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openDoes having your memory erased and replaced with FakeMemories count for BrainwashedAndCrazy. Videogame
So there's a character in Fire Emblem Awakening, whose backstory involves her being kidnapped as a teenager by people she hates, having her entire memory and personality erased to the point she no longer remembers her parents or even her name, and then all this being replaced with a Fake Memories magically implanted into her mind. She is then used to carry out her kidnapper's bidding.
The character describes herself as a ""A girl enslaved mind, body, and soul"
and the official sources use "pawn" and "puppet to describe her, with the Fire Emblem wiki(link
, ) describing her with the word, "brainwashed."
The reason I put this here is someone keeps contesting this example and saying she wasn't brainwashed, even though there is a similar character listed from Sailor Moon. I wanted to know what ATT thinks? Does that count as an example of Brainwashed and Crazy?
Edited by MonsundopenBatman controversy 2.0 Print Comic
Our favorite Dark Knight never seems to stay away from controversy for too long, and this time, it's two-fold.
First, Batman's folder in the DCAMU: Justice League character page has Adaptational Wimp, which says: "Downplayed. This incarnation of Batman is still a good fighter and he has his moments like getting the upper hand over Green Lanterns in the Justice League movies. But in his own films, aside from being able to defeat Deathstroke, himself an even worse Adaptational Wimp, in Son of Batman, he tends to get the short end of the stick in his titular films. In Batman Vs Robin he spent most of his fights taking a beating from various Talons, Robin, and the main Talon, while his comics counterpart was able to defeat Talon even after being famished and dehydrated for days. He also spends much of Bad Blood being captured and playing the role of Badass in Distress so he can be saved by the Bat-family. And in Hush, while he did much better in fights, he still wasn't able to defeat the eponymous villain on his own in the end and required the help of Catwoman to do so, whereas his comic books counterpart was able to beat The Riddler when he had been similarly physically enhanced by Venom during the Knightfall story. Justified with Damian. In Apokolips War, a brainwashed Batman reveals that the only reason Damian won is because he let him, and during their last fight he proves to his son that the latter is no match for him."
Adaptational Wimp has been frequently misused over these past few years, but the trope's definition is: "when their usefulness, agency, and contribution to the plot is significantly reduced. It is not this trope when the character "only" easily defeated twenty Mooks instead of a hundred; it's when the character struggled to take down even one. Realize too, that this may be intentional and in a long-running series may have the character take a level in badass to provide Character Development and align them better with the original version."
Then, the Dork Age entry in the YMMV page of Batman (Rebirth) was deleted and added yet again, because apparently, a consensus hasn't been reached about whether or not Tom King's run can be considered a Dork Age. Dork Age, much like Adaptational Wimp, has seen its fair share of misuses, but an entry in a long-running franchise can be a Dork Age if it qualities for any of the following criteria: 1. It has to be a critical and financial disappointment
2. Any changes it brought to the series must be undone by later installments
3. Whenever it's referenced by other entries, it has to be done in a negative manner.
So, what do you say?
Edited by MasterHeroopenGenre Turning Point question
I discovered in the edit history for Genre Turning Point that the page once had real life examples, but they were deleted in March 2017 by Nohbody with the edit reason "none of those are trope examples". Despite this, the page is listed under Keep Real Life Examples. While I believe that the examples deleted may not count since there is no "genre" being changed, they were deleted without explanation, and as mentioned the page is indexed under an index that indicates real life examples can stay. What should I do? Should I restore them? Keep them removed? Temporarily restore and then figure out what to do with them? Go through the examples and see which ones are legit, if any? I'm puzzled as to what to do.
The examples in question:
- When Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with his army rather than surrender to his rivals he made all but inevitable the fall of the Roman Republic and the birth of The Roman Empire. The very shape of Western Europe (and thus by extension some of the shape of the rest of the world) were set from one course to another by one man's personal ambition.
- The Black Death decimated Europe's population in the mid-14th century with repercussions felt for decades. Some of these still felt today, according to various scholars, may have included:
- The foundations of the Protestant Reformation and the weakening of Church authority in general
- A rise in anti-Semitism and other prejudices
- The end of feudal economy and the rise of the middle class: Because laborers and craftsmen were fewer and could therefore demand higher wages, allowing them to accumulate wealth.
- The rise of paper and printing, as lawyers forced to settle a large number of estates began to wish that more of everything was written down, which increased demand for people who could write, which led to people looking for faster ways to produce documents. Eventually, they hit upon the printing press.
- The Agricultural Revolution: In order to increase the efficiency of food production, which the plague had squeezed. Also, great lords realized that running larger farms with hired hands was more efficient than serfdom.
- The Industrial Revolution—Indirectly, as a result of several of the above factors; the accumulation of wealth in the hands of craftsmen (which allowed them to start profit-making businesses that eventually turned into industries), the Protestant Reformation (which encouraged a burst of new thought in all directions, and also led to the establishment of the community of English Dissenters, who it just happened were mostly craftsmen, and whose response to Anglican discrimination—which had the effect of pigeonholing them as craftsmen and merchants—was to invent the modern world), and the Agricultural Revolution (which freed up labor to work in factories when industrialization happened, and also created fabulous wealth for farm-owning nobles, many of whom bankrolled industrial ventures basically because they had nothing better to do with their money).
- People of European ancestry having greater resistance to HIV, which some scientists have linked to antibodies originally developed by people who survived the plague.
- The plague also returned periodically for centuries afterward, leading to boom/bust population cycles which didn't really end until the colonial age.
- King John of England (the real-life king behind the Robin Hood tales) managed to screw things up quite badly in England; botched wars, high taxes, and getting the nation excommunicated for a few years. His frustrated and angered barons united and forced John to sign the Magna Carta (Great Charter). Now the monarchs had to at least be accountable to the nobles. The Magna Carta also established concepts like due process of law being required before stripping a non-serf of land and property, limitations on the king's powers, and a provision where a council of 25 nobiles could overrule the king's decree. It became the first restraints of absolute monarchy in England, and paved the way for the eventual triumph of parliament over monarchy.
Winston Churchill: We owe far more to the vices of John than to the labours of virtuous sovereigns.
- The Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453 is widely considered by historians to mark the official end of The Middle Ages and the final nail in the coffin of The Roman Empire (the Byzantines always considered themselves to be Romans, referring to their territory as Romania), which had existed for nearly 1500 years if one combines the ruling years of Ancient Rome and the Byzantine Empire together.
- The massive outflow of Greek scholars from Constantinople greatly influenced and accelerated the birth of The Renaissance in Europe.
- The sudden removal of the Byzantine Empire as a buffer-zone between Christian Europe and the Muslim Middle East, as well as the removal of the main overland trade-link between Europe and Asia, led to rapid advancements in warfare and seafaring technology within Europe for the first time in centuries.
- The fact that the Ottomans were now blocking the Silk Road led European navigators to pursue alternative routes to the riches of the Far East, which brings us onto...
- Perhaps most famous of all, Christopher Columbus' discovery of the West Indies in 1492 was The Beginning Of The End for every major civilization in North and South America, along with much of the native populations. At the same time, northern Europe, which had been a cultural backwater for centuries, entered a new era of vast riches and world domination. It triggered the Columbian Exchange, the exchange of crops, goods and people across continents, leading to items such as the potato, cocoa, chocolate and coffee being spread as far as China.
- Though the Black Death may have gotten the ball rolling economically (see above), the Wars of the Roses officially signaled the end of the feudal system in Britain, while also definitively ending three centuries of dominance by The House of Plantagenet. They showed just how much chaos could result from a weak monarch leaving too much power in the hands of landholding nobles guided by petty grudges and ambitions, with a personal quarrel between the Duke of Somerset and the Duke of York gradually spiraling into the most devastating civil war that Britain had ever seen. In an age when the Plantagenet bloodline had become so widespread and diluted that multiple second and third cousins of the King could seize the throne by virtue of being direct descendants of Edward III, it was only a matter of time before the young Henry VI became a pawn of his scheming Lancastrian advisors and his ambitious Yorkist cousins. When the Wars were finally settled by the rise of The House of Tudor, Henry VII and his successors made damn sure that the same thing would never happen again. Under the Tudors, the monarchy's power grew to unprecedented levels, with a well-developed central bureaucracy presiding over far more aspects of public life than ever before.
- The Peace of Westphalia (1648), which ended the Thirty Years' War, originated the modern conception of state sovereignty (including territorial integrity and modern diplomatic relations), not just for the states involved, but all future states as well. It also removed The Pope and the Roman Catholic Church from European politics for good, finishing what the Black Death had started two centuries prior.
- The Protestant Reformation definitively broke the long-unchallenged binary between the Roman Catholic Church in the West and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the East, marking a major milestone in the Western World moving past the old vestiges of the The Roman Empire that endured through Rome and Constantinople's surviving religious institutions. It showed that there were far more ways of interpreting Christianity than anyone could have imagined before, and it challenged the idea that any earthly religious authority—like the Pope or the Ecumenical Patriarch—could have a monopoly on interpreting the word of God for the masses. Once Martin Luther opened the floodgates by founding the Lutheran Church, a host of others denominations followed in short order, including the Calvinists under John Calvin, the Swiss Protestants under Ulrich Zwingli, the Anabaptists under Thomas Müntzer, and the Anglicans under King Henry VIII—all of whom (directly or indirectly) fueled the geneses of the Presbyterians in Scotland, the Puritans in England, and the Baptists and Episcopalians in America. Likewise, the movement spread literacy through the use of the printing press and as per Max Weber, it paved the way for the development of capitalism. The world was never the same again.
- When the 1755 Lisbon earthquake and resulting tsunami and fire devastated the capital of Portugal and left tens of thousands dead, its aftershocks weren't limited to just the physical ones, or even to how it left Portugal's colonial ambitions up in smoke and solidified the power of the prime minister (the Marquis of Pombal's effective response to the earthquake saw the old aristocracy effectively sidelined). The disaster, which struck a devoutly Catholic city on All Saints' Day and left nearly every church (along with about 85% of the city) in ruins, had a tremendous impact on Enlightenment-era European thought that, two centuries later, Theodor W. Adorno compared to the reaction to The Holocaust, shaking the faith of many people in the idea of a just and benevolent god. The Great Lisbon Earthquake has been cited as the birth of atheism, with Voltaire, most notably, using the example of the earthquake in Candide and Poème sur le désastre de Lisbonne to savagely attack the philosophical optimism of his peers.
- The American Revolution (c. 1774-1783) decisively changed international politics forever. It was the first modern democracy, and thus the trope maker for much of what we now think of as Western democracy. It directly or indirectly inspired revolutions for nearly a century and a half (from 1776 to 1918) - in particular the anti-monarchist nature of most of these revolts. It arguably represents the point at which guerilla warfare and firearms first met. And finally, it was the first time that an imperial European power was defeated by a non-European one. It was also the first example of a nation dominated by people of obvious European extraction, speaking a language from Europe, nevertheless declaring themselves a separate, non-European nation, paving the way for revolutions in Haiti, Ireland and independence movements across the world.
- The French Revolution put an end to one of the oldest monarchies in Europe and left France as a veritable laboratory of political experimentation for the next century (the only monarch afterwards who tried to pretend that things hadn't changed that much did not last long), eventually making it into a solidly Republican country. The Revolution's army reforms also changed the notion of warfare as per Carl von Clausewitz and marked the first modern "total war". The Revolution also proved, albeit briefly and imperfectly, that a democracy can govern over a large area of land, that an army of Conscription and meritocratic ranks can not only defend itself against professional aristocratic armies but that they can win wars and take territories as well. Before the Revolution, the main argument against republican forms of government and democracy was that it only applied to small city states and small populations.Even Jean-Jacques Rousseau (the guiding spirit behind the Revolution) agreed with this but the Revolution, regardless of later contradictions and reversals, put a permanent dent in that belief.
- The US Constitution's Bill of Rights and the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, both of which were first drafted in 1789, are the Trope Codifiers for the modern concepts of liberal democracy and human rights. While some of those rights had appeared in the Magna Carta in the fourteenth century (though many of them had previously suddenly lapsed halfway across the Atlantic for British colonial subjects), the 1789 documents took what were historically viewed as peculiar customs of the English (and Welsh and Scots and Irish, but nobody on the Continent paid any attention to those) and turned them into universal rules. The American Bill of Rights and French Declaration of Rights declared the rights they defended to be inherent, "natural" human rights, with which the state could not legitimately interfere, rather than being the merely traditional "Rights of Englishmen" guaranteed by Magna Carta.
- Inverted with the Revolutions of 1848, "the Spring of Nations" described by historian G. M. Trevelyan as the the turning point where "history failed to turn". He and later historians note that the general failure of the events and the triumph of the repressive governments to put it down pointed out the greater strength of autocratic nations to police the population. But at the same time, the revolution did force many of these nations to move on a path of reform.
- In Germany, this event led to what some historians call Sonderweg (though it is disputed and contentious). In this view, Germany launched on a "Special Path" towards modernization where feudal structures and values were synthesized with modern ideals, leading to the rise of Otto von Bismarck who changed and organized Germany "from above" to prevent revolution "from below". This in turn paved the way for greater authoritarianism in German society, finally reaching its climax in the rise and fall of the Third Reich.
- The American Civil War turned the American economic and political map upside down. The Southern states that made up the Confederacy, which had once been the wealthiest region in the country, became a backwater for a century following the destruction of the exploitative chattel slavery system, which had been the key pillar of their economy; no longer could the Southern gentry lash and beat their way into prosperity on the backs of their slaves. The end of slavery, likewise, planted the seed for the newly-freed African American community to establish their independence, setting the stage for the Great Migration
and, later, the Civil Rights Movement, though in the short term, unfortunately, it led to a racist backlash
from both Southern whites who resented their loss of status and Northern whites who feared competition from black labor. Beyond slavery and race relations, the example that had been made of the Confederacy firmly established the supremacy of the federal government over the states and the idea of the US as a singular nation rather than a collection of such, up to and including a shift in language
; before the war, the US was most commonly described in plural terms ("the United States are"), while afterwards, it was described in singular terms ("the United States is"). Finally, the industrial might that the Union used to overpower the Confederacy laid the groundwork for the industrial wars of the 20th century, which would be fully realized in World War I (see below).
- The Hurricane of 1900 that struck Galveston, Texas sent it into a long decline while turning Houston into a booming port town. NASA and oil would finish the job. The construction of the Houston Ship Channel played a significant role in the shift as well.
- The Great San Francisco Earthquake (1906) for California. Before the quake, San Francisco was the largest city on the West Coast, and Los Angeles' population was less than a million, nowhere near the second largest city in the United States. The quake and the Hollywood boom were instrumental in shifting the population southward.
- A second turning point in The '80s came when San Francisco started attracting computer technology firms, partly due to Apple, and partly due to Berkeley and Stanford's top-notch computing laboratories. Then the Internet went mainstream, and the San Francisco Bay Area is now considered a mecca for computing startups and cutting edge tech. On the downside, the split between the sheltered, highly paid techies and the lower-paid non-technology workers has led to skyrocketing rents, shuttered landmarks, and a nasty cultural divide.
- World War I. Although the American Civil War was arguably the first "industrial" war, World War I was pivotal (and traumatic) for how it oversaw the realization of a total war fueled by industrial production and weaponry. Beyond even military technology and tactics, World War I brought about the collapse of the great autocratic multinational empires that had once dominated Europe's history - Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Austria-Hungary - and made representative democracies based around a nation-state representing one historical/ethnic group the ideal if not the norm (with a couple of big exceptions...). Then, World War I and its aftermath was key in raising nationalist resentments and economic hardships that would nourish the Fascist movement. At the same time it brought about not only the collapse of Tsarist Russia, but the failure of the democratic Russian state that immediately succeeded it and the rise of the Soviet Union, transforming the driving force in world history from the competition between Europe's colonial empires to the struggle between democratic-capitalist, Fascist, and Communist ideologies. Finally, the war gave the world the League of Nations, the doomed but still important precursor to the United Nations.
- The fall of the Ottoman Empire changed, overnight, the cultural and regional landscape of the Middle East. The division of territories between France and England, the rise of Arab Nationalism and other issues of the time, directly paved the way for much of the later conflicts in the region that continue to the present day.
- The Statute of Westminister in 1931, which redefined the relationship between the United Kingdom, the British Monarchy, and the various dominions which had once been colonies, marked the start of the peaceful end of the most widespread empire in human history as The British Empire became the (British) Commonwealth. The Suez Crisis of 1956 and the intervening period of decolonization and independence movements, marked the fading of England as the world's pre-eminent superpower, giving way to America and USSR.
- After World War II (1937/1939-1945) the world system of international relations was restructured drastically, with a new emphasis on not just sovereignty (already codified by the Peace of Westphalia) but (legal) equality between states. The old alliances of Europe were finished (World War I had previously shown how destructive they could be) in favour of new ones like NATO and the United Nations. It also discredited Anti-Semitism (at least in the West) to a great extent, and the led directly to the creation of The European Union. It also saw the end of American isolationism and saw the drastic increase of the US military in all branches.
- Once the world got used to the end of World War II, the Cold War changed things all over again by showing people a very new kind of warfare. The United States and the Soviet Union emerged as superpowers and became the bitterest of rivals, but both of them eventually possessed enough nuclear weapons between them to bring about The End of the World as We Know It. The result? Traditional warfare between the two suddenly wasn't an option—leading to the age of proxy wars and the rise of the intelligence services. In short order, the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was formed in 1947, with the Russian Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti (KGB) following in 1954, followed by three decades of up-and-down tensions as NATO and the Eastern Bloc backed competing factions in nearly every country that wasn't already allied with either of them. It seemed inevitable that the standoff would ultimately climax with World War III. But then...
- On the 13th of September, 1989, a non-Communist government was formed by the Polish parliament, and the Soviet Union declined to force them to do otherwise. This kicked off The Great Politics Mess Up: within weeks, the entity variously called the Eastern Bloc and the Warsaw Pact, the great enemy everyone had been planning to fight in World War III... simply went away. Just over a year later Germany was reunited, and a year after that the Soviet Union itself finally went into the dustbin of history. Western democracies were stunned to discover that the Cold War was over, had never turned hot, and they'd won.
Austin Powers: Oh, smashing, groovy, yay capitalism!
- There's a reason why the combined oral contraceptive pill, first approved by the FDA in 1960, is so often referred to as just "the Pill". Contraception had existed since the dawn of civilization, but the Pill was far more effective than the crude condoms and diaphragms of the past — and more importantly, it gave women full agency in whether or not to get pregnant. It played a large role in the emerging sexual revolution of The '60s, which in turn kicked into overdrive the already-bubbling second wave of the feminist movement and the genesis of the organized LGBT rights movement. A vast number of the social changes of the '60s and '70s can be directly attributed to this one little pill.
- This article
in Time makes the case that an epidemic of rubella in 1964-65 played a large role in the legalization of abortion in the United States and Western Europe, perhaps almost as much as the sexual revolution. Rubella is a fairly mild illness in most people, but pregnant women who catch it often give birth to infants with severe birth defects. As a result, when the epidemic broke out, it led to thousands of 'respectable' (i.e. white, married, middle-class) women getting 'therapeutic' abortions to terminate pregnancies that had a high likelihood of producing babies that would suffer a lifetime of medical problems, if they survived long at all. This effectively broke the stigma that had surrounded abortion, which was previously viewed as something that was done by women who were poor, unwed, and 'deviant'. Less than ten years later, the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade legalized abortion across the United States, and similar laws were passed throughout Western Europe.
- The terrorist attacks of September 11 brought about The War On Terror and redefined the relationship between the U.S. government and the Muslim world. In addition, it also triggered a series of game-changing reforms in the U.S. intelligence community.
openI normally would post it under a related entry, but...(rude edit reasons) Videogame
However, I feel this needs its own.
Marth of the Moon's edit reasons are getting rather inappropriate here
on the page. "Oh you motherfucker" and "Quite the Determinator for your shitposting, aren't you?" are extremely rude and uncalled for.
I will note that the entry he reported is reported for a good reason, it's clearly somebody shoehorning their site in for some form of advertisement of a crack pairing. That in itself is a problem(and that particular tumblr
is now attacking the user I'm reporting too, which is exporting drama). However, the fact that Marth of the Moon is being this rude is the entire reason for the pointless drama in the first place. That is not to say that Globplumber(and apparently is a ban evader of someone?) is not a problem regardless.
openBroken Aesop edit war
BrokenAesop.Western Animation:
- The season three finale, "Magical Mystery Cure", the Cutie Marks of all the Mane Cast are switched, which drives them to want to pursue the wrong special talents, and Twilight has to find a way to fix it. This episode ends with the message that you can only be happy by choosing your own destiny, but this contradicts everything the story has established about destiny itself:
- Cutie Marks in general. Ponies gain their cutie marks when they discover their special talents, but they have no control over what those talents actually are. When they attempt a special talent that isn't dictated by their Cutie Mark, either because they've misinterpreted what their Mark actually means or because they're actively going against it, they fail catastrophically, which means there isn't any choice in a pony's destiny. It's implied that the Cutie Mark Crusaders were able to influence the appearance of their Cutie Marks through hard work and dedication, but "discovering the special talents of those who haven't had their Cutie Marks appear" is still the only thing they've been able to successfully, since everything they've done has been an attempt to do exactly that. Season Five even begins with a villain who uses magic to obscure her victims' Cutie Marks and has them do other jobs, which makes them miserable. If it really were a matter of choice, then Cutie Marks wouldn't be such a big deal.
- Celestia's choice in making Twilight her student, and everything that came afterward, was based on Celestia's knowledge of the meaning of Twilight's Cutie Mark. Everything about her progress was actually foreordained and Celestia tailored her lessons to fit that destiny, not the other way around, including the part where Celestia changed her into an Alicorn without actually asking her if she'd be comfortable with that, which means that Twilight's choices didn't matter because she was obeying Celestia's lessons. Twilight is still happy with it, so clearly having someone decide your destiny for you can't be all that bad.
- This also brings the other Mane Six's choices of destiny into question by extension: for all the hard work they do, they gain a lot of success in their more mundane careers through being carriers of the Elements of Harmony, which they didn't choose, and for some of them, their choice of destiny would be impossible without social and family connections that they lucked into by birth or Twilight Sparkle herself. You may not be happy if you let someone else decide your destiny, but aspects of your future are beyond your control, so you better make the right friends so they'll control those aspects in your favor.
This exact entry was deleted twice before since that's debated if it's the actual Aesop
. And it's a Wall of Text, a red flag. Cut? I asked Is this an example?
but it's been ignored.
If I don't hear back, I'll just condense it down.
Edited by Ferot_DreadnaughtopenWeird trope entry Film
Pokémon Detective Pikachu has a strange, semi-gushy entry on Revisiting the Roots that doesn't seem to fit any of the various cleanup threads, so I brought it here. It reads like it was written by someone dissatisfied with current Pokemon games or someone attempting to justify everything dark in the trailers with evidence from various Pokemon media, while the Detective Pikachu game itself doesn't really have any of that, and Pokemon media after Gen 1 have had those things even though in the franchise as a whole they're uncommon (Team Galactic killed a Clefairy and presumably a bunch of Magikarp, Ghetsis as mentioned tries to attack you directly, a couple Sun and Moon anime episodes were all about people and Pokemon that died, etc.).
"* Revisiting the Roots: The trailers may look out of place with the tone of the main-series games, but they're not too far removed from the anime, manga and games of the original generation, which feature gunsnote An episode of the anime involved the Safari Zone warden utilizing guns heavily, including holding Ash at gunpoint and shooting at Team Rocket, which led to 4Kids skipping over it entirely, profanitynote it's always been in the anime's Japanese dub, realistic violence in Pokémon battlesnote an infamous scene in the manga involves Blue's Charmeleon slicing an Arbok in half and disemboweling it, deathnote besides the aforementioned Arbok, the Lavender Town mission in the Kanto games involves a Mercy Kill on the spirit of a Marowak killed by Team Rocket, and villains using Pokémon to directly attack humans and human citiesnote unlike Mewtwo's destruction of his lab and the siege of Saffron City, non-Pokémon battle violence in the games is either offscreen or unanimated (with some major exceptions, like Ghetsis in Pokémon Black 2 and White 2)."
Any ideas as to what to do with it?
Edited by lalalei2001openEdit War on The Dragon Prince Western Animation
There is a potential edit war brewing on The Dragon Prince YMMV page.
Antidragon has added these two points: Strawman Has a Point:
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- Furthermore, said ballistas prove to be too inaccurate to hit the dragon; the town offered no threat to it whatsoever and nothing was preventing it from simply flying away. It's subsiqent attack seemed more a matter of spite than legitimate self defense, yet Soren still accepts the blame for the resulting damage.
- In Season 2 Episode 7, Soren fires a ballista at the dragon preforming fly-bys on a local village, and later accepts that the resulting damage was his own fault for provoking it. Yet the humans had no idea what the dragon's objectives or motivations were, and the dragon itself had made no attempt to communicate with them (Even if it couldn't speak, as an intelligent species it could have at least tried). Knowing nothing of the dragon's intent, Soren had good reason to fear that the town-destroying juggernaut could change it's mind at any moment.
- When Soren provokes the Dragon in S2 E7 by firing a ballista at it, said ballista proves to be no threat to the beast and nothing was preventing it from flying away. When it subsequently sets the town on fire, the show (and even Soren himself) treat the resulting havoc as his own fault, even though said dragon was apparently acting out of spite rather than self defense.
They were removed by Mr. Death and then Antidragon added them back.
openRude Edit Reasons on Clueless Aesop
Tropers.Doctor_Doom (No idea how to properly format the underscore here) edited Clueless Aesop to an example wholesale
for a rather iffy reason. Basically, the example mentioned Watchmen once, and this prompted the troper in question to not only delete the entry (focusing entirely on the one mention of Watchmen), but also add the statement "With a little bit of knowledge, it's easy to see there is no relation", which comes across as a jab at the previous editor, implying that they lack the knowledge.
This is, in fact, not the first time they did this, as they did it to myself almost a year ago
, removing another entry related to comic books with a lengthy edit reason that includes "The entry also had the pointless and uninformed assertion that the comic was about real life, which didn't work, but its themes worked in context. Due again to the slant of industry commentary, it's clear to anyone that only that part is what's intended. Projecting an imaginary relation with real life doesn't change that. The writer had clearly read *about* KC rather than actually reading it, which would explain the falsities here. Section has been removed."
I took the matter to the Discussion page at the time, and they apologized for their actions. But here we are, now.
Edited by KingZealopenNo Title Web Original
PerpetualJellyfish
made an edit on YMMV.Death Battle saying that the way one character died was meant to make their fans angry. MasterHero
removed their edit because it was biased. PerpetualJellyfish went back and readded it, added more nattery edits, and removed parts of the page that tried to give a more neutral stance on the fight's outcome, with this edit reason:
openMLP the Movie cleanup
Saw this on What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?.Film and... it's just silly. (And what does Robbie Rotten have to do with anything?)
- My Little Pony: The Movie (2017): Between the multiple examples of Getting Crap Past the Radar, a Downer Beginning with scary petrification, an Implied Death Threat, a Not-So-Safe Harbor where the heroes were almost Made a Slave, a depressing sequence of Canterlot's population enslaved, drowning (Robbie Rotten lampshades it here
), a severe Plot-Mandated Friendship Failure, a severe Disney Death (almost on par with Disney itself), and a Family-Unfriendly Disney Villain Death, it's easy for parents to wonder if this movie is appropriate for young children.
openFranchise Original Sin - Final Fantasy
Tropers.Another Duck removed a large section of the FranchiseOriginalSin.Final Fantasy page, for reasons that I dispute.
His edit reason was: "This isn't a flaw that's been exaggerated or left unchecked in later games. It's always been there, and overall character design has been a positive trait of the series."
The two of us then disputed this in P Ms and got nowhere. I'll try to summarize the arguments.
Firstly, the second point he raises is something I argued against with cited examples of journalists, editorials, forum posts, and comments which hold mostly negative opinions on the series' character designs from FFX and beyond. Naturally, FF is a very widespread series, so you'll always have people who disagree, but the onset of complaints en masse didn't start until FFX. Duck retorted this by saying that he could also find links of dissenting opinion to refute me, but when I asked that he do so, he refused for lack of time.
On the second point, I explained that the reason the issue about character design was overlooked in previous games is because in-game graphics did not match the design of the characters due to technical limitations. When the hardware caught up to the art in FFX, that's where the complaints started. He replied "The artwork of FFVII and FFVIII, for instance, isn't that detailed, and it's reasonably accurately represented in the FM Vs. The artwork of the games prior to that, including the character portraits, is far more detailed" which, again, is addressed in the example itself. Tetsuya Nomura's original art style was specifically chosen to be simple because of the graphical limitations of the PSX console, but in later games, he went much more heavily into detail because the hardware could keep up. Incidentally, this is also why people have complained about his REDESIGNS of the FFVII and FFVIII characters in the remakes, sequels or spin-offs such as Kingdom Hearts.
He then asked me whether or not the issue in question "overshadowed" other aspects of the game, and said that the Laconic's wording means those aspects must be "overshadowed". I said that I don't agree with his interpretation of either definition, to which he called my argument "semantics", and when I disagreednote Because he is literally making a semantic argument., he told me "I get the impression you don't understand what 'semantics' means".
Edited by NubianSatyressopenYMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017 Western Animation
SenorCornholio made very long entries to the YMMV page for the G4 MLP movie about They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot by outlining an entire alternate scenario for the movie/final battle, which i don't think is how that trope works, as well as a very long edit about Twilight's friends sucking with a lot of potholes.
"** The fact that Twilight's magic is completely limited in this movie ends up resulting in plenty of scenes where it could have helped them out, but didn't. As an example, after Twilight's screwing everything up and chewing out her friends results in her being captured, she could have stayed long enough to listen to Tempest Shadow's Villain Song, realized she failed friendship, used one of her various self-inflicted spells to escape (notice how the cage she's in only resists magic, but never prevents it), and declares that she'll save Tempest from what she became, all in time to meet up with her friends for the Final Battle, which also would have led to her realizing that friendship really did bring everyone together. It could have also resulted in a climactic battle with Tempest where Twilight tries to convince her that she's better than she thinks she is, leading to a Heel–Face Turn on her part like it does in the movie proper. But because she doesn't, she ends up as the Damsel in Distress that needs to be saved, and as an added kick in the teeth, her magic is stolen so she can't even try fighting anyway."
"** The Mane Five aside of Twilight can be seen as this, namely during their argument scene. Most of them did virtually nothing to help the situation involving Tempest Shadow and the Storm King get any better, either providing seemingly nothing or outright making the situation worse like with Rainbow Dash's impulsive Sonic Rainboom on Celaeno's ship, and especially Pinkie Pie's antics in Klugetown. And what's more is that they're exceptionally tongue-in-cheek about their screw-ups, like ruining several anthropomorphic creatures' homes and nearly getting five pirates and a cat man killed isn't a big deal. This leads to Twilight attempting to steal the Pearl of Transformation and arguing with her friends which, to be fair, the argument does make a point about how both Twilight and her friends messed up. However, after Twilight says her Wham Line, the five of them head off to leave Twilight alone, still fully aware that Tempest Shadow is after her, and only after she's captured do they go back to caring about her. When Twilight told Pinkie she'd be better off with without friends like them, maybe there was more truth to that statement than the writing staff realized."
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MyLittlePonyTheMovie2017
In general the page also has stuff like "* What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?: Between the multiple examples of Getting Crap Past the Radar, a Downer Beginning with scary petrification, an Implied Death Threat, a Not-So-Safe Harbor where the heroes were almost Made a Slave, a depressing sequence of Canterlot's population enslaved, drowning (Robbie Rotten lampshades it here
), a severe Plot-Mandated Friendship Failure, and a Family-Unfriendly Disney Villain Death, it's easy for parents to wonder if this movie is appropriate for young children. Then at the same time, the show has done the same concepts many times before and still managed to hold a TV-Y rating, and the movie still manages to be as simple and sugary as well, so once again it all comes down to one's personal interpretation." which contradicts itself multiple times.
openthis is probably going to sound weird... can we make People Sit On Chickens?
Can we make an Administrivia page that explains how just because something is uncommon, it's presence in media is not necessarily a trope. I explicated this just now in a TLP draft with the People Sit On Chickens thing (people commonly sit on different kinds of chairs, this person sits on a chicken instead, is Not A Trope). Like people don't often have Irish Accents, but simply having one is not a trope. There are ways for an Irish accent to be used for storytelling purposes, but just having one is not. I think having an administrivia page to say "Uncommon does not equal Trope" would be useful, because I think a lot of people think both that 1. being unusual in real life makes fictional appearances notable and 2. since Too Rare To Trope implies that things that are uncommon but not rare can be troped, they are automatically tropes.
Also, Too Rare To Trope does not cover this. The TLP I am specifically talking about is called Non-Binary, and is currently "This Work Has A Non-Binary Character" — that is not rare, in modern times it is not particularly uncommon, but the OP is saying that since non-binary characters are not as common as male and female characters, it is a trope. Obviously, how common something chairs is compared to an equally chairs similar thing has no effect on it being less chairs in itself. It's like doing nothing but sitting, but on chickens this time. (Now, if you're doing it to hide the chickens or to incubate their eggs, or because it's a giant mutant that you've trained in order to ride...)
openInclusion of DesignatedHero in VillainProtagonist
26 Dec, THEKHAN added an example in Villain Protagonist. As the own example admitted that this was an example of Designated Hero(aka-a character that, despite his lack of heroic qualities is, where the history is concerned, a hero), i removed this with "Designated hero = not a villain" as edit reason. 1 Jan, THEKHAN readded the example with the following edit reason: "Yeah right. Stop defending a badly made plot by a high school misantrophe, would you? She and her entire race are villains, full stop. Full stop. The fanbase and the author itself claims that it has no real villains, but that's only really because the Drow are the creator's pets and are evil for the sake of being evil, but unlike the Dn D drow nothing about their society requires them to do any of the shit they do"
openreporting review
This review
is about the work's TV Tropes article, rather than the work itself. I think I reported it way back when (I assume so, since I can't click the flag button) but there's been no change. Can I report it again somewhere?
openIs someone trying to ban-evade through me?
If someone PM's you telling you to add some trope examples, but that person has been suspended, is that person trying to ban evade through you? I've heard of ban evading, and I think this person is trying to do that through me, but I'm not sure, so I came here to hopefully get an answer. I have not responded to these PM's (I've been sent at least two such PM's from the same person), because I know this person has been suspended and I'm not about to get my own self suspended a second time.
Edited by mouschilightopenUltimate Nick Fury Print Comic
I have made some edits in The Ultimates at the entry on Nick Fury (for those unfamiliar, the Nick Fury of the MCU is a direct adaptation of this character). I removed some examples and shortened others. First, Nick Fury is not a villain, so "Adaptational Villainy" is completely out of place. Other tropes are filled with complaining, Alternative Character Interpretation and even actual lies (for example, a trope says "he's a self-serving asshole", but his actions, right or wrong, have always been motivated by national or worldwide security, not personal gain). tvtropersuser1 simply restored everything, without even an edit summary, and ignored my request to take things to the discussion page.
openQuestionable Example?
From YMMV.Star Wars under Fandom Berserk Button:
- * The anvilicious sociopolitical messages of the sequel trilogy can get on many fans' nerves. While the most obvious reason is because of the anviliciousness itself, a possibly bigger reason is that it causes an unnecessary political divide in the Star Wars fanbase. The sequels' hatedom is largely composed of people who oppose their (well-intentioned) progressive messages ('nuff said), which causes any fan who dislikes the sequels, even if they agree with their messages, to be lumped with the haters and their often rabid and regressive worldviews. Whether intentional or not, this sort of political polarization and "guilt-tripping" of people who dislike the sequels is frowned upon by many fans who, you know, just want to enjoy Star Wars.
Is this a valid example? What messages does it have that weren't problematic in prior works?
openExample?
From YMMV.The Last Jedi under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
- A very divisive case: there are fans who feel like the story would have been improved if Finn had been allowed to make his Heroic Sacrifice, since it would not only show major Character Development on his part in being willing to die for the Resistance rather than running away from joining it, but it would have been the second of a one-two audience gut-punch following Snoke: first the supposed Big Bad dies in the second movie, and then the supposed male lead. Others, of course, don't want Finn to die and would have hated that direction, hence why it's divisive.
Normally, I'd say the admitting it's divisive and the last part explaining why some don't think it's the case would warrant removal as it argues with itself. But there being an argument for They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot (which lacks objective misuse far as I can tell) suggests it is a valid example. This possible open-endedness (even by YMMV standards) hi-lighted why this trope is dangerously close to complaining.
What to do.

I decided to clean up a No Export for You entry for Valkyria Chronicles III for being complainy, but I'm not too sure about leaving links to fan translations. Don't we typically don't allow that?
The entry in question: