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opencwf123 and Self-Demonstrating Pages
cwf123
, among many other problems (like grammar and a weird Hilarious in Hindsight page), made three Self-Demonstrating articles for The Architect
, Vanessa Lutz
(whoever that is), and Hector Con Carne
. Now, I could've sworn that we were trying to cut down on the number of Self Demonstrating articles on the site.
I know that there's a thread on the forum, but there hasn't been any posts in it since March, so I want to see what I should do with the pages here.
Edited by ArctimonopenThatOneLevel question
Specifically, is there a "one entry per game" rule for That One Level? The page itself is a bit unclear on this.
openWord of Dante misuse?
- Many fans of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic outright insist that Luster Dawn, Twilight Sparkle's top student in the Distant Finale, is canonically the daughter of Sunburst and Starlight Glimmer (or sometimes Trixie). In canon, it's actually not stated who her parents are: Josh Haber (the episode's writer) implied they might be related, while series director Jim Miller outright rejected the idea as something that cheapened the scope of the show's world. They both conclude that fans can come up with whatever they want, though.
Jim Miller: In my head, it makes a lot more sense if she's just a random student not related to anyone we've already met. And, it's always super weird if everyone is related somehow. IMO, it makes the world of the show feel smaller.
- Word of Dante: Even on this very wiki, everyone operates on the assumption that The Black Mass (the primordial entity that later became Aku) was an Omnicidal Maniac trying to devour the whole universe, but this is not established at any point. In the one episode it appears, it is simply born inan explosion of some sort, flies off, then the gods show up to destroy it while it's still seconds old, and it unsucessfully tries to fight back in self defense. The fragment that landed on Earth did indeed devour any and all creatures that came near it, but for all we know it might've simply been trying to regrow to it's original size.
Word of Dante states it's when someone of repute but no official authority/connections to the work makes a statement that's treated by fans as canon. The first is misuse as it's all about official word and Fanon. The second I believe is misuse as last I heard policy is this wiki is not to be used a reputable source save for info about this wiki, or was that just for official citation.
Also I wonder if Word of Dante should be YMMV as by definition it lacks the official contentions to the work to make it Trivia and its definition, fans treating an unofficial source as canon, sounds YMMV as who/what's treaded as such seems to come down to subjectivity.
openShould "Quietly Cancelled" have a waiting period to prevent pre-mature misuse?
Self-explanatory, really. Since Quietly Cancelled got launched today, I'm concerned that there will be misuse of examples pre-maturally calling works on hiatus "cancelled". I think there should be a waiting period of sorts to make sure the works are actually cancelled before adding examples, but what do you think?
openAbout Akame ga Kill Anime
Can someone fix the character list for Night Raid and Akame, please? It is getting confusing. All I see is Akame herself, but not the rest of the Night Raid.
openMisuse of Old Shame for complaining?
On Trivia.Noah Caldwell Gervais, there's this Old Shame entry (posting it here because I'm not sure how much attention a Trivia page with two entries will get):
* OldShame: His opinions on the controversial ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUsPartII'' are this but not because of the opinion itself but because of the response it got due to him condemming condemning the game's detractors as closed-minded, entiltled entitled and/or transphobic. Many people took to the comments to attack and insult him, which caused him to enter into a depressed state that didn't allow him to write for a while.
Looking at the video itself (which I just rewatched, which got me reading NCG's page), in the comments he mentions that he regrets not considering criticisms trans critics of the character Lev made (specifically linking this article as another perspective
). He certainly notes that some critics were indeed driven by transphobia and misogyny, but makes no claim it was the only reason to criticise the game (as the fact he's got a 2+ hour video doing so up demonstrates), which would make it hard to regret doing so. Which makes the entry feel a bit shakey and an attempt to complain.
- "Since this video's release, I've gotten a lot of meaningful feedback about my segment later on with Lev. I really enjoyed Lev as a character, and wanted to offer a reading of Lev within the context of the game that would emphasize his importance in the script and his vividness as a character. However, the way I framed my argument was framed very poorly and steamrolled right over more nuanced critiques of the character from the transgender community. I'd like to apologize for being careless— I did mean well, and I wrote what I wrote out of an enthusiasm for the character and not an interest in speaking over more qualified voices.I'd like to recommend this article [link posted above] as a counter-perspective to the one I gave."
Either way, is this actually an example of OS? I thought that was supposed to be for works that a creator completely disavowed, and aside from the stickied comment I mentioned, there's no sign that's happened
Edited by Bisected8openSubpages for episodes
What If…? (2021) has two episodes so far, each one with a page in the recap namespace. Those episodes have their own YMMV and Trivia subpages. Is it correct, or should those items be moved to the YMMV and Trivia sections of the series itself?
openHow do we refer to characters with multiple pronouns?
I recently came across our page for Friday Night Fever, which has a bigender character, Taki. Nearly all of the examples regarding her constantly switch from using she/her and he/him in the same example, and it's honestly confusing. So that got me thinking: how do we refer to characters with multiple pronouns? Do we stick to one set page wide or just keep it consistent in an example itself (like referring to a character with they/he pronouns as he in one example for a trope, and they in an example for another trope)?
openPoorlyDisguisedPilot misuse?
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars had a couple, though it's not as evident as some given the show's anthology-style format.
- "The Gathering" through "A Necessary Bond" involve Ahsoka meeting a diverse group of young Jedi in training and helping them learn the ropes. None of the characters get another speaking role in the series, and it's very easy to imagine a TV show around them. One has to wonder if the involved Inferred Holocaust was a factor...
- "Secret Weapons" through "Point of No Return" is a completely self-contained mini-arc where the only main character to be present is R2, with everyone else being a crew of naturally kid-appealing droids and their commander.
Does Poorly Disguised Pilot require they produce the followup or Word of God they planned to? It seems speculative otherwise.
openMisuse of Mythology Gag?
i don't mean to call anyone out, i'm just here to learn from my own mistakes.
this bit i added to Sephiroth's Mythology Gag entry in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - 76 to 81 got removed (in bold):
with the following reason:
i'm just curious what my mistake was, since Mythology Gag doesn't seem like it's limited in scope to how mundane the reference is, just that the thing referenced isn't in the same canon/universe otherwise it'd be Continuity Nod. unless, of course, i missed something while skimming the article (that happens to me a lot, unfortunately).
Edited by FreecomopenWeird page organization
Curse Cut Short's subpages are organized not by media, but by type ( Another Character Interrupts, Self-Interruption, Cut to Another Scene, etc). It has no on-page examples that don't fit these internal subtropes. Some pages are so short, like CurseCutShort.Episode Begins, that I don't see why they even need their own page. There's also a page for CurseCutShort.Sound Effect Bleep...even though Sound-Effect Bleep is its own trope.
Is this okay or should we re-organize it? I know there was a trope organized similarly that was brought here a while ago, though I forgot the name.
open More on... A Serbian Film
Yeah, remember everyone's favourite Torture Porn documentary?
It turns out while the main page itself is left intentionally blank for a decade due to controversial content, there is still a Sandbox page for this film (EDIT: Over here). Which kind of defeats the purpose of... uh, NOT allowing the page in the first place?
What to do about this?
Edited by RobertTYLopenSelf demonstration on We Didn't Start the Billy Joel Parodies
Is the description of We Didn't Start the Billy Joel Parodies taking it too far?
openReligiousAndMythologicalThemeNaming and a Halo franchise example with possible spoilers Videogame
My main concern is how to write this so as to avert creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler. The Flood in Halo is very clearly named after the Genesis flood narrative, but how would I go about adding this in to the page without creating a Self-Fulfilling Spoiler since in the backstory, the Flood were effectively created as a means to purge the Forerunners, who retaliated by creating an Ark to preserve most species?
Edited by EclipseMTopenOutdated Foreign-Language Trope Pages
While doing some TRS Wick Cleaning for Boat Lights, I found a wick on the index of Spanish-language pages. It appears that many of those pages were never properly connected to the English-language version of the page, so TRS changes like making a page definition-only missed the Spanish version. For example, the Spanish-language page for Panty Shot (Es/Pantaletazo) still lists examples while the English-language version cut and forbade them.
Another example is Boat Lights (primary name Mismatched Eyes, now a disambiguation for various different-eyes tropes); the Spanish version (Luces De Semaforo) is still a trope with a description and examples.
I have posted in the Translation Efforts
thread about this (since I speak hardly any Spanish myself), and I've started connecting the Spanish pages to their English versions. Is there anything else that could/should be done?
open ReedRichardsIsUseless misuse?
- Retroactively happens in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic during the events of The Cutie Re-Mark when Twilight Sparkle and Spike both travel into the "Changeling Resistance Timeline" where they enter an Equestria where Chrysalis was never defeated. Both come across a La Résistance led by Zecora who has with her a Salve that is designed to forcibly strip a Changeling of their disguise when applied, and the two of them never bothered to ask Zecora for a jar to take back to reverse-engineer, or a list of ingredients to help make some back in the main timeline, or even ask their own Zecora if it was possible to make it themselves. This ended up biting them in the ass when The Mane Six, Spike, The Royal Sisters, Cadence, Shining Armor, and Flurry Heart all get captured by the main timelines' Queen Chrysalis and replaced by Changelings two seasons later.
This was added by Ohvist, which I removed citing Twilight had a spell to remove changeling disguises meaning it would be unnecessary/not enough to prevent what happened. Ohvist added it back with the addition of "While it was shown that Twilight could dispell a disguised Changeling by herself without the salve back in the events of A Canterlot Wedding, it was only because she knew they were possible Changelings, and not every Unicorn would know how to master the spell, and it still leaves the Pegasi and Earth Ponies vulnerable since they cannot cast spells to begin with."
I still think it's misuse as Reed Richards Is Useless is about not using fantastical things for other mundane problems, this is not using the fantastical thing for the fantastical problem it was originally meant for. There's also a whole lot of speculation or debatability with it (the salve would only be useful if one suspected one of being a changeling which wouldn't have avoided this as they figured it out on their own and the plot was rescuing them, we don't know how they were captured in the first place or any limitations of the salve, maybe Zecora couldn't develop the salve without changeling magic to practice with) I'm not sure if it's valid to move to another trope like Forgotten Phlebotinum. Should this be cut and/or moved to Head Scratchers?
openPrejudice Tropes self-demonstrating examples
Most of the tropes listed on the index Prejudice Tropes currently have a short, self demonstrating description of the trope, generally written from the perspective of someone who shares that particular prejudice. For several reasons, I wonder if this is really the best way to describe tropes of this nature. For one, descriptions written in such a manner sacrifice clarity in a similar way to Example as a Thesis, giving an example of the trope being described in place of a proper description thereof. Furthermore, there are some that definitely cross the line — the f-slur and t-slur cropped up multiple times — and that I find very hard to justify in this context. While I understand the intent, I worry that those newer to the site and less familiar with our standards (in particular Tropes Are Not Good and Prescriptive vs. Descriptive Language) could easily get the wrong idea from this page. Would it be a good idea to rewrite these examples for the sake of clarity and neutrality?
Edited by Mahoxyopen Unintentionally Unsympathetic proposal
There has been discussion in Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup about adding this example to UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:
- In "The Ending of the End", Discord was revealed to have impersonated Grogar and brought together the villains for Twilight Sparkle to defeat thus teaching her confidence, only for them to become a genuine threat. After being called out for endangering Equestria and redeeming himself by risking his life, Discord's turning the villains to stone, as they have proven so evil and irredeemable their prior punishments were insufficient, was met with approval from all the heroes. But "Grogar" had used implied death threats and their powers to force the villains into adding his plan that was possibly little different than what the villains did independently, the villains actions weren't worse then their previous evildoings, and were never given a chance to redeem themselves as Discord was. This caused many fans to consider Discord's punishing them as unfair given he forced them into a position where they would have been punished just as harshly even if they hadn't proven themself so irredeemable.
I asked
about putting a similarly written entry under Unintentionally Sympathetic, but a mod said there was too much Broken Base to say. Someone from cleanup argued even if US was deemed not to apply UU might. I'm skeptical but want to hear it out so this long standing debate can be resolved.
From YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 9 E 25 The Ending Of The End Part 2:
- Broken Base: Discord being the one to decide the villains' fate (and to perform it himself). Some feel this was a fitting way to make up for his actions seeing it as him using his powers for good to put a stop to evil, fixing the mistake he made by getting rid of the threat, while others feel that he had no right to punish them when he was responsible for all their crimes. There's also the fact that Tirek and Cozy Glow were already serving their sentences, and wouldn't have been in this position at all if he hadn't broken them out.
Is there any reason to give UU it's own entry as opposed to putting it under the BB? Is it fine if they are such separate pages? If BB potentiality disqualifies UU/US there is a lot of cleanup to do.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
openZettai Ryouiki's widespread ZCEs and back-and-fourth
For a long while now, Zettai Ryouiki has presented problem after problem to the wiki. Thread
after thread
after thread
has been made about it. Most recently, this thread
has mostly agreed it is a ZCE magnet that may need to be massively changed, if not cut. And yet, every time, nothing is done, or only superficial solutions like restricting it to A or S subtypes are implemented. But the problem of the ZCEs still remains. So, I made a post
at the end of said thread to revive it, but basically I want something to be done. I will probably do a wick check and take it to TRS myself, but I still want to hear your thoughts.

I came across Literature.Rai Kirah today while checking my watchlist updates. It's a recently created page made by indigoazure
.. The issue here is that, at the time of this writing, there's no description for the work whatsoever. All it has is, and I quote, "(Also commonly written as Rai-Kirah). A fantasy series of three books by Carol Berg." and then a list of the three books in the trilogy. There's a few issues with the tropes themselves, the most glaring being three tropes listed on one bullet and whose context was quotations direct from the book itself. I just flat out deleted those and commented out anything else blatantly zero context. (EDIT: The editor has fixed the three on one bullet tropes by putting at least two as their own tropes with context)
I've sent the page creator a PM about fixing the description, specifically linking to How to Create a Work's Page and quoting the relevant portion to make the point. I'm mostly posting here, too, to have everything "on the record" so to speak in case any further action is needed later.
Edited by sgamer82