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openSelf-Pimping Webcomic
Very new account goliberalart
has only been making edits pertaining to the webcomic of the same name. Unsure if this is a problem, but it's certainly noticeable.
openTierInducedScrappy Edit War Videogame
A while ago, I added an entry to the YMMV page for Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn regarding Tier Induced Scrappy for a Crutch Character named Sothe.
Around March 4th troper Slimeshady adjusted the entry to be arguing with itself by making it talk about how he "used to be seen as one" and is now defending the character. I will put it under a note so it doesn't fill too much of this space out note Sothe used to be this. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). In more recent times though as Jagens are looked at much more favorably by the community, the receptions to Sothe has changed, as Sothe is so indispensable in Part 1 and the DB's Part 3 missions (i.e. the hardest parts of the game), and that by the time he loses his usefulness, it doesn't really matter when you have so many other overpowered units to pick up the slack. Tier lists covering the game as a whole will generally put Sothe in the top tier as he is just so good in Part 1, and without him the early Part 1 maps would be insanely difficult on Hard/Maniac, while when the other Crutch Characters join in later Part 1 he still stands out for his great movement, strong 1-2 range with forged Knives, and all the thieving duties he can do. That said there are still certainly some people who don't care about Sothe's Part 1 contributions and remain resentful of how irredeemably bad Sothe gets in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit.
I adjusted the entry to be back to how it was before, but I did adjust it a bit to include his usefulness in part 1 so point out where the issues people had with him gameplay wise were. As it was before, it was arguing with itself since the entry said he was a bad unit but not anymore despite nothing changing about the game. Again I have put this entry under a note to save space. note Sothe, primarily after Part 1. He's this game's equivalent to a Jagen, despite his decent growths, and has by far the worst third tier class (terrible stat caps including a measly 28 strength cap, and being restricted to knives, which are the weakest weapons in the game), and having a mastery skill that just leaves opponents at 1 HP with no additional effects while all other mastery skills do such egregiously high damage that they may as well outright kill. To make matters worse he has a forced promotion that doesn't occur until after you already completed the first Part 4 chapter, meaning he doesn't even get to be a third tier unit in one of his two pre-Endgame Part 4 maps, so you can't even raise him enough to be somewhat useful for some of Part 4 and he is going to be even farther behind when he does finally promote before you consider his awful caps. The biggest sticking point with players, though, is the fact Sothe is a forced unit throughout much of the game, and is mandatory to bring along into the endgame, where his class limitations make him nigh-useless; the last one is especially bothersome to fans of Volke, who is an objectively superior knife-wielder to Sothe (his base strength is greater than Sothe's maximum strength with comparable speed, while his mastery skill is a guaranteed death blow with the same activation rate), which means to bring Volke along into the endgame would mean having two knife-wielders among your limited units (while there's also only one SS knife in the game). As to make this worse, Sothe is the only character who doesn't benefit from the bonus stats from the previous game because unlike others who instead gain a flat bonus for any capped stats, Sothe, if data is transferred, instead gains whatever his stats were from the previous game which means its possible he'll be even worse since his max stats in the previous game are only marginally higher than his bases here. His use in Part 1 is good but due to how awkward Part 1 is, using him to even the odds is more of a long term detriment to your units since he can soak up precious experience.
As of 6/14, they readded their entry, added a section under Vindicated by History note Sothe's perception as a unit. With how unsalvagebly terrible he ends up in Part 4 while remaining a forced unit for the entire game that can't even die without triggering a Game Over until the Part 4 endgame, for a long time Sothe got a lot of hatred from fans for being an "EXP THIEF!" that "stole" EXP from the rest of the Dawn Brigade in Part 1, only to become The Load in Part 4 no matter how much investment he got. In Japan he was even a Memetic Loser for his insistence on being Micaiah's "protector" up to the end of the game, while becoming so ineffectual in combat and was more someone who needed the protection himself. However more and more players started realizing that the endgame and max level stats are only a microcosm of an entire game, and that a unit's contribution in the entire game before that very much matters, with it being especially a big plus if that unit can provide that contribution without requiring significant resources. So Sothe, being such a vital unit for Part 1 (especially the first half) and still a useful offensive unit in the Dawn Brigade's Part 3 chapters with his Beastkiller, became much more highly regarded and shot up to the high or even top tier of unit tier lists, and he also got big props for providing that big contribution in what are generally considered RD's hardest maps (while most of Part 4 is generally considered pretty easy, as you have the Game-Breaker Laguz Royals, a third tier near-invincible Ike, and a bunch of other trained up third tier units, so Sothe being bad at that point doesn't really matter). Sothe additionally gets sympathy from fans for his boss conversations with the likes of Ike, Dhegnisea, and Sephiran, where he acknowledges that he is a normal man amongst gods that really doesn't belong, but he'll still try to fight for Micaiah and the little things even if he is hopelessly outclassed. Sothe nowadays is often regarded as one of the best executed "Jagens" in the series, as he fulfills his role of really helping the player during Early Game Hell and other difficult maps, while actually falling off hard later in the game like Jagens are supposed to unlike many other Jagens who remain strong late into the game or are flatout Game Breakers up to the very end., and added this message as the reason: "Not using Sothe in Part 1 becaus he "steals EXP' is a pitfall that makes Part 1 harder than it actually is, use him.".
This is a matter of debate yes and I should have clarified why I adjusted it previously, that was my fault. However this is becoming an argument at this point. I will message this about this but the entries are written in such a way that they come across as very defensive about this unit and its becoming an edit war at this point.
openDo crossdressers count for LGBT Fanbase?
I was originally just going to ask in Is This An Example?, but the more I thought about it the more complicated it seemed, possibly too complicated for the relatively simple answers in Is This An Example?. I was just clicking the button for Random Media and wiki walking, when I came across the YMMV page of Blend-S and saw this and now I have several questions.
- LGBT Fanbase: Hideri is well-liked by several fans who were also crossdressing enthusiasts.
Is Hideri a crossdresser or trans? I've never seen Blend-S, so I don't know myself.
If Hideri is just a crossdresser, would crossdressing enthusiasts count for LGBT Fanbase?
If Hideri is a crossdresser but has a significant number of trans fans, shouldn't the entry be reworded to about trans fans?
The entry just seems to me like it's trying to conflate crossdressing enthusiasts and trans people, but I don't know for sure.
Edited by pikachu17openInconsistencies on two different Useful Notes pages
I noticed that two Useful Notes pages contradict each other. UsefulNotes.Fascism claims that The Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement:
Ku Klux Klan might have the distinction of being the first fascist movement. Born out of a reaction against the Reconstruction after The American Civil War, it aimed at recreating the old order of the South by putting the freed slaves and the carpetbaggers in their place (which should be understood as lynching and intimidation).
The importance of religion in shaping the American view of self also meant that Christianity (understood as Protestantism) played a much larger role within the Ku Klux Klan; they combine the religious views of falangism (but pro-Protestant instead of pro-Catholic) with the racial views of national socialism.
But UsefulNotes.Ku Klux Klan specifically denies this idea and argues against it:
What should we do about this discrepancy? Considering Wikipedia takes the position that the Klan was not fascist (the white-robed bastards are conspicuously absent from their fascism template), I think we should replace the bit about them with a discussion of the Silver Legion of America
.
open Weird Awesome entries Live Action TV
On Victorious there's this weird entries that seems to argue with over if an example counts self. Here they are:
- Tori and friends taking revenge on Manipulative Bastard Ryder in "Begging On Your Knees", along with his ex-girlfriends. Seeing such a Smug Snake of a villain given a well deserved Humiliation Conga, priceless!
- Tori does it again in "Prom Wrecker", By crowning Jade as the prom queen and Doug the Diaper Guy as prom king, as a "discreet" revenge for Jade almost ruining Tori's hard-worked Prom. And to top it all off, a song by Tori, Cat and Andre to close the deal!
- This one is a little less awesome when you consider that Tori ruined Jade's exhibition by taking over the space it would have occupied (which Jade had booked first), blatantly refused to cancel it, and never once apologized for screwing up the show that Jade had presumably been putting together for several weeks. Sure, Jade might have crossed a line with her retaliation, but Tori wasn't exactly in the right either.
- Some see that as an over-riding Humiliation Conga for Jade, especially for her slap-on-the-wrist punishment for nearly killing Tori and Robbie in Tori Gets Stuck, but overall that episode had an awkward feel as there seemed to be an easy compromise to the scheduling conflict that was ignored simply for Rule of Funny.
- A smaller one but when Beck puts Jade in a time out for being mean to Tori (which she actually does).
Is this allowed?
openNot a Clueless Aesop? Western Animation
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"
- Clueless Aesop: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically asks Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a Double Aesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
This seems more like a Broken Aesop, since Clueless Aesop is when a show fumbles in teaching harsh subject matter. Pretty sure "listen to your friends" isn't controversial. It also just seems like it's arguing with itself with the Double Aesop paragraph.
Also posted this here
, but got no response.
openHow many wicks does a page need before it gets removed from PagesNeedingWicks?
So, I have been crosswicking under-used tropes so they can be remved from Pages Needing Wicks and I have wondered how many wicks does page need to not end up on the list. In the past, 16 wicks was what the page said was the cutoff point but that part has since been removed. I personally like remove tropes when they reach the 20-30 wick mark.
EDIT: Wait, According to the page itself, anything that is within the standard ranking (24-56 for tropes older than 3 years old and 12-14 for new tropes) on wick needs to be removed. So I guess that is the answer..
Edited by MacronNotesopen"Common Knowledge" issue?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 5 E 26 The Cutie Remark Part 2
- Common Knowledge: Many of Starlight's detractors criticize her Freudian Excuse, and also compare her to Apple Bloom and Moondancer in terms of cutie marks and losing friends and how they didn't resort to villainy in their situation. What they forget when comparing Starlight to these two is that Starlight hated cutie marks and believed they created differences among ponies, thus driving them apart because they don't have connection, and she believed to have lost Sunburst as a friend as a result of differences created between them. Given that she was a filly at the time, was confirmed to have isolated herself from other ponies out of fear that cutie marks would break new friendships made, it was clear her villainy rose from wallowing in victim-hood and self-pity over her situation which resulted in her blaming cutie marks as the result of friendships that fail in general. Both Apple Bloom and Moondancer are quite different from Starlight, as Apple Bloom wanted her cutie mark badly and Moondancer thought that friendship wasn't for her, and they both didn't become evil because they didn't wallow like Starlight did.
This was deleted as "Misuse and another attempt to complain about Starlight's detractors". I assume the misuse is due to this trope applying to audiences missing things to the point of making factually incorrect factually incorrect beliefs/claims about the work, which this isn't. But there some issues with the comparisons I was thinking about for awhile:
- Moondancer was Twilight's age, young adult, so could be expect to handle it better than Starlight who was a child at the time.
- Apple Bloom was lucky enough to stumble across new friends before Starlight's issues could set in. "On Your Marks" shows AB begin to descend into such when she thinks she's loosing her friends due to their cutie marks ("Oh, hello girls."). Starlight outright says "Not everypony's lucky enough to get her cutie mark at the same time as her friends!" The reason Starlight was supposed to be deserving of forgiveness/redemtion is because the only difference between her and Twilight was Twilight was lucky enough to have a destiny that gave her friends.
I fault the episode for failing to portray or emphasize those points, and agree with cutting shoehorned/misused tropes for such. But I want to be sure we're not quashing legitimate points counterarguments (there's a reason Starlight's a Base-Breaking Character not The Scrappy, which was brought to cleanup) if there's an appropriate trope/place for them. And I was planning on adding some criticism of complaints (which fall under factually incorrect) under Common Knowledge, I want to double-check what the line is for this trope since it came up.
My questions are:
- Do the points brought up fit Common Knowledge and if not why are they objective misuse (only pertain to factual error?). Are the point's I raised objective enough?
- What other tropes or place might those things fall under?
openEgregious Unintentionally Sympathetic example? Western Animation
- Applejack in "Hearthbreakers". The whole episode is supposed to be about her learning that she was being too closed minded about Pinkie's family and their Hearth Warming traditions, to the point where even her own family worn her that she shouldn't be interfering. However this glosses over the fact that the Pie family can easily be accused of the exact same thing, seeming to expect the Apples to follow their traditions without question and never allowing an alternative point of view. In fact, Applejack was the only one who did try and embrace the other's way, forcing herself to eat their rock soup when the rest of her family only complained.
This reads like a disguised Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry. It dosen't even tell us how Applejack ends up being sympathetic, just that everyone else around her isn't.
openScreamer Trailer description issue?
I read through the trope description, and...it's not the best in my opinion. It's self-demonstrating, of course, but it keeps giving me that early website trope description vibe which I'm not a big fan of. What do y'all think about it?
openDoes Dummied Out apply here? Videogame
This example of Dummied Out is on the page for Animal Crossing: New Horizons:
- Dummied Out:
- Data for the Sanrio villagers exists in New Horizons, but the villagers aren't currently used, possibly being intended to be added to the game in future updates. The other Welcome amiibo-introduced villagers, however, have no data for them whatsoever.
- Museum room IDs exist
for a cafe (presumably the Roost) and a Gyroid exhibit. ID data also exists for a two-room art exhibit, but this was eventually implemented into the game itself via the Nature Day update, implying that the cafe and Gyroid exhibit will be made accessible to players somewhere down the road.
- Another dataminer
found even more info about dummied content. There's an unused shopping menu for the Museum (presumably the shop that was previously seen in New Leaf), as well as "Real Estate" and "Gallery" shops of unknown purpose. Data relating to diving and deep-sea creatures (from New Leaf) that may also tie into a third unused "Seafood" section of the Critterpedianote The manila clam is the only entity in this category which was implemented in the game at launch, vegetables that can be harvested, and recipes for cooked dishes and clothing were also found among the game's files. Finally, there's also data for a third Nook's Cranny upgrade.
- The same miner also found Leif's garden shop, the return of bushes and artwork, and Redd's Treasure Trawler before their proper release in the Nature Day update. The "private beach" where Redd docks is referred to as "Nつねきち" ("NTsunekichi") in the game's files, with Tsunekichi being Redd's Japanese name.
The problem is, New Horizons is a game that's being continuously updated with new content. As stated in the example, some of the items that were listed as Dummied Out have already been added to the game through content updates, and it's likely that more of them will be in the future. Since Dummied Out appears to deal specifically with content that was cut from a game, should examples be listed if there's still a reasonable chance that they could be added to the game?
openReally long example
From YMMV/Arknights:
Applicability: (more accurate transcription in replies)
This is so long I wouldn't even know how to BEGIN to trim it dowm (doesn't help I haven't played the game itself). Does anyone have any suggestions- or is it OK as is? Edited by DefiantKitsune
openWork in the wrong namespace Anime
Le Portrait de Petite Cossette is under Manga/, yet the article itself (and every other source) says it is an original OVA and the manga came later. Can I move the page to Anime/ and turn Manga/ into a redirect?
openCorrect thing to do, V2
Sorry for any confusion for the people so saw the first version of this, realizing a few things about the situation made me need to repost it with a less accusatory tone.
Now I noticed earlier that Grotadmorv removed the ZCE markup and tag on Toon Town Online. My original post was wrong in thinking they did this randomly; they actually did add context to a lot of the examples (as pointed out to me by Rally Bot). So that's fine, though hopefully the fact that I pinged them to the ZCE thread first won't create too much of a headache for them. I was thrown off by the deletion of the tag itself and that colored my perception of the rest of their edits.
However, my real question and the source of my earlier stress remains: What's the correct course of action when you notice months late that an issue had occurred? Lets' say I was right the first time and they didn't add any new context- I noticed their edit months afterward, long past the point of being able to request a mod revert. In this case that's not necessary anyway, but in other cases (say the case of Darkness Falls and the troper who kept reverting our work on that one), what's to be done if the revisions weren't noticed until a long time after the fact?
It feels petty to report people for things that happened months ago, even if usually I'd report them immediately had I noticed in a timely manner. But the amount of time in between it happening and it being noticed...makes it harder for me to know how to respond. Is it still edit warring in that case to fix it? Is there still a point in reporting the troper? Is it best to just ask for other tropers to help and move on? What's to be done when problems aren't noticed early enough to act on them?
Since that was my real question and the Grotad thing was just a catalyst to my asking it, that's why I decided to just recreate the query rather than stick with the misinformed earlier version.
openShout-out memes: valid MemeticMutation entries or not?
Recently, two Memetic Mutation entries for My Next Life As A Villainess All Routes Lead To Doom were removed with the edit reason "I don't think those really qualify since they are memes from other works, not ones caused by this.". The removed memes are basically story-appropriate twists on famous quotes from The Dark Knight and Untitled Goose Game.
Since references to other works found in the work itself have always had their place on the wiki, it feels a little strange to see things being removed on the basis that they are basically the fandom doing the same thing. I thought it might be a good idea to see what others think.
Edited by NazetrimeopenNo Title
So since Examples Aren't General, should everything under the "General" folder on ContemptibleCover.Literature be allowed there:
- Twilight's popularity (and its habitual referencing of literary classics) has led to a series of "Twilight-ized" covers of the books mentioned in the series — including Wuthering Heights
, Pride and Prejudice
◊, and Romeo and Juliet
◊. Yes, now you too can be reminded of trashy vampire romance while reading Shakespeare. And that sticker on the Wuthering Heights cover? Yes, that does in fact read, "Bella and Edward's favorite book!"
- Jane Eyre
and again
- Wuthering Heights
◊ again.
- Jane Eyre
- Twilight's popularity (and its habitual referencing of literary classics) has led to a series of "Twilight-ized" covers of the books mentioned in the series — including Wuthering Heights
- A lot of Pulp Magazines, naturally. For instance, the issue of Planet Stories that introduced Eric John Stark has Queen Berild riding a steed that resembles a giant purple googly-eyed seahorse, although she actually wears more clothing than she does in the text.
- Although a few specific series are mentioned here, it's safe to assume that EVERY Urban Fantasy or Paranormal Romance book will have a hideously embarrassing cover. Because they all do.
- Averted to an extreme by many Canadian publishers who not only manage to (usually) avoid putting any objectionable cover onto their books, but due perhaps to a desire (or a requirement) to double up on promoting Canadian culture, it's very common to find works of Canadian art gracing the cover of CanLit books that rarely correspond to the subject matter of the book. For example, a novel about urban life might have a painting of a prairie countryside on the cover. In other words, if you're a CanLit author, you can't always rely on the covers to sell your books.
- Not even self-published works are completely immune to this. Smashwords maintains a helpful list of cover designers for the aspiring writer, many of whom offer... drumroll please... "premade covers". They're cheaper than having one designed to order, but are inevitably the blandest and most generic combination of Photoshopped-together stock images imaginable. They're probably slightly better than nothing, but if you've ever wondered why a lot of ebooks seem to have such bland and forgettable covers, now you know.
- This site
is completely devoted to showcasing the most contemptible cover art on the planet.
openMinecraft YMMV Videogame
A big majority of the YMMV subpages for Minecraft such as Awesome, Funny, and Heartwarming, are mainly just stories about things other players did and put online and have nothing to actually do with the game itself. Is that allowed?
openAbout Fan Works Web Original
What's the stance on indexing Fan Works examples by work on the main page (instead of a sub-page)? For example, this example from a TLP:
Fan Works Batman
- Angel of the Bat: As in canon, Dick Grayson/Nightwing is of Roma descent. He considers himself a Christian, but mentions traveling with the circus never permitted him much time to study his faith. His first scene also shows him to be a trickster, playing off the stereotypes of Roma being superstitious to grill an enemy which ironically is a Double Subversion, considering Roma are also stereotypically connected to deceit.

On the 11th, The Lord Yoiketh Away added Tastes Like Diabetes to The Mandalorian in reference to The Child. It was removed on the 17th. Today, they added this: