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Ask the Tropers:
openSeemingly non-existent fanfic
I recently found the page for Dance Of Destiny, it claims to be a Pokémon fanfiction released on FanFiction.Net. The page doesn't link to the fic so I went to try and find it myself but I looked all over Fanfiction.net and I can't find the fanfic anywhere. Unless I am somehow missing something it seems that this fanfic doesn't exist. I don't know if it maybe was removed or it never existed, to begin with but I can't find it.
So what should be done then?
openDrama Importation?
On YMMV.Genshin Impact, GRD added this questionable Fandom Rivalry entry (see here
).
- A weird one, but this also applies within subsections of the Genshin fanbase itself. As there is a strong distaste between Reddit Genshin and Twitter Genshin; forming distinct blocs due to how large the fanbase is. With the reddit base of Genshin accusing the twitter base of being the source of the majority of the toxicity and controversies as well as ruining the fandom's reputation. Expect plenty of Genshin redditors chastising twitter users for any controversy that gets brought up, whilst twitter Genshin accusing their reddit counterparts as just being as equally toxic in its own ways. To a lesser extent, the Youtube fanbase of Genshin sometimes gets flack from both sides due to clickbait issues. Whereas the fanbase powerbloc in Facebook and Hoyolab are considered to be far more chill in contrast. The fanbase is not considered 'broken' like that of Star Wars since there is still a unified passion across the board on the game and there isn't any severe breach of conduct to ignite a civil war. But there is a distinct cultural rivalry between the websites formulating into something akin to a fandom Cold War.
Reading this, it sounds to me like importation of fandom drama onto TV Tropes, and even though my experience with the Genshin fandom is short-lived, they are prone to drama spats every now and again. What do you think?
openProblems on Music/FallingInReverse Music
A number of examples on the page appear to be troping the frontman himself rather than either his work or performances or describing the real life history of the band using narrative tropes. Can I just remove them and rewrite the salvageable ones or is this big enough to take to a cleanup thread?
- The Atoner: Ronnie after making up with Craig in 2013 and becoming a father, seems to really want to ditch the past "Radical Ronnie" bravado he put on. He also seems incredibly regretful about the time he cheated on his girlfriend, especially as it caused him to see his daughter less. (this one's also a morality trope)
- Even the Guys Want Him: Ronnie.
(fanservice trope applied to a real person, Weblinks Are Not Examples and it's a matter of opinion)
- Jerkass: Ronnie Radke, if this video
is anything to go by. Several other people, including fans themselves, have even called him out on this. The incident where he threw a mic stand into the crowd at a show at Six Flags Great Adventure and managed to both send several people to the hospital and get heavier acts permanently banned from being booked at the park did not help matters.
- His choice of lyrical content is all you need to know Ronnie is a bit of a jerk, with lines like "They'll call me king of the music scene" (morality trope being applied to a real person and the second is both subjective and possibly complainy)
- Large Ham: Ronnie. (also zero context; could be rewritten to describe actual performances by someone who knows more about such things than I do)
- Long-Haired Pretty Boy: All of them, but especially Ronnie for most fangirls.
- Mr. Fanservice: Especially Ronnie and Jacky. (these two have the same problems as Even the Guys Want Him and are also zero context)
- Parental Abandonment: Ronnie's mom left him and his brother when they were young.
- He finally met her again in November 2013. (this is just straight up real life; it could be rewritten to describe songs that talk about his mother rather than the literal events)
- Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll: The focus of many of their songs, since they were apparently written by Ronnie while he was in jail and going through rehab. However, he is currently very much sober, and as much can be assumed for the other band members.
- Actually a requirement on tour. Ronnie is Straight Edge now, and doesn't trust himself around substances to the point of declaring them off limits on the bus. I See Stars were thrown off tour in 2012 when their keyboard player was arrested for weed possession. (everything past it being the subject of songs is real life)
- Start My Own: How the band was formed. Ronnie was mad at his former bandmates and swore to become bigger than they were. (For the record, they're about equal ever since.)
- Also why Max left. He'd been attempting to make a band of his own since being thrown out of ETF, and finally they debuted in 2016 as Violent New Breed.
- Jacky started a solo shred/instrumental rock project and eventually left to focus on it.
open Disagreement on Marx page.
First of all, I understand that this topic might be sensitive to some people here, but I hope that we can maintain a sense of objectivity and base our conclusions on the facts.
Marxist economics is not considered scientifically credible by the economics establishment. It has zero or near zero presence in economics textbooks, and it has zero or near zero presence in economics university courses. To my knowledge, there is nowhere in the world where Marxism is included as a component of economics education. Maybe Cuba or North Korea or somewhere like that. This is something that, in my experience, Marxists completely concede and acknowledge. They concede and acknowledge it to try and demonstrate that modern economics is hopelessly corrupt, but they concede and acknowledge it nonetheless.
The Karl Marx page had a line noting that "As an economist, Marx remains heterodox, and nearly all modern economic institutions reject his work as scientifically incorrect. Nevertheless, Marxist economics retains a significant following and continues to be used as the foundation of socialist economic ideology." I believe this is incredibly important and relevant information. I think one of the most pertinent questions a layman would have about a field of study is "Is this considered credible and effective by the experts?"
05tele changed the line to "As an economist, Marx remains heterodox, and many modern economic institutions reject his work as scientifically incorrect." I sent him a message explaining that this edit was inappropriate. I explained that Marxist economics is overwhelmingly rejected by the scientific establishment, and the article needs to reflect that.
He replied with the rebuttal that different schools of economic thought exist. I replied and conceded that yes, different schools of thought exist, but that is insufficient. I told him that it's not enough for schools to exist and for some people to believe in them, but he needs to demonstrate that they are considered credible on a significant scale. I asked if he could demonstrate this.
Rather than providing me with any indication whatsoever that Marxism was indeed considered credible, he replied to me, rather rudely, "I am not responsible for your ignorance of economics. I suggest you remedy it."
I stress again, that the issue here should not be whether Marxism is right or wrong, but whether it's accepted as credible by current institutions. This is something 05tele himself seems to implicitly concede, given that he hasn't touched a later paragraph in the same article expanding on the point. I'd like to revert this edit.
I feel I might also note that 05tele failed to include an edit reason on his initial edit. So, essentially, he's made an edit with no justification, and when asked for some, responded by saying "I'm not responsible for you being ignorant."
Edited by HingabeSiebenopen Word Cruft notifier
Okay, this is a bit of a weird situation, and I just wanted to send it out here to get the lay of the land and see what people think. I'm gonna admit up front that I might be in the wrong here, but I just want to be sure.
Yesterday, I made an edit to Characters.Better Call Saul Howard Hamlin. It was an edit to a Foil entry for him and Hank Schrader (which I admit in hindsight should probably actually be under Contrasting Sequel Main Character, but that's another issue). I wrote this:
- Their deaths are later used as part of a deception for Jimmy and Walt to help their loved ones; Walt claims responsibility for Hank's murder on the phone in order to confirm it to the authorities and play himself up as a monster for Skyler's benefit, while Jimmy lies about Kim's role in Howard's death in order to spare her prison time and take all the blame for himself.
Yesterday, Random Troper 123 removed the "in order"
that I bolded in the entry citing Word Cruft - and sure, I guess the entry still makes grammatical sense without it even if I think it added to the grammar of the sentence and don't think it was worth deleting, so nothing wrong there - but then they went the extra mile and sent me a Word Cruft notifier about it. I might be overreacting myself taking it here, but that seems like a bit of an overreaction, and looking through their recent history, they seem to be on a bit of a Word Cruft binge today (among other things that seem perfectly legitimate) and making some edits that seem unnecessary:
- Changing "quite a few" to "several"
- Removing the word "also" from the sentence "There's also grenadiers"
.
- Turning the sentence "breaking heads in" into just "breaking heads"
- Changing "pretty much" to "well-nigh"
and "That said" to "Still", even though it didn't change the meaning of the sentence.
- Trimming an entry
by removing the word "that" in the phrase "She claims that", changing "tend to" to "often", "such as" to "like", removing the qualifier "a bit", and changing "the girl" to "someone".
Like, maybe I'm reading too much into things, and if I am, please don't hesitate to tell me, but there's worrying about word cruft and then there's taking the time to change two words to one seemingly just because. It just seems a bit unnecessary, plus a look at ATT shows that this has come up before
, and if I'm getting a notifier over this, then other editors probably are too, so I want to see what people think.
open Most Edited Playing With Page?
Apologies in advance if this seems like a waste of time. It's just a personal challenge, something that wouldn't change the grand scheme of things. Basically, making The Idiot From Osaka as the most edited Playing With page possible.
I've seen Karma Houdini as the most edited Playing With page, with 176 edits counting myself. The edits tell me it's the most edited while my gut doesn't. Is there a way I can find the most edited Playing With page?
openTroper with overly defensive attitude
First a brief background. About a month ago, I once again hunt down This Troper using Google-Fu to track them down among wilderness that's moment pages (good news, I think they're gone from Nightmare Fuel/ and Tearjerker/). I sometime leave "Kill This Troper" as edit reason (as in terminate the usage of the term, in silar fashion to "kill a process") when remove it. A strong word, but I'm certain that it isn't rude (especially when removing this troper).
Today, I got rudeness notifier from Tropers/littlemisstfp2 regarding such edit
(a pure self-insert that has nothing to does with the entry) on NightmareFuel.Transformers Cyberverse. As noted, I don't think it's rude and replied as such. But digging a little more on the page's history reaveal two things.
- they were the one who added it
, and this is as recent as the last year's December (in contrast to most cases I found, which are usually years old).
- This edit
on Awesome.Transformers Cyberverse remove spoiler tag from page quote, which is a good thing, but their edit reason "Here to fix this before Wafer responds with more insults. Heheheheh" suggest a history with another troper.
Maybe I'm bias and reading too much into it (their edits are fine otherwise as far as I saw). And maybe the cultural difference make me misjudge the significant of the word "kill" (in that case, please say so). But I think they're acting too defensive.
Edited by KuruniopenEdit War on Characters / Genshin Impact Sumeru
Courtesy link here
.
- July 28: Phi Sat added
Nahida's profile and provided most of her examples.
- July 29: cureconquestgirl commented out
some of Nahida's examples with this edit reason: "please don't trope information that hasn't been officially confirmed in game yet".
- August 11: PhiSat uncommented
the same examples with this edit reason: "Since the Sumeru Promotional Trailer's video description says Nahida is the narrator and her voice is the same voice heard in the Summer Fantasia Event, it's safe to say Nahida = Kusanali is confirmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZEpU-DbzZU
".
Even if PhiSat is sorta correct about their assumption of Nahida being Kusanali, Sumeru hasn't even been released yet so we're still not 100% sure if that's the case. Even then, this is still an Edit War since PhiSat contributed and then uncommented Nahida's examples.
EDIT: I just want to clarify that I watched the trailer itself and found nothing that currently connects Nahida to Kusanali, so it seems PhiSat is trying to push a Speculative Troping agenda.
Edited by CytoZytokineopenHow to approach adressing a problematic aspect of this work(Little Witch Nobeta) Videogame
Considering addressing the Little devs offical Twitter provocative posts but not sure how to approach it given the account contains explicit posts over the protagonist and bosses.
Mainly because it's worth discussing since the game it's self is rather tame, outisde a few questionable outifts, and takes its self seriously but the offical twitter accounts post brazenly erotic and suggestive posts from time to time enough that it's rather noticeably jarring to compare the two.
Note this is an issue mainly because of this site's stance on "pedobait"
Though on a more minor not sure what tag to use for a "sexual advertisement tame work" kind of thing.
open What "counts" as an Alternate Self?
Given how the use of The Multiverse has becoming increasingly popular in fiction, especially in how it retcons previously unrelated adaptions to exist as alternate universes to each other, I think the main Alternate Self page needs to be edited to include the situations that "count" as this trope. This is because in the past I've had debates with people about the use of the trope, and those same people tend to only delete the trope from certain pages and then leave it alone in other pages. As a result this makes the use of the trope wildly inconsistent and only causes more confusion.
For example, recently someone deleted the Alternate Self trope from Spider-Man: Spider-Verse character pages that included links to the other Spider-Man/Marvel media that were shown to exist in Across the Spider-Verse on the grounds that characters simply appearing in those adaptions doesn't count. However that same person, even though I pointed out the hypocrisy, hasn't made any attempt to delete the use of Alternate Self in the MCU, SSU, Raimi and Webb films which are connected to the Spider-Verse films. This is what I mean by how the there isn't a clear consensus on how to use the trope, and as a result even if it's decided by a bunch of people what examples do count everyone else has no way of knowing that and will make the same mistakes.
Based on what the people deleting the trope have said, Alternate Self only "counts" when the AU characters appear in the same piece of media. So for example when MCU Spidey met Raimi and Webb Spidey, or with an Alternate Reality Episode. If that's true, then I think that should be made clear in the main Alternate Self page to avoid further confusion and misuse of the trope.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with using Alternate Self when a character appears in adaptions that have been confirmed to coexist as part of The Multiverse. The way I see it, it's no different when two previously unrelated pieces of fiction are confirmed to exist in the same Shared Universe, which can lead to tropes like Identical Stranger or Celebrity Paradox.
Edited by DarthDavros75openhow much natter is allowed on headscratchers? Videogame
Parts of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom is reading like a micro-forum as people add replies.
See the entire folder below I pulled from the page (reminder: contains unmarked spoilers):
- Perhaps she doesn't want to be coronated until Hyrule is at least restored to a basically functional kingdom again? Alternatively, she may be awaiting some ceremonial age of majority (as she is still biologically a teenager) or there may even be some kind of ancient dynastic tradition requiring her to complete some ritual, quest, or even just getting married before assuming formal queenship.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- Neither Link nor Zelda have gotten noticeably older or taller in the interim, compared to the adult Hylians we meet they're still significantly shorter. However much time has passed between games, it seems very unlikely to have to have been the real life six years.
- Indeed, probably not six years. But Zelda was seventeen before she went into stasis with Ganon. Given Hylians grow and age like humans, she wouldn't likely get any taller (most girls have reached their max height by sixteen). Link might as men can grow for a few more years, but chances are they are both just shorter than average Hylians.
- It seems rather unlikely that both Link and Zelda would have remained exactly the same physically if significant amounts of time had passed. Further, Riju is at an age where she ought to be growing significantly were much time to have passed, and yet, hairstyle aside, she doesn't appear to have changed much. I can see little reason to assume that anything more than a handful of months have passed between the games.
- Hudson and Rhondson (who are introduced to each other by Link during Breath of the Wild) have a daughter that's old enough to read and write (and has the usual "young child" model for the Gerudo), it's undeniably that at least around 5 years have passed, any character that didn't change was just due to the designers not wanting to redesign them. As for the original Headscratchers, Zelda probably doesn't want to get crowned before she's helped the kingdom recover in a more hands on way, or something like that.
- For another bit of proof that Link is older and simply short, he's now able to order the Noble Pursuit drink from the Gerudo that he was regarded as too young for in Breath of the Wild.
- The Noble Pursuit Link can order is specifically stated to be a new recipe that all ages can enjoy; the creator even comments that normally Link would still be too young to drink the old version.
- Which just raises questions about what is it about that drink that requires such a high age. Especially when to my knowledge it is never even said to be alcoholic. Regarding Riju, she did get taller. She was about half a head shorter than Link in the previous game, but now from what I can tell is slightly taller than him.
- It probably is alcoholic, but they wouldn't be able to say as such explicitly without raising the age rating and so just had to imply it.
- As the original question noted, she's probably not biologically a teenager as years are implied to have passed since the first game, however, it is noted at the start of the game that Hyrule Castle has fallen even further into a state of disrepair. Further, Zelda and Link have been living in a simple home together since the Calamity. Perhaps until the castle is restored Zelda can't officially become queen, or she simply sees other matters as more important for now. The nation was able to hold itself together with just its regional leaders for a hundred years, so presumably there is no hurry to crown a new king or queen.
- It could be simply that a royal title doesn't have much priority for Zelda. Given how humble she is, she's probably more concerned with her reasearch, her personal life and helping out everyone, wherever she can. Given how harsh her life was as a princess prior to the calamity, she may even prefer the lifestyle as a commoner, rather than going back to being royalty.
- The above explanation is supported by the fact that Zelda has been living in Link's house in Hateno Village, while in Hyrule Castle there are no signs of her having moved back there.
- It's questionable whether the kingdom of Hyrule even exists anymore. The kingdom was destroyed over a 100 years ago, and ever since then various regions and towns of Hyrule have been self-governing units that work just fine without a higher king/queen above their regional leader. The majority of Hyrulians don't even have any memory of a unified rule, since only among the Zora is there a large number of people who were alive before the Calamity. Considering all this, maybe Zelda doesn't even want to try and restore the kingdom? What right does he have to force her rule on people who have been living without such rule for generations? The reason why everyone still calls her Princess Zelda might be out of tradition, or out of respect for her part in ending the Calamity, not because they still consider her to be their future ruler.
While I understand the game is still new and everyone including me wants to talk about it, but it feels like questions are getting derailed just because parts of the game were missed (which is reasonable given how big the game is) or just segueing into a different discussion entirely.
The original question is just over Zelda's title as princess but it's derailed into a discussion about the time gap between Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild and other parts of the game with not too much relevance beyond "Zelda should be old enough to be queen".
Is this just normal Headscratchers discussion?
Should I delete the parts that are derailing from the original question? Or should I just move the discussion into a separate folder entirely since I think discussing the game's Time Skip does have some merit.
EDIT: last-minute edit of spoilers, I haven't used this site for a while (specifically ATT) and thought my post would be cut off a little when I posted.
Edited by INeveropen Permission to technically restore a YMMV entry
On Jun 7th, 2020
, Tropers/Ferot_Dreadnaught cut the following entry from Transformers: The Last Knight due to Crazy Awesome no longer being considered a trope but instead a disambiguation page.
- Crazy Awesome: People have liked Cogman for how manic and impulsive he can be. For example, his reaction to Cade and Viviane being flirtatious is to set up a dinner date. But since there's no supplies on-hand for food or to cook it, his reaction is to fire himself out of the torpedo chamber, catch two tuna by the tails and drag them flopping and thrashing back to make sushi.
As such, I request permission to restore the entry but under the Crazy Is Cool trope.
- Crazy Is Cool: Cogman became an Ensemble Dark Horse for viewers due to how manic and impulsive he can be, making him an entertaining little psycho that many viewers wished they could see more of. Standout examples being his partaking in a high-speed car chase where he lets road rage overtake him, or firing himself out a torpedo chamber just to get fish to make sushi with for Cade and Viviane's dinner date, even proceeding to beat the fish to death when he comes back with two live ones.
openEdit War?
So on Scream VI Repo added
this Ass Pull entry:
- Mindy's survival becomes one in hindsight - after being stabbed by Ghostface and left for dead, Ethan comes in and saves her life. Only one problem - Ethan is one of the Ghostface killers himself and specifically wants to kill Mindy, yet saves her life anyways for no explicable reason.
Which later had this added to it
by a seperate troper.
- Although some believe that was merely a coordinated plan to take Mindy's suspicion off of him, and less a serious attempt on her life. Mindy does seem to take back her accusation when he saves her - although when she shows up again at the end of the film, she still has him pegged as one of the killers.
Repo later changed
it to this:
- Although some believe that was merely a coordinated plan to take Mindy's suspicion off of him, and less a serious attempt on her life. Mindy does seem to take back her accusation when he saves her - although it comes with two caveats: (1) Ethan disappears from the movie until his inevitable reveal, minimizing the motivation to obscure his identity as he'll next be seen revealing it, and (2) Mindy ultimately still shows up again at the end of the film having Ethan completely pegged as one of the killers.
However then the whole thing was cut
by Hfxjfrvnn citing "Justifying edit".
Repo then added
this new and nearly identical entry without saying why is the edit reason or discussing it anywhere from what I can tell:
- Mindy's survival serves as this for a sizable chunk of the audience as well - specifically because Ethan, a killer who wants her dead, saves her for no apparent reason other than to lower audience suspicion of him. While it's theoretically possible that Ethan is using this to establish some sort of alibi to throw the other characters off, the motivation behind it seems unclear when he vanishes from the rest of the movie and isn't seen again until his reveal, eliminating any benefit to lowering their suspicions.
I don't know if this counts or not but I have slightly bigger conern. Is this now an edit war? I'm unsure.
Edited by Bullmanopen Etiquette on deleting contentious/false moments examples Web Original
Got something that has been bothering me for a few weeks and rather than go the edit route I thought I would get a proper consensus first before taking any action.
Over on the H.Bomberguy heartwarming page there is an example for his RWBY criticism video with two subpoints and one third point. Most of the second and the third dot points are potshots at the show or it's company disguised as compliments to HB and could easily be cut out without much controversy. It's the main entry that I have an issue with.
To summarize, in his video on RWBY HB portrays himself as having been a life-long fan of Monty Oum (RWBY's creator who was long deceased at the time of the video), and the heartwarming entry on his page is talking about how much respect HB has for Monty as a creator and a person. The problem is that this is a lie; whilst Monty was alive HB made a lot of outright venomous statements on Monty and his skills that contradict his claims about how he was always in awe of Monty's work and considered him a personal hero. This makes HB contentious in the RWBY fandom since a lot of people see him as pretending to respect Monty (or at the most generous obscure his previous hatedom which he's since backed down on) to make his criticism seem unbiased rather than someone who went into the show as someone who thought its creator lacked talent and thought it looked average at best. It touches on a sore spot in that community of haters of the show using Monty's name as a way to bash the show/it's remaining creators.
So to circle back to the entry, it's repeating the claim that HB respected Monty and his work. That is a lie as HB's own forum comments can attest to. Would that be enough to get the entry taken down, or does this still fall under a subjective opinion and so the entry stays? If so, would deleting the sub-entries which lean towards taking potshots at the show and it's fans be acceptable?
openPage full of improper image formatting
Pokemon Mystery Tourney is filled with hotlinked images, which don't show up properly if they're not put into the image uploader first. What do I do with them? Do I replace them all with proper images myself or do I have to start an Image Pickin thread first?
openSuper-sub trope relationships.
Bit of a weird one, this.
This is regarding a Raven Branwen Hypocrite entry on Characters.RWBY Anima.
Back in July 2021, gjjones initially removed it because the Hypocrite sub-trope Never My Fault was on her page. I added it back because the Never My Fault entry was a completely different example, and there was no sub-trope detailing the Hypocrite entry. They then changed it to Straw Hypocrite, so I started a discussion on the discussion page about whether that was an appropriate move (a straw hypocrite usually doesn't believe the argument they're making, which isn't the case here). They added the entry back to Hypocrite themselves.
They've just removed the entry on the grounds that the sub-tropes Never My Fault and Secretly Selfish are on the page. But, as per last time, these sub-trope entries are about different examples to the Hypocrite one.
So, this guideline about not allowing the super-trope if sub-tropes are on the page. It's about the same examples, isn't it? If Example A for Character Y is under a sub-trope and Example B fits better under the super-trope and not any sub-trope, is it okay to have the super-trope on the same page for Example B? And, if Example A fits better under a sub-trope, you shouldn't have it listed under the super-trope as well. That's what I thought the guideline was, at any rate. What's the right thing to do here about this entry? Is there a sub/super trope thread to ask about this?
- Hypocrite: Raven has a problematic view of family responsibilities. She feels Qrow's abandonment of the Branwen tribe is turning his back on family, but he feels she has no business lecturing him when she abandoned Taiyang and Yang. Qrow tells Yang Raven only contacts him when she wants him; once Yang seeks out Raven so she can take her to Qrow and Ruby, Raven complains about family only visiting when they need something.
openold-ass self-aggregandizing, keep or cut?
yeah yeah There Is No Such Thing As Notability
ive stumbled across a few links ranting about undertale to some site called Froghand. all the examples spread through the site have been made by (surprise) a guy named froge. i dont know what policy is on people who sign up to promote their blogs/rants; if this guy had an audience i wouldnt mind
Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDanceropen Illiteracy Communist
There's a Darth Wiki page called Illiteracy Communist that is basically a sign-up page for tropers who proudly identify as Grammar Nazis, with many tropers imitating stereotypical Nazis in their entries. I didn't see any hate speech towards any particular minority groups, and the page was created in 2009 when jokingly comparing oneself to Nazis was likely seen as more acceptable, but in this day and age it comes off as incredibly tone-deaf. I'm thinking something should be done about the page, such as a cut or at least a clean-up, but I'm wondering what other tropers think.
Edited by ArgoTheBlankopenNon-YMMV tropes in YMMV pages Literature
YMMV.Xeelee Sequence has three objective tropes in its page, none of them are audience reaction or proper YMMV items.
- Always a Bigger Fish: The Transcendence would be considered as most franchises' god-like race and even they pale in comparison to the Xeelee, who themselves are losing against the Photino Birds. And even these two near-omnipotents are mere insects to the Monads. This trope also applies to out of universe as well, for the Xeelee series is often considered as the gold-standard of overpowered franchises that eclipses other 'traditionally powerful Sci-Fi franchises' such as Warhammer 40,000, The Culture, Ancient Halo and Gurren Lagann by several orders of magnitude. In fact, the amount of franchises that could stalemate or surpass the Sequence in scale could be counted on one hand.
- Cool Of Rule: Part of the reason the Sequence is so awesome is that all of the science is explained, and not just in a Hand Wave.
- Eviler than Thou: The Sequence is pretty infamous especially in versus forums for how atrociously dark and deprave it can get; often making Warhammer 40,000 look extremely PG and tame in comparison.
- Retcon: There's some inconsistencies across the series, mainly between the earlier novels and the Destiny's Children books. Some of it is simply the result of a lot more light being shed on the period between the fall of the Qax and the end of Ring, but (for example) the fact that Xeelee-style FTL drives function as time machines, including the ability to create paradoxes is only revealed in Exultant, when one would have expected it to be mentioned earlier.
While the Retcon and Cool Of Rule entry can be moved to Xeelee Sequence (although it seems like Cool Of Rule is starved of wicks), the rest look like shoehorns to compare with characters and factions from other works, not with characters and factions in the work itself. With that in mind, would it be alright to move Retcon to the main work page and to delete the rest?

Hello Tropers,
Today I want to consider doing and creating a page for another Fan Fic of Touhou Project known as "Touhou Baseball in Heat Star 2007", by "Decorun-san" in Nico Video website, as seen here
. I cannot plan to translate everything and this is a Japanese work with No Dub for You (no English translation), and I'm the only one interested currently in making the page.
Question is, since I cannot simply just create a fan-work page by myself, for now I'm considering to instead put it in Sandbox. For now, I just decide to load up with a plenty of tropes based on analysis from a rough translation from what I got.
Can I get suggestions with how are non-English fan works are generally handled? Maybe if necessary you can redirect me to a forum topic if needed, but I'm just curious, honestly.
Thank you for your attention.
Edited by JustNormalMusicLover