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Ask the Tropers:
openUnfixed mistakes on a trope page.
fearlessnikki recently added examples to Remade and Improved that don't qualify for different reasons. I've messaged the troper responsible and gotten no response. I can't remove the bad examples myself because I'm currently banned from editing, and I can't directly ask someone else to do it because that would be editing-by-proxy.
I've asked about this in a couple places, and I was advised to ask about it here. What, if anything, can I do about it?
Edit: Examples as requested:
- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RemadeAndImproved#edit35149632
- Bridge to Terabithia, Carrie, and The Worst Witch are based on books and therefore ineligible.
- West Side Story is based on a Broadway musical and therefore ineligible.
- The Last House on the Left remake may be considered superior to the original by some, but not by a majority.
- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RemadeAndImproved#edit35150098
- Hunchback of Notre Dame is ineligible because it's based on a book. The troper even acknowledges the book's existence.
openCan Self.Demonstration include multiple characters?
I noticed Rick and Morty stands out for featuring a duo rather than just a single character. Does that imply Self.Demonstrating can be about multiple characters? And if so, what are some limits on that?
openNeptunia Characters page Videogame
The characters page is split based on each game. The first game has its own continuity, and the third game introduces some AU Counterparts, but the Hyperdimension characters appear repeatedly throughout the series, so they're often just getting the same tropes on each game's character page. Wouldn't it be better to have Character Specific Pages like Broly's with folders for different continuities as well as one for common traits?
Edited by KOmanopenOppenheimer's YMMV page, "Barbenheimer", and Japanese response
Oppenheimer's YMMV page is getting coverage of certain issues regarding the whole "Barbenheimer" fandom crossover with the Barbie film, specifically how Japanese audiences don't think it's as funny considering their Nuclear Weapons Taboo. The Mis-blamed entries I think should be cut because not only am I not sure who is supposed to be "in the wrong", I don't think it's particularly relevant to the actual movie (it's a meme that only barely touches the actual Oppenheimer film itself), but the Americans Hate Tingle entry is more vague... I don't think the Barbenheimer meme is really relevant, but the movie does touch on understandably touchy topics; is there any particular hangups Japanese audiences have with the movie on its own terms beyond its overall subject matter?
openWeird reorganization on What an Idiot!.Saw Film
Recently, Ansongc2000 has done a reorganization process for What an Idiot!.Saw that I find rather weird. To wit, not long beforehand, I had created folders for each film to concur with the first "In General" entry added to the page, especially as some of the film sections were already quite long by then. Then Ansongc walked in and added a decent bunch of new examples (while also removing or rearranging a few existing ones without much explanation other than them being "bad") for the first seven films, while also grouping them in a single folder and leaving Jigsaw and Spiral with their respective folders; they also removed the "Series-wide" and "By movie" headers I added to split the "In General" folder and the movie-specific ones in their own parts. In fact, they relegated the "By movie" name to the new folder for the first seven movies, even though it doesn't make sense when put alongside the Jigsaw and Spiral folders with their respective films' titles.
Even if grouping the movies by major storyline can be reasoned because of Jigsaw and Spiral having time gaps with both the first seven consecutive films and each other, it leaves a somewhat disproportioned and confusing structure for me, especially as plenty of the first seven movies' sections are now as long as the ones that used to be the longest before Ansongc's edits (not to mention to aforementioned issue with the "By movie" name). Even though I did the previous structure myself, I honestly prefer that structure for a movie series' What an Idiot! page over the page's current one.
By the way, I informed Ansongc about this query via private message.
Edited by Inky100openProblematic/insulting edits.
Sola 001 made these edits to Anvilicious under YMMV.Star Trek Picard:
- Added to portrayal of the Confederation "much like contemporary First World countries and how they built themselves upon the exploitation of Global South and oppression of anyone who is different or dare to dissident" and "just like how USA still celebrates Independence Day and Thanksgiving despite the historical genocide and continued oppression they commited against natives of the Land."
- Changed "climate change" to "climate crisis" (wouldn't see this as a big issue if not for the other stuff).
- Replaced "if you don't know or don't care about American political issues, this episode may come off as confusing or uninteresting" with "if you don't know or don't care about basic human rights, this episode may come off as triggering and offensive to fragile and selfish snowflakes who is crying as they watched this". (The old version seems suspect in retrospect, but this edit is directly insulting audiences.)
I intend to revert. Any objections or anything to deal with first?
openUnilateral trope page change
DavidJohnsonVG
changed all the example folders for the trope T-Word Euphemism to themed names
, so "Anime & Manga" becomes "The A and M Words", Comic Books becomes "The CB Words" and so on, which in my opinion makes the page harder to read. It also doesn't entirely work since some categories start with the same letter, so he includes a second letter which seems to go against the trope itself. Should I just revert it?
openExample needs expansion
From the Real Life section of Shocking Defeat Legacy:
"The Mongols have done this a lot to others: they conquered China, decimated Persia, ravaged Russia, and nearly conquered Europe. For Russians especially, the Mongol attack on Kievan Rus' is cited as one of the major reasons for why Russians are backward compared to Europe."
This needs expanding, because (opinions of Russia right now to one side) it sounds like cultural posturing. This should be expanded to explain how they are "backward" from a purely objective viewpoint. Technology? Culture? Economy? What is it?
I am not an expert on this, so I can't flesh this out myself. Should it be commented out until someone with more knowledge can fix it?
open potential Edit War with Bense in the Hobbit Literature
This other troper and I have been arguing. We can't agree on anything. The problem is that I am willing to keep entries on our debate neutral, and he keeps asserting his point of view as fact. The problem is that his views I just cannot bring myself to leave them be. They simply clash with all my interpretations of the book and I feel a little sick looking at what he treats as fact, since in order to be at peace with it I'd have to change my very moral compass, and I can't just do that on short notice!
openAvoiding an Edit War
Reposting
a couple things
(though it's not exactly the same).
The other day, someone added
a "[sic]" next to each "Hearths" in Characters.Friendship Is Failure. While I think using "[sic]" itself is fine, I want to remove it in this case because it isn't a spelling mistake. Also, I checked and "hearths"
isn't an obscure term. It's additionally used
on The Other Wiki. Additionally, I posted this on a cleanup thread. However, nobody answered my question. Would it be ok if I remove them?
I would do it myself, however, I want to avoid an Edit War because the troper in question brought them back
after I deleted them
.
openEdit War and Avoiding Entering One
A while back, in Characters.NU Carnival, I deleted a Beauty Mark entry as that's no longer a trope and I explained that in my edit reason. However, Shootthestar18 brought it back
. While I sent them a "not a trope" notifier a few days ago, I still haven't gotten a response. I also checked the history and I realized Shootthestar 18 engaged in an Edit War since they originally added the entry.
Would it be ok if I remove this Beauty Mark entry? I would do it myself, however, I want to avoid an Edit War. If somebody else wants to delete it, you're free to do so.
EDIT: Slightly trimmed this.
Edited by RandomTroper123openEdit War Over Chained Sinkholes
In Characters.A Nightmare On Elm Street Freddy Krueger, Night Games made an edit
in which they used a couple Chained Sinkholes. I therefore sent them a notifier about this and fixed them
while noting this in my edit reason.
However, they clearly ignored my notifier and my edit reason as they just re-added
the Chained Sinkholes. Can I please revert these changes? (Of course, I would myself. However, I don't want to be a participant in said Edit War.)
openCan Mewtwo have Hartman Hips? Asking for someone else.
All the way back in 2014, I pulled an example on Hartman Hips that listed Mewtwo (the genderless, barely-humanoid pokemon). It read as follows.
Mewtwo, despite being classified as genderless and leaning on the masculine side, has pretty big hips while having a small waist and shoulder line.
I just got an inquiry from a troper named Gamer Boy 18 that asked me how it isn't a valid example.
I don't like it when someone sets themself up as the curator of a particular trope, so rather than answer with authority I'm posting it here.
My logic is that since Hartman Hips is about a particular style of drawing female characters and it isn't female, it's not valid.
(Also, it's rather strange that I got an inquiry about an edit I made back in 2014 when the subject hasn't been brought up since then)
open Edit war report (including self-report).
First of all, sorry for accidentally contributing to edit war. I'll try not to repeat it again. Second, there was an edit war on Trivia.Freedom Planet 2, regarding a user adding complainy natter.
- A user called jerkwad152 added this
complainy natter edit as a sub-bullet to Development Hell at November 25th of 2021, the statement being a response to the comment's finalized date being "So far, anyway. There have been a number of "final" dates.", obviously insulting the developers for not meeting their deadlines in the past.
- It was removed by Mister Tambourine Man on February 3rd of this year with an edit reason "This isn't a message board".
- jerkwad152 re-added the edit with a rude edit reason of "Rent-a-modding not needed".
- Mister Tambourine Man re-removed it again, given edit reason being "This is a wiki page, not a message board."
- jerkwad152 re-re-adds the nattery edit with "No one is using the wiki as a message board. It's an objectively true statement. Continued misuse of the edit function simply because you disagree will result in the involvement of site staff." as an edit reason.
- And then I removed it again (sorry about contributing to edit war, by the way. It won't happen again).
Anyways, we have an issue with a user being defensive of their complainy and nattery edit. I'd ask we keep an eye on the page just in case.
openEdit warring/possible agenda by troper in "YMMV/ShaggyAndScoobyGetAClue" Western Animation
Troper Aldrine Joseph 25 added a Vindicated by History example to Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get A Clue!, which fell into the usual "new thing is bad, so this makes bad thing from before better" trapping, regarding Velma. I deleted it alongside a justifying edit in the Audience-Alienating Era entry, since I haven't seen many Scooby-Doo fans falling back onto this series when there's dozen of other far more beloved works in the franchise that people put over Velma, such as Zombie Island, Mystery Incorporated and What's New, Scooby-Doo?.
aldrinejoseph doubled down on adding back the justifying edit to Audience-Alienating Era, calling Velma a monstrosity. I know the series is bad, but that seems way too harsh and at this point the entries seems agenda-ish, since they keep mentioning Velma while saying nothing about the series itself.
Edited by Edgar81539openEdit war on Awesome.TheSuperMarioBrosMovie
Tropers.Blue Sun Studios modified this example to have spoiler markup to the page despite the notice that moments pages are Spoilers Off. Link
- A villainous example as Bowser's more stalwart and gung-ho koopa soldier steps out of the fiery remains of his vehicle and reveals himself to be the blue shell! He quickly takes himself out like the item proper, but this koopa was so unafraid of death that he immediately resorted to his life-ending blue shell tackle+explosion combo without a second thought to get one last shot at killing Mario.
Tropers.King Clark removed the spoiler markup only for Tropers.Blue Sun Studios to put at all back. Link
.
Add > Delete> Re-add constitutes an Edit War...
openLong Period EditWar on Character page for Katsuki Bakugo that I unknowingly contributed to.
On March 5th, 2022
, Million Hypotheses removed the trope The Not-Love Interest from My Hero Academia - Katsuki Bakugo with no edit reason.
- The Not-Love Interest: For Midoriya. Bakugo is one of Midoriya's primary motivators and sources of inspiration, and saving or helping him has been Midoriya's primary motivation in four arcs,note The Introduction, Final Exams, Forest Training Camp, and Hideout Raid Arcs as well as the reason behind their second fight. Midoriya even reacts with goofy smiles when Bakugo praises him after their second fight and worries about him during the Joint Training Arc and both refer to each other by childish nicknames. Insulting Bakugo to Midoriya's face is a good way to make Midoriya fly off the handle, and due to Midoriya's Psychoactive Powers is extremely dangerous.
On August 13th, 2022
, Rebel Falcon (Me) removed the entry, unknowingly for the second time, citing trope misuse with the following edit reason.
On October 2nd, 2022
, spaceforests restored the entry again, which has since remained untouched aside from the following addition to the entry.
Once again, I had no idea I was perpetuating an Edit War, and originally came to ATT thinking spaceforests had started an Edit War by restoring the entry after I removed it, only to learn about the prior removal and addition beforehand.
Regardless though, I do feel the entry itself is trope misuse, as none of the details cited are traits exclusive to the love interest, when one of the parameters of the trope is "This trope often represents a Subversion of one or more Love Interest tropes, or tropes that normally lead to a character becoming a Love Interest, such as Rescue Romance.", and multiple traits listed are just traits Izuku Midoriya has as a character overall, especially since he does have traits exclusive to his canonical love interest, Ochako Uraraka, that he doesn't share with anyone else, like their Twice Shy behavior, or being able to confide in one another in a way they can't do with anyone else like in their shared desire to save villains but thinking it makes them weird to everyone else.
...And I know it's begging, but please don't suspend me for this! I swear to God that I didn't know it was an already existing Edit War back when I removed it, and now that I do know I openly declare I would have never removed it had I known without going to ATT first! I can even offer evidence I was just focusing on the trope misuse! I had brought it up on the forum
when someone accused me of removing it out of spite, and was told by a mod then and there to keep it to ATT.
openRepeated "They Wasted" misuse
YMMV.Pokemon Scarlet And Violet (again)
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The idea of Paradox Pokémon was praised by many, except for the Future Pokémon. Many think that having them all as robotic or mechanical versions of their present-day counterparts is rather uncreative as they're very identical in appearance. Iron Thorns, Jugulis, and Leaves are commonly cited offenders. Compare this to Ancient Pokémon who were more well-received due to being based on a wider variety of prehistoric creatures. Miraidon itself was one of the few exceptions for looking completely different from Cyclizar and Koraidon while also being very expressive in its own right.
This is misuse as TWAPGP is unused plots not poorly used, which this is as the "plot", the Future Pokémon designs (also character designs seem shoehorns) being seen as untrusting/lazy compared to the Ancient Pokémon are. (Granted Miraidon avoiding these problem is the best argument I've seen for something about it being underused, but this still seems more like poor use, not unused.)
I've previously cut it
from They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character for the same issue (about lack of screentime not poorly received designs). This is the third, maybe forth, time this has been added under "They Wasted" entries.
Permission to remove? Anything this issue might fit?
open Alternate Self question
Hello. So recently Known Unknown started deleting examples of Alternate Self from the Batman (1966) character pages, with that show having been established as being an alternate universe in DC's live-action multiverse created by Crisis on Infinite Earths (2019). The trope had been used in character folders to have links to different versions of characters shown to canonically exist in the multiverse (for example, 66 Batman had a link to the Burton Batman page). Using the trope in this way has also been used with characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Spider-Man Trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man Series.
Known Unknown claims that the use of the trope was inaccurate since they don't fit the criteria of the trope, and that just because these pieces of media crossed over in Crisis that doesn't retroactively make this trope valid. They also said the trope should only be used for alternate versions of character that directly interacted with each other (so Smallville Superman interacting with Arrowverse Superman). They also claimed it shouldn't have been used for characters that didn't appear in the crossover at all, as it has been used for characters that have appeared in multiple pieces of media established to be canon with each other (for example, both Smallville and Arrowverse have used the same villains).
Given that the multiverse is clearly becoming a thing in live-action media and companies are retconning previous films/shows as part of the multiverse, I feel that it needs to be made clear whether Alternate Self is a trope that can be used in situations like this. If not, can another trope be used instead of Alternate Self. Personally I think Alternate Self makes sense in this context, but if I'm wrong I would like to know so I can undo the mistakes that I have made.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UnintentionallySympathetic/AnimeAndManga
In My Hero Academia, Endeavour is shown isolating and roughhousing Shoto, for seemingly no other reason than besting All Might vicariously through his offspring. Shoto and Natsuo blamed their father for their loved ones' downfalls, even if he wasn't physically present at the tragedies. Though Touya's backstory recontextualized the Todoroki history. While Endeavour was still a major cause of conflict, all the family members contributed. Rei agreed to the quirk marriage and having more children after Fuyumi, thinking it could help her family. She could've of put her foot down more and pay closer attention to her older children, when she was wrapped up in her own fears. Besides from Shoto, who was too young at the time, the Todoroki children played their part as well: Touya would burn himself for his hero training and lash out against his loved ones' warnings. Fuyumi was aware of her family's unspoken tension, but kept silent for the sake of keeping the peace. Natsuo grew tired of Touya's ramblings and wasn't as supportive as he could've been.
This doesnt argue that Endeavor Is sympathetic but rather how unsympathetic everyone else is.