesn't support the Commander being in other relationships is factually wrong, its part of a chain of side stories that have the commander involved directly with three of the nikke involved in the ongoing plot.
Edited by MrSeykeropen"Semi-avoidance" on CrossDressingVoices
On a few pages (ex. Trivia.Unicorn Overlord and Trivia.Ranma One Half), troper Chef Cranky Roger has a weird wonk towards "semi-avoided" examples of Cross-Dressing Voices. As in, writing entry about whether a non-binary/agender actor in more masculine/feminine leaning.
As an example:
- Cross-Dressing Voices:
- In a semi-avoidance, Akane Tendō's English voice actress, Valeria Rodriguez, is genderfluid, using any pronouns, including her "assigned female at birth" pronouns of she/her.
- Another semi-avoidance is Azusa Shiratori's dub VA, Kayli Mills, who identfies herself as she/they feminine non-binary.
Aside from the fact that trivia tropes can't be played with and the grammar just kinda sucks, this hyperfixation on the actors AGAB kinda rubs me the wrong way.
What should we do about it?
openAbout Franchise-wide example subpages and inconsistency
I've been really wanting to bring this up for years, but only had enough info to say it now.
If a trope or YMMV lists examples for the entire franchise and its installments... what's the best way to deal with examples that are already in the specific installments' pages? Take Memes subpages and the Memetic Mutation examples in this case, Should we...
- Duplicate the examples in both the specific installment's YMMV page and the series-wide subpage?
- Prioritize the series-wide subpage and simply leave a link towards it in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Put the examples only in the specific installment's YMMV page?
- Make a Memes subpage for that specific installment and have it separated from the series-wide Memes subpage?
I've seen a lot of inconsistency when it comes to these pages, especially the Memes, Shout-Out, and Fan Nickname subpages. The problem is that one list may have entries not found in the other list, or that there may be redundant examples.
For context, this is what I observed in Memes subpages alone:
- Memes.Persona exists (which includes memes for specific games like Persona 3 and Persona 3 Reload), but YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload have their own lists of Memetic Mutation examples.
- Memes.Resident Evil groups the memes found in the original games and their remakes. There's already a list there for Resident Evil Village... and yet another Memes subpage, Memes.Resident Evil Village, exists for that game.
- Memes.Castlevania lists memes for the games, and yet there's a separate Memes page for the Castlevania (2017) Netflix adaptation, found in Memes.Castlevania 2017. Notice how Memes.Castlevania does not even link the adaptation's own Memes subpage.
- Memes.League Of Legends lists memes for the main LoL game and its E-sports scene, but at least the intro immediately tells the reader that there's a separate Memes.Arcane page for the Arcane show.
- Memes.Metal Gear also lists memes for the entire franchise, the YMMV.Metal Gear Rising Revengeance page links there, but there's a redirect
implying that Revengeance used to have its own Memes subpage. The edit history confirms it did
, and a discussion about it was posted via an ATT query
(a troper named GRD made that game-specific subpage, but discussion agreed to have troper Amonimus turn it into a redirect to the series-wide Metal Gear memes page).
- Memes.Devil May Cry has been the "centralized" page for all memes of the Devil May Cry franchise. The Page Info says it existed since November 2018 and several DMC tropers (including myself) have been adding and updating meme entries in just that page to maintain consistency. However, it seems like some tropers already, pre-emptively added a Memetic Mutation entry for Adi Shankar's upcoming Devil May Cry (2025) show in its YMMV.Devil May Cry 2025 page. Shouldn't it be moved to Memes.Devil May Cry instead?
There may be plenty more questions that I'd still like to ask (such as "When's the right time for a specific installment's examples to be separated from the franchise-wide subpage?"), but at this point, it's disappointing to see how TV Tropes is very inconsistent when it comes to listing Memes and handling franchise-wide subpages, especially when you now have installment(s) with three pages for its Memetic Mutation examples... (Looking at you Memes.Persona, YMMV.Persona 3 and YMMV.Persona 3 Reload).
openNot Fond of a Change Done to "Rabbit Season, Duck Season"
Hey, I was just over on the Duck Season, Rabbit Season trope page and was dismayed to see that someone saw fit to rip out pretty much all the quotes. So basically the trope has been reduced to talking about the routine but not actually showing it? That was the whole fun with that page, to see all those gags in one easy to find place. How are people supposed to get the humor of the routines without actually knowing how they went?
Now if this was a move to shorten the length of the page, fine. But what real!y irks me is that rather than transfer the lines to the Quote page, the guy who did this just left them in the wind. Now, if I could, I'd scour through the history section and put the deleted lines on the alternate page myself, but it'd be too much of an undertaking for me. Any chance an Admin or somebody would be willing to add the quotes?
openTheHero being dewicked everywhere
On Acceptable Feminine Goals and Traits, user ~SimonTrope removed a wick to The Hero in an example/explanation, saying that the trope is being dewicked
.
I put it back
because in the header on the cleanup thread, it says
" While The Hero no longer allows examples itself, references to the term in the text of other examples are fine." (my emphasis). The page has—had—The Hero as a reference to the term in a wick.
It's been removed again
by SimonTrope who stated that "According to cleanup thread, The Hero is now a category of tropes, rather than a trope itself. Thus, the trope is being dewicked." A quick check of the edit history shows they're dewicking it across any page it's on
, regardles of if it's just a reference or not.
If I put it back without consult, I'm causing an Edit War. The thread itself says in multiple places that it can be used and wicked in examples
, just not as an example.
Here's the example in question before any edits were made:
- Men Act, Women Are: Men take active roles in the story, and are defined by their achievements and character. Women are passive, and defined by passive things like how they look, or their sexual history, or relationships to men, or status as mothers, not by achievements. (Unless those "achievements" are something related, like being the World's Most Beautiful Woman, being a virgin, or somehow being Not Like Other Girls, or being the mother of The Hero.)
openThis entry feels wrong
- Arthur: In S9's "Arthur Makes Waves", Arthur and D.W. go to the MacDonald house during a heat wave to cool off in the pool in their yard, where D.W.'s classmate and Implied Love Interest James shows up shirtlessnote He's shirtless because he had been swimming in the pool himself, nervously asking D.W. if she needs him to kiss her again, to which D.W. responds "Uh-uh" (meaning "No") after a brief pause. The scene is reminiscent of two lovers being nervous about sexual intercourse.
The scene never came off to me like that, and it would be incredibly wrong considering both characters are of kindergarten age. As for the "you don't need me to kiss you again" line, Arthur has a lot of Continuity Nods and it's likely that James just didn't want to get in another awkward situation with D.W., since that only happened last season. Permission to cut?
openAPP Concerning DMoS entries
I found several Dethroning Moment of Suck entries I have concerns about; normally this is something I’d take to one or more of the cleanup threads in the Projects subfora, but the entries have a range of different problems with them, and are also each for different works, so I think it’s simpler to bring them all here instead. I’m going to folderise each example for organisation (and length) purposes.
- Grotadmorv: I'm not excited to see any more of Toriel in Deltarune, because Chapter 2 completely misunderstood her character. She's just a horribly unlikeable woman who swears constantly and is rude to her ex-husband. There's no in-universe explanation for it either, they still imply she was a good mom in the past. It feels like cheap Out of Character comedy that gets dragged out for too long.
Here’s the problem: none of that is true. I’m currently in the middle of playing this game, and I just wrapped up Chapter 2 and began Chapter 3 a couple of hours ago. So I can state with confidence that:
- Toriel swears precisely once in the entirety of the content currently released for the game (as of writing, that’s Chapters 1 - 4), and it’s one of the mildest swear words to boot (“Hell”). That’s hardly “swearing all the time”.
- Toriel is never anything but cordial and pleasant when talking to Asgore; what “rudeness”, precisely, is Grotad talking about? That she tries to keep her interactions with him brief and leaves abruptly when he shows up trying to convince her to take him back? That’s not rude; Asgore is repeatedly disrespecting her boundaries by constantly trying to get her to take him back. What he’s doing might very well constitute harassment, in fact. She doesn’t owe him engagement; if he’s making her uncomfortable (and he clearly is), she has every right to want to bail, and it isn’t rude to do so.
- How, exactly, is it possible for Toby Fox to “misunderstand” his own character’s personality?
I think this one should be cut wholesale as misinformation. Whether it’s a wild misinterpretation of what Deltarune actually is in relation to Undertale or perhaps driven by an ulterior motive, I couldn’t say.
- Lord Daddy Funk: Jade Empire has a pretty big one. All game other characters have reported seeing a flaw in your fighting style (the reason for this is that Master Li purposely put one in that he could exploit later on to kill you); after roughly 12 hours of gameplay, with all this build up and foreshadowing, you finally kill the Emperor who you've been lead to believe was the real villain, and how does the scene where Li betrays you pan out? With your techniques being quickly exploited in a fight and him defeating you? Nope, you get distracted by something shiny and he kills you without anything save your attention span being exploited.
This one has been contested before, but somehow, it’s still up. I’ve played Jade Empire; it seems pretty clear to me that Master Li isn’t using the Water Dragon’s heart as a distraction. Instead, he’s tossing it up into the air to free up both of his hands for his surprise attack on the Spirit Monk, and then exploits the flaw in the Spirit Monk’s fighting technique by striking at a very specific spot on their body—presumably one which he subtly trained them not to defend. So this is another one I believe is based on false premises (in this case, a misinterpretation of the cutscene in question.)
- SRE 89: I know opinions are going to differ due to religious/political beliefs, but the [[Dethroning Moment Of Suck]] for "Wolfenstein: The New Order" was when Anya was reading her journal, which she used the pseudosynonym Ramona in case she got caught. As she was reading on how she fought Nazis and killed them, she read about how she seduced a Nazi just to kill him, and then later on she got pregnant, and had an abortion. Even though she said it was "Ramona", it was obviously her. I stopped playing the game after that, and I am sure many others did the same. For one, she kept calling it a Nazi baby, even though fetuses have no concept of ideology. Number two, she killed an innocent because at least the Nazis she killed chose to be Nazis. And the messed up thing is, she is Catholic and Catholicism teaches that abortion is a mortal sin and also the fact BJ just accepts her doing something so messed up. I played Wolfenstein due to it being a World War II Alternate History game. I did not play it to hear a woman's back story where she ended up killing a child she got pregnant with just by seducing a Nazi and calling it a Nazi baby, trying to justify killing it, and if it were mention in a sequel, she would pull the whole "I Did What I Had To" crap, which I see it as bad as the Nurember Defense. I stopped playing "Wolfenstein: The New Order" right then and there. I know Bethesda has made games that would be seen as edgy by some, but I thought this was too much. For all I care, Anya can go to Hell!
Lots of problems here, mostly ROCEJ-related:
- It presumes to speak for other players, instead of only for SRE 89 themself (“I stopped playing the game after that, and I am sure many others did the same”.)
- Characterising abortion as “killing an innocent” is common anti-abortionist rhetoric.
- It compares getting an abortion to Mass Atrocity Crimes vis a vis the Nuremberg (not “Nurember”) Defence reference. I’m sorry, but saying “I did what I had to do” after getting an abortion is nowhere near as heinous as saying “I only committed war crimes and genocide because my superiors ordered me to, even though they wouldn’t have punished me for disobeying” is.
- They borked the formatting.
I’m not going to argue the finer points of the politics any further here; suffice to say I, as a woman, feel this is misogynistic hate speech dressed up as criticism of a video game. SRE 89 admits in the very first line that their criticism is rooted in their political and religious beliefs; that would be perfectly fine if they weren’t expressing bigoted beliefs about women and trivialising mass atrocities in the process of critiquing Wolfenstein.
For the record, I do not feel comfortable pinging SRE 89 to this post for discussion, given the inflammatory topic of their entry and its sexist undertones. They’re the only Troper I’d rather not ping, though; I’ll leave it to others to determine if pinging the other Tropers here to discuss is an appropriate step to take.
Wow, that’s... pretty insulting towards Killerwienerdog, isn’t it? Implying they didn’t explain themselves “properly” is a completely unnecessary snipe.
I seem to recall from lurking Edit Banned that Aj Wargo has been in trouble with the mods before, possibly even bounced already? Correct me if I’m wrong. Still, I think the first sentence needs to be cut at the very least. It’s very uncivil.
- Amber 72004 This post from an anti-Pooh's Adventures Tumblr blog
is just badly-written about a user on Deviantart, The users puts hyphens on words such as sick f**k and High time and misspelled the word Quality and he uses all-caps on his post as well, This just come as very unprofessional at best and poorly-written at worst.
Not Tropable, right? Also seems really nitpick-y.
I haven’t removed or modified any of them yet; since it’s Dethroning Moment of Suck, I figured I should err on the side of caution and get consensus to act first.
ETA: Spotted and fixed a typo I previously missed.
Edited by DarkJediPrincessopenWanting to avoid an edit war, and rudeness in a blank edit reason Videogame
On Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, Ukokira removed
this edit...
- False Flag Operation: Ultimately, this is what the Red Herrings surrounding the Red Samurai amount to. Despite it seemingly being an ally if not Lou or Deadman assisting Sam from beyond the grave, it turns out to be Higgs screwing with Sam, luring him into a false sense of security so he can nab Tomorrow right from under his nose.
... with the reasoning of "This literally isn't true. It's Deadman in the Red Samurai suit up until Higgs hijacks in the DHV when Deadman is explicitly outside of the Samurai body."
I added
back in on my read of "Except Deadman himself says it's not him when the Red Samurai/Higgs appears again in the Magellan. Realistic chiral holograms exist, and if it WAS Deadman he would've cleared it up at some point."
Ukokira then removes
it again with the reasoning of "He is literally talking about that one specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body" (although for some reason, the removal shows
up twice
), followed by two null edits with the edit reasons of "He is literally talking
about thatone specific moment when Higgs hijacks the body We LITERALLY SEE DEADMAN in the suit. He does a whole "we will always be connected speech". It is CLEARLY not a Chiralgram there. How are you being this dense???" and "Deadman being the suit is also in an area
that's explicitly outside of the chiral network. It physically can't be a "realistic" chiralgram".
I'd like to add the False Flag Operation back in, but I want to avoid an edit war. My reading of the whole situation is that Higgs could easily bypass the chiral network in part because of how long he spent on the Beach and being stuck there would've given him some different powers, and thus allow him to puppet the Red Samurai with a chiral hologram of Deadman overlaying the face, and that it wouldn't be out of character of Higgs to deliberately mislead the protagonists. The other reasoning is that Deadman never outright confirms that he was ever masquerading as the Red Samurai, because why would he, what with his heart having been donated to Heartman, and the rest of Deadman's body would've been more than likely incinerated to avoid the chance of a voidout.
openAnother user removing my WMG entries Videogame
Just now, ttuser023 removed
some content I added
to my own WMG assumptions in WMG.MultiVersus, while at the same time adding an assumption of their own.
As far as I'm aware (since the only content concerning about WMG entries that I know thus far is the description on the main Wild Mass Guessing page), all assumptions should be welcomed regardless of how legitimate and/or outlandish it sounds, unless it doesn't seem too much like a proper theory (which even then seems to be a hard condition to reach in WMG entries). This should imply that while you can remove assumptions you had added yourself beforehand, removing those of other users wouldn't be really allowed.
Aside from sending a PM to ttuser023 so that they can be aware of this query (which I've already done), what should I do in this situation?
Edited by Inky100openTropers/SMG4fan
I found three problems with SM G4fan.
1. They never pothole (well, they did it once
, linking Manga to The Dark Age Of Comic Books, and that's just plain wrong).
2. Their English is pretty bad, (and coming from me, that mean something).
3. Their claim is dubious. For examples, here
. I known that Fatal Fury (and The King of Fighters) isn't as popular as it used to be, but using porn as proof that "many people in the United States know here from her guest appearance in Dead or Alive" (sic) is questionable by itself.
openWeird additions.
So on YMMV.Arrow Nyame changed
this entry from this:
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show.
- Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be Killed Off for Real, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a Clingy Jealous Girl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character Took a Level in Jerkass and became the biggest Base-Breaking Character in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the entire franchise at one point), but the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
Which is weird considering that: a) It is just adding more negativity. b) While her being a Base-Breaking Character could be relevant, I don't see how that makes it justified. c) YMMV can't be justified. This is not the first time they have add something like this noted here
and here
- Changed
an approved rewrite of the Fan-Preferred Couple entry for Oliver/Felicity from neutral to overly complainy.
- Kept adding negativity to example rewritten to be more neutral inculcluding
a Creator's Pet one.
- The make an entry
for LovingAShadow.Fan Works which is more about their Alternate Character Interpretation of the show's version of Felicity. Which was then removed
. Only to add a nearly identical one to LovingAShadow.Live Action TV here
- They add negativity about Felicity and the ship to an originally neutral
Launcher of a Thousand Ships entry to about Oliver.
They also recently they:
- Added
a Fan Nickname entry based on hatedom rather then fandom.
- Added
more additions
complaining about Felicity to an already very negative Alternative Character Interpretation entry.
Now to be fair a most of their other edits are fine from my look through their edit history. It just seems to be that this ship brings out their bias Something they have acknowledged as a possibility
. Either way I wanted opinions on if that should be kept in the Die for Our Ship entry or not more then anything else.
openWeirdly defensive addition to Character Perception Evolution
Sailor Punk Rock added the following to Mabel Pines' entry on Character Perception Evolution:
And here's the edit reason:
I can kind of see where Sailor's coming from, but I think that this bit should, at a bare minimum, be rewritten to read less like it's complaining about people not liking the character.
What do you guys think?
Edited by ImperialMajestyXOopenEdit warring in YMMV Dragon Ball Super Anime
I removed a bunch of entries from the YMMV page of the Granolah's arc from Dragon Ball Super, since they were violations of policy (adding a Broken Base entry just days after the arc had ended, for example, alongside a It Was His Sled entry, and an Audience-Alienating Ending entry when the entire arc is days old). I also removed some entries that read as too much complaining instead of actually showing an audience reaction, particularly concerning Narm, Ass Pull, Franchise Original Sin and Fan-Disliked Explanation.
troper AMassiveOvereditor
(Which originally added most of these entries) added a bunch of entries back, with the exception of the entries that negated policy. What should be done in this case? I feel that rather than reflecting the views of the audience itself, the page just merely centers on the views of this specific troper. Not to say that there isn't examples of Narm and Ass Pull (I left some of those and after some days I thought that maybe I should have added back the Black Frieza entry in Ass Pull), but I feel that the page as a whole is too negative, which is a common problem in the Dragon Ball Super manga pages.
openCalebSu
CalebSu's
only edit was vandalizing the Self Demonstrating Thanos article
.
I already reverted it back. Their edit reason ("Reduce cost of hosting TV tropes") smells like a troll.
openChekovs Gun
Could Chekovs Gun be made a red link?
It was originally made as a joke about misspellings of Chekhov's Gun. Eddie himself unilaterally vetoed cutting it or moving or redirecting it to Just for Fun.
The problem is, as long as it's a blue link, people can't catch misspellings. There's a bunch of incorrect links on its related page.
openFat Shaming? Western Animation
The Great Hydra has written four entries for the Amythst/Steven fusion all relvoling around fat tropes which wouldn't be a big deal if those entries weren't written so insulting. I deleted their first three entries only for thirty minutes later, they put another entry (a zero context one too might I add) without even noticing my edit reason for pulling the first three. I don't want to jump to conclusions but I do feel like they might be trolling at least this page. These are their entries.
- Fat Bastard: Their first act upon being born is to beat the living crap out of Jasper, who admittedly deserved it, but the amount of perverse glee they take in doing it cements them into this trope.
- Fat Idiot: The combined intelligence of Steven Universe and Amethyst stuffed into a body three times their width that could be mistaken for a giant milk dud. Need we say more?
- You Are Fat: As part of their self given The Reason You Suck speech in "Know Your Fusion".
- Fat Slob: Natch.

The Award Snub entry has been a contentious one for Incredibles 2, and has been added and deleted multiple times over the years.
Those that add it are fans of the franchise, jubilant over finally getting a sequel and are disappointed it didn't win the Best Animated Picture Oscar.
Those that remove it point out that it's not an Award Snub situation, Incredibles 2 ran against Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse which was universally acclaimed to be a groundbreaking achievement in animation. As such Incredibles 2 simply lost to a superior film.
We're in the situation of it being added back again with the troper, perkeez, insisting that "Some people preferred Incredibles 2. As long as some people agree with the entry, it belongs in YMMV."
I don't know if it's worth arguing that point, however, I think the entry as currently written is problematic:
Issues:
1) It leans very heavily into the presumption that if Spiderverse was not in the running then Incredibles 2 clearly would have won the award. In 2018 there were several equally good challengers. Wreck-It Ralph 2, Isle of Dogs, Incredibles 2. To imply that Incredibles 2 was the clear winner of those three, is speculation and doesn't need to be part of the example.
2) The line "broke a six year run" is just a trivia factoid that has nothing to do with Incredibles 2 being snubbed or not and kinda implies that Incredibles 2 was snubbed simply because of its Disney/ Pixar pedigree.
3) The wins/nominations statistics should be removed. While it illustrates how Spiderverse won more awards and thus won the Oscar, the gap between it and Incredibles 2 is quite large. Spiderverse won over 5 times the awards (40 vs 7) and had almost double the nominations (71 vs 40). These facts show just how much of an underdog Incredibles 2 was to winning the Oscar that year and undermines the case that an Award Snub even occurred at all.
I opened a discussion on this and three tropers participated (myself, perkeez, and Larkman) but we could not achieve a consensus.
Reference: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=YMMV.Incredibles2#comment-141341
I suggested this wording to reflect the feedback of Larkman and myself... (Example A)
Perkeez suggested this wording which takes into account issue #3. (Example B)
So I put before you:
A) Should Incredibles 2 even have an Award Snub entry at all?
B) If yes, which wording is the best for the example? Example A or Example B?
Edited by rva98014