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open About a work I made Webcomic
I would like to make a page for work I made on here. If I haven't violated any of the rules on the page (i.e. the work is tropable, i will not add subjectives/audience reactions/trivia/recommendations on the work, and I won't Entry Pimp myself), is it still considered Auto-Erotic Troping, therefore not allowing me to?
Edited by nonalienpersonyepopenRed Zone Cuba entries Film
The YMMV page for Red Zone Cuba has the following entries for Designated Hero and Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
- Designated Hero: The main characters are entirely unsympathetic, particularly Griffin. He is supposed to be viewed as a put-upon everyman who just suffers from poor impulse control, but is instead portrayed as a selfish, violent, and hypocritical murderer and rapist. When the work page describes Griffin as "one of the most disturbingly realistic portrayals of a sociopath in film", something went wrong.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Griffin was meant to be seen as a mostly decent person who was down on his luck and held back by a Hair-Trigger Temper, and what happens to him at the end of the movie was supposed to be tragic and thought-provoking. However, he does nothing even remotely heroic or altruistic at all throughout the entire story; anything he does that seems so (asking for water for a sick man in a POW camp, or treating the wife of said sick man nicely) is merely calculated to advance his own agenda. Griffin was supposed to have fallen beyond sympathy when he rapes a blind girl and murders her father, but he failed to establish any sympathy to lose by that point.
The entries don't cite any evidence that Griffin was meant to be sympathetic, and having seen the uncut film, it doesn't come off that way at all. He comes off simply as a Villain Protagonist who's driven by greed and gets his comeuppance at the end. No one in the film expresses sympathy for his death, and aside from grim music briefly playing when he's shot down, there's no hint of it being meant to be tragic. Also, his line that he wants to "go legit" is followed by him saying, "I don't want any bulls chasing me," so in context it's clearly Pragmatic Villainy rather than him wanting to redeem himself.
It's worth noting that Coleman Francis's films in general are dark and gritty, and tend to focus on unsympathetic characters, so this may simply be his Signature Style, and Griffin being the Villain Protagonist may have been mistaken for the film portraying him as the hero. Can these be cut?
Edited by Javertshark13openWall of Text entry Western Animation
The YMMV page for "The Ending of the End, Part 2" has this very long entry under Draco in Leather Pants:
- All three of the villains received this status in spades for their punishment at the end of the episode.
- Chrysalis, Tirek, and Cozy Glow being turned to stone as punishments caused backlash by defenders, saying that they didn't deserve such a punishment due to being forced by Discord as Grogar to commit said actions, and they weren't being given a chance by the heroes to turn over a new leaf throughout the episode and the previous one. What is largely ignored is the fact that what the villains did to Equestria was what they've always wanted to do ever since they appeared in the show, they were mainly forced by Discord to work together as a team instead of individuals to make their plans succeed, and they have stated and shown more than once that they are not interested in friendship or reforming themselves like when Chrysalis turned down Starlight's offer of reformation at the end of To Where and Back Again. And on the subject of the villains' punishments, they not only tried to murder the Mane Six and the other heroes, but also destroy everything that made Equestria what it was which included dividing the three pony tribes against one and other, which as a result almost made everything that the Mane Six accomplished in the entire series be All for Nothing. And considering that they almost came close with succeeding at destroying Equestria and the heroes and even presumably even creating a forever bad memory that the population of Equestria won't be forgetting for a long time, imprisoning the villains in stone would be for the best to prevent a tragedy like that from happening again.
- Cozy Glow was hit with this the hardest out of the three villains. Defenders felt she did not deserve the same fate as Tirek and Chrysalis, due to simply being a child and saying she could have been given a lesser sentence to serve her time, and demonizing Celestia, Luna, and Discord for doing it to her. This is despite the fact that Cozy was well aware of what she was doing the entire time, and her actions were still as bad as Tirek and Chrysalis since her actions to drain the magic in Equestria and claim it as her own was kind of the same plan as Tirek's. She has even proudly called herself a villain and shows no remorse for any of her actions, and in fact actively enjoys it.
The first entry is overly long and keeps re-hashing the same points, and I'm not sure if it even fits, since it's mostly just saying that fans thought the punishment was harsh. The second entry is redundant with the first, only focusing more on Cozy Glow specifically. I've brought this up on the Wall of Text cleanup thread twice but been ignored both times.
Edited by Javertshark13openPronoun inconsistency Anime
Kyubey's section
in the Puella Magi Madoka Magica character page has a few inconcsistencies with the pronouns used for him. Most sections use he/him, while some use they/them or it/its.
There's also the following example:
- Heel–Face Turn: This is very unusually subverted for many reasons. The first one is that following Madoka's wish and the rewriting of reality, he/they no longer needs to be a manipulative mastermind. Secondly he/they doesn't change in the slightest, he/they just doesn't have the motivation in this world. Thirdly he ultimately chooses to re-rewrite reality anyway out of greed in the movie and goes back to their old scheming ways.
And this:
- Your Approval Fills Me with Shame: Gives one on occasion, as far as he/she/it can actually express approval. The one he's speaking with definitely feels shame as a result.
In the anime, Kyubey refers to himself with "boku", and English supplementary material refers to Kyubey with he/him pronouns.
What do we do?
Edited by YuriHaru567openPossible Speculative Troping
Over on VideoGame.Five Nights At Freddys Security Breach:
- Foreshadowing:
- Gregory does not have a guest profile, no prior passes or merch, and starts the game already being chased by Vanessa. He also shows a surprisingly resourceful and ruthless streak, such as driving a car and using jumper cables in one ending and thinking of stealing the other animatronics' parts to upgrade Freddy with little guilt at the idea. While Vanessa and the animatronics bring up his family, Gregory never mentions anything of the sort despite being stuck in a dangerous situation without being able to contact anyone outside. Freddy is also the one who gives him the FazWatch, with no mention of a phone that could have an app with similar use installed. The one-star ending offers a potential explanation: he's shown sleeping in a box in an alleyway, with a newspaper as a makeshift blanket. This suggests he may have been homeless or otherwise significantly disadvantaged, and thus had to learn how to be independent to survive. He wouldn't have a guest profile or any passes beforehand because he probably can't afford any of it, so he most likely either snuck in or was brought in through unofficial means, possibly explaining why Vanessa was chasing him. He doesn't bring up anyone from outside because he possibly has no one, either, and everyone else just assumes he has a family looking for him.
- Alternative Character Interpretation:
- Gregory has a surprising amount of both resourcefulness and ruthlessness bordering on Troubling Unchildhood Behavior. He sees nothing wrong with damaging the other Glamrocks to upgrade Freddy, nor with the idea of lying to him about it. Combined with the fact he has no records, it calls a lot about him into question. This may be accounted for when you consider the one-star ending, which implies Gregory is a homeless child who may have had to learn how to be independent and possibly commit morally grey acts to survive.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Gregory, despite being the protagonist, has had some people wishing he'd get a bit more development. Besides his desire to survive, his eventual bond with Freddy, and his snarkier moments, he remains pretty much a blank slate throughout the game, not really growing or changing at all. Heck, the game itself frequently hints that there is more to Gregory than meets the eye, given the repeated mention of his missing personal records and the question as to how he got into the Pizzaplex in the first place without a guest profile. Also, the one-star ending hints at Gregory possibly being a Homeless Hero, which adds an extra layer to the game's story. But none of these plot points are ever followed up on, leaving Gregory as a rather run-of-the-mill Protagonist Without a Past.
For those avoiding spoilers for this game: tropers from the FNAF fandom have taken one of the endings for this game to mean that the player character Gregory is homeless, a runaway, or otherwise disadvantaged. And they have begun troping it as though it were a confirmed part of the game's official canon. Even though this alleged implication is not supported in any way by the game or Word of God, according to my present knowledge.
What's the policy for handling this?
Edited by JAG01openEdit War on YMMV/MushokuTensei
On YMMV.Mushoku Tensei, Tropers.Qubritz added the following
(bolded for emphasis) to a Broken Base entry:
- One of the most controversial aspects of the story is its very premise as a "Redemption Arc". The main problem with it stems from the possibility of "redemption" being used to justify horrible or terrible actions based on the idea that the perpetrator will "grow up" or "learn from it". This is further compounded by the fact that the behavior being condemned for is also "rewarded" in a sense, such as when Rudeus winds up marrying three of the women he once sexually-harassed, he and Eris wind up together despite her horrible abuse of him, and Paul winds up marrying the woman he had an affair with.
In retrospect, the entry should probably be reworded to further explain what the audience is split on regarding these points (basically, whether or not Rudeus deserves "redemption"note He is implied to have been a pedophile that masturbated to nude photos of his own niece before being reincarnated., whether the ending "rewards" people for crappy behavior, and whether or not it sends the wrong message about "redemption" in general). But, on top of that, the bolded section is a gross oversimplification of the actual issues with those characters. As I edited here
, the two are mutually toxic to each other.
Eris is introduced as a Spoiled Brat who is verbally and physically abusive to Rudeus when he is brought in to be her magic tutor. This is very much Played for Drama and not treated as amusing.
After he arranges a fake-turned-real kidnapping, she grows to like and respect him and from then on, the few times she does hit him, it is portrayed as the usual anime Tsundere/Double Standard: Abuse, Female on Male/Pervert Revenge Mode anime hijinks and absolutely Played for Laughs, as it's clear that the two of them are really into each other and everybody pretty much expects Rudeus to bed Eris at some point Her father even explicitly gives him permission in a moment of Deliberate Values Dissonance. (They're both like physically 12 at this point, btw, although Rudeus was a middle-aged man in his past life. And absolutely still sees himself as an adult.) At the same time, Rudeus makes an attempt to take off and steal Eris's panties while she's asleep, and after her father does arrange for her and Rudeus to go to bed together, Rudeus ignores an uncomfortable Eris after she changes her mind and tells him to stop until she is forced to hit him. (And I repeat, Eris is about 12 at this time, while Rudeus is a 30-something implied pedophile in the body of a child.)
The "Eris is the unambiguous abuser toward Rudeus" aspect of their relationship literally doesn't last longer than the first full episode she's introduced (in the anime). The majority of their screentime features the two of them being basically flawed, awkward people, and one of them being too young to be attempting the relationship they have. Even if we accept that Eris is an abusive brat, and is still pretty violent after she catches feelings for him, he is still mentally an adult, while she is a child.
NOTE: I'd also like to state that, after my first edit, Qubritz agreed that "mutually-abusive" was a better way to describe their relationship. Then, shortly afterwards, he suddenly sent me a PM out of the blue asking to chat, which quickly turned sour after we had a disagreement about the portrayal of a fictional character, and he turned pretty hostile.
Then, after I blocked him, he re-added
the bolded section. Again, after previously agreeing that "mutually toxic" was the best way to define their relationship.
openFena = Wasted character? Anime
Ok, with Fena: Pirate Princess finally over, I gotta ask: does the titular character really qualify for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character? Her entry in the YMMV page reads:
"Fena herself, despite being the main and title character. All throughout the series, Fena is rarely, if ever, allowed to actually do anything on her own, and it actively ignores opportunities to let her grow as a person or do anything that doesn't involve getting kidnapped, having the plot explained to her, or being saved by other people. Any attempt at letting her do something on her own is handwaved away, such as when she leads the party to where the coordinates are in the underground tomb, not because she herself does it, but because a mysterious voice said so. She's basically a Pinball Protagonist with little to no agency in her own series, and more than a few people noticed this.
"
1. Fena is the protagonist and by definition, she can't get wasted because we follow the story from her perspective. 2. TWAPGC is "this character was insufficiently developed or improperly explored", not "I didn't like the direction this character went through."
So, what do you think?
openTrope Feedback Request
Me and ~username2527 have a disagreement over three tropes I've recently removed from the Total Drama character pages and would like feedback to resolve it.
- Screaming Gophers: Justin
- Narcissist: He's always admiring his physique, and seems to carry a mirror with him everywhere he goes.
I changed this to pride because the trope description states that just being vain is not enough. And Justin lacks any of the detrimental aspects of narcissism, such as how once he thinks he's not beautiful anymore (and while he's vain, he's also a professional model, so his looks matter), he panics for a bit, but then just tries other things to make himself count and kinda goes with the flow.
Username 2527's argument is that he "has a sense of self importance and need for attention and admiration such examples include him frequently taking his shirt off to flash people, posing for the camera and he felt very upset when Lindsay and Beth stopped paying him any attention, believing that he was becoming ugly because the girls weren't gushing over him anymore."
- Race Lift: I moved the instances that concern prototype designs to What Could Have Been. Just to be sure, is Race Lift for adaptations only or do prototype designs also count?
- Toxic Rats: Lightning
- The Bad Guy Wins: In his ending of "Brain vs Brawn: The Final Showdown". Granted, the finale gave us a good few reasons to give him sympathy, too...and all of them are bad, and worst of all, he keeps the prize money to himself. Jo was most displeased.
As far as I'm concerned, A.) not a character trope and not a characterization-relevant event, and B.) very disputable example text.
There's also a C., which is relevant to my removal of the The Bad Guy Wins from the main page too. From what I understand from the trope description, the trope is only in effect in case of "complete and ultimate triumph for the villain". But every time a villain wins in TD, there's a catch, whether that is that they don't get the prize money in the end, that they get maimed, and/or that the finale reframes them as "not so bad". Lightning ends up badly injured (he's advised to spend the money on recovery) and there's a note that while winning prevents his relationship with his father from getting worse, it's not going to improve it. Meanwhile, the other finalist is leaving unharmed with a new outlook on life, new possibilities, and new friendships to enjoy.
So, the question is, is The Bad Guy Wins literally The Bad Guy Wins, or does the win need to be a triumphant one?
open YMMV Pokemon Journeys/2019 Anime issue: Jackpot21 versus Franchise Original Sin Anime
...Yes, I know, but this is a trope I really stand for, stand on, and I want to fix it without starting an edit war.
Okay, so here's what Jackpot
removed.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/PokemonJourneysTheSeries
...
- Franchise Original Sin:
- Ash has had a co-lead before, most famously in the form of Dawn. At several points Dawn would take the lead as the focus character even in the midst of what might be considered an Ash focused storyline, such as during the Maylene episodes where she took a lead in roughly half of the four episodes. Fans have more problems with Goh doing this than Dawn due to it being perceived as more often and more intrusive to Ash's focus.
- It has been in Ash's nature at several points to have the course of the journey dictated by those around him more than his own, notably with May and Dawn's Contests and Serena's Showcases. However this is perhaps the first series where such a occurrence has been widely criticized and disliked by a sizeable and vocal portion of the fanbase, with Goh's goals tending to dominate a large chunk of episode over Ash's being a frequent issue with such fans. Possible reasons for this being Goh's captures often occurring in episodes that would have once been considered filler thus giving the fans a feeling that Goh gets more focus than he actually is intended to, Goh's goal being relevant more frequently than the female companions and thus aggravating fans more, or just the fact that Goh's status as a designated co-lead means that any imbalance in focus is more tangible to the fanbase.
...
This is Jackpot's given reason for removing it.
...
Dawn isn’t classified as a protagonist but as a traveling companion. The difference between her and Goh is that Dawn’s focus episodes were spread out and didn’t overshadow Ash’s journey, usually involved competing in Contests, bettering herself as a Coordinator, or had to do with her Pokémon, whereas with Goh’s focus episodes, they tend to happen every few episodes and would more often than not be about a specific Pokémon that he’d catch at the end of the episode. Also, how did Ash’s companions dictate his journey? Most of the Contests or Showcases were on the way to whatever Gym he’d challenge next. That’s far different from Goh dragging him around to whatever location he found out a specific Pokémon will be at or a specific event taking place. ...
I am very familiar with the Pokemon fanbase. I am aware of how the fanbase is and what the show is like for twenty years, and what it is now. I am aware of Goh is seen, and I am able to look at it historically.
Dawn was treated as a Co-Lead. In the opening of DP anime episodes, it is the 'adventures of Satoshi (Ash) and Hikari (Dawn). May, Iris, Serena, Misty, etc did not get this. The only one who gets that is Goh.
As to the point about direction, at several points in the series the company diverts their path to go to places that are contest or showcase based (For example, in Kalos Ash does this for some of Serena's later performances)
Also, and I suspect this is the most important, this is YMMMV. Your Mileage May Vary. I don't think the edit removal given really works as that argument is more for 'yes or no' tropes versus opinion tropes. Jackpot removed it more on 'I don't agree with it' lines, which strikes me as problematic for YMMV tropes, especially as Goh's issues brought up are a commonly held opinion on many sites like Bulbargarden and Spacebattles and the point of 'being something in the originals' is used in debate there and acknowledged as such.
Please help me return the trope to YMMV Journeys. I added it originally so I cannot without risking an edit war (while I added it back in August 21 so I have no idea if that makes a reversing edit two and a half months is the edit, remove, edit definitions or not.)
Edited by KrspaceTopenFan Works and Recursive Fanfiction getting mixed with source material
I've been told that Fan Works aren't to be discussed on pages for source material, and fan works aren't exempt from this, not allowing Recursive Fanfiction to be discussed on the source fan work's page. What I'm worried about, however, is works with communities where Fan Works - and even Recursive Fanfiction - are closely associated with each other to the point of crossovers between Fan Works being common, and the content of fan works (recursive or not) even impacting the perception of the source material.
To give a specific example, Friday Night Funkin': Corruption is a Game Mod of Friday Night Funkin' well-known for recursive Game Mods that involve characters from other existing Game Mods (whether they be characters invented for a mod, or characters from pre-existing works as portrayed in a specific mod) dealing with the main conflict of Corruption. While some stuff I think I know how to handle from past experience (such as removing the Drinking Game subpage's section on recursive Corruption mods), one thing I don't fully know how to handle is certain examples and bullets on the YMMV subpage that allude to recursive mods and the base Corruption mod (such as a "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny example which describes the reception of recursive Corruption mods affecting the reputation of Corruption itself).
While I am wondering about the mixing of source material, Fan Works, and Recursive Fanfiction in a broader sense, I'm especially curious how to handle scenarios where reception towards a work is especially affected by fan works (including when such happens between a fan work and recursive fan works).
Edited by BrashBusteropenEdit War on Game-Breaker / Genshin Impact
Courtesy link here
- September 14, 4:29 PM: Cauchy Rerun When added this entry about the Raiden Shogun with this edit reason: "After seeing the latest Abyss stats, in which a hefty amount of teams involved the Shogun in some way, and seeing the Shogun's performance with the "national team" (in which she appeared to completely REPLACE Sucrose/Chongyun in this iteration,) I believe she does a good enough job to land herself here. Edit as needed"
- Despite the element she lords over suffering several issues, the Raiden Shogun/Ei still performs a fantastic job as a sub-DPS and Energy supplier, fitting for her title as the Electro Archon. Her Elemental Skill, Transcendence: Baleful Omen, functions like a slightly faster version of Fischl's Nightrider, except instead of firing every second, the turret instead inflicts a bit more Electro damage with everyone's attacks every 0.9 seconds, be they through the effects of Bursts, Skills or otherwise. This allows her to function as a much more effective way to set up Electro reactions, especially with Catalyst characters such as Barbara or Yanfei. Meanwhile, her Burst, Secret Art: Musou Shinsetsu, is the real star of the show. For around 7 seconds after an initial slash, Ei takes control of the Shogun and uses the Musou no Hitachi to perform a different standard attack string. This generates a total of 5 particles minimum throughout its duration, allows Ei to set up tons of Electro reactions, since the Burst's attacks all deal heavy Electro damage, and the first slash hits like a truck to boot. When paired with her second Constellation, it gets even more bonkers, as the Burst's standard attacks now ignore enemies' defenses, letting her shred through entire crowds of mooks like wet paper. Due to the nature of her Skill, she also generates Energy for teammates at blistering speeds; good thing for her, too, as both the initial slash and altered attack chain get more powerful depending on how many teammates used their Burst beforehand. With a high enough Energy Recharge (made easier by her Ascension stat being Energy Recharge,) she can be such a good battery that the rest of the team can use Burst upon Burst upon Burst, even the costly 80 Energy ones such as Pyronado, which in turn gets the Shogun to max power faster.
- September 17, 12:53 PM: Stage7-4 commented out the entry with this edit reason: "Hiding this for now, as I'm not convinced the Raiden Shogun is a gamebreaker. Most Genshin analysis sites list her as just average, listing the weaknesses of electro, the importance of her C2, and her field time demands. While yes she's seeing a lot of abyss use right now, the newest character being popular isn't extraordinary. If and when this gets added back, spoilers regarding Ei will need to be removed."
- October 18, 11:03 AM: Cauchy Rerun When uncommented the entry with this edit reason: "Raiden Shogun is one of the most-used characters in the newest iteration of the Abyss, after being used a lot when she appeared as well. It appears she's here to stay in the meta."
Based on Cauchy's edit reasons, I suspect that they're showing favoritism towards a particular character and are trying to shoehorn their bias without discussion. Edited by DivineFlame100
openEverybody Hates Hades question
Everybody Hates Hades is about mythological death gods being depicted as more evil in adaptations right?
As the examples have several examples like Hell Girl, Everybody loves large chests, heart strikers and the dungeons and dragons stuff seems to use original villains who aren't based on anything.
Plus some examples just use Death itself as a concept being portrayed as a bad guy. Which I'm not sure is correct either ?
openPreviews too recent to add?
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic IDW Issue 100 To 102
- Author's Saving Throw: After Discord being white washed and made a wimp in comparison to the title villain in the Cosmos Arc drew much ire from fans, his pre-redemption self is once again depicted as being as cunning and monstrous as he was originally depicted. Namely, he manipulated no less than four countries into going to war with the Knights of Harmony's homeland and saw them as 'new toys' when they showed up.
- It's the Same, So It Sucks: The fact that it was caused by Discord again likewise didn't help with most fans getting annoyed writers keep making these crisises his fault. It's only alleviated that this one was at least before his Heel–Face Turn and not a deliberate action as in the TV Finale.
This is from the 3-page preview, it's releasing in a week. Does this means the AST violates it being no prerelease and/or the ITSSIS better fits Tainted by the Preview (I think it's unlikely there's room in the comic for the rest to change these but it's still possible).
I also ask if It's the Same, So It Sucks is the best fit for such complaints as half the entry is noting key differences and the AST notes some are happy with this villainy. I'd say cut for now as too soon to say how it will play out/go over in the final product. Maybe Never Live It Down or similar would fit better as the complains are less about similarities/tired cliches than it bringing up memories of something contentious despite very different and mitigating circumstances that are otherwise well received.
openAssPull misuse?
The following (spoiler-heavy) Ass Pull example was deleted from YMMV.Sly Cooper Thieves In Time as it had the following Foreshadowing:
- Ass Pull: The reveal of Penelope's Face–Heel Turn comes out of nowhere nor fits what's been established. She wanted to eliminate Sly Cooper (and possibly Murray) for holding her genius boyfriend Bentley back, it being implied she only "loved" Bentley out of planning to use him for making billions in weapon designs and/or world domination, and is shown to be a massive scheming sociopath. The previous game portrayed Penelope as a straight-up Nice Girl even compared to the other thieves Sly teamed up with, guilt-ridden when Murray was captured due to her plan, and despite seeing Bentley's genius firsthand only showed romantic feelings toward him after he rescued her from pirates. She even held a genuine crush on Sly for most of the game. Even in this game, Sly had retired from crime by this point and thus wouldn't be holding them back; in fact, Penelope giving time travel to Le Paradox causes Bentley to regroup the Cooper Gang and leads directly to Sly un-retiring, the opposite effect of what she supposedly wanted. While there was foreshadowing such as her disappearance prior to the beginning of the game and the mouse emblem throughout the level where the twist is revealed, nothing in this game or Honor Among Thieves hinted she's angry and bitter at the Cooper Gang instead of being held against her will and forced to assist Le Paradox.
- Foreshadowing: There are several hints that she is the Black Knight:
- The title of the episode itself "Of Mice and Mechs" is a subtle hint of what the chapter is all about: Penelope, a mouse, created the machines and turned against the Cooper Gang.
- The Black Knight's armor has what looks like an icon of a mouse on it, which turns out to be Penelope herself.
- When Bentley researches information on the Black Knight, he finds no information. In the same Episode beforehand, Penelope is brought up again as Bentley wonders where she is once again. Penelope is in the medieval era, disguising herself as the Black Knight.
- This isn't the first time that Penelope went under an alias with the word "Black" in the title. The last time was in the third Sly game under the alias "The Black Baron".
- The text color of the Black Knight is purple, the same color of Penelope.
The Ass Pull wasn't their Face–Heel Turn which was foreshadowed, but it was their motives and personality behind it which contradict everything shown/established about them the prior game and seemingly the flimsy explanation this game gives. Is that not enough to count? Character Derailment and Fan-Disliked Explanation are already listed under their respective pages covering this, those or and anything else a better fit for this issue?
openEdit War?
So on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice DogOnRollerSkates added
this Broken Aesop example:
- Broken Aesop: Batman's initially portrayed as having lost his way by developing into brutal, merciless killer. However, even after he has a Heel Realization, he's still shown indulging in the same kind of behavior that was previously portrayed negatively. The fact that Zach Snyder has made comments seemingly defending his killings only further muddies up the issue.
Then MasterHero removed
it with a link to a video as an edit reason, which is a bad edit reason, but then DogOnRollerSkates re-added
it without discussing it the edit reason of "You can’t just attach a separate video to justify cutting a trope, if you wish to do so state the reasoning yourself and see if it stands. And given the point this trope brings up has been repeatedly discussed since release and is even mentioned elsewhere on this page, it’s odd that it wouldn’t be here in the first place." Which while I agree with, the latter part has nothing to do with the first part.
Is this an Edit War?
Edited by BullmanopenValues Dissonance entry Anime
The YMMV page for Monster has a Values Dissonance entry saying, "Asking women to smile has become very frowned upon since the series was made." The troper who added this is now suspended, and it doesn't elaborate at all. I've seen the whole series, but I can't remember what specific moment this is referencing, and the comment itself doesn't make sense without more of an explanation.
Edited by Javertshark13openOdd YMMV point removal Videogame
While browsing around, I found that this point was removed from YMMV.Super Mario Odyssey by The Living Drawing:
- Sacred Cow: Super Mario Odyssey quickly reached this status much like its sister game The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. The Mario franchise in general is a very strong Sacred Cow for Nintendo, and with Odyssey bringing the series back to artistic greatness and having few to no argued flaws, a vast majority of the Mario and Nintendo fandom holds the game in very high regard.
Now, that wouldn't bother me too much — the Broken Base point on the same page notes that it's gotten a fair amount of criticism and debate over the years regarding whether or not it has too many collectibles. What does grab my attention, however, is the edit summary, which reads "Game is very frequently bashed and seems to be seen as one of the weakest 3D Mario games nowadays." I haven't actually seen any of this myself, both in Nintendo-centric and more layperson-oriented spaces, and from what I could glean, it's still very well-regarded despite the content overabundance debate, which makes me wonder if this is someone mistaking a Vocal Minority for general consensus and/or editing solely based on their personal opinion of the game. Should the point be reinstated, given that, or is there a better way to go about it? Edited by bowserbros
openIs this plagiarism?
The first paragrapgh of DEATH BATTLE! S08E12 - DIO VS Alucard is identical to the intro part of the show (see transcript
from Death Battle Wiki). The rest of the article doesn't match perfectly, but still too close IMO. For example, this is on our Recap page.
"Imagine, if you can, someone so wicked, so vile, so monstrous that the sheer magnitude of their villainy literally destroys the universe. You would think it would be the big D himself, but it was him, Dio. Born a penniless street rat in the slums of the mean streets of Victorian London, Dio Brando was weighed down by poverty and his abusive alcoholic father."
And here's on Death Battle Wiki.
"Wiz: Imagine, if you can, someone so wicked that the sheer magnitude of their unholy dickishness literally destroyed the universe.
Boomstick: You might think they'd have to be no less than the devil himself. But it was him, Dio.
Wiz: Born a penniless street rat with a cunning mind in the slums of Victorian London, Dio was humiliated by his poverty and abused by his alcoholic father."
openAre currently not-present music tracks allowed in Awesome Music pages?
I was browsing some work subpages, including Awesome Music, and wanted to add some entries. Problem is, the entries are of music that was once in the work or is in a sister project, but aren't in the work itself as of today. Are Awesome Music examples like these allowed? And why?

Greetings, fellow tropers. There's a question I'd like to ask.
The next thing I'd like to do in the wiki is to crosswick trope examples into the Mario Party article. However, when I checked the Related tab, I noticed that many of the redirects (namely those of the individual Mario Party games) have wicks, meaning that they pertain examples that are specific to individual installments in the series. For example, Mario Party 2 has 27 wicks, while Mario Party 3 has 29. Between this and the possibility that many of the 1197 direct wicks to the parent series page may be referring to only certain installments rather than the series as a whole, I was wondering if it would be okay to create work pages for the individual Mario Party pages, which would give home to the redirects' wicks and also limit the example section of the parent page to tropes that apply to most or all games.
Having myself played the second, fifth, seventh, ninth, and Super installments (and currently having Superstars on my wishlist), I could further contribute to the troping of their contents whenever possible: even though nearly all MP games have the same gameplay formula, they still have unique elements in the boards, minigames and (however minor) story premises.
For reference, all the Mario Kart articles have their own individual pages, same with all the New Super Mario Bros. pages.
If the answer to the question is no, I'll respect the decision and then proceed to simply crosswick examples into the parent page, in the hopes that it won't exceed the size limit. Thank you in advance.