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openRise of Skywalker trope misuses?
I find these from The Rise of Skywalker suspect.
- Aborted Arc: After much buildup in the Prequels, and an arc in The Clone Wars, regarding a prophecy where Anakin Skywalker is The Chosen One who would restore balance to the force, the theme is dropped in favor of allowing Palpatine to survive and continue spreading the dark side via Puppet King Snoke and Ren, and causing destruction with the Sith fleet, thus nullifying his sacrifice. Zigzagged in that he does help Rey at the end, but by joining the thousands of other Jedi who live inside Rey, including Qui-Gon, Mace, Ahsoka, and Obi-Wan to empower Rey to defeat Palpatine once and for all and of course nothing said that the force will stay balanced.
The arc was completed and balance restored in ''Return of the Jedi", Anakin outright said "Bring back the balance Rey, as I did." It just didn't stay balanced or Palpatine stay dead for as long as we assumed. This sounds like complaining about the arc being arbitrarily undone as opposed to aborted. Saying it's Zigzagged makes it sound more like a non-example.
- Broken Aesop: Played With. One aesop of the previous film is that it doesn't matter if you're a "nobody," as Rey is still a powerful and capable hero despite the revelation her parents were just two drunken junk traders who sold her off. Then it turns out in this film that Rey was actually never nobody; the reason she's so powerful is because she's the granddaughter of Palpatine and heir to the entire Empire. Then it plays with it by showing she is a nobody. Her parents were nobody, useless to Palpatine and degraded to live as drunkards and junk traders. Her parents never intended her to become a Jedi, a war hero, or anything besides a scavenger to prevent her grandfather from finding her. Unfortunately, they failed.The aesop is reconstructed in a conversation between Finn and Jannah, where they discuss the possibility that when they refused to fight for the First Order anymore, they heard the Force calling out to them. Just because they aren't descended from a powerful line of Jedi doesn't mean the Force doesn't flow through them, same as with every other living being in the galaxy. Additionally, Rey being a heroic descendant of Palpatine who takes on the Skywalker name despite lacking blood relations to them continues the theme that blood does not mean everything.
Broken Aesop cannot be played with as by definition it's unintentional, all this sounds like it's arguing with itself. It also requires contradicting it's internal logic, so contradicting the Aesop of prior installments isn't this as it's an external contradiction. This sounds more like complaining.
Last question: Rey saving the day by by following Kylo's "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to." seems worth noting. Would this be Villain Has a Point or Strawman Has a Point as the validity was retconned in?
openGender neutral writing in trope descriptions
I noticed that the description for Widely-Spaced Jail Bars uses male pronouns, even though you could easily replace them with gender neutral ones. For some reason, I thought that descriptions should be gender neutral, unless the trope itself relates to a specific gender.
However, I couldn't find a rule that states that descriptions should refrain from using gendered pronouns, and some other pages (such as Frozen Face or This Way to Certain Death) use male pronouns as well.
Is there a rule regarding the use of gendered pronouns in descriptions?
Edited by PowogaopenJust removed this from Gamebooks
For the record, I've removed this entry from Gamebooks.
- Listened to in sequential order, Kendrick Lamar’s album “DAMN” is about the protagonist coming to terms with his own flaws and learning to love himself despite them. If played backwards, it’s about his descent into madness and self-loathing.
I mean, seriously?
openIs there a thread for adding/removing things from YMMV?
No-Damage Run has the YMMV banner (possibly because it's a subtrope of Self-Imposed Challenge), but all of the on-page examples are objective rewards that games have for completing some part of them without getting hit, and only 71 of its 594 wicks (~12%) are on YMMV pages. Is there a long-term projects thread I can take it to (like with Trivia pages), or does it need to go on Tropes Needing TRS?
openClueless Aesop misuse?
After removing this from Clueless Aesop per cleanup
this was added back:
- * ''Literature/HarryPotter'': According to Creator/JKRowling, the idea behind the House Elves and Hermione's attempts to help them was to satirize WhiteMansBurden-esque activism, where well-meaning people from a more privileged group are so determined to help others in a less privileged group that they ignore what the people they're trying to help actually want. Unfortunately, this lesson is impossible to get across to the readers because House Elves' culture is completely surrounded by being happy that wizards use them as ''[[SlaveRace slave labor]]''. [[ValuesDissonance Not only is this never depicted as wrong by the books]], Hermione [[InformedWrongness is treated as an annoying tree-hugging hippie by both the narrative and the other characters]] simply for being the only one who is horrified by the fact that wizards are completely fine with slavery. It also makes an argument that [[HappinessInSlavery House Elves enjoy serving Wizards]] and [[SlaveLiberation abhor the attempts to free them]]. This ignores the fact that they're psychologically conditioned to [[SelfHarm physically punish themselves severely]] if they fail a task or disobey their masters, [[MoreThanMindControl clearly indicating they are not in control of their own minds]]; in turn, this [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation strongly implies]] that their "enjoyment" of servitude is just as forced. The closest the series comes close to decrying the treatment of House Elves is that [[GoldenMeanFallacy it's wrong to enslave them if you're an abusive master, not that it's wrong to enslave them at all]], with Hermione's CharacterDevelopment over it making her gradually become more reformist and accept that most House-Elves value better treatment from their slave masters more than actual freedom. And even that clumsy message loses what little water it holds when ''Deathly Hallows'' reveals that even a loving and well-meaning master can ''accidentally'' lock an elf in an infinite loop of failure and self-punishment by incautiously giving them an impossible order. As a result, the subplot came off as a huge mockery of genuine activism to many readers, especially to ones who were introduced to ''Harry Potter'' after the series wrapped up. It's not helped by the fact that many real-life slaves in the past were portrayed by their owners as being happy in slavery as an excuse to justify owning slaves.
I removed it as Clueless Aesop is not just an Aesop poorly done, but an Aesop poorly done because:
- It's a subject more mature or complex than the work can effectively portray (not the case given how the series had matured by this point).
- The fantastical parts undermine the real world applicability (not the case as the problems are the real world comparisons).
Also most of the issues causing it are YMMV which shouldn't apply for a non-YMMV trope. This issue is already covered under Strawman Has a Point and Unfortunate Implications. I intend to cut unless anyone objects.
openWhy is Sailor Earth not YMMV?
Sailor Earth is about fans of a work creating Original Characters that follow a theming convention in the work itself. Creating Original Characters based off a work is an Audience Reaction. However, despite this, the trope is not YMMV, and is listed as a trope on many work pages.
openCreator adding audience reaction
nathancook
made a page about his own youtube channel here. I know it's allowed but he also made a funny page where everything is added by himself here. As far as I know, funny pages are audience reactions and creators are not allowed to put audience reactions on their own works.
This is visible here
openShould Win Back The Crowd get a Cleanup thread?
I noticed a lot of examples where it was being used to describe prerelease stuff and not the actual work: This example from YMMV.Soul Calibur VI for example:
- Win Back the Crowd: This is pretty much an Enforced Trope. Okubo stated
that the damage caused by V put the franchise on thin ice; if this game fails, the Soul series will completely fade from the stages of history. Therefore, they're going all out with nothing to lose.
- From the moment VI was announced, there were already signs that this is in action. Many declared the series to be dead after nearly six years without anything major (apart from free-to-play, mobile, and pachinko machines, but that doesn't count) and the last game itself was polarizing to say the least. Comparatively speaking, the reception to this game's announcement was highly positive, a sentiment that only intensified when it became clear that the game would not follow the largely unpopular Time Skip from V, allowing old favorites to return once again and proving one's love for the series wasn't limited to the days of old.
- It's clear that this has been Project Soul's goal from Day 1. The game takes the best aspects of past games and does its best to improve and add to them, all while giving a fresh start to the series after a convoluted lore and a derided Time Skip backed the story into a corner. Basically, it's a new starting point and a second chance that many felt the series needed, and many would say that things can only go up from here.
- Okubo's promise that Soulcalibur VI will look to be a good game first, and an eSport second is also a sign of this. Many haven't been pleased that games lately have skimmed on content or made censorship among other compromises with the excuse being "we want this to be played in professional gaming". While Okubo stated he does have plans to make it accessible to professionals, the plan is to worry about that after the basics are covered.
- That being said, the tournament crowd is absolutely thrilled with how the game plays so far, stating that it takes what was good about V and improves upon it while adding new ideas to make the game feel more distinct and less like Street Fighter.
- Libra of Soul finally gives players the sequel to III's Chronicles of the Sword they've been asking for since it was introduced back in 2005. It's expected that this mode will be as addictive as its predecessor, and the reception to finally getting a mode like this again has been very positive.
- VI getting an easy ticket to the main stage in EVO 2019 came as an absolute joy to the fanbase, as unlike other games, Soulcalibur didn't have to make a single compromise to be enjoyed by all, casual players and professionals alike — it's just that well-made.
Not to mention the fact that it's also listed on works that didn't have a crowd untill the recent installment (That's Win The Crowd) and series that didn't lose fans despite a bad installment.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropenEditor with grammar and ZCE problems
(Been a while since I've used that subject line.) Ghngjnty
is the culprit this time; their grasp of spelling, grammar, and punctuation is tenuous at best. Just looking at their edits since the beginning of June, we have such errors as "espically" for "especially", "appearent" for "apparent", "than" for "then", "embarressed" for "embarrassed"... and, going back a few months to February, the self-demonstrating "unintentionable gibberious" for "unintelligible gibberish" (ironically, replacing the correct phrase in the process). They also have problems with zero-context examples and example indentation (see their edit to NightmareFuel.LA Noire for an example of both of those).
I've sent notifiers for grammar, ZCEs, and indentation, but these problems are so chronic and pervasive that I wondered if further action might be needed.
openQuestionable Examples on "Unbuilt Tropes"
Found this here on https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UnbuiltTrope/Literature
"A Confederacy of Dunces: Though written in the 1960s and published in 1981, John Kennedy Toole's masterpiece unbuilds the crackpot ideas and philosophies that emerged from the Internet, and the kind of people who promote them. Ignatius is a predecessor of those very crackpots: he promotes the idea of returning to feudalism and conservatism, predating the modern "Dark Enlightenment" movement, but is a lazy slob who leaches off his mother and spends his time watching cartoons and movies just to complain about their "degeneracy". And it's all but stated he engages in pseudo-intellectual nonsense just to stick it to his liberal activist girlfriend."
The thing is, I just feel uncomfortable about finding some Unbuilt Trope example of something that exists in real-life and not just in the world of tropes and conventions (in fact, the entry explicitly states it is referring to something in real life). It's like saying that so-and-so shows an Unbuilt example of communism or any other real-life theories and movements with real life impact.
To further build upon questionable examples purporting to have found Unbuilt examples of real life movement, here's some other entries on just that page itself:
"The Moviegoer has a series of insightful and utter deconstructive extrapolations about the flaws of 60's counter culture but the book was published in 1961, well ahead of the popular outbreak of what he was describing."
"A good forty years or so before the concept of The Man began to take root in the public consciousness, it is discussed without being named in the 1922 novel One of Ours. Progressive young Gladys takes a moment to ruminate on how protagonist Claude Wheeler's asshole brother Bayliss is one of the type of people who run the world.
— “She believed that all things which might make the world beautiful—love and kindness, leisure and art—were shut up in prison, and that successful men like Bayliss Wheeler held the keys.” "
(I don't even think this is an example of Unbuilt Trope)
openDragalia Lost character info
Over time, the Characters.Dragalia Lost subpages seem to have gradually grown to include more and more character stats on them. As of now, each character has listed:
- Voice actors
- Element (only for main characters and alternate versions, as characters are already sorted by element to begin with)
- Rarity
- Unit Type
- Weapon Type
- Co-Ability
- Chain Co-Ability
- Shareable Skill
- Debut
I really think most of these are out of place for the site; with the abilities and skills turning into Walkthrough Mode. And the text takes a bunch of space, getting much worse if a character has multiple versions to document (see Characters.Dragalia Lost Main Characters for the worst of it).
I'm tempted to just take a chainsaw to this stuff myself, but I'm worried that it'll just be put back and head toward an edit war. And I could use some input on what stays and what goes.
open Long list of ways to spot a FakeCharity
Fake Charity has a long series of bullets about Real Life fake charities, added by a mix of tropers rather than a single person. It reads to me like beyond the scope of the site, plus it's not about examples of the trope but instead in general. Checking to see if that's the read other people have before bringing out the ax and fire.
- Ways you can spot a fake (or potentially fake) charity:
- It is not registered with your local/state/provincial/federal government.
- Charity watchdog sites either do not list it, or have listed it as suspicious.
- A representative who is collecting for the charity either cannot or will not answer any questions you have.
- They ask for donations using wire transfers, cash, money orders, prepaid cards and the like.
- They don't provide either a mailing address or a physical address, or they do, but it's fake.
- They don't provide a phone number, or they do, but it's fake, or no one ever answers.
- You're made to feel guilty, or like you're selfish/a bad person/etc. if you don't want to donate, or don't want to donate now.
- A collector either cannot or will not supply identification, or their identification is bogus.
- They keep hounding you for donations, even after you've told them to stop calling or sending you mail.
- Their website looks almost exactly like that of a legitimate website, but the details concerning where to donate and whom to donate to are different.
- It purports to help a local fire or police department or hospital, but the actual fire department/police department/hospital has no knowledge of this charity or fundraiser.
- They solicit donations from you via email campaigns. Generally speaking, real charities don't solicit donations through email. (This could be a variation of the classic 419 Scam.)
- They ask for donations via store or online gift cards or online currencies such as iTunes. Once again real charities don't solicit donations in this way.
- They ask for wiring of money through a wiring service like Western Union. Once again this is also not typically a way that a real charity would solicit money.
- You get an email asking for financial help for a sick child (or occasionally adult), often sent as a Chain Letter, and (more importantly) with no information (such as an address, whether the child in question is being tended to at a hospital or at home, a diagnosis, a prognosis, perhaps the name of a doctor or hospital, etc.), but what is included is information on where to donate money to, usually via wire transfer.
- They don't accept material donations like food, razor blades, or clothing even when they say they intend to use the money on such items. note While many real charities also don't accept material donations, the legit ones will usually provide helpful information to other charities that do.
- Of course, what can muddy the waters here is that even legitimate charities have been officially censured for the "hard sell" tactics used by paid agents; one of the most respectable names in the business, Oxfam, and several other big names, were publicly exposed by the UK's Charity Commission (the overseeing body) for their use of "chuggers" note the disparaging term "charity mugger", used for paid agents soliciting donations and for their use of third-party call centres and agents who were paid by commission and were not too scrupulous over making sales. The results were horrendous
. the chuggers used both the inculcating-guilt scam and the persistent nuisance calling of people who had already told them not to.
- Various "watchdog" sites such as Charity Navigator
, CharityWatch
, and BBB Wise Giving Alliance
rate real-life nonprofits on their transparency, accountability, and efficient use of funds.
- One common complaint about crowdfunding websites such as GoFundMe
is that it's very easy for any scammer to post a sob story and receive donations. The sites do have fraud reporting tools, but they also can be lax about following up on how people use the donations they receive.
- Of course, this is every bit as illegal as conning people out of their money by any other means, and people have gotten jail time for it
when they've been caught.
- Of course, this is every bit as illegal as conning people out of their money by any other means, and people have gotten jail time for it
- Be wary of charities or fundraisers you've never heard of that pop up all of a sudden in the wake of a natural disaster or some other type of humanitarian crisis. While some of them are legitimate, at least an equal number of them are the result of Con Artists looking to take advantage of the chaos, and take advantage of the generosity of people who want to help. And you might not be able to tell which is which until it's too late. If you want to make donations towards disaster relief organizations, your best bet is to find a reputable charity through one of the aforementioned "watchdog" sites.
openWhat An Idiot: Terminator
Tropers.Cieloazul created WhatAnIdiot.Terminator yesterday and immediately began adding dozens upon dozens of "examples". Most of these examples seem to be personal cases of Fridge Logic (for example: "Skynet should have sent multiple Termintors", "Sarah shouldn't have told the police/hospital about the future", "The T-1000 should have used its shapeshifting more", etc, etc.). If you look at the original edits, he or she added a LOT of these nitpicks as examples of What An Idiot.
Being somewhat versed in the lore of the Terminator franchise myself, I took a chainsaw to a large number of these examples because some of them are even explained in the movies. (For example, it's explicitly stated in the second film that Sarah told the police about the crushed robot from the first film, only for Cyberdyne to cover up its discovery.) I thus deleted a large number of these "examples".
I addition to adding more for the rest of the Terminator films this morning, Cieloazul also readded one of the original ones I deleted (regarding the first chase scene in Dark Fate, where Grace throws metal bars at the Terminator).
Truth be told, I honestly think it's more appropriate to delete most (if not all) of the examples on the page, as most of these are examples of "narrative convenience" and not really What An Idiot. For example, Cieloazul tried to list EVERY SINGLE MOVIE for only having one Terminator sent back to one time period at a time, even though the Terminator Twosome trope is literally the basis of the entire franchise.
(NOTE: I brought up this concern on the Discussion page yesterday, and Cieloazul has thus far completely ignored it.)
Edited by NubianSatyressopenBroken Aesop removal?
This was deleted from The Last of Us Part II by Throwaway219 without explanation.
- Broken Aesop: The game's central theme of the cycle of revenge is concluded when Ellie, at the last possible moment, convinces herself to spare Abby instead of giving into her desire for revenge. While intended as a touching moment, it falls apart because Ellie has through to this point killed far more people in the forms of mooks the player has been fighting, none of whom have the personal reason for her to kill like with Abby, outside of the few instances where it’s an act of self defense. As a result, Ellie's abandonment of her quest for revenge at the literal last possible moment comes off as a case of complete Moral Dissonance. In addition, Abby completely breaks the theme of the cycle of revenge by managing to actually succeed in killing Joel. Despite not feeling any better for doing so, and subsequently losing several friends due to Ellie's rampage, she ultimately escapes her conflict with Ellie in one piece (her injuries from her ultimately unrelated battles with the Rattlers and Seraphites not withstanding, in fact Ellie being there actually saves her from them) while Ellie loses her fingers and thus her last connection to Joel in their Final Battle. It ends up coming across as Ellie being punished for attempting the same thing Abby did to her in the first place, while Abby manages to effectively escape any personal consequences for her actions. At the end of the day, she managed to achieve her vengeance and start a new life for herself, while Ellie's life ends up ruined despite actually ending the cycle herself.
Throwaway219 has already been brought up
for suspect deletions. I PM's then asking to explain the deletion but haven't heard back. I feel it could be reworked to be less wordy and complainy but I don't see anything objectively wrong with the entry warranting deletion. Should this be added back?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openAbout the High-Functioning Autism page
For some reason, the Useful Notes page on autism is called High-Functioning Autism.
This is weird, because the page is about the whole spectrum, not high-functioning autism in particular.
Additionally, many autistic people disagree with the use of the terms "high-functioning" and "low-functioning", because it carries Unfortunate Implications. For example, calling someone "high-functioning" implies that they should be able to adapt to society and act "normally" (read: like a neurotypical/non-autistic person), and that if they have difficulties due to their autism, it's a failing on their part (imagine someone saying "You should be able to handle this, you're high-functioning!). It also dehumanizes low-functioning people and suggests that they're "lesser" compared to the higher-functioning ones.
The preferred terminology is "support needs" (e.g. "low support needs" instead of "high-functioning) since it acknowledges that even people with milder autism may occasionally require support and accommodations, while not belittling those who do have more needs.
Here's an image that kinda explains it
◊, and here's a somewhat more in-depth article
.
So, how about swapping the current title and the redirect, Autism? And maybe add a section explaining why functioning labels are bad (I'd do it myself, but a. the page is locked, and b. it feels weird adding that when the page's title uses functioning labels).
Edited by ZuxtronopenUnnecessary swearing and/or WordCruft?
I was perusing the Draconic Abomination page, and noticed the entry for Dragon Project seems a little excessive, particularly in terms of vulgarity. Don't want to come across as a Bluenose Bowdlerizer, so I figured I'd raise the subject here. Here's the entry in question:
- In Dragon Project, the Dark Oracle Spear Behemoth is Vile Mezarenda, a winged serpentine dragon with an eye at the end of its tail and a massive sinister eye where its face is supposed to be. This "thing", along with the Light Burst Greatsword Behemoth, Ruthless Illugion, serve as guardians for an abandoned dragon sanctuary that doubles as an archive. Its mere appearance was unnerving enough, but it has some Lovecraftian Superpowers up its sleeve, such as summoning shadowy spikes that trap unlucky Hunters to their demise or breaking its own FUCKING EYE OFF to buff itself, leaving behind an empty eye-socket with glowing Tron Lines. The nightmare doesn't stop there, as the empty eye-socket occasionally drips dark black puddles of blood that deal damage when stepped on. The worst part? One of the snake dragon's lovely attacks is to summon the aforementioned spikes, turn its eye into a makeshift black hole, and crawl around the battlefield in frightening speeds while sucking up any unfortunate Hunter within its eye-socket before slamming its head against the ground, strong enough to border on a One-Hit KO. It doesn't help that a bug will turn the unfortunate Hunter into an invisible yet frail spectre that cannot deal any damage yet can receive damage until their demise.note Thankfully the bug can be fixed by changing your weapons or disconnecting and reconnecting the game.
openSociopathic Soldier
Some guy edited the description trope and replaces a few important categories. Should we revert them back?. His reasoning to edit it seems self-righteous and based on his own value
Edited by jun_kagamiopenEdit War in the Code Lyoko Characters page. Western Animation
Georgie Enkoom listed an example of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse in the Code Lyoko page, where he describes a character that tries to be The Atoner, but is rejected by the other characters. I deleted it due to mis-use, as the situation described is actually Heel–Face Door-Slam, and the entry itself has many points that seem to be based on speculation. However, Georgie almost immediately added it back with no edit reason whatsoever, and worse, he undid another one of my edits where I explain/hide a few Zero Context Examples, apparently out of spite.
It should also be noted that his edits
have some basic grammar errors. A few of his latest ones include:
"As a good guy, he dishes one to nine Creepers, who doesn't even touches him."
"He can throw his swords, but it doesn't guarantees that it will always hit."
Some of his other edits are also blanket statements:
"Half the Man He Used to Be: One of his preferred methods to devirtualize the Lyoko-warriors."
"Impaled with Extreme Prejudice: see Half the Man He Used to Be above."
I have fixed some of these, but given his reaction to my first edit, I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict escalated.
Edited by TantaMontyopenShould this be removed from the Gundam YMMV? Anime
I've noticed this particular example while I was browsing:
- Americans Hate Tingle: The Gundam franchise is very unpopular in Brazil, since most of Brazilian anime fans dislike mecha series. The only anime aired in the country was Mobile Suit Gundam Wing and the Mobile Suit Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz OVAs during the beginning of the 2000s in the Cartoon Network, but it was clearly overshadowed by other animations like Dragon Ball Z, Rurouni Kenshin and YuYu Hakusho in the channel. Even the Brazilian fansubs don't have interest on it, most of them don't bother subbing any of the series that came before Mobile Suit Gundam SEED and Mobile Suit Gundam 00.
Speaking as a Brazilian myself, I'd like to clarify some things:
- I really don't know where this supposed mecha stigma came from, even other shows like Code Geass have a solid fanbase in the Otaku community of the country.
- Wing was in fact overshadowed by other animations, but the franchise never aired again in all of Latin America; Seed was planned to air in the country alongside SD Gundam before it was licensed and Wing itself was even revisited by another TV block not affiliated with Cartoon Network.
- All pre-2000 Gundam shows are available and are easy to find thanks to fansubs made by devoted fans, gaining a small but dedicated cult-following in the process. In recent years, the modern Gundam shows are much more popular than their predecessors and are enjoyed by many in the community.
So yeah, It's certainly not "hated" or "very unpopular". This section was noted by another Brazilian troper a few years ago, who had this to say: "As an actual brazilian anime fan, I think that this post is making things sound worse than they actually are. And the "most of series are either not subbed or dropped" part is factually incorrect. Big fansubs groups may have not subbed Gundam anime before Seed, but smaller and specialized groups did it."
Edited by TheMadCr0w

Tempting Fate has a huge list of subtropes. Which isn't a problem in of itself.
The problem is that a lot of them... aren't subtropes? Some of them are, but a lot of them are examples of how one can tempt fate and saying the trope that they're tempting.
For example, the very first "subtrope":
Cue the Rain isn't a subtrope of Tempting Fate. A character doesn't have to do or say anything for Cue the Rain to happen, it's just "the weather turns to emphasize an already bad situation." You can tempt fate in a Cue the Rain situation, but it's not a subtrope, just one that can overlap.
A lot of the "subtropes" are like that.
Even if they're valid subtropes, it's not useful as an index because they're ordered by the Stock Phrase that's tempting fate rather than the trope itself, and sometimes the trope is potholed so it's not even visible.
Sorta tempted to just move the whole thing to Analysis.Tempting Fate.
Edited by Larkmarn