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openMisaimed Fandom for American Psycho
A couple days ago, dartheal removed the following Misaimed Fandom entry from YMMV.American Psycho:
openSelf-reporting involvement in Edit War
On Oct 22nd, keyblade333 added this example
to YMMV.Tales Of Arise.
To summarize, there's a scene in the game where one character stops another from killing a villain to avenging her parents, despite he himself having gotten revenge on said character earlier. Fans felt this was vastly hypocritical, but the story goes on to say that he wanted to stop her because (A) she had too much "hatred in her heart" and (B) he felt Vengeance Feels Empty after having gotten his own revenge earlier.
To me, the entry came across too much like Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, so I edited it
with the hopes of explaining why said moral didn't "click".
Keyblade edited my rewrite again here
and I edited here
, stating "I still don't think this wording is quite right. Not trying to Edit War, so if there's still an issue, I think we shold go to Discussion. But hopefully, that won't be necessary and this edit can find a happy medium." That was probably a mistake.
Keyblade did indeed bring it back up on the Discussion page
, stating that they had "no issues with it" but made a confusing remark about mentioning 'this is what was meant to be the taken response' and 'providing context'.
Then, last night, Tropers.gorobestboy came in and reset everything
back to keyblade's original edit, stating:
I commented out the example entirely and then moved the entire issue to Discussion because now we were smack in the middle of what I feared: a full-blown Edit War.
Here is my most recent
response on the Discussion page for the record.
openUnusual entry on YMMV page
YMMV.Boys Dont Cry has this entry for Misaimed Fandom:
- Most reviewers loved it, but while sympathetic to the character, referred to Brandon as female and seemed to think it was a story about a lesbian who felt she had to pretend to be a boy because of homophobia. One reviewer even said something like "in disguising herself, ironically, this young woman helped other girls find themselves." In real life, Brandon was transgender, but also your average somewhat rugged young man and had the kind of opinions on feminism and lesbianism expected from a young man born in Nebraska in the early seventies.
The last paragraph of that entry seems to entirely be speculative. I searched Brandon Teena and found nothing to suggest he had something against feminism or lesbians. His WP page states that he was against Christian views on abstinence and LGBT (source 8 on the article, if you're curious).
Permission to remove that part? I know little about Brandon but wasn't able to find anything suggesting what the entry pertains.
openTroper keeps adding length and negativity reduarding a character they seem not to like.
Hi, I don't know if this is the place to bring this. But this troper Nyame keeps adding length to entry and negativity about Felicity Smoak from Arrow. For example they took this entry on YMMV.Arrow's Creator's Pet:
- Felicity Smoak since the start of the third season. In Seasons 1 and 2, she was an Adorkable IT Girl with an unrequited crush on the main character, and the source of a lot of the show's humor. As of the third season, she has supplanted Laurel Lance (Green Arrow's iconic love interest from the source material) as the female lead and love interest, has taken on several of the traits that once led to Laurel and Thea being considered The Scrappy, receives more screen time than any other character on the show aside from Oliver, is consistently depicted as being in the right even when she is being unreasonable, receives Character Shilling from seemingly every other character on the show — including the antagonists, and has become a Spotlight-Stealing Squad with a good chunk of Seasons 3 and 4 being dedicated to her subplots. In comparison, the characters of Roy, Laurel and Thea are pushed Out of Focus despite becoming the show's incarnations of Arsenal, Black Canary and Speedy; and Diggle (the show's true fan-favourite character) only received a proper subplot in Season 4 because it was tied so closely to the main plot and, outside of that, he didn't receive that much attention either. Season 4 then opens with The Reveal that a major character would killed off by the end of the season, and Felicity was one of two characters deemed untouchable by the writers — the other being the main character. Oh, and the creators (specifically the showrunners and most of the writers) openly acknowledge that she's their favorite character.
and changed
it to this:
- Felicity Smoak since the start of the third season. In Seasons 1 and 2, she was an Adorkable IT Girl with an unrequited crush on the main character, and the source of a lot of the show's humor. As of the third season, she has supplanted Laurel Lance (Green Arrow's iconic love interest from the source material) as the female lead and love interest, has taken on several of the traits that once led to Laurel and Thea being considered The Scrappy, receives more screen time than any other character on the show aside from Oliver, is consistently depicted as being in the right even when she is being unreasonable, receives Character Shilling from seemingly every other character on the show — including the antagonists, and has become a Spotlight-Stealing Squad with a good chunk of Seasons 3 and 4 being dedicated to her subplots. In comparison, the characters of Roy, Laurel and Thea are pushed Out of Focus despite becoming the show's incarnations of Arsenal, Black Canary and Speedy; and Diggle (the show's true fan-favourite character) only received a proper subplot in Season 4 because it was tied so closely to the main plot and, outside of that, he didn't receive that much attention either. Season 4 then opens with The Reveal that a major character would killed off by the end of the season, and Felicity was one of two characters deemed untouchable by the writers — the other being the main character. Oh, and the creators (specifically the showrunners and most of the writers) openly acknowledge that she's their favorite character. This treatment continued all the way up to Season Six, which eventually culminated in Felicity becoming the most hated character in the entire Arrowverse thanks to the infamous double wedding. It took until Season Seven, after Mericle was fired and Guggenheim Kicked Upstairs, for the writers to finally get the message, stop treating her like this, and re-rail her character into someone tolerable, let alone likable.
or this
Abandon Shipping one:
- Supporters of Oliver/Felicity have been steadily jumping ship across Seasons 3 and 4 as their relationship became more and more toxic — more than any other relationship on the show (including Oliver/Laurel, which saw pre-series Oliver cheat on Laurel with her sister). For some, this is not only because of the increasing drama and angst in a formerly subdued, drama-free relationship but also because they feel Olicity takes up screen time better spent on other plots and characters. Their unnecessary conflict concerning Oliver's secret son William has also turned off a lot of fans, with the audience divided over blaming Oliver for lying to his fiancee when he specifically promised he'd stop or blaming Felicity for breaking up with him when she's kept secrets herself, which caused her to lose supporters. Season 5 did not help fan-perception of the ship, as the temporary relationships Oliver and Felicity had that season were far less toxic than their own and made people question why they even got back together at the end of the season considering how badly the initial relationship ended. What absolutely killed the pairing's popularity, however, was the ending to the 2017 crossover Crisis on Earth-X: the infamous double wedding, which was hated by everyone except the most diehard of Olicity shippers. After that, only Olicity's most hardcore supporters bother to defend the pairing these days — everyone else, including regular Olicity shippers and fans who didn't give a damn about Arrow or Olicity, came to outright despise it.
- Supporters of Oliver/Felicity have been steadily jumping ship across Seasons 3 and 4 as their relationship became more and more toxic — more than any other relationship on the show (including Oliver/Laurel, which saw pre-series Oliver cheat on Laurel with her sister). For some, this is not only because of the increasing drama and angst in a formerly subdued, drama-free relationship but also because they feel Olicity takes up screen time better spent on other plots and characters. Their unnecessary conflict concerning Oliver's secret son William has also turned off a lot of fans, with the audience divided over blaming Oliver for lying to his fiancee when he specifically promised he'd stop or blaming Felicity for breaking up with him when she's kept secrets herself, which caused her to lose supporters. Season 5 did not help fan-perception of the ship, as the temporary relationships Oliver and Felicity had that season were far less toxic than their own and made people question why they even got back together at the end of the season considering how badly the initial relationship ended. What absolutely killed the pairing's popularity, however, was the ending to the 2017 crossover Crisis on Earth-X: the infamous double wedding, which was hated by everyone except the most diehard of Olicity shippers. After that, only Olicity's most hardcore supporters bother to defend the pairing these days — everyone else, including regular Olicity shippers and fans who didn't give a damn about Arrow or Olicity, came to outright despise it. Even after Felicity got Rescued from the Scrappy Heap in later seasons and became more of a Base-Breaking Character, many fans admit that they still believe that Oliver and Felicity aren't a good fit for each other and that they still don't support the pairing.
And their edit history seems to be full of things like this
though also a lot of legit examples without complaining also to be fair. Some examples:
- They add negativity to a Base Breaking Character entry
and length to a rewrite done on the cleanup thread
.
- The make an entry
for LovingAShadow.Fan Works which is more about their Alternate Character Interpretation of the show's version of Felicity. Though this was later cut by me
after it was decided by the Is this an example? thread
to be to general.
- They add negativity about Felicity and the ship to an originally neutral
Launcher of a Thousand Ships entry to about Oliver. Though again for transparency this was also edited
by me
.
Again, I don't know if this means anything or if this should be reported here or not. I just find it strange.
Edited by Bullmanopen YMMV The Batman (2022)
User Bio Yugi removed these entries from "They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot" justifying it as trying to "pare down too many entries" to "what could have actually happened instead of wishful fanfic".
- In the last 10 minutes of the movie, it's revealed that one of the guys behind the Riddler masks is the same guy that in the funeral scene ranted about the "rich, privileged assholes" that ran Gotham. While this is still a major "oh shit" moment for Batman and one that changes his outlook upon the way he's changing Gotham, it would have been far more impactful if he was instead the guy he saved at the start and actually listened to Batman uttering the phrase to the terrified thugs that were about to beat him up. This would not only enhance the already present feeling that Bruce is doing very little to combat a system corrupted to the core, but that he's also sending the wrong message to the people he's supposed to be inspiring and saving. Alternatively, the kid he spared at the beginning could have helped him in the finale, cementing Batman's turn from a figure of fear to one who inspires and helps Gotham's population.
- Related to the above, the Riddler mentions that he isn't much for physical action and mainly relies on his brain. This could easily have set up for the previous murders to have been carried out by some of his followers, with Riddler only orchestrating things. Hints could have been placed in the movie to this possibility, offering an alternate means for realizing the danger in the finale.
- A minor case but some feel Batman should have revealed his identity to Selina Kyle at least near the end. Since Selina mentions Bruce Wayne’s name as one of those "corrupt, white, privileged" people she clearly despises, Batman coming out and revealing himself to her after sometime could have added some extra tension to their growing romance, as well as making her realize that they are both orphans who similarly lost their loved ones to corruption. The set-up is there for it as she mentions Bruce's name in disgust at least twice, but nothing is done with this despite the potential.
- Similarly, Bruce Wayne is in-universe seen as a reclusive and apathetic billionaire, who many characters make assumptions about without knowing because he's seemingly got zero public profile. Mayor-elect Reál proposes he should take part in philanthropy or local politics because of his family legacy, Falconé sees him as someone he can easily exploit and has been for years, and Riddler targets him in-part out of petty jealously but also because the Renewal program has been misappropriated due to his apathy. As the film deals with Batman's evolution from Terror Hero to Hope Bringer, it would have made sense for the climax to see him establish his classic "Bruce Wayne, billionaire Philanthropist" persona, or at least to make efforts to use his wealth more responsibly for Gotham's sake. Instead, while Bruce talks about bringing hope, it appears this amounts to reframing his Batman persona and the film ends without "Bruce" making any public efforts to help the city.
I don't want to engage on edit warring, so I came here to ask if it's ok to restore them or if Bio Yu Gi is right. By the trope standards, the possibility of the story following into the direction has to be stablished (which was done for all these examples, they don't come out of nowhere), but the work ends up doing nothing/little with them, so the "wishful fanfic" justification feels like the troper just disagreed with the examples here and wanted to remove them.
open Unilateral Change to "StrawMisogynist"
In January of last year, a troper changed the definition of the "Straw Misogynist" trope to indicate it as a sub-trope of the trope "Politically Incorrect Villain". (And removed a previous indication that examples were "almost always" examples of that trope.) No edit reason was given.
Being, I think, unsure of whether the change was valid or not, I brought up the matter in the "Unilateral Changes Cleanup" thread. There the person who made the edit stated that they didn't know why they had done it (due to the interval of time since then), and to revert it if it was deemed incorrect.
No other comments were given on the matter in the thread, however, leaving me a little uncertain on how to proceed.
My inclination is to revert the change—but to do so myself, with no consensus, feels a little unilateral on my part.
So, I bring this here for consensus: should I revert this change?
Here's a link to the edit in question:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.StrawMisogynist#edit28310966
openWMG Editing Videogame
There's been discussion over on WMG.Marvel Rivals that's called attention to some issues people have with the page, myself included. Being a hero shooter full of marvel characters, there's a big section on the page where ppl can speculate on who the next heroes are gonna be, with some making guesses about gameplay, character interactions and what role the devs will give them. The vast majority of it, however, has just been people throwing a bunch of marvel characters' names onto the list with no further elaboration or WMG regarding the game itself. And as a result it's just created this very bloated list with zero substance to the majority of it. It elicits the same feelings for me as a regular tropes page having a ton of ZCE entries. But I don't know if mods or other editors are approaching WMG with the same scrutiny as a tropes page, so idk how to further proceed with this issue. And it's not like it's an issue unique to this one page.
Edited by IkeaHanopenPossible Troll
So a user by the name of bradyreino recently added some blatantly untrue things to the Total Drama main page (edits found here
) and while myself and another user removed them, is this something we should keep an eye on?
openSEED Freedom edit war (repeat offender)
driller is once again
edit warring under YMMV.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom.
- Esoteric Happy Ending: Foundation has been defeated and completely neutralized as a threat, hooray! Except multiple nukes were dropped across Eurasian territories, Requiem was allowed to cut multiple bloody swaths across multiple countries unimpeded, multiple riots were instigated, Many sympathizers jumped at the idea of Coordinator supremacy (although it's very likely they were already under Foundation's payroll), and hundreds of thousands are dead as a result, with the only other bright spot being that Blue Cosmos might have been finally eradicated alongside their leader Michael (which hems on if that was their last bastion or not), which could mean they're no longer able to continue their horrific attacks in the aftermath.
They added this, Lone Courier 0 removed citing "It's acknowledged to be a bittersweet ending and not a truly happy one, so it feels unnecessary to add." (Which I agree with and took to cleanup, but got no feedback on.) driller added it back under its new name without edit reason.
- Allegedly Optimistic Ending: The Accords have been defeated, Foundation's ambitions have been halted, and everyone is happy with their respective partners. Clearly everything ended perfectly... Except Thousands, if not millions, are dead as a result of multiple nukes being launched and Requiem sweeping through different countries, relationships between Coordinators and Naturals are still shown to be heavily skewed, and the novel reveals that Blue Cosmos STILL hasn't been eliminated and continues to make terrorist attacks. Arguably the events of the movie have left Cosmic Era is a far worse state than it has ever been in up to this point.
Omega Nemesis 13 defeated it citing "Stop trying to add this, just worried with a different trope. It can't be alleged if the story itself acknowledges these things."
driller still edit warring, along with their other suspect edits. Should something more be done?
openAdding memes that bash a rival game?
First, I don't know what to do for now regarding GRD's edits on YMMV.Wuthering Waves, as seen in this edit history
.
For context, there is indeed a Fandom Rivalry going on between fans of Wuthering Waves and Genshin Impact because the former is labeled as a "Genshin Clone" and had an unfortunate messy launch.
These are the Memetic Mutation entries GRD has added:
- "DEV'S LISTENED!" ExplanationBecause of the sheer amount of optimization issues and bugs, not to mention a plot and dialogue that most found to be...lame. A lot of WuWa players, specifically content creators, started making videos on how the developers of Wuthering Waves, Kuro Games, are "listening to player's feedback in order to fix the game." Detractors immediately ran with this, making memes and mocking them since it is not that far off from a coping mechanism.
- "Why would Genshin do this?"/"Psshhh....Hoyoverse spy here...." ExplanationA meme relating to WuWa's rivalry with Genshin Impact. But whenever something bad happens in Wuthering Waves, expect people to sarcastically type this to make fun of WuWa fans accusing miHoYo of sabotage.
- Genshin killer? No. Genshin symbiosis? Yes.ExplanationBecause of how unoptimised Wuthering Waves was, players from the CN region started to shitpost that the only way to properly optimize WuWa was to use Genshin's cache cleaner to run in the background to properly play the game. The whole idea of using your rival's far more optimized cache cleaner in order to run your game properly was so absurd - like some sort of bizarre software symbiosis - that both the Genshin and WuWa communities found it to be absolutely hilarious in all the wrong ways. It has to be seen to be believed.
- Stuttering Waves/Withering Waves/etc ExplanationAnother set of memes poking fun at Wuthering Waves....notorious framerate and performance optimization issues. Much derision and mockery was made at the game's expanse.
There's a dilemma here. On one hand, most of these memes have already spread enough that simple Google Searching will prove that they exist, but on the other hand, their current explanations only come off as bashing Wuthering Waves more in order to praise Genshin Impact. I think we can keep at least some of them but either trim down the bashing or rewrite them to be more neutral, especially because some memes (like "Genshin Symbiosis") are shared between the two fandoms despite the rivalry because they find it hilarious enough.
The other edit that GRD made in YMMV.Wuthering Waves is adding and crosswicking a Fandom Rivalry entry with Tower of Fantasy, which is mostly okay (because it's true that there's also a rivalry between the two games), but again, it also mentions Genshin at the end.
At first, I would've just wanted to fix the formatting or grammar, but the way GRD currently wrote them came off as very negative. I would've also either PM'd GRD or took the examples to the Memes cleanup thread
first, but looking at the ATT, several posts were already about GRD, such as making other questionable MemeticMutation additions
, Memes about Content Leaks
, or duplicating the Memes
of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance.
Second, memes that revolve around Fandom Rivalry aren't exclusive to a specific troper like GRD or games like Wuthering Waves and Genshin Impact. If you look at Memes.Honkai Star Rail, for example, the "Genshin could never" meme talks about a Fandom Rivalry between Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail because the latter received many QoL features that fans of the former have been wishing. However, the meme's explanation itself also says both fandoms have grown sick of the joke.
Looking at the edit history
, it was added by Atmos Blitzer and edited by Skye Ride 001.
I don't know if adding that is okay even if it doesn't sound like bashing the game, as the header or note in Memes.Honkai Star Rail says "Fandom drama on any social media platform, as it's considered drama importation." isn't allowed...
Also, just like what I said in the Wuthering Waves part above, the "Genshin Could Never" meme is indeed being used and a simple search on the Internet proves it.
Third, Memes.Genshin Impact already had several Memes about Fandom Rivalry too, which again, mention Honkai: Star Rail and Wuthering Waves.
- Your feedback will be used to improve Honkai: Star Rail instead ExplanationStar Rail seems to have corrected most of Genshin's shortcomings. The Trailblazer has meaningful alternate dialogue options, and possesses a meta-defining Harmony kit. Trailblaze Power (the Resin equivalent) has a higher cap (240), faster recharge (1 per 6 minutes) and an automatic overcap mechanic (Reserve Trailblaze Power) instead of being wasted if it hits the cap. The free Battle Pass grants an item that guarantees the main stat of a Relic (Artifact equivalents). There are three endgame modes: Forgotten Hall (standard Spiral Abyss equivalent), Simulated Universe (roguelike) and Pure Fiction (multi-target Spiral Abyss equivalent)— the last of which salvages multi-target characters who were left out in an anti-boss endgame meta. The reward for 300 standard banner pulls is a free standard banner 5★ unit of the player's choice. Celebratory rewards are also far more generous, including a free and powerful limited 5★ unit (Dr. Ratio) for all players in celebration of Star Rail winning multiple awards in 2023. While many of these can be attributed to Star Rail being a new game on a clean slate, players wonder why corresponding quality-of-life, endgame and reward improvements don't seem to be coming to Genshin.
- Genshin could never ExplanationA related meme that began spreading like wildfire after the announcement of a free Dr. Ratio during Star Rail's 1.6 special program. Many Star Rail and former Genshin players gloats at how Genshin could never do what Star Rail does better. However, it also depends on who should respond to as it can piss off Genshin players and some Star Rail players who is still playing Genshin of which they are many.
- Genshin could never... launch a game in this stateExplanationIn addition to the Star Rail fanbase, the Wuthering Waves fandom also frequently used that phrase to generate hype for their game as a "Genshin killer" that was superior combat, endgame and more generous developers. However, Wuthering Waves' release on the 23rd of May, 2024 was riddled with controversy. The game was clearly not ready for release due to its numerous glitches, bugs, performance issues and hilariously bad localisation. The "Genshin killer"'s flop caused many players to reflect back on Genshin's extremely smooth and almost bug-less launch back in 2020, with "Genshin could never" being repurposed to praise Genshin instead.
- Genshin is the stepchild of Mihoyo's games ExplanationStar Rail improving on the standard set by Genshin on top of generous free rewards such as the aforementioned free Dr. Ratio has caused some players to make this joke/comment about the differences in management of both games.
- Genshin finally could ExplanationThe Version 4.7 Developer's Discussion announced a surprise increase of the Original Resin cap to 200, which finally allows players to log in and consume Resin once a day without risking an overcap. Next, the Version 4.7 livestream formally revealed Imaginarium Theater, the first new permanent endgame activity since launch. Combined with the unoptimized launch of Wuthering Waves in the same time period, players cheered how Genshin was finally stepping up on gameplay improvements and showing its polish relative to competitors.
- Genshin could never ExplanationA related meme that began spreading like wildfire after the announcement of a free Dr. Ratio during Star Rail's 1.6 special program. Many Star Rail and former Genshin players gloats at how Genshin could never do what Star Rail does better. However, it also depends on who should respond to as it can piss off Genshin players and some Star Rail players who is still playing Genshin of which they are many.
- The World of Warcraft of gacha games / Genshin wins by doing absolutely nothingExplanationBeing by far the most prominent gacha game and considered the representative of the genre, frequent memes have popped up comparing Genshin's influence to that of WoW, deservedly so. Likewise, memes also emerged comparing "Genshin killers" to "WoW killers" due to the many open world action RPG gacha games that attempted to challenge Genshin, all predictably failing. The most famous being that of Tower of Fantasy and Wuthering Waves, both releasing with numerous bugs and unstable performance, the former having already fallen into obscurity as of 2024 and the latter being additionally criticised for its writing, localisation problems and monotonous dubbing.
- Genshin killer? No. Genshin symbiosis? Yes.ExplanationBecause of how unoptimised Wuthering Waves was, players from the CN region started to shitpost that the only way to properly optimise WuWa was to use Genshin's cache cleaner to run in the background to properly play the game. The whole idea of using your rival's far more optimised cache cleaner in order to run your game properly was so absurd - like some sort of bizarre software symbiosis - that both the Genshin and WuWa communities found it to be absolutely hilarious in all the wrong ways. It has to be seen to be believed.
- Genshin killer? No. Genshin symbiosis? Yes.ExplanationBecause of how unoptimised Wuthering Waves was, players from the CN region started to shitpost that the only way to properly optimise WuWa was to use Genshin's cache cleaner to run in the background to properly play the game. The whole idea of using your rival's far more optimised cache cleaner in order to run your game properly was so absurd - like some sort of bizarre software symbiosis - that both the Genshin and WuWa communities found it to be absolutely hilarious in all the wrong ways. It has to be seen to be believed.
Like the Star Rail memes page, Memes.Genshin Impact also has a note saying that it disallows Fandom Drama.
At this rate, I'm also inclined to know what the editors of the Memes.Genshin Impact and Memes.Honkai Star Rail pages count as "Fandom Drama". I mean, why bother putting a notice like that on a Memes subpage only to later add and crosswick Memes about Fandom Rivalry?
Edited by DanteVinopen Questionable deleted example
This was deleted from YMMV.Pokemon Sun And Moon:
- Common Knowledge: Many point to Lusamine being a bad and abusive mother, when the game itself heavily implies that Nihilego's neurotoxins heavily affected her mind, mostly causing her to become obssessed with Ultra Beasts, particularly Nihilego. Not helping the fact that her husband mysteriously vanished sometime prior. There's likewise no real evidence of her being abusive towards her children. At most, controlling of Lillie and dismissive of Gladion. In the post-game, Gladion himself states Lusamine's change was the result of Nihilego.
The edit reason was "Lusamine literally insults her children and treats them with scorn. Verbal abuse is still abuse. Stop placing all the blame on an innocent Pokémon acting on instinct to excuse this vile woman’s behavior. I have suffered from verbal abuse by my own mother and it has deeply affected me, and I see a lot of her behavior reflected in Lusamine."
My issue is what was supposed to be the "Common Knowledge", that she wasn't shown as directly abusive under Nihilego's neurotoxin (which is untrue), or that she was abusive even without said influence (also untrue as objectively portrayed otherwise, but has fans disagree covered by UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Pokemon), or about the extent of her abuse being speculation/Fanon as opposed to clearly shown (the difference between Fanon/CK is an issue I've noticed)? That would determine the validity of the deletion.
opennew troper with seeming fetish-motivated editing
All of Summerhouse's limited number of edits seem to revolve around nude scenes in some way (particularly the Spider-Man 3 scene where Spidey pulls the Venom suit off himself in the bell tower), and they also posted a negative-effort TLP draft called Symbolic nudity
. Got me scratchin' my head.
openPotential popcorning creator pages
Today, I stumbled upon Gerry Tesch and Marina Terkulova. These are the parents of Gloria Tesch, who is the author the terrible vanity-published Maradonia Saga. All three creator pages were made by Pony Boy and lack tropes or sections listing what they've worked on. Gloria is fine as a creator page as long as someone makes a section listing her works, but I'm not so convinced for her parents.
My problem is twofold. For one, in addition to the pages being very barebones and self-isolated, I don't know if they need creator pages. Gerry at least directed Maradonia and the Shadow Empire, which is also a terrible vanity project as you might imagine, and it non-specifically says he worked on German writing, so maybe there's something there. Marina absolutely does not need a creator page though, since the only thing she's done is make the illustrations for her daughter's books. For two, they just seem to exist to document controversies surrounding these infamous books. They're written neutrally, but there's this sort of undercurrent around these pages existing at all.
Can I cutlist those two pages, or is there enough to salvage something?
Edited by MurlocAggroBopenRepeat AutoEroticTroping offense Webcomic
I ended up coming across the page TearJerker.Sonic Into Across And Beyond, as the main page has come up in the related query for another work I follow.
This would not be a problem if not for the following two reasons:
- The sole contributor to the article is Motorbike User 43, who is also the author of this fic.
- This person has already been suspended before
for Auto-Erotic Troping.
Though I hate to throw another user under the bus (they've consistently reacted very poorly to being called out for policy violations, self-flagellating rather than trying to improve), I draw the line at behavior indistinguishable from ignorance.
Edited by TrocyteVopenI edit warred by mistake.
So, this is a weird. I removed
this from Trivia.Snow White 2025:
- Troubled Production: Despite not having been released yet, this film has been marred by a lot of negative press, mainly having to do with drama both on and off the set that some would perceive as "woke".
- Much of the trouble centered around comments made by and about Rachel Zegler, who was already getting some flak for being non-white actress playing a character who had "skin white as snow." In an interview from the D23 Expo in 2022, Zegler brought up that she'd only seen the original film once and hated it, described the Prince as a "stalker" who would be replaced with a new character named Jonathan (played by Andrew Burnap), and said that Snow White's arc will involve her learning to become a strong leader instead of looking for romance; she also teased the possibility that Jonathan might be written out altogether. Director Marc Webb has also alleged that she'd been hard to work with on set, saying that she mocked him for directing The Amazing Spider-Man and demanded as little screentime with Burnap as possible. These comments and allegations have painted Zegler among detractors as a "spoiled brat" who wants to promote shallow view of feminism that prioritizes power over love.
- Upon the film's announcement, dwarf actor Peter Dinklage denounced the original story as bring "backwards" for its depiction of "seven dwarves living in a cave", prompting Disney to issue a statement that they're working with members of the dwarf community. Dinklage subsequently received criticism from said community, interpreting his comments as him speaking unduly on their behalf and costing them roles. In July 2023, a leaked photo from the set revealed seven stand-in actors of different genders and ethnicities (only one of whom had dwarfism), leading to speculation that the dwarfs would be replaced with seven "creatures" with different magical abilities. The storm died down somewhat when an official "first look" still was released that October, which revealed that the Seven Dwarfs will be in the movie (albeit rendered with CGI).
- When the film was delayed by a full year to March 2025, the 2023 actor and writer strikes were cited as the reason, but insiders speculated that it also had to do with not only the PR fiascoes, but also a ballooning budget and executive wariness over the company's disastrous box-office take in 2023, where even the much-hyped The Little Mermaid (2023) performed below expectations; not counting money saved through U.K. tax rebates, the budget was estimated to be around $330 million, surpassing the alleged one of Avengers: Infinity War, meaning it would have to gross over $500 million just to break even. With Rachel Zegler having since backtracked on her earlier comments, the dwarfs now known to be appearing, and reshoots taking place in mid-2024, it seems to imply that the Disney higher-ups felt they had a sinking ship on their hands and are now doing everything they can to save it.
I removed them because the first two are mostly just complaining and the third one is mostly speculation that I couldn't find any actual concrete information on. Now I still stand by that but then I thought "Hey those looked familair." So, I looked through the history but couldn't find anything. Then I remembered that the page had been cut before for being made before we had a trailer. So, I did some digging and found this post where I claimed to have removed some similar but not identical entries
(to be fair at the time most people agreed that it was misuse).
So, yeah between the page being cut, real life stuff happening since then, and the slightly different entries. I had forgotten that I had done it before. That is no excuse, however, and I would like to report myself.
Edited by BullmanopenClomplainy Edits
Lilybelle
has been making complainy edits related to Disney's Wish (2023). In addition to the edits done to the movie's page itself (a specific example would be this really long Character Shilling example
, they have also edited a Ron the Death Eater entry to include more complaints about main character Asha, bolding the word "many" in "many detractors" and adding in the word "ungrateful".
openConcerning Hazbin edit
Under YMMV.Hazbin Hotel, Zardonix made this addition to Base-Breaking Character:
- Season 1's Arc Villain Adam, the first man on Earth and leader of the Exorcists, is the most divisive character in the show for many reasons. Those who love him find him to be a hilarious, cool, yet still threatening adversary for the main cast to face. Others find him to be a flat, one-dimensional villain whose comedic moments are too grating even if intended due to his non-stop swearing and dickishness, which prevents him from being taken seriously even when he's at his most menacing. His non-stop swearing in particular is seen as almost playing into the criticism that detractors make about the Hellaverse overusing swearing and putting it into one character. The decision to make him white has also attracted much criticism. With Eden likely being in the middle east like the rest of the Bible, making Adam white has been pointed out to be an odd decision, especially considering making the first human a white man has some unfortunate implications. While some have tried to justify the choice i.e. His real face supposedly being meant to resembling his va.
Besides coming of as to focused on the complaint side for BBC (which means both side are equally presented), this has baggage concerning enough I'm bringing here.
Would portraying Adam/such an evil and jerkass character as a non-white ethnicity not have issues itself?
Hazbin cleanup is discussing the issue
, suggesting it's a nonissue within the fandom so misuse.
openTo avoid an Edit War
I bring up a recent edit on the Character page for corru.observer by GooseWithAPhone which has resulted in unilateral changes to folder names and addition of speculative tropes that I'd like to revert. Specifically:
- The troper added Ambiguously Gay for a character whose actions have yet too little context or weight behind them for a work that is still being released in chapters as we speak, renamed He Knows Too Much to "She Knows Too Much" which is frowned upon, and tried to mask speculation by claiming the trope is "heavily implied" without sufficient proof.
- Renamed folders with the full names of some characters, when the game itself refers to them by their shortened names and they're rarely referred upon by their full names.
- Added a few tropes about a character that reek of speculation hidden behind "implications" that I do not believe are necessarily there yet.
openWhich Page Should Be Linked To?
Celebrity Power Couple had the following example (I'm showing the namespace of the work because it's relevant. I also shortened the example text since the example content itself isn't that relevant):
- ComicBook.Batman Grant Morrison: Billionaire industrialist, philanthropist, and socialite Bruce Wayne...
Gate Star X changed it to:
- ComicBook.Batman: In ComicBook.Batman Grant Morrison, Bruce Wayne, the billionaire industrialist, philanthropist, and socialite....
I was under the impression that if the more specific work page is available, you use that as the main example link. You only use the main page to group together multiple examples from different works in the series or if the specific comic/work doesn't have a page on the site. So the original was fine and the change is unnecessary. But Gate Star X told me they've seen the second version done around the wiki and are just following suit. Is there any clear policy on this someone can point us to?
Edited by amathieu13

Last year, I got into a bit of an edit war with Vulkus over Man of Kryptonite, specifically the grammar of the page quote. On December 9th, 2021
, I changed the page quote from:
To:
A little under one hour later
, Vulkus edited the page to remove the spaces after each ellipsis that I added. Unwisely, I readded them
(not thinking about how this would be an edit war on my part), and Vulkus removed them again
. (Neither of us provided any edit reasons.)
After that, I decided to drop the matter, since the matter apparently wasn't brought up to the mods' attention and because I didn't want to be suspended. However, six days ago
, I decided to re-add the spaces after the ellipses. I know that I was probably Digging Myself Deeper, but I think I was hoping that Vulkus wouldn't react and that the matter would stop there — sure enough, though, Vulkus deleted the spaces again
. (Again, no edit reasons from either of us.) At that point, I became motivated enough to PM Vulkus, hoping that we could discuss the matter — however, six days later, Vulkus has yet to respond.
I know that my behavior was unacceptable and probably grounds for a suspension, and that the matter is trivial to the point of being absurd. Nonetheless, I think it's important to bring this edit war to light, particularly because I am fairly certain that ellipses should be followed by spaces in proper English grammar.
Edited by ClancyGardener