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openReclassification of the AK-12 from Rare to Cool Guns
In light of the fact that Russia has finally managed to adopt the AK-12 into mainline service, should it be moved from Rare Guns status and into more conventional Cool Guns status?
The actual example itself also highlights this fact, so I question the current validity of its "rare" status.
Edited by TsierraopenOverlapping character pages due to misnamed work Web Original
Transformers: War for Cybertron is sharing its character page with the unrelated Transformers: War for Cybertron because someone misnamed the former. The show is actually called Transformers: War for Cybertron Trilogy (also, I'm not sure if it counts as Web Animation if it's a Netflix original, since Castlevania isn't considered web animation, and War for Cybertron calls itself an anime).
Can I move it? And if yes, should it be to Transformers War For Cybertron Trilogy, Transformers: War for Cybertron Trilogy or Transformers War For Cybertron Trilogy?
openDubious Trope Namers Western Animation
TropeNamers.The Simpsons lists Glove Slap and The Dog Was the Mastermind. Glove Slap seems like too generic a term to be named by The Simpsons, while TropeNamers.Video Games lists Silent Hill 2 as the trope namer. The Dog Was the Mastermind page itself says in the description that the Silent Hill 2 joke ending is the Trope Namer in the description and the video games folder, while also saying in the Western Animation folder that the trope is named after the Simpsons episode "Beyond Blunderdome". "Beyond Blunderdome" aired in 1999, while Silent Hill 2 came out in 2001. SimCity is also listed as the Trope Namer for Not in My Backyard!, while according to Wikipedia, the term dates back to at least 1980.
open Wiki/VsBattlesWiki
A page for Vs Battles Wiki was created today. The main purpose of that wiki is to categorize various characters by their powers, strengths, and weaknesses and pit them against each other — think DEATH BATTLE! as a wiki and with way more people involved.
The page has only been live for a few hours and already it's filled with tropes about the wiki itself and its users. Assuming the actual content of the wiki is enough to trope, is it worth it to keep the page around?
Edited by Crossover-EnthusiastopenFanfic examples are not general violations?
- A good number of Spuffy fanfics focus on rewriting the largely very depressing season 6, bumping up the healthier and more amicable relationship dynamic for Buffy and Spike that developed in season 7 sooner and undoing all the angst their Destructive Romance caused for both of them. Some of them even make a point of letting Tara live on top of it.
- Many The Hobbit fics change canon events so that none of the main characters die during the Battle of Five Armies. Sometimes this is done by Bilbo or one of the dwarves being sent back in time; other times, the why and how of everyone surviving is left vague in a "look, canon had a helluva depressing ending and we all want to read something Lighter and Softer, so let's assume that everyone who died was just injured and pulled through, okay?" way.
- Many fans were not happy that Starlight Glimmer was Easily Forgiven at the end of the Season 5 finale. Some have taken it upon themselves to write fanfics where she receives proper comeuppance for her actions.
- In Step Right In and Start Again, because of Starlight's tampering with the time spell in the original episode, she has trapped herself in a permanent time loop where every day she reappears in Twilight's castle with no memory of the previous day, awaiting her punishment from Twilight and the Mane Six. It got a fix fic in the form of Starting Over Again
, where Twilight creates a magic crown for Starlight to wear that stores and retains her memories as she goes through each time loop. When she realizes that she is now immortal and will outlive every living thing in existence, Starlight devises a potion of eternal youth and gives it to her friends and the rest of Equestria to use. Everypony becomes an immortal alicorn, the races of Equestria explore and colonize the galaxy, and Starlight lives to the end of the universe with her friends, where her time loop is finally broken and she transforms into an alicorn like everyone else. The story ends with a new universe forming, with every character we know and love being present to watch it.
- In Step Right In and Start Again, because of Starlight's tampering with the time spell in the original episode, she has trapped herself in a permanent time loop where every day she reappears in Twilight's castle with no memory of the previous day, awaiting her punishment from Twilight and the Mane Six. It got a fix fic in the form of Starting Over Again
I worry these violate Examples Are Not General unless it lists at least one example of such fic.
Relating, most of the Starlight Glimmer examples were deleted as "evenge fics at best, and accusation fics at worst. If they truly were fix fics, they would have actually fixed what the author perceived as a problem, but instead they made them worse." Was that valid? How can we tell where it crosses to whick for and are they incompatible? And if Starlight getting karma un-fixes the Season 6 finale where's she's essential to it's happy ending, what then?
Mostly I'm asking if listing genres of fanworks per fandom need specific examples to be valid?
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenA weird fixation on crossovers
It's somewhat harder to explain, but the user Sonicfan9988
seems to only edit to throw in a lot of these odd crossover references. The problem, however, is that he's pushing them outside of WMG in things like the actual YMMV sections. A notable one is YMMV/PokemonBlackAndWhite
where they're pushing completely strange theories under Hilarious in Hindsight. While the WMG'ing in itself is fine, they should not be messing with YMMV tropes that make no sense whatsoever.
It's notable that he tried to remake the crossover page in general, and then suddenly added the same page(some weird Sonic crossover) on Darth Wiki. It's a pretty clear fixation and agenda-based entry pimping at this point.
Edited by IreneopenEdits to YMMV/TheForceAwakens Film
I noticed on The Force Awakens that Clint Rider deleted a bunch of articles/commentary criticizing the identification of Rey as a Mary Sue as well as added some equivocating language that "In general, there are valid argument that can be made either way, but are likely to still attract criticism."
In general, he basically deleted everything criticizing criticism of he movie, especially if directed against MRA types. And changed some entries to be more critical toward the movie.
His edit reason is "What "controversy?" Glorified muckrakers making clickbait headlines aside (And the Fury Road boycott never happened, the only evidence of its existence was said muckrakers who are known for lying), Furiosa got next to no criticism. Also, I don't see the point of actually including Waid and Del Toro's comments as their own thing- the point is already made enough as is."
Edit- Incidentally, was looking at some of their recent edits and while the example itself probably violated The Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, on Ghostbusters (2016), there was an entry about how the attacks on Leslie Jones by Milo Icantspellhislastname and his followers finally got him kicked off of twitter, he deleted the entry and gave this edit reason: "Debatable, given how Leslie Jones has a lot of skeletons in her own closet, especially in relation to doing the exact same things Milo did. If you wanna say stuff like that, then politely take it to your tumblr."
So yeah, my MRA alarm is going off.
Edited by Hodor2openA Review Series that Doesn't Exist and some Possible Self-Promotion Web Original
There is a review series called Movie Dorkness on Agony Booth. The page for it, however, was littered with some references to a so-called ascended fanboy called the "Professor Detective". According to the edits, this person has their own review show and is a fan of the host of Movie Dorkness, and indeed, there's a page for said show. Only the show doesn't exist. The page for Professor Detective mentions a You Tube account, but I found no videos by any user under that name. It mentions a Tumblr, but I found no such Tumblr bearing that name. And to top it all off, the edits done to both pages were done by a user named Professor Detective. I edited out some mentions of the person in the Trivia page for Movie Dorkness, but I'm wondering if this is possible some kind of self-promotion for some anonymous troper?
Edited by AdricDePsychoopenAbby Cadabby Live Action TV
From PeripheryHatedom.Live Action TV:
- Showing that history can indeed repeat itself, Abby is currently getting the same treatment as Elmo, mainly from the generation of young adults and teens that grew up watching and fell in love with Elmo. Abby's popularity with the older fanbase is a Broken Base—some find her a refreshing change from the two decades of Elmo (although how long this will last before they start getting annoyed by her remains a question), while others still don't care and still want the focus to be back on Big Bird and the Muppets (and human characters) of their time. The root cause of the hatedom here is The Generation Gap combined with a Nostalgia Filter, combined with a heaping dose of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.
openOvershadowed/commenting out misuse?
This is currently commented out under OvershadowedByControversy.Web Original:
- YouTuber and blogger Lily Orchard (formerly known as Lily Peet) was once known most for media analysis reviewing children's animation. However, she picked up an extremely negative reputation from controversies ranging from her extremely vitriolic coverage of the shows she reviews, her highly toxic behavior on-and-off platform—including her falling out with joshscorcher and the break up of her engagement to artist Lizzy Orchard—and a fanfic she wrote that contained explicit sex between adults and children. None of this would compare to the 2023 accusations by Lily Orchard's sister Courtney, who accused Lily of having sexually abused her when they were children. Orchard would release a video in May 2024 where she directly denied the allegations
and detailed her abusive childhood, including countering the incest arguments by saying it was Courtney who initiated the abuse, and also addressed some surrounding controversies about herself. Either way, the allegations of pedophilia, incest, and sexual assault have come to define Lily Orchard's online reputation far more than her actual content or opinions.
It was deleted Dec. 4th per cleanup
citing "Lily Orcahrd ultimatly attracts too many contraversies for one to outshine the rest". A separate troper added it back but commented out
citing "Looking at the cleanup thread, Lily still counts, its just unclear what specific controversy overshadows here. Commenting out until a consensus is reached"
I believe it was deemed misuse of commenting out to sneak in entires that violate rules like this does as written. So should it be deleted as misused as written and or replace with a not saying not to add them without forum approve (which would be required here given the connection caused)? Or what?
openNeed some clarifications on what counts as "Unilateral" Large-scale changes nowadays.
I've read this Administrivia page out of curiosity at first, but then I noticed entry #34 which says the following:
:34. unilateral
- Hi there. It looks like you've made a major change to [page] without discussing it beforehand. Large-scale changes, such as splitting off subpages, rearranging content, or altering the definition of a trope, require consensus to enact. In the future, please remember to discuss these things in the proper venue, whether it be Ask The Tropers, the discussion page, or a forum thread.
Does this mean all "Large-scale changes" will risk the editor receiving a warning or a "unilateral" edit notifier? Or are there times when a troper is allowed to make Unilateral Large-Scale changes without the risk of getting reported or notified?
- AFAIK, splitting a page if it gets too long is a very common thing to do in this wiki for years now, to the point where it's "recommended" so as to avoid the page from having any difficulty loading on old browsers or devices.
- I am following a lot of pages and I've seen tropers splitting off example lists into subpages but without providing any links in the edit reasons to prove that the action was "discussed" beforehand... But now, reading the Administrivia page implies it's "mandatory" to have a discussion somewhere before doing the split? What if the troper simply fixed or re-organized the examples into a separate subpage for easier readability, surely they're exempt from receiving warnings, right? For example, a troper moved all the Memetic Mutation entries from the YMMV page
of Zenless Zone Zero into a separate subpage
... There's no edit reason nor a link to a previous discussion, but the end-result of this "unilateral" edit is a well-organized page just like the other Memes subpages of miHoYo games.
- I am following a lot of pages and I've seen tropers splitting off example lists into subpages but without providing any links in the edit reasons to prove that the action was "discussed" beforehand... But now, reading the Administrivia page implies it's "mandatory" to have a discussion somewhere before doing the split? What if the troper simply fixed or re-organized the examples into a separate subpage for easier readability, surely they're exempt from receiving warnings, right? For example, a troper moved all the Memetic Mutation entries from the YMMV page
- Here's another thing... that Adminstrivia page says consensus, discussions, or forum threads are necessary... but what if nobody is replying to a discussion?
- For example, IIRC, I tried to start discussions for suggesting large-scale reorganizations or improvements to pages of works and franchises like Devil May Cry, Arknights, Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail, Genshin Impact, Granblue Fantasy, Bayonetta, and so on... Sometimes a troper replies to say it's just fine if I already do the edits myself, but sometimes nobody replied to my posts for a long time, such as this one
. This often happens if the franchise or game is no longer "hyped" at the moment and thus, only few tropers here are still actively or regularly checking the pages.
- For example, IIRC, I tried to start discussions for suggesting large-scale reorganizations or improvements to pages of works and franchises like Devil May Cry, Arknights, Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail, Genshin Impact, Granblue Fantasy, Bayonetta, and so on... Sometimes a troper replies to say it's just fine if I already do the edits myself, but sometimes nobody replied to my posts for a long time, such as this one
- On the other hand, can I still do a Large-scale change on a page or example list even if the discussion already happened long ago but the troper(s) somehow forgot about it?
- For example years ago, there has been an agreement to re-organize a Shout-Out page so that it won't look like a massive wall of text, or an approval from a mod to move trope examples from the main work page to the Recap pages... but it just so happened that I was pre-occupied with a lot of things off-site, and was unable to do the large-scale change... Can I just simply cite a link to the discussion from years ago, or do I have to start a "new" discussion or forum post instead?
Edited by DanteVin
openInappropriate No Yay quotes?
The No Yay trope is supposed to be about fictional relationships that are disgusting because of something wrong with the relationship itself (pedophilia, coercion, Unequal Pairings, rape, incest, etc.), correct? It's not for relationships that turn people off of shipping just because one or both of the participants are butt-ugly. That sounds more like Fan Disservice or Fetish Retardant.
With that said, some of the quotes on the Quotes page appear to have missed that memo…
- "This teaches us all a valuable lesson—rape is undesirable when ugly people are doing it."
That's the standout, though there were some others that also raised my eyebrows.
openScrappy Misuse
YMMV.My Brave Pony Starfleet Magic
- The Scrappy: Even with readers who find the fic to be So Bad, It's Good, various characters leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
- By far, the most hated character in the entire fic is Rhymey. He has no personality outside of his annoying Running Gag of always rhyming and arguably contributes the least of the Starfleet, which is saying a lot. While he is meant to be a Plucky Comic Relief, his jokes and rhyming quickly became annoying due to how constant and uninteresting they are. Additionally, despite not having any significant backstory or character development, he ends up taking up as much screentime and standalone adventures as Lightning and, despite his aforementioned lack of contributions, parades his successes for attention and as an excuse to do whatever he wants. His questionable relationship with Fluttershy doesn't help. Unsurprisingly, most docs based on Starfleet tend to have him killed off or Demoted to Extra.
- Goldwin, besides sharing a lot of problems with Rhymey, spends a lot of his time complaining about not being a real unicorn, constantly taking his mask off as a Running Gag despite the fact that it basically kills him, and constantly putting actual heroics on hold in favor of complaining.
- Dr. Emil Kudos is hated for just how Unintentionally Unsympathetic he is. He was dumped prior to the story in favor of a unicorn, so his response is to lead a massive conspiracy against his own people out of spite towards magic and abducts Peni just to rub it in her face and later kills himself just to spite her. Needless to say, several readers did not feel the same amount of sympathy towards him as Starfleet did.
Prior cleanup
said this works doesn't count as Scrappy must be hated by those who unironically like the work. Permission to re-remove and add a note? (Asking here because Scrappy cleanup
has yet to reply to current unrelated inquiry there.)
openMultiple Violations of Quote Potholing Videogame
The page quote for The Roottrees are Dead has been potholed to Title Drop three times by three
different
editors
, despite the initial deletion
referencing What to Put at the Top of a Page. I sent the second editor the notifier and they removed their re-potholing attempt by themself, but the third editor added it back in. Does this warrant a reversion and a commented-out warning?
openMost Writers Are Writers is about... what exactly?
The trope Most Writers Are Writers is just confusing to me. From what I've read in the description, it's meant to be a flexible trope to either showcase characterization pertaining to the writer profession and/or how it affects the plot, or even a Chekhov's Skill. But a lot of the examples I've found on the page itself is of "This character's a writer/novelist/screenplayer" with no mention of anything as to why that's relevant. This seems like a chairs magnet to me, and it either needs a clean-up, a rework or a splitting.
openTrying to avoid an Edit War
A while ago I added the following example to Family Guy S7E12: "Episode 420":
- Broken Aesop: The episode advocates for the legalization of marijuana by having Brian specifically say that the town's productivity has gone up since everyone started smoking. However, this is contradicted by some scenes that show how those who have used the substance have become almost completely unable to function properly. Tom and Diane can barely form cohesive sentences while reporting the news, and Peter himself struggles to set up one of his trademark Cutaway Gags.
Noob Master later changed
"Broken Aesop" into "Don't Shoot the Message", without making any other modifications. The problem is that, in doing so, this became a Zero-Context Example. The entry is about how events within the work contradict the presented viewpoint, which is the definition of Broken Aesop. Don't Shoot the Message should specifically describe how viewers agree with the message, but dislike the execution.
As such, I would like to ask for permission to revert the trope to what it originally was.
openFanfic Self-Recommendation
Someone recommending their own fanfic
on Fanfic Recs (admittedly stating it upfront).
Do we have a standardized message for that?
openEditing issues
(Apologies if this seems rambly, but I've been trying to figure out how best to word things for more than a week at this point)
Player 8950's edits tend to have poor grammar and can fall into natter territory, but perhaps most pertinently, back around October they were making extensive edits to pages in the FanonPokedex namespace without going through the attendant PEFE thread beforehand for consensus.
I informed them of this via DM (In the midst of spending the better part of an hour to an hour and a half reverting everything), and they were further told within the thread itself, but the edits to the pages they've made since have not only often had the same issues of not going through the thread first before doing significant changes (Which I've also had to revert), and many still have the aforementioned grammatical issues, even the ones that are technically a single sentence feel like they're definitely going against the spirit of the rules if not the absolute letter.
Most recently, in FanonPokedex.Pikablu, I ended up reverting
edits they made which hadn't been approved by the thread, only for them to put some of it back
without thread discussion, so at this point I think it's best to bring it here because otherwise I'll be continuing to play whack-a-mole and it's similar enough that I think just removing it would border on edit war.
openWeird edit on the ShoutOut page of ''Honkai Impact 3rd''
I was about to edit ShoutOut.Honkai Impact3rd again to add or update some examples, but noticed in the page source
that there's a "numlist" tag that hides some content in-between.
For instance in the source, you could see an example which mentions "Blade Mode" from Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, but it doesn't appear normally in the live page.
Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules does say "numlist" has a side-effect of hiding blocks of text, but is it okay to use it in "live" pages? AFAIK, it seems like a way of hiding some kind of draft, which a Sandbox may be more suitable for. What bothered me at first glance is the "numlist" block being inserted right in the middle of the page's source.
The edit history
I'll be sending them a PM assuming they wanted to re-organize the entire page while adding more examples but haven't finished it yet... but I still want to ask more opinions on how this should be done, because I think there are different ways or alternatives on where to draft the updated re-organization of the Shout-Out page without having to insert some hidden code in between.
- Should some kind of separate Sandbox page be created now for the attempt at re-organizing the Shout-Out page?
- Should I move the hidden "numlist" block below the page itself so that the page source won't be confusing to look at?
- Or should I just wait for troper Zerobeat to finish editing the ShoutOut.Honkai Impact3rd page itself?
I've made an ATT like this just in case because most of the Honkai Impact 3rd pages seem to be abandoned, including the game's specific Forums

I know I just asked about a similar case earlier, but there's an even more complicated case of a character being listed as both, and in this case, I'm genuinely wondering if he doesn't zigzag between the two in the one and only episode where he appears:
Dr. Dave from CSI. Both tropes are listed on the series' page:
I hate to bother you all, but this seems...complicated.