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openHarry Potter Acceptable Targets Literature
On the Harry Potter Philosopher's Stone YMMV page, there's this entry for Acceptable Targets:
- Overweight boys. Dudley's weight is openly scorned, with the supposed justification of Rowling's implicit association of it with parental indulgence. Years later, Rowling, outraged at the pressure on girls to be thin, called fat insults "strange and sick." Perhaps as an Author's Saving Throw, later books blame Vernon and Petunia for Dudley's weight, with Dumbledore outright calling them out for inflicting a different kind of abuse on their own son. Dudley also picks up boxing, and switches from being morbidly obese to an example of Stout Strength.
And also on the Goblet of Fire YMMV page:
- Overweight boys. Dudley's increased weight, while treated with some seriousness, is still Played for Laughs. Implied association in previous books of his weight with parental indulgence, his comical resentment of his diet, Fred and George's playful hope for a glimpse of the "great bullying git," and Fred slipping him a toffee which magically engorges his tongue seem to dismiss obesity as idleness. Years later, Rowling, outraged at the pressure on girls to be thin, called fat insults "strange and sick."
I don't feel that these are valid examples of Acceptable Targets. I explained my reasoning on the Goblet of Fire discussion page
. But basically, while it's true that Dudley's weight is poked fun of, I don't see how that applies to overweight boys as a whole. I think that's a stretch. Hagrid is another heavy-set character, and a much nicer and more likeable person, and his weight isn't made fun of (as far as I can remember anyway; it's been a while since I read the books). To me, the entries feel like they're more targeted at J.K. Rowling herself to criticize her apparent hypocrisy on the issue, but I don't see how Rowling's comment in itself really has anything to do with Harry Potter. (I do agree with Rowling's later stance; I just feel it's a separate issue.)
But that's just my take on it. I wanted to get some other opinions.
Edited by StardustSoldieropenUnfortunate Implications on YMMV.The Last Jedi
Rotide put this entry on YMMV.The Last Jedi:
- Unfortunate Implications: In spite of the general popularity of TLJ with social justice bloggers for its diverse cast and increased prominence in female roles compared to earlier movies, others have roundly criticized the movie for taking an overly-sympathetic stance to Kylo Ren, downplaying the actions of the First Order (Most especially by engaging in an attempt at Black-and-Grey Morality, when the antagonists are based off a very real horror visited upon the world), how Rey seems to be sidelined in favor of Luke and Kylo's conflict, and how Poe (played by the Latino Oscar Isaac) is taught a lesson on respecting authority by Admiral Holdo (Played by the white Laura Dern). Some examples of people discussing this are here [1]
, [2]
, [3]
Apocrypha removed it with the following edit reason:
Tuvok added it back with the following edit reason:
So what do? I don't think a citation from reddit is reputable.
openBadly-made work page Literature
This page seems very inappropriately made. The issue of self-promotion aside, it contains many instances of This Troper, use of first person and a fair amount of Natter. Anyone familiar with the work care to do some clean-up?
Edited by LogoPopenDethroning Moment misuse?
From DethroningMoment.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:
- Midna: The part where Applejack tears into Coco (or, um, "Miss") Pommel's dress is just horrendous and makes both parties look bad. In Applejack's case, it's turning an otherwise likeable (if in my opinion bland) character into a dick for the sake of laughs. Element of Honesty or no, there's being frank and then there's mocking someone behind their back, and AJ's not quite a genius but she's at least smart enough to know which of the two this is. Let's not forget that Applejack has actually met Coco before, gotten to know her, and grown to like her. She'd be damn well aware that a sensitive girl like her would absolutely not appreciate her design being trashed like that. As for Coco... well, she didn't do anything wrong really, it's the way the writers are treating her. Coco was shown to be an extremely competent designer in Rarity Takes Manehattan—her cutie mark is a fancy hat for god's sake—so where the hell did this "disco ball" come from? It's giving a lovable and extremely popular character the Idiot Ball for the sake of a gag, and it just comes off as disrespectful. (In fact, between the ridiculous dress design and her cold in The Saddle Row Review, it's hard not to believe one or more of the writers have a personal vendetta against the character for some reason). Come on, guys, you know how popular Coco is. You should have known this would be a jerk move. The salt meets the wound when you realize that this is the only time Coco is so much as mentioned in the entirety of Season 7. Nope, no physical appearances at all. That Rarity episode you're hoping for where she'll show up and melt your heart again? Not happening. You Coco fans are getting a passing mention so she can make a fool of herself and the sweet farm girl can mock her in an uncharacteristically mean way, and dammit, you're gonna like it. Oh, but don't worry—she gets a very few blink-and-you'll-miss-them, voiceless cameos in the movie! That makes up for everything, right? ... r-right?//
The last part regarding Fake It Till You Make It was recently added. I ask if that part breaks the "One moment per work to a troper. If multiple entries are signed to the same troper, the more recent ones will be cut and/or moved to the discussion page." rule, or if the "it's the last we're hearing of her period" should be removed because we don't know for sure it's the last we'll hear of her.
openPossible Bluenose Bowdlerizer?
I'm not exactly sure what's going on here, but I recently looked at my watchlist and saw that ExultantCapon
edited Characters.Nichijou to change the word "fuck" to "hell". I don't necessarily disagree with this change but I took a look at the edit history anyway and noticed a tendency towards changing seemingly inocuous words into other phrases. I've also noticed all of the edits are today.
Examples:
- Ungrateful Bastard - "Hates with a passion" to "annoying as heck"
- GetAHoldOfYourselfMan.Anime And Manga - "came to his senses" to "came to himself" and "didn't want to slap Suzaku back into his senses" to "didn't plan to slap Suzaku into realization"
- UsefulNotes.Japanese Pronouns - Deleted "Conversely, Bulma calls him "anta" and definitely is being rude." Probably justified as natter, but no edit reason was included and a porition of an entry directly below got deleted along with it.
- Characters.Samurai Pizza Cats - "idiots" to "dimwits" (though the word is capitalized so maybe it's a term correction?) and "hair-trigger temper" to "crazy short temper"
openOK to use notes to hide spoilers? Videogame
The regular [[spoiler]] tag is fine for hiding a few words, but is it okay to use [[labelnote]] instead to hide a large amount of spoiler-y text?
I'm cleaning up the page VisualNovel.The Letter, and some of the examples are a bit lengthy.
For example, I want to change this:
- Earn Your Bad Ending: In order to trigger certain character deaths or ruin certain relationships, you have to deliberately choose options that are cowardly, impulsive or very clearly offensive. Surprisingly, this also applies to the True Ending, which is not an Everybody Lives ending and requires you to deliberately trigger the deaths of Hannah, Marianne and Ashton before sending Luke off for a Heroic Sacrifice. And this is after you unlock the Memory Fragments that are triggered by every individual character's death.
to this:
- Earn Your Bad Ending: In order to trigger certain character deaths or ruin certain relationships, you have to deliberately choose options that are cowardly, impulsive or very clearly offensive. spoiler Surprisingly, this also applies to the True Ending, which is not an Everybody Lives ending and requires you to deliberately trigger the deaths of Hannah, Marianne and Ashton before sending Luke off for a Heroic Sacrifice. And this is after you unlock the Memory Fragments that are triggered by every individual character's death.
It's not a big deal by itself, but several examples are like this, and it makes the page look like Swiss-cheese for people with spoilers off. I don't want to be overzealous with the notes, so I want to ask here first.
(I actually asked a similar question here a few weeks ago, so this is kind of like a follow-up question.)
Thanks!
Edited by craleigh318openAdoredByTheNetwork/TeenTitansGo Western Animation
This page
of Teen Titans Go!, unsurprisingly has a lot of complaining in it. I was gonna clean it myself, but I can't even tell what examples should remain at this point.
openFanworks on Main (and ban evader?)
DetestableDegenerate linked various ROM hacks of Super Metroid to the main page.
- Sequel Escalation: Many of the game's ROM hacks, most notably Z-Factor
and Redesign
, are monumentally larger than the original. Also, Metroid Fusion in terms of it being an Actionized Sequel.
It seem inappropriate to put fan works to the main since they are not part of the work itself (also, Fusion should go under its own page). I've similarly seen things like Fix Fic in the works that they fix. Should those be removed?
Also, Larkmarn removed their edits claiming they were a ban-evader
, (it is a very new account) which DetestableDegenerate immediately restored. If they were a ban-evader, I assume they would have been banned before they could add it back, are they? (This would effect what we clean up.
open Potential Bias in Avatar pages? Western Animation
Okay, so K 2 Misfit has made two edits on Avatar pages that I find somewhat questionable. The first is on the YMMV page, under Franchise Original Sin :
And the second is under Fandom-Specific Plot:
Both seem to be editorializing somewhat. Now, in regards to the former, that's probably going to happen at least a little on the YMMV pages, but I still think they ought to reflect some sort of consensus, whereas this mentions a lot of specific issues that seem to be the troper's person opinions framed as a generally accepted "this is the way it should have been". Still, this is the YMMV page, so maybe I should be more lenient when it comes to opinions, but at least some of it seems like a stretch.
As for the latter entry, it seems to be going in a YMMV direction on a page that is not that. Certainly, a mention of fics that wish to further explore queer issues in the verse is perfectly fine, even mentioning that many do not feel that it was explored as well as it could be, but I don't think the somewhat accusatory tone of the entry is necessary. I think this entry deserves to stay, but it ought to be rewritten somewhat.
Thoughts?
openSevere trope misuse by User: DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck
Troper Peridonyx has issues with DMoS. On this page alone, I count some pretty severe and blatant unpunished violations of the rules governing entries, although I assure you there are more on other pages.
Perhaps this is redundant, but just in case anyone doesn't know them, here are the stated rules of any Dethroning Moment subpage:
Keep in mind:
- Sign your entries.
- One moment per game to a troper. If multiple entries are signed to the same troper, the more recent one will be cut.
- Moments only, no "just everything he said," or "The entire game" entries.
- No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion.
- No natter. As above, anything contesting an entry will be cut, and anything that's just contributing more can be made its own entry.
- Explain why it's a Dethroning Moment of Suck.
- Please make sure the moment is fictional and is neither an event that occurred in real life nor something gameplay-related. We have a perfectly good Scrappy Mechanic page for the latter.
- No ALLCAPS, no bold, and no italics unless it's the title of a work. We are not yelling the DMoSs out loud.
And here are the entries Peridonyx has on the page:
I spot in these entries several violations of the above-mentioned rules, particularly these two:
- Only one entry: Do I even need to explain?
- Moments only: A couple of these are bones to pick with concepts, or multiple things within a single game or two. Not moments.
And make no mistake, this is not an isolated incident. There are several other pages with multiple entries from this user that violate the same rules. Considering the rules are right near the top of the page and are one of the first things you see when you load the page, there is just no excuse not to see them, read them and follow them when troping. Never mind doing it again on multiple other pages, as you'll see if you look here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=Peridonyx
And I'm sure if we looked farther, we'd find even more.
Which is why I'm bringing this to everyone's attention. I'm not a mod, I don't know the proper protocol for dealing with users who conduct themselves this way, but I know this is a pretty bad situation and I'm blowing the whistle on it.
As a coda, Peridonyx keeps using Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. I don't think that entry means what they think it means. Can't tell if it's meant to be Angst Aversion or Eight Deadly Words though.
openPosts not showing up
For some of the threads here in ATT, I'm replying and my post gets eaten by the Data Vampires. The thread itself gets bumped, but my post is lost.
open Edit War
rockdeworld added an unfitting example of Point of No Return (see here
), namely a case of temporary not being able to go back (the trope's definition clearly says it's for permanent cases. Furthermore, it violated indentation rules. I removed it, but then they added it back, thus triggering an edit war. Worse, after I sent them an Issue Helper on the matter, they said the example was valid (apparently they only interpret the mere act of not being able to go back as an example, disregarding the fact that it's only temporary) and said that I should just have "fixed [the misindentaion myself]"" (as if it was something optional I could do just because they chose not to).
open Troper with an agenda Web Original
apm483@gmail.com
has made some edits that seem hostile towards non-binary people.
They added the following under Hype Backlash on YMMV.Gen Lock:
- Speaking of All-Star Cast, some backlash were given due to the casting of "non-binary" Asia Kate Dillon as Valentina. This is despite Valentina xirself is "genderfluid" like Asia is.
And they also commented out the following example on Awesome.Gen Lock:
With the edit reason:
openEdit-Warring on Monster Hunter Character page
I recently deleted an SNK Boss entry from Monster Hunter Fifth Generation Monsters with the reasoning that Monster Hunter: World is not part of a genre that has bosses that fit SNK Boss. It got re-added by Vsquared_42
, and it turns out that this isn't the first time they re-added the entry when it got pulled.
I asked in Is This an Example?
whether I was correct about SNK Boss not applying to a game like Monster Hunter: World, and there is a discussion thread
on the page itself. However, since edit-warring has now happened, I thought it might be best to bring it up here as well.
openStrawman Has a Point query
Recently, I noticed that an instance of Strawman Has a Point in Calvin and Hobbes was deleted, with this being the stated edit reason:
I personally disagree with this removal. For context, the entry was about a Story Arc where Calvin is presented as wholly in the wrong for not reacting well to an assignment; but while he does handle it in about the worst way possible, the narrative never addresses that the assignment itself (gathering fifty leaves, each from a different species of tree, then putting them in a collection and labeling each one with both its tree's common and scientific names) is downright unreasonable to expect a first-grader to do, which vindicates at least some of Calvin's resentment at having to do it.
openDisputed Example on Dated History
I deleted the following example from Dated History because it was utterly pointless ("we thought this, but then someone said otherwise, but then that person was disproven" does not count as an example and is just cluttering up the page). Someone else put it back. Verdict?
- "No Irish need apply" signs were once thought to be a common sight across the United States until Richard J. Jensen wrote a 2002 paper arguing that they were mostly a myth and there was no significant anti-Irish discrimination in the American job market except by a handful of English immigrants who still held the Hibernophobic sentiments common in their homeland. That being said, this paper was itself disproven in a 2015 rebuttal by 8th-grade student Rebecca A. Fried, who listed numerous instances of American signs and advertisements bearing the phrase between the 1840s and the early 20th century.
openPossible edit war on Overshadowed By Controversy?
On September 6th, the troper ooh added this entry
on OvershadowedByControversy.Real Life for infamous activist Louis Farrakhan:
- Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam has long been known less for his support for Black equality and more for his support for Black nationalism, his open contempt for Caucasians, Jews, gays, and feminists, among others, and for making a comment praising Hitler. The fact that he may have incited the assassination of Malcolm X hasn’t helped his reputation, either. As such, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has deemed the Nation of Islam as a hate group. Many politicians do their level best to avoid ties with Farrakhan, and those that do have had their careers destroyed as a result.
Four days later, Chrononaut70 edited
the section to remove the part that I bolded, with the reason "In regards to Louis Farrakhan, the man himself considers Jews to be termites and whites to be less than human, and he prefers to have a black-only society separate from other races".
14 hours after Chrononaut's edit, DongwaChan edited
the section adding what was essentially a rewrite of the bolded part ("less for his influence in the black equality movement and more")... only for Dongwa to remove it almost six minutes later.
I'm not sure if this constitutes as an edit war but something appears to be going on.
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenShould I start a TRS thread for History's Crime Wave?
So, after a discussion on the Laconic Improvement thread
, I figured that something might need to be done with History's Crime Wave. The trope itself says it's about whenever a work uses a historical villain (i.e Hitler and Caligula). However, the title, image, and several of its examples led me to interpret it as "historical villains teaming up". I even based its laconic off it and added a mention of Archived Army as well. On the discussion
, there's a Troper (I assume is the sponsor) mentioning they need some help on the description and whether or not it should be merged with Archived Army. This suggests, that my interpretation might've been what the trope is supposed to be.
I brought it up on the Trope Description Improvement Thread too, but I got no response on that. So, should I start a TRS thread for this?
NOTE: I also looked in the TLP launch list but I found no mention of History's Crime Wave there (the page was created on February 20th, 2012), however, I just learned it's common for pages published around 2007-2012 to not have any kind of TLP history.
EDIT: Added an update regarding its lack of TLP history.
Edited by Cutegirl920fireopenAvoiding a possible edit war
Since there is a possible edit war, I decided to ask here.
- Draco in Leather Pants:
- Varian gained a large fangirl following from the start, so when he started Jumping Off the Slippery Slope and became a full-fledged villain by the end of the first season, many excuses began being made for him, with many refusing to call him a truly bad guy because "he just wants to free his father". Though it may be true that Varian's situation was something no minor should have to go through, especially with him losing his only remaining family member and being abandoned and cast out by all of Corona, including his "friends", it was still due to his own mistakes that his father got sealed in amber in the first place, and his serious crimes and offenses were undoubtedly unacceptable. He directs a good chunk of his wrath towards Queen Arianna, whom he threatens and abducts despite her attempting only kindness towards him, and he implies that if his plan to free Quirin had actually been a success, he intended to terrorize Corona and destroy the kingdrom anyway for revenge purposes. Even in his reappearance in the Season 3 premiere, it's clear that in-universe Varian himself does not see his past actions as excusable or forgivable, hence trying to literally wipe the slate clean with everyone. This is expanded upon in subsequent episodes like "Be Very Afraid" and "Cassandra's Revenge", where Varian further admits that his actions at the end of Season 1 - trying to murder Rapunzel, Arianna and Cassandra out of spite - were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.
Recently, the entry was deleted
with the reason, "I think it's covered better under Unintentionally Sympathetic." Well, I don't think so: US doesn't and shouldn't cover justifying or ignoring a character's evil acts, and that's what quite a few people in this fandom do regarding this one. Rumbly as it is, the entry points out that the character's ordeal is a result of his own recklessness, and he tries to murder innocent people out of spite; deleting the entry and saying he's just so sympathetic smells like DILP in practice. Or maybe I'm just being paranoid.
Previously, this entry was deleted by an apologist troper that eventually got banned
, then restored by The Cool Kat 1995, then deleted again by the apologist troper ban-evading
, then restored by me reverting the ban evader's edits. There probably was even more back-and-forth: YMMV.Tangled The Series has a long and dramatic edit history.
So, while I believe the entry is legit, I'm concerned about getting into an edit war if I add it back again.
If the entry is to be restored, I suggest condensing it somewhat:
- When Varian becomes a villain by the end of the first season, many of his massively numbered fangirls side with him and refuse to call him a bad guy because to them, he is just an innocent child wanting to free his father. True, he is a teenager, and he loses his only remaining family and stays alone for an unspecified amount of time. However, it is Varian's own careless experiment that gets his father sealed in amber, and even Rapunzel's magic hair is shown to be useless against it. Yet, just like Varian himself, his fans often blame his entire situation on Rapunzel, her friends and family, and all of Corona believing that he is completely justified in trying to murder them out of spite. In his reappearance in Season 3, Varian himself comes to admit that his actions at the end of Season 1 were completely out of line, and he's now deeply disturbed by what he's capable of.
Edit: And now, possible ban evasion.
Edited by Tenebrika

Okay, I know awesome and comedy are supposed to subjective, but...
In YMMV.The Butterfly Effect, under Crosses the Line Twice, there's an entry that says Evan going back in time to kill himself as an fetus is unintentionally hilarious and awesome. Also, in Awesome.The Butterfly Effect, there's a whole entry that goes into detail about just why said event is so awesome.
This just seems... wrong. It's not just me, is it?
Edited by ChaoticQueen