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Ask the Tropers:
openDisabled in the Adaptation Entry Question Live Action TV
This is on the Disabled in the Adaptation page. Unmarked spoilers ahead!
- The Walking Dead:
- Two surviving (as of this edit) characters from the source material, Sophia Peletier and Carl Grimes, both die in the show by becoming walkers.
My assumption is that in the show, Sophia becomes a walker and Carl shoots himself in the head to prevent himself from reanimating. And even then, is this really an example since the two characters in the entry clearly don't demonstrate any disabilities while they're alive. Thanks.
openSpoiler Marked Late Arrival Spoiler? Western Animation
Are Late-Arrival Spoiler entries allowed to be spoiler marked? Because I just found one on Characters.Ninjago Ninja, and it seems a little weird to me (the marking, not the entry itself).
openSearching Discarded Tropes on the TLP?
Is there a way to search through discarded tropes on the TLP? I’m looking for a trope I remember seeing on the TLP, but searching it on both the main site and the TLP page itself brought up nothing. Is there a way to search the discarded tropes, or is it more along the lines of “these things were discarded for a reason”?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
openFirst Person Writing on Rhymes on a Dime
So, in the Real Life section of Rhymes on a Dime, some troper(s) decided to write a couple of examples as a Self-Demonstrating Article:
- Nipsey Russell could pull off a couplet at just the drop of a hat. Name another talented person who could ever do just that.
- Wayne Brady, lady?
- Not just him, but most of the the guests on both versions of Whose Line Is It Anyway? Josie Lawrence was particularly good at this type of play.
- I could argue, I guess, but it's not worth the ink; I'll just say it's not quite as hard as you think.
- If you're a Knick fan, you're used to hearing it from Walt "Clyde" Frasier, man.
Normally I would delete as an instance of First-Person Writing as it is a violation of wiki rules, but in this case it is clearly part of the self-demonstrating style. What should I do?
openSonic's Dr. Eggman— a misuse of "Affably Evil" Videogame
(Very thorough post below, apologies for length)
Dear Ask the Tropers,
I want to discuss how Sonic the Hedgehog Big Bad Dr. Eggman might be better off as an example of Faux Affably Evil as opposed to Affably Evil, the latter of which is what most descriptions of him I've seen on this site describe him as (including some trope subpage-only cases, hence why I've come over to Ask the Tropers). Spoilers unmarked for ease of reading.
Here are the main entries regarding him:
- Dr. Eggman from Sonic The Hedgehog has his moments of this.
- In Sonic Adventure 2 he acted very pleasant and, though he came close to killing Sonic, he was shown almost regretting it, showing profound respect for him after all the years that they were rivals. He had also been seen getting along with Tails at the end of the game. It also showed that he had the deepest respect for his grandfather, Gerald Robotnik.
- The best example was probably Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), where he's shown acting politely and gently most of the time, especially in front of Elise (except for the whole kidnapping part, of course).
- In the ending of Sonic Generations: The classic version, having learned that he never defeats Sonic, ponders upon pursuing a career as a teacher instead.
- Affably Evil: Despite really wanting to Take Over the World — and occasionally going to some extreme lengths to achieve this goal — Eggman's a fairly pleasant fellow who usually treats his enemies with Villain Respect.
- In Sonic Adventure 2, he lowers his head in melancholy after seemingly killing Sonic, and later gets along with the heroes after teaming up with them.
- In Sonic Colors, he takes Sonic's advice regarding threatening him directly rather than going through a bunch of terrible amusement-park-related puns on the way — for which Sonic then thanks him.
- In Sonic Lost World, he saves Tails' life from the rogue Cubot, even though it isn't necessary for his master plan, and seems to genuinely respect Tails. He's a complicated guy.
Here's my counterargument.
He loves being what he thinks is the most civilized and enlightened guy in the room, plain and simple, and the trope subpages of quite a few different adaptations have already described their Robotniks/Eggmen as "Faux", despite how two of them (AoStH and the movie) were heavily comedy-focused.
Now, I'm sure there might be a couple cases out there of game-universe!Eggman being genuinely affable (maybe just during Olympic season or something, the Twitter Takeovers are more of a different kind of portrayal altogether), but these are too few and far between to be a defining trait.
Let's look at the alleged examples being most frequently cited:
- Sonic Adventure 2:
- The Misaimed Fandom entry I put on the game's YMMV page explains the "Gerald" bit in detail. Long story short, he looked up to his grandpa as a brilliant scientist rather than because of anything benevolent, and he's disappointed that Gerald went crazy trying to destroy the world since he takes pride in his own Pragmatic Villainy.
- The "admirable adversary" scene has him send Sonic to his death via explosive escape pod and then lowering his head out of respect… before immediately getting over it and pointing his gun back at Tails. His Dark Story recap also has him gleefully proclaim, "I finally did it! I've defeated Sonic! That annoying hedgehog is gone forever! He's nothing but floating chunks in space now!"
- He did get along with the heroes during the Last Story, but, y'know, no world means no empire so necessity and all that.
- The somber "you're right" response he gives to Tails' "we all did it together" was meant to fit with the equally somber tone of Shadow's death and Gerald's tainted legacy. As sincere as it sounds, it's just Eggman acknowledging the facts after being briefly lost in a moment of thought.
- Here's a Dummied Out exchange that was meant to happen after that, anyways:
Tails: "Where are you going?"
- Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): He's only gentlemanly to Elise because she has something he wants and he still tries to get rid of Sonic and friends in multiple ways. And he doesn't even give Elise a nice room or a meal.
- Sonic Unleashed: He keeps Professor Pickle fed with cucumber sandwiches on request. Yeah, a corpse is less useful than someone to interrogate, food makes a good bribe in case you don't have a lot of other time and options, and he got the recipe wrong anyways.
- Sonic Colors: The "Eggman changes his evil speech at Sonic's request" scene was most likely meant to be played for laughs given how the doctor does it begrudgingly. There's also this line he gives afterwards to Sonic: "I would say it's been nice knowing you, but it hasn't." Not even this game has a genuinely nice Eggman.
- Sonic Generations: The whole "teaching degree" joke was probably meant to be sarcasm from Classic Eggman, with Modern Eggman missing the point and only considering it because "I've always enjoyed telling people what to do!", causing his Classic self to Face Palm. Also Lost World and Mania happened because each Eggman went back to world conquest, so no.
- Sonic Lost World:
- It's stated in a Magnificent Bastard entry and supported by the game's ending that he only saved Tails to make sure his Enemy Mine with Sonic stayed on schedule. At best, I guess you can argue that he'd want to beat Sonic and Tails personally.
- A scene earlier into the game (the one where Sonic sets the Zeti loose) has him tell the Deadly Six that he's a "compassionate" man… with the rest of what he says being covered up by Sonic and Tails talking over him. Listening closely, this is what he says to the Zeti:
Eggman: "I'm a compassionate man, or else I would've dropped you into a bottomless pit by now!"
- The game in general seems to subtly emphasize how is Eggman a Jerk with a Heart of Jerk— he's back to stuffing animals in robots, he only sees the Zeti as useful lackeys for him, he doesn't care that the Cacophonic Conch's noises are "very painful" to the Zeti and only that the shell itself is "very rare", and he only saves Sonic's life so the hedgehog can get rid of the Zeti for him while he sneaks back to his Extractor device. And to top it all off, this line just oozes with Faux Affably Evil:
Eggman: "Finally, with the energy drained from the Extractor, I can rule the world! Pity about the damage done down there, but there's still enough left for me to conquer."
And considering how he's a very Opportunistic Bastard willing to pervert anything to get what he wants (e.g. Little Planet, Angel Island, an ancient pyramid, a planet, five planets, time and space, a guy's very reason to live, etc.), I think it's safe to say he'd even exploit a Draco in Leather Pants situation like this one if he existed in the real world.
Hence, why I think we should change this. My proposed plan here is to edit the main pages that matter and then edit those linked to it in some way. I'll deal with the latter once I've gotten the go-ahead for the former.
Thank you all for listening.
Many regards, Blurry
openSlur used on South Park page, what should I do?
Was reading the fridge page of South Park: Post Covid: The Return of Covid, when I came across this entry (problem word bolded):
The entry is fine by itself, however it uses the word "cripple" to refer to being disabled, which IIRC is considered a slur in that context. I would've removed it, but as it's in a subpage for an entry of South Park, a show that's meant to be super offensive, I'm not sure as they could’ve used that word in that context in the episode mentioned (Note I haven't seen that episode).
So, um what should I do in this case?
Edited by Cutegirl920fireopenIs Ship Sinking a main page or YMMV trope?
I believe I read somewhere that it is a main page trope but I also often find it on the YMMV pages like these from Once Upon A Time:
- Ship Sinking:
- Graham/Emma was sunk with Graham's death.
- "Selfless, Brave, and True" torpedoed Emma/August when the latter is rejuvenated into a little boy. This will never be able without Squick. Fans briefly regained hope when August regained his old body in Season 4, only for Emma to confirm their relationship is Like Brother and Sister.
- Similarly, Baelfire/Wendy is no longer a possibility, as Baelfire grew up and Wendy did not.
- Peter Pan/Henry sunk like a rock after "Think Lovely Thoughts".
- Swanfire as Neal is Killed Off for Real in 'Quiet Minds'. Diehard fans of the ship hoped for some kind of reunion when Emma traveled to the Underworld, only for the writers to reveal that Neal Ascended to a Higher Plane of Existence, leaving no doubt as to the chances of it actually happening.
- Rumbelle seems to have been sunk in the Season 4 winter finale, as Belle laments how she'll never be first in his heart, says she can't see any good in him anymore, and then banishes him from Storybrooke. However, it's on its way to righting itself again in Season 5.
- Swan Queen has been sunk by the show's creators, who stated at San Diego Comic-Con 2013 that it was never going to happen. In-Universe, it's sunk by Emma and Regina both hooking up with someone else without expressing any romantic inclination in each other, and even encouraging the other to go for their respective Love Interest.
So, should these be moved to the main page?
I am sorry if this is not the place to ask this but I did not know where else to go.
Edited by BullmanopenOn Images for Newly-Launched Tropes
Launched my new trope earlier today, and I saw someone else added a pic to it. I know I forfeit any conceit of ownership when I launched it, but I feel the pic isn't clear enough (figuratively because I tend to think of the castle before Mickey Mouse for Disney, and literally because it's kinda fuzzy) and could also be misconstrued as Company Cross-References instead.
Is this the sort of thing I can just change myself, or can I ask in here since it's a recent launch? Or is this the type of thing that should be taken to the Image Suggestion Thread
or a new thread entirely?
openYack Fest, "Post a random song (one per poster per day)"
On the forum "Post a random song (one per poster per day)". There's a rule that says, for good reason, anyone posting a submission can only make one post per day. this is clearly stated in the Forum rules
"Post one song per poster, per day. This is so the thread doesn't fill up too rapidly."
Now before I posted there I made sure anything I posted would be compliant with the forum rules and familiarised myself with them.
I've just received a PM from troper themayorofsimpleton which states that I did in fact break this forum rule by posting twice on the same day.
With respect, I do not think I did. One posting was made on Sunday evening. The second posting was made on the Monday morning. No previous or subsequent postings were made on either day. Therefore, I was in compliance with the rule copied above. The timestamps on the postings show one was on the 11/5/25 - May 11th - and the second one was on 12/5/25 - May 12th - made approximately 13 hours apart, but on two seperate days.
Could I ask:
Whose time zone are we using to delineate this rule? I work in GMT (well, British Summer time which is GMT +1). Is the forum perhaps using somebody else's time zone as the datum marker? If the default time zone is PST or something that's a long way behind GMT, then maybe it is the case that - inadvertently - I did post twice on the Sunday.
Perhaps the rule at the top of the forum should therefore be clarified -
"Post one song per poster, in any one twenty-four hour period. This is so the thread doesn't fill up too rapidly."
This makes it more objective and therefore less prone to ambiguity?
And yes - I will undertake not to post more than once in any given 24 hour period...
Edited by AgProvopenPage moves/edits without approval
I made a request here
mentioning that Series.Clarence and WesternAnimation.Clarence should have 1988 and 2014 respectively. I had no response if I can do that move myself or not.
I also made another request here
on Ask The Tropers where a page titled MediaNotes.Hot Ones Actors sounds like an accurate name.
openCharacter folder using another character's quote instead of the folder subject's own. Film
Over a year ago from now sapphyblue changed the character quote
at the beginning of Mark Hoffman's folder on Saw: Jigsaw and Accomplices (which I was a regular editor at back then).
The original quote was said by Hoffman himself:
For some reason, sapphyblue decided to choose a quote about him by another character instead:
I find this change pretty odd, because not only is it standard for character folders to have quotes said by the character themselves (unless they don't speak at all, at which I think it's acceptable to use a quote from another character describing them), in the current quote Hoffman is being described from the perspective of another character rather than his own, and as someone who knows the context of the films best, I think the original quote did a better job at summarizing Hoffman's own character and his moral conflict with John (that's the theme of both quotes).
I'd like to change the character folder quote back to what it originally was, with a link to this query to avoid making the change look like an Edit War; I was originally responsible for moving the original line from image caption to folder quote, but I didn't write it in the first place, and I don't think reverting a change from over a year ago can easily come off as edit warring (unless it's clear that one of the tropers is deliberately changing things back to their liking, as in a very slow-paced edit war). But what are your thoughts on this issue, and what would you suggest me to do if you don't think switching it back myself is the best option?
openCan you edit war with yourself?
I'd just like to make sure it's okay to, having deleted your own entry, re-enter it with slightly different wording? Sorry if this is a bit obvious; I'd just like to make absolutely sure. Thanks.
openMy formatting is messed up on Poker Face
With season 2 of Poker Face dropping, I'm trying to divvy up the show's character pages into the main characters, the villains and victims of each episode, and the various characters Charlie meets in each episode. However, while I have the main index boxes up on each sub page, they don't quite look right. I've never made boxes like that before, so I don't quite know what to do there.
EDIT: The reason why the rest of the info is still up on the main page is because I wanted the other two set up before I deleted it. I'm willing to edit in the fixes myself if that will be more helpful.
These are the respective pages.
Edited by JacobyInvestigativeopenCommented-out note problems
So I've just caught up on Raise Your Voice Against Liars and decided to give its tropes page a long-overdue clean-up. However, when I went in to edit it, I discovered this commented-out note at the top of the page that was apparently added by the authors, the contents of which are making me wary.
Before any more tropes are added here, we feel the need to address something:
Please remember that this AU takes place several months after Miracle Queen, and at the start of the fic, Marinette is still being bullied by Lila and has literally no one helping her besides Luka and Kagami. She's even attempted to commit suicide because of it! It’s what’s called a formative moment for Marinette’s mentality; of course she’s going to change and not be the ‘same Marinette from the show.’
Also, regarding Adrien: we understand he’s going through abuse too, and we agree that such is shitty behavior from Gabriel and Nathalie, but his actions are still his own, and there ARE consequences for them whether they be good or bad! He has barely helped Marinette with Lila, even though he can SEE that Lila is still hurting Marinette! Also, so far in the fic, the Phantom Thieves aren’t completely aware of Adrien’s situation at home. They only know as much as Marinette, Nino, and the other Parisians have told them. Obviously, due to this lack of knowledge, they will treat him in ways that some might consider being too harsh. When/if they actually come to understand what’s really going on in Adrien's home life, chances are they’ll change their tune a little, but right now, in THEIR minds, there’s not really a reason for them to do so. Please keep that in mind when you’re making your edits to this TV Tropes page.
The story itself has pointed out they both had full knowledge of his home life and were completely in the wrong for their continued harsh treatment of him. He deserved consequences for how he handled Lila, but he grew as a person and they knowingly left him in the care of a murderer. Please keep that in mind as well.
I'm well-aware that Adrien's already a controversial character in ML, and that said controversy bled into the fic's reception and then some; I haven't checked the edit history of the page, but I'm getting the distinct feeling there may have been an edit war or two about it. However, well-intentioned or not, this is still basically the author telling others how they have to edit the page, right?
Between that and how it's artificially inflating the page length, is it okay for me to remove this?
Edited by Storygirl000openTrouble with uploading video example
I'm trying to add a video example for Art Shift, but the video I try to upload is flipped to a vertical resolution for some reason. The video on my phone is not flipped and is horizontal, and getting the video and uploading it on my laptop instead didnt work. The video is still awaiting review, but I dont know why it is flipping itself. Is it because of the file type or something?
openPage quote citing a work's creator?
On Flow (2024), the page quote is sourced from an interview with the creator. The animation itself does not feature any dialogue. Is this suitable?
open Is there a trope for.... Videogame
Is there a trope for video games where developers seem to anticipate a player will try a certain strategy, and design the level to make that strategy more difficult to implement than it seems? Or if they design the level to punish a certain kind of play, even if it's just the player being careless and not anticipating the consequences of their actions? Kaizo Trap seems close, but it's specifically about victory or completion, I'm thinking more in the general course of gameplay. Batman Gambit works but is very broad as a trope, and it may or may not be Developer's Foresight depending on the exact example.
As two examples that would fit what I'm thinking of:
- In Hitman, the water tower on Colorado seems like the perfect spot to snipe targets from. But if you try it you'll find yourself trapped, as the AI will instantly surround the water tower and pin you down there with no hope for escape.
- In Dissidia Final Fantasy, the last level of an optional dungeon lets you challenge your Assist character to access two chests behind them. But if you do that, you'll have no Assist when fighting the boss Gabranth, and he has a very potent EX Mode build (Assists as a mechanic hard-counter EX Mode, but you just killed your Assist).
openIs this natter or word cruft?
Several weeks ago, I made an edit to our page for The Binding of Isaac regarding which parts of the game do and don't meet the qualifications to be considered a Brutal Bonus Level… it's not exactly straightforward in this case. Specifically, this edit right here
. (I wanted to ask about it sooner, but I couldn't for… reasons.) I went pretty in-depth on how Chapter 5 does count as a Brutal Bonus Level for the first 11 or 12 playthroughs, since you have to go out of your way to go there and the game normally ends before then, but once you've formally unlocked Chapter 5, you have to go there to reach most of the game's endings that are available at that point (unless you take one of a handful of later-unlocked routes that circumvent it), and the most "basic" endings available at that point happen at Chapter 5. (Contrast this with, say, Bullet Hell in Enter the Gungeon, which always qualifies for Brutal Bonus Level because, while you can end the game there, you always have the option of ending your run at the Forge right before it or going to your character's Past instead.) However, I have some reservations about the quality of my edit… I'm not sure whether or not I went off-track into Natter or Word Cruft territory by explaining the complicated situation as thoroughly as I did. I'll share what I said and request feedback.
- Brutal Bonus Level: All of the floors past the standard ending point in Chapter 5 count as this, retaining the full-heart damage of the Womb floors while mixing in tougher enemies and obstacles. These include the Chest, the Dark Room, the Void, the Corpse, and the Ascent (plus Home).
- Chapter 5 (Sheol
and Cathedral
) itself is a downplayed case, as it actually is a bonus level before the game has been beaten 11 times (i.e. beating Mom in Chapter 3 for the first time, then clearing Chapter 4 10 times). While beating the game 11 times is the formal criterion to unlock Chapter 5, it's possible to get there before meeting that requirement by using a level skip (such as We Need To Go Deeper!) or getting into the Devil or Angel Room of Womb II. However, once Chapter 5 has been properly unlocked and the Chapter 4 endings are exhausted, Sheol and Cathedral become the standard end-point for a run that doesn't end with the player character dying. The only ways to not enter Chapter 5 on a successful run after unlocking it are to bypass it entirely by warping directly to the Dark Room via a Sacrifice Room or to get into an endgame chapter before Chapter 5 (which means either entering a portal to the Void in the Depths, Womb, or Blue Womb or getting into an endgame that branches away from the main route before Chapter 5 (i.e. Corpse
or Ascent). However, Chapter 6 and the aforementioned Void, Corpse, and Ascent do count as Brutal Bonus Levels regardless of game progression, since they all have special criteria that must be met during a run in order to enter themnote the Chest and Dark Room require Isaac to have taken the correct item (the Polaroid or the Negative, respectively) after defeating Mom and then go to the Chapter 5 that matches that item (Cathedral or Sheol, respectively); the Void requires finding its portal after defeating an endboss, Corpse requires accessing and defeating Mom's Heart in Chapter 3.5 (usually but not necessarily with the Knife Pieces from Chapters 1.5 and 2.5), and Ascent requires taking the Polaroid, Negative, or Faded Polaroid to the Strange Door in Chapter 3 and then obtaining Dad's Note in the special Chapter 3.5 accessed in this way, and not meeting any of those criteria will result in the game ending at Chapter 5.
- Chapter 5 (Sheol
openRegarding Spoiler Policy for characters in Naruto Anime
Regarding Characters.Naruto, while checking for example, Pain's page, it shows in the description itself a lot about his past and motivations which are revealed quite late into the arc having his decisive fight, and in Madara's folder, in his description, the exact specifics of his defeat are written in great detail.
These are just two examples out of many, and in the folders, there are marked and unmarked spoilers with irregularity. Now, Naruto is an old anime, so I wanted to ask whether to remove the excruciating details in the description and spoiler out the spoilery details, or just leave them alone?
Edited by kuchiki222

There was an example on Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH that was removed a long time ago without an edit reason and I reinstated it:
The reason why it was removed may have been that it wasn't portrayed as Interspecies Romance in the story itself, and most likely the author wasn't even aware they were different species. Would it still be legitimate to put it here, or would it be better under Artistic License – Biology?