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Ask the Tropers:
open Issues re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) Film
1. Dolph Z has a severe hang-up about the MonsterVerse version of King Ghidorah. They keep trying to insist that he's not pure evil, despite evidence suggesting he is in both the film and its novelization. I called them out on it over PMs and their latest justification is that Ghidorah isn't listed under Complete Monster yet. (Who wants to tell them how the appeals process for Complete Monster entries works?) Given that this is not only causing a prolonged Edit War but also shows signs of Single-Issue Wonk, I'm curious to know how best to address the problem.
2. Daethalion has added two main page entries to the film's YMMV page. I've moved them both, and plan to address the user myself, but I want to leave this here just in case things aren't cleared up quickly.
Edited by MinisterOfSinisteropen Roleplay character sheet
DR Falling Future is a new stub article, already reported in the long-term project thread (the crash rescue thread). Characters.DR Falling Future is its character sheet and it also has issues.
It has the standard ZCE problem, and its editors are actually edit-warring over my clean-up. Though to the editors' credit, there have been some attempts to provide more context, but often with half-context or word cruft like 'self-explanatory'; or they seem to think that pictures are substitutes for written context.
They removed my standard ZCE notice and I received no less than three messages over the page. I feel they have a sense of ownership over the page ('our project you're not even a part of' + ' as long as you don't touch our characters and the page itself') or they think they can break this wiki's ZCE rules because other pages break them as well ('Do it for everybody else's pages, or don't work on them at all without our permission.'). They cited other Roleplay character sheets as precedence... which opens another can of worms.
I tried to reply as best as I could but it was very time-consuming and exhausting and I'm not sure my message was received. (I hope I remained civil and helpful in my replies.)
I also thought I would mention it here because I suppose the editors will come here to argue their point of view, or at least to confirm that I am not making things up with Administrivia.Zero Context Example and other editing rules.
Also, prushka (one of the editors) mentioned in their message that the Roleplay is not made public yet (QUOTE It's not even public yet UNQUOTE)... which makes me think it's an unpublished work and as such, it needs to be moved to Darth Wiki — both the stub and its character sheet.
I'm posting it here because I think they all need to be reminded of this wiki's rules and its purpose (troping fiction and stories for general readership; it's not a platform to host fanfic roleplay for the players to get the feel of their characters). They probably need to hear it from the mods, not a regular fellow troper.
(I also admit I'm vexed because my clean-up efforts of their ZCE basically went down the drain.)
ETA: Sorry it's such a Wall of Text.
Edited by XFllo
Migrated to Chloe Jessica!
openis this a violation of ROCEJ? Webcomic
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.OvershadowedByControversy
Scifimaster 92 deleted the following entry from Overshadowed by Controversy:
- Sinfest, a webcomic initially known for its raunchy, dark comedy and its lighthearted parodies of religious tropes, garnered a much more negative reputation after the onset of the Sisterhood arc in 2011, which radically shifted the comic's focus into a story-driven one with heavy, radical feminist overtones. What made this so controversial was a combination of its misandrist attitudes towards men, the author's constant deflection of criticism as "dudebro misogyny," attempts at using female characters to speak for women despite being a middle-aged man (as well as insulting women who disagree with his views), and more recently the use of the Sisterhood as a mouthpiece for transphobia, depicting gender non-conforming individuals as liars and literal zombies. Consequently, the comic's fanbase has been hemorrhaging out over the years, the author's Patreon is seeing a steady decline in support, and Sinfest is now more well-known for its trans-exclusionary radical feminist overtones than for anything else about it.
now, some of this probably does need to be cut, the bits about misandry and the like are likely to attract MRAs. however, TV Tropes explicitly takes a pro-trans, anti-transphobia stance. i dont think it runs afoul of ROCEJ to condemn TERFs.
im trans myself, so i may be too close to this issue to view it objectively. id like some input on whether it's kosher to include or not.
Edited by razorrozar7open Politics on JonTron part 2
People are still adding political/drama posts onto YMMV.Jon Tron. While I don't agree with Jon's views, considering the recent stream debate we should probably add some message warning people against adding these types of examples on the page itself.
openMagnificentBastard cleanup thread
Hi folks, myself and another troper were interested in starting a Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread in the same way it's been done for Complete Monster. We figured we'd do a similar layout as the latter, with people doing effort posts detailing the work, the character, the MB qualities they posses and addressing anything that would throw their status as one into question and with the same at least five more upvotes than downvotes, create a writeup trying not to go over 300 words. We'd establish a list of criteria that can be updated as time goes on and IMO this is a trope that really needs some TLC. Thoughts?
openPositive quotes about Don Bluth
I noticed that every single quote on Quotes.Don Bluth that isn't from Bluth himself is something negative about him and his work. Does anyone know where we can find some positive quotes about him?
I was thinking one of Doug Walker's videos, whether from his Real Thoughts on Bluth's films, or a Nostalgia Critic review.
openRadio / True Capitalist probably should be purged like the Alex Jones page Radio
First of all, what he does is not a persona. He really means what he says. Second of all, he has been banned from Gab for hate speech, specifically death threats. He will tell you himself that that was the reason. https://web.archive.org/web/20190121192457/https://ghost.report/2018/12/13/message-from-ghost-is-it-the-last/
openUser Bat committing vandalism
Hey, all. This user Bat
seems to be blanking entire articles aimed at works by myself and the trope Scraggle. He is also going through entire articles and removing any references to our works through the wiki proper, such as on Badass Gay, Master Swordsman, Foregone Conclusion, etc. This seems quite deliberate and targeted.
I am like 99 percent sure this is the banned user Utter Koala, btw.
Edited by LightysnakeopenRandom quote changes, deletions, etc
Troper GG Crono has... some questionable edits. Note that none of these edits provided any edit reasoning:
- On LOL, 69, they removed The Stinger and changed the page quote (which I already brought up on the Quote thread for fixing purposes).
- On Framing Device, they edited the self-demonstrating bit at the top solely to remove the word "damn".
- They changed another page quote, this one on Bob Chipman.
- They deleted something about "The Crapshoot" from LoadingReadyLive.
- Another page quote change, this time on Guilty Gear.
Mind, this is only looking at the first ten or so edits in their history. The theme I'm getting is random, un-discussed changes to articles to the point of outright removals of things they don't like with no explanations given. I'll send a notifier about leaving edit reasons, but their edits go back to 2016, and they were doing it then, too.
(Edit: Kinda thought that linking directly to their edit would, well, show their edit. Apparently not. To find it like I did, I just clicked to see all edits and then Ctrl+F'd their name.)
Edited by WarJay77openSelf-demonstrating and ThisTroper in Creator page
The page Creator - Queg is written from the first person, (pretending to be) written from the Creator themselves. Then at the end it says it is written to be self-demonstrating.
Aren't self-demonstrating articles only allowed in the /SelfDemonstrating Namespace? And ThisTroper language not at all?
P.S. the Troper who re-wrote it extensively into the current form, Frabaginarf, only has one edit
and it is that. Apparently that Troper either is, or is pretending to be, the Creator in question. Again, seems fishy in the light of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours.
Should this page stay in the form it currently is? Or what to do with it?
Edited by LB7979openSelf-demonstrating - flipping the bird
Piterpicher made a self-demonstrating page for Flipping the Bird, although all it contains is ASCII art of said hand gesture. Is this kosher?
Edited by Tenma-YuukiopenHow to format the examples on this page
The Memetic Mutation page for Music has this note:
Please add entries in the following format:
- The name of the song.
- Meme name: description of meme and how it's used.
- Source of meme and fandom it relates to in the form of a note/labelnote.
- Famous instances (such as the Rick Roll during the Thanksgiving parade).
- Further mutations and successor memes, if any.
- Meme name: description of meme and how it's used.
Problem is no examples follow that format. They're either essentially zero-context, explain in the example itself, or explain in a labelnote.
Edited by Pichu-kunopenDoes Red And Wolf exist
Red And Wolf was created recently and I'm having trouble finding any other sources that confirm it's existence
The page itself says that information is scarce but could anyone please help me figure out if the creator is making things up
Edited by jormis29openYMMV Riverdale issues Live Action TV
The YMMV.Riverdale page is full of anti-Betty stuff mostly made by one troper, hiddenelastic, who's used Base-Breaking Character and Creator's Pet incorrectly. I sent a Pm about Word Cruft since it was the closest match but we might need to craft PMs about problem tropes like that, IE " Base-Breaking Character needs to acknowledge both sides of an argument" or "Creator's Pet must meet four specific criteria".
Examples:
"Base-Breaking Character: Betty, especially as of Season 2. Some fans argue that they find Betty annoying and hypocritical. Many fans opinions of her have changed for the negative after she blackmailed and threatened Cheryl in 2x02. Her self righteous attitude hasn't done her any favors with some of the fans either. The fact that a lot of fans feel that Betty is favored by the writers, doesn't help matters at all."
" Creator's Pet: Betty. Dear God, Betty. It's speculated that Betty is arguably the writer's favorite given how much focus they give her. This in turn has turned many fans off of Betty's character and they actually find her more annoying and boring, especially in Season 2. Many fans have complained that they wish the writers would stop putting so much focus on Betty and focus on other characters like Kevin, Josie, and especially Cheryl. "
Edited by lalalei2001openWould this be an edit war? Videogame
This was added to Doki Doki Literature Club! by Etheru on November 17:
- Anti-Frustration Features: There's a "skip" button that allows the player to fast forward through dialogue that they've already seen, which significantly helps to streamline the process of getting the Golden Ending for the game. It's also functional when Yuri kills herself in Act 3, since clicking through all of the garbage text takes a while.
I removed it later that day for being a non-example with this edit reason: "I'm not really sure this should count...having a skip button is a standard feature of visual novels, and in Ren'Py in particular, V Ns made with it include it by default—you have to deliberately disable the functionality in order to not allow for skipping. It's a bit like calling the save function an AFF."
A similar example was added to the page by King Lyger, and subsequently edited by them, on December 8. It currently looks like this:
- Anti-Frustration Features: If you load a save from a previous day, the game lets you fast-forward through dialogue you've already seen by either clicking "Skip" or holding down a key. The skip stops automatically when you reach dialogue that you haven't seen yet. The game also lets you skip through a part of Yuri's event in Act 2 after she stabs herself to death, which features nothing but strings of broken font characters.
The third sentence is a valid example, but the rest is essentially the same as the example I removed. I was going to remove that part again, but I thought it might constitute an edit war if I did, even though they were added by two different tropers (and I don't think King Lyger intentionally re-added a deleted example; that page has gotten a lot of edits).
Edited by MissMokushirokuopenIsaac Heller and Pokemon Spoilers Videogame
I'm a bit worried that the Troper Isaac Heller is adding story related spoilers from Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to various pages, but I don't want to spoil myself from this aspect, so I'm not willing to check his edits.
Edited by PDLopenSuper Mario Bros. - Dork Age or not? Videogame
Both the GameCube/GBA era and the 3DS/Wii U era are listed as a Dork Age for Mario on the video games page. Myself and a few others got into a discussion
about it, and we felt that neither of those actually do classify as a Dork Age. One of the users went ahead and removed the examples. Soon after, however, they were added back by another user, who disagreed with the deletion. The other user was unaware that there had been a discussion about it, so I linked him/her to the appropriate page.
I'm still leaning on the side of 'doesn't count as a Dork Age' myself, but I felt that maybe I should get some more opinions first. Thoughts?
Edited by StardustSoldieropenWMG Grease Film
Every entry on WMG.Grease relates to the movie's cast members, rather than the musical itself. Should the page go on the cut list?
openThatOneLevel.SuperMarioBros weird edit
ThatOneLevel.Super Mario Bros has a user by the name of Vif119
who just asked for a folder to be made right on the bottom of the page itself. He appears to have been here for a few years judging by his edit history, yet he still doesn't know how to make a folder and has problems abusing ALLCAPS, so I feel like he may need to be called in for a chat.

Last year, we decided to remove the creepy, overly detailed examples about Krystal.
Well, when I noticed that they are still at VaporWear.Video Games and Chainmail Bikini, I checked the histories for these pages and for Super Smash Bros. - Assist Trophies and it turns out that no one ever did. And now Eagle70 has taken upon himself to make sure that they stay there. Note that Eagle
and the person who originally added these entries
have very different edit patterns, so they are very unlikely to be the same person.
In short, should those examples be deleted, be rewritten, or stay as they are?
Edited by Chytus