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openYMMV Nostalgia Critic Edit War?
During my cleanup for The Nostalgia Critic and its subpages, I deleted this Seasonal Rot entry on the basis that it doesn't describe why the whole season was bad, just focusing more on the show being Overshadowed by Controversy by an external scandal and two bad episodes out of a season of over fifty.
- In 2019, the decline has continued. Since the #ChangeTheChannel scandal, the Nostalgia Critic has increasingly become the target of ridicule in many internet circles. His review of The Wall was so widely hated that it became a meme in and of itself. The episode's lacking quality also lead viewers to start becoming more critical of future episodes, and even reflect on the flaws of past episodes initially given a free pass. The "Maybe he was transitioning" line from the Venom review wasn't received well in certain circles, either (though even in-universe, it was viewed as a dumb explanation). Even on This Very Wiki, there hasn't been as much activity regarding more recent episodes.
minikiss just re-added it
, but cut out the ChangeTheChannel and Venom mentions. However, the example still doesn't stand because it only refers to a single episode and the implication that the episode being bad made people more critical of other episodes, past and future, which doesn't indicate that particular season (or even the "recent" seasons, since it includes past episodes) being bad.
They also added a Hype Backlash entry which may or may not fit. Personally I don't think it does because the show's reputation has plummeted in recent years, so thinking it's bad now isn't really Hype Backlash - that's the common consensus.
Edited by mightymewtronopenWeird sandbox
Imperial Majesty XO created Sandbox.Gay Draft Sandbox on October 8th. It doesn't appear to be that discussion happened to result in its creation, and the sandbox itself doesn't seem to serve any real purpose. That, and it's related to the TLP incident.
Edited by GoldenCityBirdopenTroper uncommenting out ZCEs, some rudeness
It was brought up on the ZCE thread
that Queen Adrian uncommented out some ZC Es without adding context on Webcomic.Pandoras Tale. I looked through their edit history to see if this was frequent behavior and I ended up finding that they deleted this entry on SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.Video Games:
- Pokémon Black and White mentions that you should try to get along with people who have different views from yourself. Take one look at any political debate, especially those around major political parties and those on the internet, and you'd know how much that anvil really needed to be dropped.
With the edit reason:
"Oh, fuck off. People's rights are not on a similar scale to whether or not pineapple goes on pizza."
Regardless of context, the edit reason was quite rude. Didn't find a lot of other problems looking through their edits (granted I didn't look a lot, maybe there are others but I didn't see them on a cursory glance) but based on what I did find should something be done?
Edited by themayorofsimpletonopen EditWar on Recap.TheSimpsonsS7E5LisaTheVegetarian
BrianKT
has made some deletions on The Simpsons S7 E5 "Lisa the Vegetarian" that I find very questionable. The examples are Broken Aesop, Hypocrite and (on the YMMV page) Don't Shoot the Message, all of which refer to Apu talking to Lisa about how to respect other people's beliefs (the episode revolved around Lisa becoming a vegetarian, and Apu revealing he secretly serves customers tofu dogs instead of hot dogs).
BrianKT deleted all examples referring to it on the basis that "he's not forcing them on other people, and what they don't know won't hurt them".
I disagree with this assessment and restored the examples on the basis that Apu is a Hypocrite since he isn't practicing what he preaches: he tells Lisa to respect other people's beliefs and not actively force them to stop eating meat, yet he himself doesn't respect other people's beliefs since he's secretly selling them tofu dogs instead of hot dogs; if he respected other people's rights to eat meat, he would sell them the meat they paid for instead of what amounts to lying to their faces. Just because he's not vocal and in-your-face about it like Lisa is does not mean he isn't still forcing his beliefs. The "what they don't know won't hurt them" reasoning is also disagreeable since a deleted entry on BrokenAesop.The Simpsons points out that a customer could be allergic to soy, which definitely would hurt them if they ate a tofu dog while thinking it was a hot dog.
BrianKT then deleted the examples again (I didn't add the original examples, merely restored them, so he's reverse-Edit Warring: delete-add-delete [but if I'm edit-warring too, my bad]) and linked to the Removing complaining thread
as the edit reason; I went there to check, and it turns out he didn't actually get approval from the thread before deleting the examples.
Should the examples stay up, or was he justified in deleting them? I'm not sure of how to resolve this, so I'm asking here.
Edited by N8han11openPrincess1988
Princess1988 has been vandalizing and/or blanking literally every page they have edited so far. The only reasoning I can find is what they left on TearJerker.Lilo And Stitch (the page itself, not the edit reason):
openGrammar Issues and Other Problems
Astropilgrim 1621 has a consistent issue with grammar, which can be seen both in their TLP comments
and in their normal edits
. I've sent them notifiers and have told them on the TLP itself that their grammar needs work, but they've not listened. The TLP examples are especially important here — On the wiki proper, Astro mostly just edits the media categories. It's on the TLP where their
poor
grammar
really
shines
through
.
Another TLP issue is that they often just show up demanding that certain things be "fixed", even if there's no active sponsor
, despite having been asked in the past to stop
.
I've also noticed bad indentation in a recent edit
, but I don't know if it's become a pattern yet. Notifier has been sent, though.
openExcessive AlternateCharacterInterpretation + troper with an agenda
I'm bringing this up to address an issue of a character being troped based exclusively on Alternate Character Interpretation.
The problem character is Yui Ikari and the corresponding page is here. There have been dozens of edits dating back months
rewriting the character as a Well-Intentioned Extremist and a chessmaster. The issue is you have to subscribe hard to Alternate Character Interpretation and there's now a ton of contradiction in the character page claiming what's ambiguous and what's deliberate. In a nutshell, Yui's character is never given concrete motivations; everything she does is subject to ambiguity. But a lot of these edits are taking a hardline stance toward one specific interpretation of her character that contradicts the rest of the page.
I've seen the anime and most of the tropes that have been added are, at best, problematic, and others who have also watched the anime that I've discussed the matter with agree. Some samples:
- Abusive Parents: She deliberately fakes her death, traumatizing her son and making her husband grow emotionally distant from him, and subjects him to numerous traumas. Thing is, she did it all in an effort to protect his life.
- Cruel to Be Kind: No matter how one looks at her ambiguous moral compass, she is this at the very least, seeing how she did very deliberately inflict a serious emotional trauma on her son by faking her own death right in front of him, which decisively shaped his life and psyche in a very negative direction. However, she did so to enact her plan of allowing him and the rest of humanity to get the right to choose their own fate during Instrumentality, something SEELE would have denied all of them.
- More Deadly Than the Male: In The End of Evangelion, it is made clear that she was a much more shrewd and accomplished schemer than Gendo could ever hope to be, having managed to outmanouvre SEELE even though her physical presence in the world had been severely limited for more than a decade and she only had one unambiguous ally (Fuyutsuki) on her side.
- Soft-Spoken Sadist: She is not sadistic by any measure, but she is willfully cruel to the point of being on the borderline of an Anti-Hero and an Anti-Villain and has a profoundly soft, soothing voice.
- Well-Intentioned Extremist: Her goal is to counter SEELE and The Angels and protect Shinji's life. To do this, she'll emotionally torment both her husband and son by faking her death, make said son's friend die horribly in front of his eyes by refusing to save her and temporarily glass humanity to take down SEELE's potential for regaining power.
All of these tropes are contradicted or otherwise called into question elsewhere on the page in regards to the ambiguity that surrounds most of Yui's character.
Almost every edit seems to be the work of one user, Orangutans who TBH I think is troping with an agenda. I think the culmination was when said user brought up a post
in the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread that relied, almost exclusively, on said Alternate Character Interpretation.
Other tropers have taken issue with this before, on the page itself; back in October another user wiped a bunch of edits that were equally ambiguous and invited Orangutans to use the Discussion page
, but the offer was never taken up. The other user subsequently added this
Ambiguous Situation trope in an attempt to mollify the situation, but that trope and others like it are still being contradicted by the problem edits Orangutans has left.
Can we take a deeper look at this?
Edited by ScraggleopenTroper with a history of spam
Sheiam-akanda's edit history
is entirely edits to their troper page, vandalism to Laura Bailey, and the creation of spam subpages for Laura Bailey, all seemingly to self-promote.
openDCAU Superman's personality Western Animation
Thetropemaster101 has sent me a message
about most recent edits for the character page for the Superman from the DC Animated Universe, and honestly, I have no idea what's he trying to do here.
He is very obsessed with explaining how different DCAU Superman is to his comic book counterpart, but his edits feel gratuitous at best, downright irrelevant at worst. What do I mean with this?
Superman's characterization has been all over the place in the comics, particularly in his identity as Clark Kent, but Tropemaster seems to think that the DCAU presents radical changes to Superman's portrayal.
- He is considerably less dorky as Clark Kent compared to most versions. In the comic books from the Silver Age and the Christopher Reeve movies; yes, Clark was a dorky nerd. In the John Byrne reboot and Lois & Clark, Clark is a lot more assertive.
- As mentioned above in Adaptational Angst Upgrade, this Superman is shown to be more short-termed, fearful, insecure, and cynical compared to more versions in addition to retaining his idealism. Apart from the fact that redirecting to other parts of the page is a huge no-no, Superman has struggled with some pretty dark topics throughout his history, such as political corruption, depression, loss of loved ones, detachment from humanity, etc.
- Also, like most modern versions, he prefers to be identified as Clark first in order to keep himself sane and believes Superman is a way of helping people. Again, John Byrne did it first.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just being too harsh on Tropemaster but I don't want this page to look like it's talking down to readers by explaining in excruciating detail how DCAU Superman is different from the Superman from the modern comics.
So, what do you think?
Edited by MasterHeroopen Troper vandalizin’ character page. Videogame
Prest Otron has been tamperin’ Five Nights at Freddy's: First Generation, specifically the quotes. They changed them from in-game quotes to attacks on the FNAF fandom. Here is an example:
From:
To:
Dunno if they have been on other pages.
Edited by DelibirdaopenEdit war on YMMV.Punisher2022
There appears to be a rather lengthy edit war going on the YMMV page for Punisher (2022).
- On June 5th 2024, bigbossdiego rewrote a large section of the page
and removed Fanon Discontinuity. Their edit reason states that the page is incredibly biased, particularly towards one character.
- On February 22nd, Jondoe1265 made two
edits
- the first changing Broken Base to Critical Dissonance and readding Fanon Discontinuity, the second being a rewrite.
- On February 23rd, bigbossdiego undid these changes
.
- On February 24th, Jondoe1265 readded them
, claiming that the people giving the comic praise are critics who don't like The Punisher.
- About three hours later, bigbossdiego undid the changes again
, claiming that people on sites like League of Comic Geeks and Reddit enjoyed the series.
- On February 25th, Jondoe1265 reverted it back again
, accusing bigbossdiego's edits of censoring negative opinions of the work.
- Hours later, Bigbossdiego clapped back
before Jondoe reverted it again
.
The work itself seems to already be fairly divisive going off YMMV's edit history. But this is an edit war, right?
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenWeird additions to national Useful Notes pages
On 22nd April and later 5th May, following edits from January that introduced write-ups about current cabinets (yes, I know, old news), troper The Blitzerz 97 did an entire string of edits in Useful Notes pages for a long list of nations. His edits were of the same pattern: adding party affiliation of residing presidents/prime ministers (and adding those in the first place, if they were missing) and potential government. Which is weird, but mostly harmless by itself... except handful of those countries had elections campaigns going around that time, and the edits blatantly mislabeled said affiliations, especially when having to either claim someone is "independent" or any kind of left-leaning party (which many were instantly labelled commie and of course also painted red, even if that's not the party's color [which seems to be the "key"]).
I'm questioning it on two grounds: the pointlessness of such affiliations in the first place and, more importantly, how there is a clear pattern of mislabeling. Won't call it an agenda, it's too low key for that, but it's rather obvious where the political sympathies of the troper lay. That without mentioning the obvious - many of those edits are simply factually wrong.
Examples:
This really goes on and on. There were numerous edits in this vein, see more hereopenSome odd phrasings on UsefulNotes.BDSM
So this paragraph on UsefulNotes.BDSM is worded a little oddly-
"A century later, these words had picked up some quite different and quite negative meanings. "Sadism" was used as a generic slur for being a malicious jerk or utter monster who enjoys making others suffer, while "masochism" was used as a similar slur to brand people as self-destructive. A popular excuse for refusing to help victims of Domestic Abuse was to brand them "masochists", implying that they merely pretended to not enjoy the beatings, just to get attention. These days, these creepy secondary meanings are losing power as actual sadism and masochism is becoming more and more socially accepted."
Firstly, "sadistic" and "masochistic" are slurs? This paragraph (and the one before it) is correct that "sadistic" and "masochistic" are derived from Marquis de Sade and Leopold von Sacher-Masoch and initially meant only their sexual contexts, but there's this thing called "definition drift", they mean two things now. I've never heard anyone else get offended if someone talks about "a sadistic tyrant" or calls someone a masochist for continuing to watch a show long into its Seasonal Rot. Moreover, a "slur" is not just any word that isn't a compliment. I've never seen any style guide that considers any use of the words "sadistic" or "masochistic" outside of the context of a consensual relationship as offensive or outdated.
Furthermore, I don't think they're falling out of fashion as words outside of BDSM contexts. Here are two news articles from major outlets
from the past month that use these words right in their title.
We have tropes like Sadistic Choice, Soft-Spoken Sadist, Masochist's Meal, and The Masochism Tango, all of which use the quote-unquote "creepy" meanings, and no one's ever complained.
This seems like it was written by a troper with an axe to grind (a whip to crack?) and is personally offended by uses of these words outside consensual BDSM contexts, and doesn't seem like it's a common sentiment among the wider BDSM community. Permission to rewrite?
openCM/Tragic Hero crossover, misuse?
I saw these approved Complete Monsters under Tragic Hero. I know they're disqualified from Tragic Villain as evil beyond having the remorse or sympathy required, and Griffith had his Tragic Hero entry cut over this (but it could have been over how selfish/ruthless he was even before is full fall to villainy). The entries in question.
- Wish: King Magnifico is a powerful king who once genuinely wanted to keep people safe and happy from the cruel reality and is beloved by all his subjects. But his narcissism and paranoia consume him to the point he's willing to do anything to remain in control over his kingdom including alienating his beloved wife and dabbling into forbidden magic. His flaws eventually turn him into a megalomaniacal tyrant and a classic Disney villain Hated by All. A decent amount of the backlash against the movie is that it failed to portray him as sympathetically as they wanted given his nuance, so this seems misuse as unintentional. This overlaps with Fallen Hero so can be moved.
- Emperor Belos from The Owl House serves as an example. Belos' obsession with being a hero and bigotry leads to his downfall and destruction. He was the supreme ruler of the Boiling Isles for over 50 years and beloved by nearly everyone, a fantasy dream come true for any typical power-hungry despot. However, he was willing to throw that away in favor of fame as Witch Hunter General, a fringe position that doesn't exist anymore in the Human Realm. He truly had everything he ever wanted in the Boiling Isles yet was too blind to see it because of his racist, ignorant views. His refusal to see reality ultimately leads him to die in the Boiling Isles rather than his hometown of Gravesfield, Hated by All in the Demon Realm and completely forgotten in the Human Realm. His achieving supreme rulership was only ever intended as a means to enact genocide, so misuse as written.
- Characters.The Owl House Emperor Belos: The show alludes Belos' character to Macbeth for a reason. Belos' obsession with being a hero and bigotry leads to his downfall and destruction. He murders Caleb in a fit of rage, and then spend four centuries trying to make up for the sin by eliminating all "evil" witches. Despite becoming a beloved leader of the witches, Belos' obsession to become a hero of humans drives him to betray his loyal followers. By the end of the series, he loses everything and dies unmourned in the Boiling Isles, and forgotten in the Human Realm. The Macbeth allusions show it's somewhat intended, and his original goal to save Caleb was heroic despite his period-appropriate prejudice only to very badly fall. He is, or was, nuanced despite how utterly vile he became. I'd say he's a Deconstructed Character Archetype of it as he seemingly fits the archetype, but twists it by his tragic/few humanizing aspects being twisted/driving him far past the point he loses all the sympathy associated and even the notion of being heroic has decayed to pure self-delusion.
They're tragic figures, but not sympathetic ones, a distinction Tragic Villain is misleading on given the name. Does that also apply to Tragic Hero as well? Thoughts on my proposed fixes for them?
openPossibly shoehorned fan works? Film
YMMV.K Pop Demon Hunters has a lot of links to fan works even though that should be on a separate page. Examples:
- Fandom-Specific Plot:
- A fair amount of fan art pieces (like this one
) revolves around Rumi being hesitant that Mira and Zoey would not accept them for their demon heritage...Only to have the other two fawn over her in desire and eager to see more of her. <—-I don't see any reason to link to that specific fanart except for self promotion
- A fair amount of fan art pieces (like this one
- Fanon:
- As a result of the fandom believing Jinu is not dead and gone, a popular fan canon claims that his soul now exists in Rumi's new sword. There's already a fanwork
which depicts said sword as a Talking Weapon who comforts Rumi when summoned. <—-Again, I don't see the point/relevance of linking that specific fanwork except for self promotion
- As a result of the fandom believing Jinu is not dead and gone, a popular fan canon claims that his soul now exists in Rumi's new sword. There's already a fanwork
- Friendly Fandoms:
- Many were quick to point out the similarities between Huntrix and K/DA, regarding the former as something of a Spiritual Successor considering the latter is still on hiatus. Naturally there is shipping.
<—-Crossover Ship already covers the shipping aspect, no need to add a random fanart piece
- With Transformers One for similar reasons (Transformers One released on Netflix four days beforehand) due to the surprisingly similar fun yet dark vibes, action and angst. There's even fan-made edits!
<—-Why is linking the fan edit necessary?
- With Devil May Cry, due to their similarities causing this film to be perceived as a spiritual adaptation of that franchise. Rumi is being compared to Dante because just like him, she is also a sword-wielding half-demon who hunts other demons while looking good in style, and being good at dancing. Some fanworks depict them getting along as fellow hunters if they meet
.<—-Again, it is highly unnecessary to add a fan art link when it is already explained why there is a shared fandom
- Many were quick to point out the similarities between Huntrix and K/DA, regarding the former as something of a Spiritual Successor considering the latter is still on hiatus. Naturally there is shipping.
openAgenda-based editing Live Action TV
A large portion of regularmordecai’s
edits here center around the Stranger Things scene where Eleven hits Angela with a skate for bullying her (most of them are on the show’s YMMV page) and it definitely seems agenda-based as they keep pushing the message that fans shouldn’t have enjoyed that scene and exaggerating Eleven’s actions (such as calling her a school shooter despite the fact that she didn’t kill anyone). This has been going on for about ten months now and on several occasions I tried making these entries more neutral but they promptly edited them again to add additional complaints, often using weasel words to make it sound like much of the fandom agrees with them when it’s likely just their personal opinion. They recently added an entry
under the Nightmare Fuel page bashing real-life fans for thinking Angela had it coming and calling them “foolhardy”
for allegedly saying they wished they could have done the same to their bullies (and the entry is improper at any rate since the page is about the show itself, not real-life events).
openComplaints Magnet? Film
The Critical Research Failure section under Mulan (2020) is getting quite long and nitpicky, in excess of even what the most flexible interpretations of the trope allow. While a lot of people have correctly called the film out for failing to get basic aspects of Chinese culture correct despite advertising itself as more authentic, a lot of these examples come off as less informed criticisms and more an excuse for certain users to kick the film while it's down by parroting criticisms they saw elsewhere, some of which may misunderstand the actual reason for why the mistake was such an issue in the first place, or introduce Critical Research Failure of their own.
This despite scholars of Chinese culture and people of Chinese descent themselves pointing out that these aspects of Chinese culture get subjected to Artistic License within Chinese-created media all the time, and are not as clear-cut or even the worst crimes the film commits.
Edited by AlleyOopopenPlatonic Life Partners added back in, violates guidelines
I noticed that Platonic Life-Partners was added back in, by Troper jonty1
, to both Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet's Creator pages very recently (see here
and here
). This is despite the fact that the trope was deleted from both pages circa 2016 and 2019 due to Creator Page Guidelines, most likely due to "Drooling/Gushing" and the trope itself is not associated within the two films they starred in together; see here
and here
.
Since this was added back in, 1) wouldn't this count as an Edit War? 2) Because this violates Creator Page Guidelines, may I have permission to remove the trope from both pages? If so, I'll cite this ATT post as part of my Edit Reason.
Edited by mouschilightopenLarge scale editing without discussion and leaving behind quite some mess Live Action TV
So troper adonzo
has taken it upon himself to move large portions on MCU related pages.
While I am not necessarily opposed to what he did, I am opposed to how he did it, as he didn't discuss this with anybody and also left some mess behind
Biggest example: The folder for Mack is now double, both here
and here
, with no redirect.
I already PM'd him, but if he doesn't react, can his edits be reverted?
Edited by Forenperser

It's about Daenerys Targeryen again.
The original entry by Eolewyn 1010 here
:
Deleted by White Wolf 4961 with the reason "This is all clearly anti Dany. Besides that one master, when has she ever fed people to her dragons? And she didn’t bring the Dothraki to rape and pillage with impunity. In fact she was horrified at what they did to that village in S1. Besides what she’s done is hardly any different to what other “good leaders” like the Starks have done."
Re-added by Nerdanel Noldo with the reason "Restoring this because the reasons it was deleted are incorrect. This is not Anti-Daenerys, it's stating what she did in the show. Aside from downplaying the horrific things Daenerys did, the previous editor said that the starks did horrible things too, which they did not, but this ignores the point: the starks weren't continously described as having a 'gentle heart' and being so kind and compassionate, unlike Daenerys."
I'm honestly exhausted with Daenerys arguments at this point, but I think it's worth noting that Nerdanel has a history of edits that seem to slant towards an anti-Dany bias. This
, this
, and and this
are all deletions made in Sansa's defense (some of which may be okay, but Sansa isn't absolutely blameless in some of her Season 8 actions), and the edit reasons are filled with insults at Dany. This
, too, but the first sentence in the edit reason is "The whole entry is just stupid."
Also, imo, Nerdanel's edit reasons tend to be filled with misinformation or misinterpretation that seems deliberate. The aforementioned entry talks about Dany being cruel for crucifying people, leaving out that said people murdered children and slaves and did the same thing to them. This one
calls Mirri Maz Duur an innocent, leaving out that she killed Dany's unborn child. This
and this
, though, are just so blatantly incorrect and I daresay trying to defend Viserys, of all people, saying he "was good to Dany for years" (he constantly abused and sexually assaulted her) and didn't sell Dany to Drogo, and that it was just an arranged marriage. (So, I guess that "I would let all 10,000 Dothraki and their horses fuck you" comment just never happened.) It honestly feels like they're trying to undermine the things Dany suffered through just because they don't like her.
Edited by iamconstantine