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openMaking a new Prehistoric Life page.
An idea for a small move that I thought it was worth asking for feedback: I noticed in the paleontology fact checking/discussion thread that, in the useful notes page Prehistoric Life - Non-Dinosaurian Reptiles, the group of mammal-like reptiles (the same group of the sail-backed Dimetrodon) was together with reptiles, despite the fact that they aren't considered to be so anymore in the cladistic sense, as the page itself notices. It also talks about the small mammals of the age of the dinosaurs, meaning it included non-reptiles anyway. But since taking it out would be extremely pedantic, as the term was widely used for a long time, I thought that it would be a good idea to move the section to its own page about the ancestors of the mammals and their relatives in general, since it seems to have enough content compared to other small Prehistoric Life pages like Prehistoric Life - Primitive Ornithischians and Prehistoric Life – Hadrosaur Predecessors.
I made the sandbox Prehistoric Life Mammal Predecessors and wrote a description, what did you think? Would this help to organize it or is it pedantically unnecessary? I plan to put a link directing to that in the "mammal-like reptiles" section of the non-dinosaurian reptiles page in case it is moved.
Edited by good-morningopen Edit War on Fast-Killing Radiation + self-report
Er... I accidentally triggered an Edit War on Fast-Killing Radiation without realizing it so I deeply apologize, but figured I should get this out of the way. Courtesy link here
- August 24: I launched the trope with most of the content.
- August 25: St Fan added a dash
to "Video Game Examples" and changed it to "Video-Game Examples".
- Shortly after, I removed the dash
with this edit reason: "Improper use of the dash.", but to give more clarity, it's because I found St. Fan's use of the dash in this case odd since "Video Game" is two separate words and doesn't need to be connected with the dash. It was then I realized I triggered an Edit War by accident since I forgot I was the one who launched the trope.
I'll await further judgment from the mods, but do know that it wasn't my intention to start an Edit War in the first place. I simply had a brain fart and reverted St. Fan's edit without realizing it would trigger an Edit War.
openEditing quibble - HOTD Live Action TV
Hello everyone, I hope this is the correct place to ask this?
For this page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/HouseOfTheDragon
(sorry I am not sure if there is a better way to link it) there has been some disagreement about it's contents.
I recently edited it to cut down some length; for example some of it went into too much paragraphs detail as opposed to a one paragraph summarization, I feel some personalised bits like "Fuck the Seven Strictures! And the Faith!" as a viewer's reaction don't fit and others are outright wrong in interpretation (while saying theirs confirms all other interpretations are wrong) as confirmed by a showrunner himself/ Word of God (Miguel Sapochnik). I didn't add anything, just removed some pieces.
I explained the reasons in the edit box as it would be improper to do such a shift without a given reason - however it has since been edited back with the following comments from the original editor;
"No-one who can't speak English properly is removing another's examples" / "Miguel Sapochnik told viewers their T Vs were at fault and not his lighting direction in 'The Long Night'. He has no right to give a carte blanche interpretation of a scene."
Can I ask what to do here? The first comment especially did feel hurtful and mean-spirited.
I would like to edit it since as I said I feel it goes off the format and it's confirmed some of it is incorrect, but I don't want to get into that with those sorts of comments to me or spark an editing scuffle which would be unfair for everyone.
openStaving off edit war
In February 2022, negatwenty
edited AwesomeMusic.Super Smash Bros (courtesy link to page history
) to put a redundant pothole around the spoiler warning at the top of the page, changing Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned. to [[Administrivia/{{YouHaveBeenWarned}} You have been warned.]] I removed it on the grounds of its redundancy; the double curly braces alone are unnecessary, but so is potholing the title to itself purely for the sake of only having the initial Y capitalised.
And a few days ago, they put it back again without an edit reason. This is a pointless hill to die on, so I'm reporting it here instead. Permission to re-remove it?
Edited by mlsmithcaopen Sweetness Aversion misuse (widespread)?
Sweetness Aversion is when audiences have a negative reaction to overly saccharine works. It was formerly Tastes Like Diabetes but was changed to separate the negative audience reaction examples from others. But the Sweetness Aversion sub-pages look like they were moved without cleaning up misuse as almost all fail to explain the negative reaction to it or play with it which YMMV can't be.
Some examples from SweetnessAversion.Western Animation:
- Lady Rainicorn from Adventure Time looks like a toy
◊ but is really a Badass Adorable. Not this if positively received as described.
- Animaniacs:
- Mindy. Between "Wakko's Wish" and the Buttons and Mindy episode "Mindy in Wonderland," one could vomit from the sugar overdose. Especially with the line "Fuzzy Bunny," and, "'kay I love you bye bye." Might count, might be a parody.
- "Baloney And Kids" parodies this with the namesake Barney clone. Deliberate parody. Does that fit something else?
- "Valuable Lesson" features Moral Guardians making the Warners watch an expy of The Smurfs with a lesson on being angry as an example of the kind of program Animaniacs needs to be. Same as above.
- Arthur becomes this during Kate and Pal's episodes. The series could be seen as becoming something of it as a whole thanks to the new animation. '''ZCE as to how it's such and the negative reaction to it.
- Batman: The Animated Series Baby
◊ Doll
◊ seems this, but is really a 30-year-old insane woman who merely acts like a little girl thanks to her massive issues stemming from being a Former Child Star whose body never matured past childhood. Double misuse it it was one of the saddest, best received work from the show.'
- ChalkZone is considered by many to be the sweetest and cutest of all the Nicktoons. This initially hurt its reception amongst viewers though as many it was too saccharine, but the show has earned itself a decent-sized fanbase over the years. Largely valid. But is the last part Natter?
- Hasbro's My Little Pony cartoons are famous and notorious for this, but reality is a bit murkier... Valid the franchise was considered this, but this seems wishy-washy on it. Does it count if it was wasn't actually that saccharine but still perceived as such?
- The original 1980's cartoons had this to an extent (lord knows the theme songs did), at least until the villains showed up. The Movie was probably the most diabetes-laden part of G1, even with the villains. (Y'know, the one with the ever-spreading, all-consuming, Hate Plague-inducing, eye- and mouth-spawning living ooze that is frequently compared to the Shoggoths from the Cthulhu Mythos.)
- It's mostly in the Direct-to-Video Generation 3 (early 2000's) that the My Little Pony cartoons acquired the reputation for tasting like diabetes. This generation contained, arguably, some of the cutest ponies in the show, and had a very feminine look towards it, as well as heart-warming friendship moments being used to their fullest. This got taken Up To Eleven when the already-cute characters were retooled into the "Animesque" style fans dubbed "G3.5". But even these two eras have their share of adventuring (in particular, the hot air balloon they take to the place they need to go always seems to end up with ponies needing to be saved from plummeting to their deaths, and never get into water in G3: the Inevitable Waterfall is a certainty!) Valid if it was big part of audiences feeling the franchise was such.
- Unintentionally subverted with one specific part of G3.5, Newborn Cuties, and not in a good way. They obviously try to go for this, but instead, the peculiar art style and poor animation leaves the "cuties" looking very unsettling. Behold.
Can't be played with so this seems like a unrelated complaint.
- Unintentionally subverted with one specific part of G3.5, Newborn Cuties, and not in a good way. They obviously try to go for this, but instead, the peculiar art style and poor animation leaves the "cuties" looking very unsettling. Behold.
- My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic from mere subject matter alone is a very adorable and sweet show, so there is no shortage of diabetes and Narm Charm is in abundance. But that hasn't stopped it from playing around and lampooning itself to lessen the diabetes. While the show has diven into the sugar sweetness with no hint of irony whatsoever, it will sometimes throw lampshades on this as a source of comedy. Fluttershy's cute shyness is sometimes played up for jokes. Pinkie Pie's singing and overly cheerful demeanor has irritated characters on many occasions, Spike mocks Twilight's excessively sentimental wrap-up in an episode, The Cutie Mark Crusaders react to Big Macintosh's and Cheerilee's sappy love talk with visible disgust, and Rainbow Dash is utterly terrified of extreme cuteness. Not an examples as this has broke the franchise stigma of being this such it achieved mainstream popularity/acceptance. Cut or worth noting it playes with this expectation as part of the series. If the latter should it just be added to the franchise wide examples saying it broke that?
Almost all the other examples have these issues? Should we just cut examples that don't mention the negative audience reaction? Or is this something needing a proper cleanup?
openSingle Issue Wonk
Rift Witch appears to have a Single-Issue Wonk with a YMMV.RWBY entry (Values Dissonance for Blake's Declaration of Protection to Yang), and historically has not been willing to engage in discussion about building consensus to address their concerns, thereby edit warring in the process. The timeline is as follows (I hope my links work):
- 4th February 2021: Rift Witch deleted
several entries, including the Values Dissonance entry, complaining that they're misogynistic.
- A few hours later, Psyga315 restores
all the entries back, stating they're not misogynistic, and it's about them acting "American" not "ladylike".
- A few hours later, Psyga315 restores
- 13th September 2021: Rift Witch again deleted
the Values Dissonance entry (but none of the others), this time stating that the entry is sexism and that they think it's unreasonable to expect Yang to stop being angry.
- 14th September 2021: I restored
the entry, stating that disliking an entry isn't a valid reason for deleting YMMV items, sent them a notification about deleting YMMV on the basis of disliking someone's opinion, and spotted that Nubian Satyress had also started
a discussion on the discussion page, arguing that Rift Witch's deletion does not address the audience reaction itself. I therefore also joined in the discussion page thread.
- A few hours later, Rift Witch deleted
it again, stating that it's not an example of values dissonance. They also responded to my notifier, accusing me of not reading their edit reason and declaring that the entry isn't Values Dissonance. Although I tried to get them to engage in a discussion they weren't interested (I have no problem with the mods reading the PM exchange between us). They also never joined in the discussion Nubian Satyress started either.
- A few hours further on, Zaptech restored
the entry telling Rift Witch that if they want to discuss removing it, they need to take it to the discussion page.
- A few hours later, Rift Witch deleted
- 20th August 2022: Rift Witch rewrote
the entry, stating that the entry doesn't belong there at all, but since people insist on it being there, they're going to rewrite it to remove the implication that Japanese men don't understand women.
For full disclosure, I have edited the entry on two occasions that were unrelated to these events (removing a parabomb note in September 2020 and a natter note in July 2022, different tropers involved each time). I don't know if that means I've also Edit Warred because the reasons were Administrivia-related rather than the entry itself, but I will accept the consequences if that is the case.
Edited by WyldchyldopenContentious issue, but: Columbus Whitewashing
So, uh. UsefulNotes.Christopher Columbus. I'm gonna try not to dive into the deep end of the modern discourse about him but skimming the page it does feel like it engages in some degree of objective misrepresentation/falsehoods about his activities.
The one that stands out to me is it claiming that the mistreatment of natives in his colony occurred without his knowledge after he left his brother in charge to continue his exploration, and the subsequent implication that he was rightly exonerated for it - AFAIK while there's arguments to be made about the degree of mistreatment he's responsible for it's accepted as historical fact that he was personally responsible for much of it (particularly the slavery); his brother simply escalated it to the point of outright brutality.
I'd just correct it myself but this is a highly contentious issue and it's entirely possible that I myself am wrong or misinformed in some way on some of this. I suspect that a deeper reading of the article to account for omitted details, bias, etc may be warranted. Not to mention an on-the-record discussion to show that the matter was handled with consideration rather than being knee-jerk Righting Great Wrongs.
For what it's worth, I checked the discussion page and there seems to have been a very brief discussion of the matter in 2012... where it was seemingly decided to stick with the "he was innocent and simply couldn't control his men" portrayal, which like I said is AFAIK considered factually incorrect regardless of one's opinions on him personally.
Edited by Dirtyblue929openIs WheelJackDude just ripping off other peoples' contibutions to a Lalaloopsy WMG?
So for the WMG page for Lalaloopsy we start with the classic theory trope that "the characters were reincarnations of humans that died horribly". Of course my Perky Goth self wanted to contribute because typing out ways people died that corelate with the character they are now was fun to me, but I noticed particular entries from Wheeljack Dude that were suspiciously similar to others' contributions.
One of my older entries:
- Scarlet Riding Hood and her little sister Cape always went to the woods late at night without asking. One night they were brutally mauled by a rabid wolf.
One of Wheeljack Dude's older entries, added later on:
- Kat Jungle Roar and her sister Whiskers always snuck in a large jungle without listening to their mother. One day they are found dead after a hungry lion attacked them.
(I changed mine to be more interesting later on, but I still felt I needed to bring that up.)
And a more recent entry of mine:
- Similar to Storm E., the Buttonettes (Keys Sharps 'N' Flats, Strings Pick 'N' Strum, and Sticks Boom Crash) did horribly offensive songs and tormented their own fans. The stage they were performing on one night collapsed.
And then a more recent entry of Wheeljackdude's, again added later on:
- Penny Dots 'N' Blots did twisted and offensive artwork and murals, and tormented her fellow artists. The art studio that she was in collapsed one day.
And there's a bit more in the history for it-
I'm not sure if ripping off other peoples' entries to a WMG is worthy of a report, but I still felt I had to bring it up. Am I overreacting, or...?
Edited by RedBerryBlueCherryopenEdit war on TOTK Character page
On May 14th, troper Codemon added this trope
to the Other Races subpage for Tears of the Kingdom.
- Ascended Fanon: Either that, or the biggest case of Contrived Coincidence in the series' history. Mineru appears to be heavily based on Yaraxonal from the fangame Hyrule Conquest (formerly Hyrule Total War.), who predates Mineru by a decade. Don't believe it? Compare them side
◊ by side
◊. It's not just their appearance; they are both thousands of years old Sages of Spirit who were sealed in stone, have a familiar relation to another ancient character (Yaraxonal is the wife of Senturon, who himself has some major overlaps with Rauru), share a color scheme of black, orange and gold, and their height of about two times that of Hylians. Given Tears of the Kingdom's developement team is composed of many younger and fresh developers, it's possible some of them happen to be fans of Hyrule Conquest and took some of its content as inspiration.
As it's a trivia trope, I removed it
citing as such in the edit reason. A few hours later, Codemon re-added it
with no edit reason.
openMisuse of italic markup
Over at AwesomeMusic.Veggie Tales (courtesy link to page's edit history
), FoxDog1234 added a zero-context example with a quote from the lyrics in script format in both italics and quotes. Since, per Text Formatting Rules, quotes in script format go in neither quotes nor italics unless they're a page topping quote,note Specifically, under "Quote Formatting", "Do not italicize the text of the quote itself, except parts of it for emphasis. Don't use anything else to indicate emphasis (except all caps and bolding, used sparingly); don't use apostrophes, underscores, slashes, [i][/i], or anything of that nature. Don't enclose the dialogue in inverted commas or quotation marks." I removed the quotes and italics while commenting out the example. FoxDog1234 went back and added context to the example, but also added back the italics (with additional formatting errors).
Permission to re-remove them?
openItTakesTwo2021 (continued) misuse?
- Crosses the Line Twice: The infamous part where Cutie the Elephant is murdered by the main protagonists is intended to be over-the-top Black Comedy in the spirit of a Monty Python sketch. As the rest of this page shows, to most players, it crosses the line once and then stays there. YMMV cannot be played with so just not an example if so.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Cutie's death scene was supposed to make Cody and May seem like selfish assholes, but given that Cutie is clearly an intelligent being who feels pain and was nothing but kind to them, the end result is that they come off less as merely self-centered jerks and more as sociopaths. 'Misuse as it was intentional
which it notes and UU only applies if for unintentional reasons. Note that the editor replaced there prior version
which seemed better as it gave different reasons they were unlikeable.
I've previously deleted the subverted part of Crosses the Line Twice as Natter and a Designated Hero entry similar to the UU, so taking here first, and since it might be an ongoing issue.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenMultiple issues
mattmcc appears to have multiple issues with adding ZCE entries, tropeslashing and some weird use of spoiler tagging, including sometimes spoiler tagging the trope name itself and placing spoiler tags into descriptions above the trope lists. Examples of all these can be seen on Characters.RWBY Blake Belladonna dated the 26th March 2023. When I tried to clean up some of this (such as removing the tropeslashing), they added it back, so edit warred as well. Other tropers have cleaned up some of this, but the tropeslashing is still on the page — can I go ahead and remove that?
Edited to add: they seem to have issues on other pages as well, such as removing commented out tags on WebAnimation.Murder Drones page (8th April 2023) without adding any context to stop the entries from being ZCE or lacking citation references.
Edited by WyldchyldopenMore Auto-Erotic Troping...
... as said.
Troper VicGeorge2011's
account proudly proclaims himself to be writer of Fanfic.Empath The Luckiest Smurf.
Said troper also made the fic's YMMV page
, under Ron the Death Eater
openQuestion About Fanfic Recs
Hello, am I allowed to rescind a fanfic recommendation I made because the fic itself was removed from Archive of Our Own. I see no point in leaving the recommendation there since there's no way to read the fic anymore.
I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be but I feel safer clarifying first.
openTaylor Swift-Kanye West incident at the VMAs
From Heartwarming.Real Life Other:
- At the 2009 MTV Video Music Awards, when Taylor Swift went up on stage to accept her Moonman for Best Female Video, she was rudely interrupted by Kanye West, who infamously declared that "Beyonce had the best video of all time!" So when Beyoncé herself wins the award for Video of the Year, what does she do? Rather than deliver the acceptance speech that she had prepared, she invited Taylor back on stage to finish hers.
- Harsher in Hindsight as experienced media reviewers spotted evidence that the "interruption" had been prearranged
. Beyonce's husband Jay-Z later revealed that it had indeed been staged.
- Harsher in Hindsight as experienced media reviewers spotted evidence that the "interruption" had been prearranged
Disclaimer that I am a Swift fan and not a West one, but I attempted to search for Jay-Z's "reveal" and Google turned up no results. The "experienced media reviewers" seem to be giving nothing but speculation and gossip, and even the comment section of that page calls them out on it.
Should the second bullet point be removed, then?
Edited by annieholmesopenDoctor Who WMG - guessing for future episodes on episode-specific pages Live Action TV
How do we handle tropers adding WMG for future episodes/seasons of a show to an episode-specific WMG page?
I'm specifically looking at WMG.Doctor Who 2022 CEN The Power Of The Doctor, which accompanies the equivalent recap page. Now that episode has screened (at least in the UK), all of the existing WMG has been marked as Jossed, Confirmed, not addressed in this episode etc.
However, the final cliffhanger leads into the three 2023 specials, which are very likely to get their own recap pages. And we're now getting tropers adding new WMG about the plots of those specials and the possible payoff for the cliffhanger.
My initial thinking is that this isn't a problem in the short term ... but as soon as those new episodes go out, adding any Jossed/Confirmed response to those guesses would be a problem. It's a Spoilers Off page, but even if they were tagged, my understanding is that a WMG page for episode #22 of a series shouldn't include any spoilers for episode #23 onwards?
So should we leave the WMGs about the next batch of episodes there indefinitely, move them once a more appropriate WMG page is created, or immediately delete them from the page?
(I did delete one on this basis, explaining my thinking in the edit reason - but more are now being added and I'm second-guessing myself)
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1open Edit to Fate/Stay Night character page constitutes vandalism? Videogame
In this edit
for the character page for Saber from Fate/stay night, user SteelDumpling replaced all instances of "Altria" (the character's official English name as of Fate/Grand Order) with "Artoria" (an alternate localization that is preferred by the fans and has been used in some localizations prior to Type-Moon coming down against it), even in instances where this is inaccurate.
I do not want to start an edit war so I have messaged the person requesting they revert the edit. In the event they do not, should I just do it myself?
Edited by Arawn999openCan edit history be cleared?
A while ago I added the author's name on the pages Frollo Freak and Back to the Frollo, as the author herself gave the info on her official sites where the fics are hosted, and her social media sites, which the aforementioned official sites link to. After learning that this action still counts as doxing, I removed the name from both pages, but they remain in the edit history. Is there a way to clear edit histories or remove those specific edits?
I am also aware that doxing is a bannable offense, and I will take any punishment as warranted.
Edited by FuyumotoopenSalvaged Story entries Film
On the YMMV page for the Black Panther film, several entries under Author's Saving Throw were moved to Salvaged Story:
- Following in the footsteps of the Vulture, the Grandmaster, and Hela, Killmonger was chosen as a deliberate attempt to create a sympathetic and memorable MCU bad guy after a string of widely-criticized and forgettable Generic Doomsday Villains. Given the amount of "Killmonger Was Right" memes currently circulating around the web, it's probably safe to say they succeeded and then some. Much the same goes for Klaue who became a fan-favorite as a Laughably Evil companion of Killmonger.
- The filmmakers have gone out of their way to avoid the continuity problems that have plagued the MCU. While the Marvel movies are widely praised, they have been criticized for Continuity Lock-Out and focusing more on setting up sequels. Black Panther functions as a self-contained story with almost no references to the previous film or characters outside of the news broadcast and Ross briefly recapping T'Challa's arc in Captain America: Civil War and the post-credits scene involving Bucky Barnes in Wakanda, thereby making it more accessible for casual fans.
- In the comics, M'Baku the Man-Ape is a savage, brutish Scary Black Man who dresses up as a gorilla, which brings to mind uncomfortable racist caricatures comparing black people to monkeys and apes. This movie doesn't use the "Man-Ape" moniker and downplays the gorilla imagery, while hitting him with a dose of Adaptational Heroism to turn him into an Anti-Villain who undergoes a Heel–Face Turn.
The problem is that none of these seem to fit the trope's current definition (which is about a problematic story element being explained) but rather focus on the film avoiding problems that previous entries had.
Edited by Javertshark13

YMMV.Know Your Meme
Thoughts? Is KYM even a tropeable work given it's not a story/narrative but a creator/content channel which doesn't warrant a YMMV or other such pages?