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openIndex Correction? Web Original
Several of the subpages for The Magnus Archives (at the very least the characters, heartwarming, funny, and nightmare fuel pages) are indexed under Web Original, while the work itself is a podcast. Do I have to achieve any sort of consensus before re-indexing them, and if so is this a good place to do it?
Edit: I fixed it but I have a follow-up question: while I was moving what pages needed to/could be moved, I discovered that Fanfic Recommendations does not have a Podcast folder but does have an Other folder that includes several podcasts. Can I go ahead and make a Podcast folder, or do I need an okay for that?
Edited by AfterwordopenHow do I delete video that I uploaded?
There’s a video on Condemned by History that I uploaded a while back when it used to be called Deader Than Disco. It doesn’t match the trope anymore so I’m hoping I can remove it myself?
openDid I edit war by mistake?
So, I suggested on the FPC thread that we make an entry for Kingsmen: The Secret Service here
. Most were kay with it. So, I looked through the history of FanPreferredCouple.Live Action Films and found out that an entry had already been deleted for not mentioning a creator preferred one here
. So, I suggested readding it with mention of one here
and was again given the okay. So I added it to the age. Now I don't believe this was the edit war as I got permission from the cleanup thread first. However, I then added it to the Kingsman: The Secret Service page and discovered that it had been deleted from there
, without edit reason. Is this edit warring since I still had approval to add the entry from the cleanup thread? I was not being the one who originally added it and it was deleted without edit reason which to my understanding is not okay.
I want to report myself if I edit warred.
openLiterature/TheGenesisOfJennyEverywhere
More wick cleaning shenanigans. Discovered the The Genesis of Jenny Everywhere — description states it is unfinished, the page itself is filled with ZCEs, and the work itself is scattered through a wordpress blog
. Should it just be cut?
openThe Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild headscratchers page Videogame
I found this absolute wall of text on Headscratchers.The Legend Of Zelda Breath Of The Wild. Placed in a folder because it's long:
- I haven't found what's supposed to claim this but I see talk of how Zelda's father, who is explicitly mentioned to have the title of "King", isn't of Hylia's bloodline. As Hylia's incarnation is always Princess Zelda that would indicate that her kin should be the side of the family with the literal divine right of kings. So unless there's something important here I'm missing how in the world did Zelda's mother, who was of Hylia's blood which was why losing her was so crippling to this incarnation of Zelda and assumedly the naturally born crown princess/Queen of Hyrule, get outranked by some schmuck she married and who does this glorified Prince Consort think he is to declare himself King while acting as Zelda's regent until she comes of age to rule on her own? "King" as a title can't belong to anyone not of the direct ruling bloodline after all, as in a Kingdom it outranks its sister title of "Queen", since consorts/spouses aren't permitted to have titles higher than the actual ruler's. On a similar note if being protected by a religiously powered matriarch is so fundamental to Hyrule in the first place (And as the local deities of worship that can be confirmed to exist are almost all female) why is it a Kingdom instead of a Queendom in the first place?
- You're looking way too far into this. The simplified way that the royalty in this game works is the same one that has been portrayed not just in other Zelda games, but across most realms of media and fiction in general - the idea of Prince-consorts as opposed to true kingship seems almost strictly limited to the real world. And that's even if the thing about Rhoam being from outside the line is true.
- Original poster here: This is the headscratchers page, no need to be so rudely dismissive about answering since this is where fridge logic is meant to be put and nothing is considered "too far" as long as you can see how the question came up. Why comment if you aren't actually addressing the question being posed in the first place for that matter and instead just attacking someone for asking it? Most other Zelda games just plain don't talk about the royal family beyond Zelda herself so there's no need to question if her father has the right to be called king, as their competence isn't in question and neither is her own (Unlike here where her father outright tells her that her people think she's the "Heir to Nothing" like an abusive asshole and encourages the only heir to the throne to act more like a priestess than a studious princess) so the fact this game did want to go into royal politics for a change doesn't make me out of line. And just because mainstream media doesn't like to do it's research most works that do want to make royal politics a major plot point, like Zelda tried here, do go into this sort of thing plenty often. Only part I'd grant would be "too deep" is the notion of a patriarchy existing in a world where the major religious and cultural foundations are primarily presented as female-focused with confirmable magical existences, and that contradiction has always been a part of the game's setting. And as I said in the first line I don't know if it's true so the least you could have done was find what could confirm or deny it, as obviously that's my main concern here.
- First of all, let me apologize for coming off as rude, since that wasn't my intention. It just seemed like you were getting a bit too...upset, if I may, about something that's been a common part of royalty's portrayal throughout most of popular culture. Having nearly completed the main story and collected all of the memories, I've yet to come across anything indicating that King Rhoam was from outside the line, but even if he was, what I meant with my earlier response was that, in the game's universe, he would probably still be considered a genuine "king", as opposed to prince-consort, because that's how it typically works in fiction. So his line to Zelda about her inheritance probably wouldn't be seen as that level of disrespectful, in-universe - I didn't want you to get that worked up about it, and I'm sorry if it came out wrong.
- OP again: Alright, it just rubbed me wrong that it didn't seem like any other questions got that sort of treatment without any meaningful expansion/explanation on anything added to it even though this one isn't the only one with parts that can be difficult to check by the nature of the game, like the timeline debates, or one based on honest confusion. But with monarchies hardly being a fictional concept as Great Britian's royal family is easily one of the most well known existing monarchies to date (regardless of how vital it is for their current system of government) and seeing it used as an excuse for sexism's a Pet Peeve trope of mine as well... you'd figure people should know or at least infer by now as despite easily being the world's best known monarchy it openly has no King at present and hasn't in ages (with the Queen's husband indeed only ever having the title of "Prince") that not all Kingdoms need a King to function you know? Though his telling his daughter to her face that the people she knows should be looking to her for future guidance have no faith in her like that in such brutal phrasing was still an awful parenting move on his part considering it couldn't help her with anything and just further hurt her self esteem all because she tried to act like princess in her situation should.
- For all we know, both of Zelda's parents might be descended from Hylia's line. An awful lot of time has passed since the Skyward Sword era, and unless the line of Hyrule enforces a strictly one-child-per-generation rule, it's bound to have branched out countless times. Rhoam may be the de-facto king, and married to a member of a cadet branch. Apparently being a woman is a requirement for the powers of the blood of Hylia to fully manifest, so only his wife was taught the procedures.
- I can find no mention that he isn't a descendant. I think we can assume, as with European nobility, a lot of inbreeding was happening. The King probably married a distant cousin who happened to be a priestess. This sort of thing happened all the time to keep blood-lines "pure", and that's before we add in descended from Gods into the mix to have some sort of actual reason to do it. Of course this then raises further questions; if there is a large body of nobility all tangentially related to each other then losing Zelda's mother shouldn't have been the death blow to her teachings the King and Zelda believe it to be.
- Because she's smart enough to know that ruling the kingdom is nothing like sitting on the throne and ordering minions around while gloating in their ego on their high title; The Good King or Queen takes care of their people and make their place safe. After all, she holds the Triforce of Wisdom. So she brushed all her responsibilities as a ruler to her husband even though it means he'll get the glory and status in the process.
- Issue with that would be that the title of "King" couldn't be given to him under any circumstances barring him overthrowing his wife if she was the by blood rights ruling party because that's not how royal titles work period and it is factually wrong to depict them as such and was the core point of my initial complaint/confusion. In order to be King, Rhoam would have to have more royal blood than the Queen does in the first place, so you missed the point about how having the title "King" over "Prince" or "Regent" isn't possible if she was the primary and acknowledged descendant of Hylia instead of him, which is why the focus of most attempts to make sense of this are instead focusing on looking into where his blood right is called into question. Also with the implications that holding the Triforce of Wisdom wouldn't obviously make her best qualified for and the one who would be actually preforming the duties you are at the same time suggesting she delegates away to the man who would still be required to have a lower title than her own by basic law and common sense sounds incredibly confusing at best and overtly sexist at worst as why wouldn't she want her subjects to know who exactly in HER country deserved their respect exactly and by whos authority they lived under?
- One thing I'd like to note is that Rhoam very closely resembles Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule from The Wind Waker (who, by the way, also seemed to possess mystical, divine powers - did anything every say that Hylia's powers only went to the females?), as well as various other Hyrulean kings across the series, just with a longer beard and hair and a pointier nose. The resemblance suggests that they're related through more than just marriage.
- As a common thread seems to be that whatever helped make the idea that Rhoam wasn't Hylia's descendant seems to have been a rumor more than an actual in game claim or a particularly hard to find diary entry so thanks everybody for helping clear that up! Being a Daphnes Expy does make him being at least one of Wind Waker Zelda's descendants does seem very likely (or something similar if this can't connect with that timeline at all) instead of Nintendo just dropping the ball where their research or world building was concerned and falling into harmful/sexist traps regarding royal politics just when they decided to try and go that extra mile for this series. At the very least Zelda's lack of spiritual connection could easily be attributed to just taking after him too much as, even though him being a guy made it a less important issue, he certainly seems less attuned with his bloodline's magic or their piece of the Triforce than Daphnes was and provide a reason for how if her mother was less "pure"/directly connected to Hylia she was supposed to have been in charge of this area of Zelda's teachings.
- As I understand your remarks, you've basically made three distinct arguments: (1) A man cannot become a king by marrying a queen; (2) A king always outranks a queen; and (3) All monarchies operate according to uniform rules of heredity. All three are historically false. Argument (1) is false because there exist two different ways of becoming king by marrying a queen: the king jure uxoris ("by right of [his] wife"), who becomes king in fact as well as name by marrying an heiress or a queen regnant; although these men did not wholly displace their wives, they did acquire the right to rule on their wives' behalves by what English law would later call coverture, the woman's property being automatically administered by her husband. There are a number of examples of kings jure uxoris in the Medieval period: Fulk, Count of Anjou, as king of Jerusalem via Melisende, daughter and heiress of King Baldwin II; Conrad, Marquis of Montferrat, and Aimery, King of Cyprus, as kings of Jerusalem via Queen Isabella I; John of Brienne (later emperor of Constantinople) as king of Jerusalem via Queen Mary (Isabella I's daughter by Conrad); Emperor Frederick II as king of Jerusalem via Queen Isabella II (Mary I's daughter by John); Philip IV, King of France, as King Philip I of Navarre via Queen Joan I; Emperor Sigismund as king of Hungary via Queen Mary; and Albert V, Duke of Austria, as king of Hungary via Elizabeth of Luxemburg, daughter and heiress of Emperor Sigismund. Kingship jure uxoris more or less died out by the time of the Renaissance and the Early Modern Period. Around this time we see the rise of the king consort, as women were accepted as queens regnant suo jure; their husbands might be granted the title of king. The existence of the king consort simultaneously demonstrates that both arguments (1) and (2) are false. Examples of kings consort include Philip IV of Burgundy as King Philip I of Castile via Queen Juana I; Philip of Spain, King of Naples (later Philip II of Spain), as king of England via Queen Mary I (Philip's father, Emperor Charles V, had donated his kingship of Naples to Philip in 1554 as a wedding gift, so that the Spanish prince would be equal in rank to his fiancée, Queen Mary, at the time of their wedding); Francis II of France as king of Scots via Queen Mary; Henry Stuart, Lord Dudley, as king of Scots via the same Queen Mary; Infante Pedro of Portugal as King Peter III of Portugal via Queen Mary I; Prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha-Koháry as King Ferdinand II of Portugal via Queen Mary II; and Francisco, Duque de Cádiz, as king of Spain via Queen Isabella II. There are also a handful of cases in which a queen regnant shared her authority with her husband as co-ruler without being legally displaced by him, such as Prince Louis of Taranto as king of Naples via Queen Joanna I; Philip, Count of Évreaux, as King Philip III of Navarre via Queen Joan II; Jogaila, Grand Duke of Lithuania, as King Władysław II of Poland via Queen Jadwiga; Ferdinand II of Aragon as King Ferdinand V of Castile via Queen Isabella I; and William III, Prince of Orange, as King William III of England via Queen Mary II. Władysław and William continued to reign after their wives died. Argument (3) is false because each monarchy operates on its own individual rules. In England (and by extension, the modern UK), male-preference primogeniture meant that a female could inherit the crown if there was no male with a superior claim (e.g., Mary I, Anne, Victoria, Elizabeth II), and also that the line of succession can pass through a female dynast (e.g., the current Prince of Wales and his sons). In France, however, the legal fiction of Salic law forbade a woman from inheriting the crown and also forbade the line of succession from passing through female dynasts (i.e., if a king's daughter had a son, he would have no rights of succession through his mother). In the Holy Roman Empire, Poland, Bohemia, and Hungary, the crown became elective (although in many cases, election was merely a formality). In Wallachia, any male with royal blood was eligible to succeed, even if he were illegitimate. In the Ottoman Empire, any male of the dynasty could become sultan through a rather vague process of dynastic consensus, resulting in uncles succeeding their nephews on occasion. Furthermore, all of these rules operated only so long as it was advantageous to the most influential and most powerful that they operate. When these rules were inconvenient, people could and did flout them. The Norman Invasion (1066), the Anarchy (1135-1154), the Hundred Years' War (1337-1453), the Wars of the Roses (1455-1487), the War of the Castilian Succession (1475-1479), the War of the Burgundian Succession (1477-1482), the War of the Portuguese Succession (1580-1583), the War of the Spanish Succession (1702-1715), the War of the Austrian Succession (1740-1748), the '45 Rebellion (1745), the War of the Bavarian Succession (1778-1779), and the Carlist Wars (1833-1840, 1846-1849, 1872-1876) — to name only a few prominent examples — were all results of disputes over succession.This is to say nothing of civil wars or usurpations of monarchs already ruling. Of course, all of this is moot because (A) there is no evidence whatsoever that King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule is not king suo jure, and (B) we know very little about how the House of Hyrule determines succession. As far as point (A) is concerned, Rhoam bears a physical resemblance to the King of Hyrule (AL), the King of Hyrule (LP), King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule (WW), King Daltus and King Gustaf (MC), and the deuterocanonical King Harkinian (LZ animated series and comic series, but less so his appearances in FE and WG), and, like Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, appears to use Hyrule as a cognomen or surname. All of this circumstantially suggests that he should be interpreted as exactly what he appears to be. With respect to point (B), we know only that the royal family apparently practices male-preference primogeniture during the Golden Age in the Downfall timeline (the Prince of Hyrule and the Princess Zelda in AL), and that it is possible for a princess to be "queen-in-waiting" (TP trading cards and Prima guides). Presumably this means she is the legal ruler in reginam promovenda, pending some the completion of some ceremony or other condition before coronation as queen, and we further assume that this is the case of other princesses whom we might otherwise expect to have acceded as queens (the Princess Zelda in the Adult era of OT, Tetra in WW and PH, the Princess Zelda in ST, and the Princess Zelda in BW, although it is also possible that some of these princesses could be regents pending the arrival of another dynast with a superior claim to succession). We simply don't know how the crown is passed, and there's certainly no reason to assume that the English rules of succession apply.
- The short version of the above is: "Yes, a man can become a king by marrying a queen. No, this does not automatically mean he rules instead of her. No, there's no reason to assume that King Rhoam shouldn't be king."
- The issues with the above come from saying we have no reason to assume Rhoam isn't the by-blood king when we really do, which is what lead to the king debate. If he married into the royal family taking his wife's surname in a case like this would most likely be the expected practice, so his name doesn't seem to prove much of anything here. Looking like kings of the past could also be just as indicative of him coming from one of the supposed side families as he is lacking in the royal family's ability to use Hylia's magic which seems a lot more important for this than appearances. Hylia's bloodline being central to why "Princess Zelda" is always a princess (As opposed to just having the prophecy say a descendant of Hylia is needed to seal Ganon) seems to indicate their connection to this Goddess is why they are the ruling family, a lot like the legends about the Japanese ruling family being descendant of the Goddess Amaterasu in a variation of the divine right of kings, so it seems like decent reasoning to assume he's more likely to have married into the family than his wife did. Had Hylia's power come from a "side family" it seems odd he wouldn't have had any other alternatives for Zelda's teacher after the Queen died, as mentioned above, when if the power was kept within the direct royal family this element of the story makes more sense. Also it's unclear if Hylia's power really is gender locked since no other goddesses power in this series seems to be restricted in this way, as two of the three holders of the Golden Goddesses' triforce are male, and since Wind Waker's king was adept at least at general magic, given how he animated the King of Red Lions and created the Pirate's Charm, Rhoam completely lacking in this area sticks out more as an oddity.
- In point of fact, no, we really don't have any reason to assume that Rhoam is not king suo jure. There is no evidence saying this. There is no reason to assume this. Your suggestion that he might have adopted his wife's name — which has no precedent in history that I am aware of (the closest being the examples of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine and the surname Mountbatten-Windsor, neither of which support your argument) — is both begging the question and a violation of Ockham's razor. There is no reason to assume that his surname "Hyrule" means anything other than his dynastic kingship of Hyrule, so you are positing complexity without need in order to explain why he has it. Your talk about his apparent lack of magic powers is irrelevant; of the eight kings of Hyrule we know of (Harkinian, AL, LP, OT, Daphnes, Daltus, Gustaf, and Rhoam), precisely one of them (Daphnes) has displayed magical abilities without use of the Triforce — and there is absolutely no indication that his magic has anything to do with Hylia, given that it is possible for Hyrulians to learn magic via study (AL) or to use it via talismans (LP, OT) — , so there is no reason to believe that magic has any strong correlation to Hylian kingship. If anything, the ability to use magic makes Daphnes the odd man out.
- I would also like to point out that Hyrule was both founded by a woman and named after a goddess. It's very likely that despite being called a 'kingdom', it is very likely that queens were the higher ranking royalty, especially considering that only women could inherit Hylia's power.
- You mean they used the wrong word and use of "kingdom" has become a case of The Artifact as the series has gone on? Since there is already a word for this concept in English, as pointed out in the question that led to this. A queendom would be a realm controlled by a queen first and foremost, much the same way kingdoms are for kings which is why ruling queens in a kingdom are technically considered "queen regent" when "regent" is a title for someone serving in the place of the "proper" ruling party.
- You're mistaken. A ruling queen in a kingdom is called a "queen regnant," to make clear that she is reigning in her own right and is not a queen consort, a woman who has the title of queen because she is married to a king; it is possible for one woman to be both a queen regnant and a queen consort (e.g., Isabella the Catholic, Mary of England, Maria Theresia). "Queen regent" refers either to a queen consort who exercises royal authority in a kingdom on behalf of her husband the king (who is absent or incapacitated) or to a queen dowager (wife of a previous king who is now dead) who exercises royal authority in a kingdom on behalf of her son the king or her daughter the queen regnant (who is absent, incapacitated, or has not reached his or her majority).
- Is it really that hard to believe that a fictional kingdom just has a different hierarchy/titles/rules for succession? There's never been much but practically everything we've ever heard about the Hylian royal court across all games doesn't jive with historical monarchies. At this point it's more ridiculous to try and shoehorn the Hyrule family into our understanding of real-world royalty than it is to just start theorizing how their monarchy works from scratch.
- That's what I was going to say, but I'm gonna rehash anyway. First of all it's not like this is the first time we've had a Hylian King; Daphnes from WW and OoT's King, for instance, and there's no evidence for or against them being of Hylia's blood. Secondly, as the above says, it's a fictional world and applying real world conventions to it without any proof of it is kind of silly. Hyrule could easily be a "a Prince/Princess has to get married and they become King and Queen" sort of Kingdom. TBH I didn't even read all of the real world examples and arguments because bottom line... this is not the real world. There are flying tree people, giant bird people, giant fish people, ROCK people, flying dragons, and that's not even getting into monsters and Gods and such. It's not the real world, bottom line.
- Hyrule is a fictional kingdom so it likely follows different rules. Since the power of the bloodline only appears to manifest in the women of the royal family it's possible that succession is matriarchal (and the powers might even been seen as the right to rule, remember Rhoam's line about "heir to nothing"). Also remember that Hyrule fell on the day Zelda went to the Spring of Wisdom, which was her 17th birthday and the day she was seen as an adult in Hyrule (No one under the age of 17 is allowed there) so Rhoam could have been Zelda's regent. Now Rhoam could easily also be a descendant of Hylia, see above about the Royal family branching out and intermarrying with other noble families (this might even be a requirement of the royal spouse to keep the bloodline and powers as strong as possible), but since he's not a female of the line he doesn't know how to access the special powers.
- Technically speaking, we also have no reason to assume that Hylia's power doesn't manifest in male members of the royal line; as previously noted, Daphnes displayed magical talent that was never implied to be not his own (when recounting how Ganondorf overtook Hyrule, he does say "My power alone could not stop the fiend"), and the king from Adventure of Link also knew enough to hide the Triforce of Courage so well. Neither of those contradict anything we're told in this game, either, because even if Rhoam can access the divine magic of his line, he's established as being such a stickler for tradition that he would still see the duty to harness it as falling to Zelda, if he even knows that he could do it just as well himself.
- Age of Calamity contains some details that shed a bit more light on things. Rhoam's main weapon in that game is a Royal Claymore, which is explicitly stated to be the type of weapon issued to the royal family's personal guards. This strongly implies that Rhoam served in the Royal Guard, and may have even been one of Zelda's mother's bodyguards prior to their marriage (in real-world history, it wasn't unusual for younger sons in noble families to enter the military, where their rank would put them on the fast track to promotion—Hyrule's nobility might do something similar). While not an outright confirmation, this suggests that Zelda's mother was the direct heir and Rhoam married into the throne. If the sealing power is a sign of the right to rule, as mentioned above, Rhoam may fall victim to the opposite side of the coin: he can't use it because he's King by marriage, not a direct member of the royal line. If it's accepted in-universe that Zelda is the only one who can wield it as long as she's alive and has no children, this would also explain why no one else with Hylian blood is trying to unlock the sealing power in her stead.
- There's still his resemblance to previous Hylian kings, though, particularly Daphnes in The Wind Waker, who seemed to be a direct heir since he possessed the requisite powers. And Rhoam is already a king by the time of Age of Calamity when he's using the Royal Claymour. Being so adept with it doesn't mean he must have had a past as a royal guard; he could've been born a royal who chose to use it as a weapon.
Is there anything we should do about this? I've briefly touched upon this in the Headscratchers cleanup thread
but even with a possible conclusion I still have no idea what to do.
openGrammar Issues
Kindaguy 201 could use a bit of a tap on the shoulder - they haven't edited much yet, but their edits have several grammar issues. I sent them a notifier after this edit
which featured indentation issues, a sentence beginning in the middle of a thought, and the wrong form of "it's". As shown by this edit
, for which I've sent another notifier, they have not visited the GHWE thread, as it contains improper capitalization, a missing space, lacking a possessive apostrophe, and the wrong form of "to".
openEncanto Film
I know Tearjeaker is based on opinion, but there are a few entries on TearJerker.Encanto that I feel are a bit too opinionated.
For example: *** After explaining her backstory, one couldn't help but think that she must feel that her husband would be ashamed of her.
Then there is this which was deleted and then readded: * Mirabel's "you're perfect as you are!" conversation with her mother when her hand is healed is sweet and funny...but there's also a bit of justified bitterness in Mirabel's tone when she points out that Julieta has just healed her hand with magic. Julieta is correct — but Julieta is also the Madrigal with the most manageable and most obviously beneficial power. From her daughter's perspective, it's a bit like a supermodel lecturing you on why looks aren't everything. It also doesn't help that Julieta still thinks that Mirabel was (possibly unconsciously) acting out because of envy at Antonio's successful ceremony — she's one of Mirabel's strongest supporters, and even she doubts her.
Even more heartwrenching is that this moment also makes Julieta unknowingly insensitive in another layer - as stated earlier, the Madrigal family took a family picture without Mirabel. And even Julieta didn't notice. So, when Julieta makes that line, it rings even hollower. Her mother essentially expects Mirabel to see herself as 'perfect' as she is while she's stuck in an environment that singles her out near constantly. There's no escaping how different she is from the rest of her family — she lives in the nursery of a magic house (because she was "unworthy" of her own special room), in a town shaped by her family's powers, in a community where she's known as the "not-special one". And that's not counting the times where she's actively treated as the family screw-up. Good luck accepting yourself in those circumstances.
I might be overreacting, but some of this is more alternate character interpretation.
Edited by LadyErinNYopenDeleting YMMV examples for no reasons Live Action TV
Today, I noticed at least two old examples in YMMV page of Kevin Can F**k Himself without edit reason a few months ago. He Really Can Act example was deleted by Rm 74 and WTH, Casting Agency? example was deleted by meatwadf. Here's what the examples look like before deletion:
- He Really Can Act: Mary gives it her all in "Fixed". She displays her anger, sadness and grief when Patty calls out Allison for making her search into Tammy's belongings.
- WTH, Casting Agency?: Annie Murphy's comedic and dramatic talents have already been acclaimed, and her performance here was similarly praised. At the same time though, a few thought that Erin Hayes should've played Allison given her role as the the wife on Kevin Can Wait was the inspiration for this show, and the series would've felt more powerful if an actress screwed over by the sitcom stereotypes parodied here was the one rebelling against them.
- In an interview with Vulture (Vulture had been consistently advocating for her to get a part), Erinn Hayes herself says she loves the idea and script of Kevin Can F**k Himself but she understands that casting her as the main role would be iffy, as her character death on her previous series and its controversy could draw too much attention away from this show.
Should the examples need to be brought back or there's a reason for a deletion?
Edited by BubblepigopenDoes this fall into troping real people?
I recently made an edit on Princely Young Man about Japanese media's tendency to dub young, handsome men with some achievements (especially in sports) "ouji" or "oujisama", essentially applying this trope to them. I stopped the edit there without elaborating on why one such example (figure skater Yuzuru Hanyu) fits the Princely Young Man model. Am I allowed to elaborate why Hanyu is considered The Ouji, because his public reputation (in and of itself a PR creation/curated image) fits the trope description to a tee? Would that fall under troping real people (or worse, one-handed troping if not just merely gushing)?
Source for this claim
(in addition to other media coverage I've seen scattered around the internet, including at least one Japanese TV channel putting "Some Day My Prince Will Come" over footage of Hanyu).
If that is an absolute no-no, should the trope be made NRLEP lest it invites gushing?
Edited by annieholmesopenDEKU SDCP Film
Yo, I saw in a cleanup thread that Izuku Midoriya from My Hero Academia had a SDCP then got cut. I was wondering if someone could bring that back or at the very least allow a sandbox page for me or someone else to draft one. I feel like with Deku's dorky, self-deprecating, nervously neurotic behavior would make for some great humor. I would say he has some of the most unique traits out of the My Hero cast and maybe even make pages for a perv like Mineta or a hothead like Bakugo at the very least. MHA deserves more SDCP's than just Tsuyu who's own page practically has like 5 things and that's it.
openEdit war on the Tear Jerker page
On December 7, the troper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=FantiSci
added this to the tear jerker page of Encanto.
- Mirabel's "you're perfect as you are!" conversation with her mother when her hand is healed is sweet and funny...but there's also a bit of justified bitterness in Mirabel's tone when she points out that Julieta has just healed her hand with magic. Julieta is correct — but Julieta is also the Madrigal with the most manageable and most obviously beneficial power. From her daughter's perspective, it's a bit like a supermodel lecturing you on why looks aren't everything. It also doesn't help that Julieta still thinks that Mirabel was (possibly unconsciously) acting out because of envy at Antonio's successful ceremony — she's one of Mirabel's strongest supporters, and even she doubts her.
- Even more heartwrenching is that this moment also makes Julieta unknowingly insensitive in another layer - as stated earlier, the Madrigal family took a family picture without Mirabel. And even Julieta didn't notice. So, when Julieta makes that line, it rings even hollower.
- In addition to this, the family do nothing to stand up for Mirabel when Alma is being cruel to her. Her mother essentially expects Mirabel to see herself as 'perfect' as she is while she's stuck in an environment that singles her out near constantly
On December 24, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=whoseliner
removed it with the edit reason: that they do stand for her.
On that same day, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=FantiSci
added it back with this for an edit reason: Last edit deleted an entire entry on the basis that they disagreed with a small part of it.
On the 26, I removed all of that with a few others while linking it to this discussion: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13327578050A72722200&page=325#comment-8105
To their credit, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=FantiSci
did try to stark a discussion even though they technically already edit warred (I didn't realize until I started digging to find the original poster) https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=TearJerker.Encanto
However, today, I found that they had added it back with this edit reason: See discussion - there is plenty of evidence in the film to justify these points.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=TearJerker.Encanto
Except as you will see in my second to last link, no had replied to their discussion. Permission to redelete?
Edited by LadyErinNYopenFire and Blood Designated Hero Literature
I feel like the YMMV for Fire and Blood calling Jaehaerys a Designated Hero is wrong and should be removed because 1) Jaehaerys did plenty of legitimately great things for Westeros. 2) It was Baelon who let Alyssa humiliate Vaegon in the training yard. 3) Jaehaerys sending Vaegon to the Citadel was something Vaegon himself was happy to do. 4) Saera and her male consorts were legitimately awful people and Jaehaerys treated his daughter very well until he learned of her many misdeeds. 5) Jaehaerys had a good argument as to why trying to bring back Saera from Lys would cause nothing but trouble and correctly guessed that his daughter wanted nothing more to do with her family. 6) Arranged marriages like the ones Daella and Viserra had are commonplace amongst Westeros nobility. And 7) Westeros is an inherently male oriented culture and Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys as his successor, while sexist, would be the expected choice for him to make.
Edited by ChubzhacopenBetter Description Music
I recently thought of improving upon the (rather sparse) page for Ken Ashcorp, and even included him in the namespace for pages needing work. However, seeing no activity for several months, I decided to start working on it myself. The biggest problem I saw with the page was the description - it was in a serious need of updating. I finished my version of the new description, but I think I'm gonna need it peer-reviewed. Is this thread a good place for peer reviews? If so, here are the two versions of the description for comparison.
Edited by AoeAbilityopenLiterature / Her Father's Daughter Does not even HAVE a description!
I dont care enough to research and add one myself. What do?
openrequesting an addition Anime
I was surprised that Guts from Berserk isn't on the anime and manga section of the Hurting Hero trope examples. This may sound dumb, but I'm kind of nervous that I'll mess up the formatting if I do it myself, so I just thought I'd suggest instead.
openTough Act To Follow
FTR, the phrase means, "This remains more beloved than its successor(s)", doesn't it? I've found and edited three instances of someone using the term to mean, "This couldn't compare to its predecessor(s)"; the fact that it meets the Rule of Three makes me want to double-check that I didn't misinterpret the phrase myself.
To recall a specific example, YMMV.Hello Dolly referred to Bette Midler as a tough act for Barbra Streisand to follow, even though Streisand played Dolly in 1968, and Midler in 2017.
openJackpot21 removing Fridges from Ladybug that are good/fixable instead of bad (At least IMO) Western Animation
...Yes, I know, but I can assure you that Jackpot has no interest in talking to me and discussions on the pages have not worked for me.
(NOTE: The following is for the stuff removed in the 10:37 PM edit on October 19th. While I have other things that I disagree with Jackpot removing in past edits, I put those on the Discussion page and the Mods prefer one or the other).
First: in the removal of a additional bit onto an Fridge for 'Gang of Secrets'. This fridge bit.
...
The fact that Marinette wasn´t akumatized after breaking up with Luka isn´t so strange. She's been trying to distract herself from her sadness, probably to avoid attracting Shadow Moth's attention.
...
This is what was removed.
...
- Also, her anger is towards Shadow Moth. Considering his actions as villain, for Gabriel it should be nothing particular that a civilian hates his alter-ego.
- It's also very likely Gabriel deliberately doesn't send akuma after people who are specifically angry at Hawk/Shadow Moth themselves because they'd be very unlikely to cooperate with him and/or he'd be empowering people that want to directly use it against him. He's used people angry at "Gabriel" before since they don't realize that's the person they are cooperating with and he's safe in his lair from them, but akumatizing someone who wants to target his villain self would probably be counter productive.
- Also, her anger is towards Shadow Moth. Considering his actions as villain, for Gabriel it should be nothing particular that a civilian hates his alter-ego.
...
While you could probably streamline this a bit, this is not a unfair point. The guy can sense what is causing a negative emotion, he monologues about what is causing the pain when he hears it. It is not hard to add onto the above point with that additional point.
Second: from Crocoduel. This one could have used some tweaking in the flow at the end, but he cut off the end part of this
...
- Juleka's hero form, like her akuma form, is a lot brighter than her normal get up. However Rose's is not darker looking like her akuma, but just as bright as normal. Both an Akuma and a Miraculous bring out an inner look for a hero and a villain, and both girls do admire the other. Other neither seem to see a dark clad hero as ideal: they don't want to be Batman they want to be like Ladybug or Majesta.
To this
...
- Juleka's hero form, like her akuma form, is a lot brighter than her normal get up. However Rose's is not darker looking like her akuma, but just as bright as normal. Both an Akuma and a Miraculous bring out an inner look for a hero and a villain, and both girls do admire the other.
...
With the bit missing it it lacks the clarification that the idea is that while they admire the looks of the other (the bright Rose to the dark Juleka and vice versa), their idea of what a hero is the same (bright).
Third from Optigami
This is the original version
...
- Shadow Moth choosing Nino/Carapace as the one to impersonate makes a lot of sense. As Adrien's friend, he's over their place constantly so he'd be overly familiar with his attitude and how to convincingly act like him. And in "Heart Hunter", he battled Fu as Jade Turtle who transformed in front of him and used his power so he remembered Wayzz's name (and depending on the language version the words to transform) and how to use Shelter properly so he could even convincingly impersonate Carapace. He only gives himself away by not reciprocating Alya's handshake properly, something that Gabriel would have never seen. While Gabriel also saw most of the rest transform in "Miracle Queen", he barely knows anything about them and could possibly slip up, and in the case of Kagami, while he is familiar with her enough to convincingly impersonate her, she didn't transform in Miracle Queen so him not knowing Longg's name (especially when Kagami herself was happy to see him again last time) to transform would raise suspicions. It also let him get Alya as bait, as was said in episdoe.
...
This is what it was edited to.
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- Shadow Moth choosing Nino/Carapace as the one to impersonate makes a lot of sense. As Adrien's friend, he's over their place constantly so he'd be overly familiar with his attitude and how to convincingly act like him. And in "Heart Hunter", he battled Fu as Jade Turtle who transformed in front of him and used his power so he remembered Wayzz's name (and depending on the language version the words to transform) and how to use Shelter properly so he could even convincingly impersonate Carapace. He only gives himself away by not reciprocating Alya's handshake properly, something that Gabriel would have never seen.
...
While episdoe did need to be fixed, I don't see the point in removing the last bit. The idea in the above clarifies why the Kagami option was not considered. (there is some show reasons why that would be caught quicker, but this is in moth's mind, not Cat's mind). It's not bad information to elaborate on.
Fourth: Also from Optigami the following was removed.
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- Chloe was the only temporary hero who did not show heroic traits in this episode whne in a situation to do sonote Kim missed the entire snafu by getting into one of his self-inflicted races, and thus was in no place to help anyone, while Chloe did, from making the moves to be ready in case they were needed to helping others try to get to safety. Another step in the 'Chloe was never a hero' demonstration.
...
Several other tropes entries describe bits that elaborate on showing how Chloe was not ever a true hero from her uniform to why her complex developed in Maledictator to comparing King Monkey to Queen Bee by multiple tropers. The episode does feature virtually every other present temp hero to show these traits, which I see no reason to discard as an observation of Fridge Brilliance.
While there are other removals I do disagree with, these are the ones that strike me as the most counterproductive and needless and would like help either restoring them properly, or a good reason why they should stay off.
(Last time I had raised a forum here on the topic, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=104957&type=att
, in regards to a Sevens Fridge removal, but not only is some of this stuff individual Fridge bits and not an additional point (though most of these are), well as was said in that entry by the one respondent War Jay 77 could be summed as 'if we stretched it could be called Natter but doing that would basically require a scrubbing of all fridge pages' in regards to these points and others.
So...is there anything that can be done in this situation?
openWonder Woman = Pinball Protagonist? Film
The DC Extended Universe version of Wonder Woman is classified as a Pinball Protagonist in her solo movie under this argument: "If Steve Trevor had escaped from the Germans without going through Themyscira, the world would have been exactly the same. He would have brought Dr. Poison's notebook to British High-Command, they would have ignored it, Steve would have recruited his friends to go after the chemical plant, Veld wouldn't have been liberated but it would still have been wiped out the next day, Steve would have tracked Ludendorf to the plant, and sacrificed himself to destroy the gas. The only significant thing Diana did was kill Ares, which didn't make much of a difference, since he only influenced humans to go to war with each other and create weapons of mass destruction, and humans continued to do that after he died anyway."
Is this true or just nitpicking?
openRoleplay/DawnOfWorlds
Stumbled across this. It seems weird we have a page for a roleplay using the system but don't have one for the system itself? Is this normal?

Are the 450
wicks to Music, an issue?
Not sure how to clean it.
Since that's a disambig, not an article like Radio is... which has 150+
itself, and is an index.
Edited by Malady