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open Edit War on Character page of Turning Red Western Animation
Troper Rom Watt added back the Hero Antagonist example for Turning Red for the character Ming despite the majority of Ming’s actions not really coming off as heroic and more of a detriment to Mei’s (the main character) personal growth. Ming was an obstacle and a Karen who inconvenienced others with her selfish actions (she assaulted a security guard that was just doing his job and even destroyed a dome and risking lives all because Mei wanted to attend a concert). This doesn’t sound like a Hero Antagonist at all. She was far from heroic and she had to realize that she was the villain at the end of the movie. I wanted to delete the example, but I want to avoid an Edit War.
Edited by MsCC22
HoMM Fan
open Is this website tropeable?
I recently found The Grand List of Overused Science Fiction Clichés while wick cleaning Good People Have Good Sex... and I'm not sure this is actually tropeworthy.
The website itself has no tropes at all, and the subpages are just lists of common sci-fi cliches.
I wasn't sure the best spot to put this, so I took it here to ATT.
open Edit War alert (self report)
Some background first. There are two characters in Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch from Mercury that fan presumed to be the same character. The first one is Ericht, a 4 years old girl from Prologue episode, and the other is Suletta, the heroine of the show who's stated to be 17. But the recent 6th episode has dialogue implies that the Prolgue takes place 21 years before the main story. So they're unlikely to be the same character.
While it's true that the dialogue isn't explicit that the 21 years old incident is the Prologue, there is no official words that they're the same character either.
So I removed all assumption that Ericht being Suletta
from Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam The Witch From Mercury.
The next day, frankywifeey274 added them back without edit reason
. I removed them again the next day
state that it's speculation and sent Speculation notifier to frankywifeey274. They added it back later, without edit reason
.
They sent PM to me, claims that there is no proof that they aren't the same character and how "The official Gundam wiki" states they are the same and so the page should remain as is. I replied that there's no such thing as "official Gundam wiki", only fans-operate ones. And as I noted, there is no official source ever state that they're the same character at all. Their next PM pull argument from ignorance that there's no proof that they aren't the same character beyond the statement from 6th episode. Again, I replied that Ericht being Suletta is the speculation itself and it was tolerant prior but now the show suggest that it might not be true. There's no further PM and the edit is still there.
So I did start the Edit War. My defense is that it's to remove Speculative Troping, although I realized it might not be obvious to a third party.
openPassive-aggressive editing
Hello. I've noticed some questionable edits that troper Ymirsdaughter has been making to Perverse Sexual Lust. They clearly have an agenda to get the trope renamed, which is not a bad thing in and of itself - I myself would like to see it renamed - but their approach to this is to edit passive-aggressive remarks about the current name into the page description and their own Troper page. Is there a policy for dealing with this type of behaviour?
Edited by mr_copenBiased Troper (only in regards to Paper Mario, though) Videogame
DarkChirano
seems to have a hateboner for the recent entries of Paper Mario (that is to say, Sticker Star and Color Splash), often being quick to put in information that, while factual, attacks the game, or being biased on the YMMV pages. Although some of it is older, almost all of it is out against the games:
- From early 2016, calling Sticker Star an Obvious Beta for interesting reasons:
Obvious Beta: While the game doesn't suffer any intrinsic technical issues, several basic features such as a secondary stat/meter (which actually was in a beta) or a unique reward type for defeating enemies are not present. Action Command prompts are also missing in action, meaning the player won't know Things have action commands. The programming behind Kersti's advice is also incredibly simplistic, only giving advice by activated event flags, compared to the first two Paper Mario's guides giving advice by the room. This may have to do with the developers scrapping the game twice.
- Attacking the current developers (who made the aforementioned games) as well as producer Kensuke Tanabe on YMMV.Paper Mario (bolded is what they added):
Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the Mario And Luigi series, so there are some serious concerns that, as long as the creative team of the eighth gen games stay in charge, the dork age will literally never end.As has been explained many times, the Toad species have become The Scrappy to the Paper Mario fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with no unique names and no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits. In addition, Toads are almost the only NPCs in both Sticker Star and Color Splash, greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of NPCs that the previous games had. This isn't helped by producer Kensuke Tanabe thinking Toads are the only usable friendly species, nor the fact the other current producers and directors also believe this to be true.
- Adding in more hate for Tanabe as well as the devs on YMMV.Paper Mario Color Splash (once again, bold is a new addition):
An interview
with Kensuke Tanabe revealed that Miyamoto was responsible for the lack of original characters, which was one of the major complaints about the game. However, this same interview also revealed Tanabe went to Miyamoto near-immediately after becoming producer for Color Splash, rather than Miyamoto coming to him. There's also the detail he never mentioned trying to negotiate the character restriction down, even if he couldn't outright say "No".
Risa Tabata also got a fair bit of scorn, getting the same treatment as Miyamoto. This is mainly thanks to the infamous interview with GameXplain, where most answers were either really vague such as "I don’t know if I want to say a proper story–but we have a story" or saying that since there's Mario & Luigi, there's "no need for RPG elements", which caused a massive Internet Backdraft. But at the end of the day, she's simply an assistant producer and not the lead developer, and thus she doesn't deserve some of the hatred she got beyond that interview. It's also worth stating she's mentioned Tanabe's influence a few times.The game itself started development very shortly after the release of Sticker Star, so by the time fans began savaging the revamped gameplay style, Intelligent Systems had put too much work into Color Splash to scrap it and start over. Of course, that in turn leads to the question of post-release patches for mechanic tweaks, such as the ScrappyMechanics mentioned below. - Pointing out that almost every character introduced in Sticker Star "doesn't actually have a name-name" on Characters.Paper Mario and calling it ironic that there are only 5 Toads in Color Splash with real names.
- As stated by lalalei2001, blaming Kensuke Tanabe and Rise Tabata for the whole "making Mario & Luigi the de-facto Mario RPG series" mess on YMMV.Mario And Luigi.
- Continuing the hatred of Tanabe and claiming that he thinks Toads are the only friendly species from the main series on Critical Research Failure.
* The reason why the 8th gen Paper Mario games only have Toads as a recurring friendly species is because producer Kensuke Tanabe thinks they're the only allies Mario has in the main series, and has encouraged his fellow staff to think likewise. Even a quick glance towards early gameplay of several main series games quickly demonstrate the utter falsehood of this belief, with species such as Piantas, Nokis, Jibberjays and Whittles, among many others.
However, their non-Paper Mario related edits seem to have been made by a reasonable person, so I'm not sure what's up, which is why I brought it here.
Edited by MegaMarioManopenI hope I'm not being a bit sensitive here, but something on the TVT's FB page just bugged me
So, over on the Facebook page, there's a post for Unsettling Gender-Reveal accompanied by a Cyanide and Happiness featuring just that. Now, (along with a lot of the rest of the trans population) it happens to be one of my least favourite tropes (for obvious reasons), but the article itself tackles the trope quite respectfully; mentioning the real life consequences and how it's loaded with Values Dissonance.
Unfortunately, it seems that whoever's running the Facebook account's decided to respond to people discussing the very same Unfortunate Implications in the comments with a "Triggered" meme (one featuring a caricature of a TERF, no less). That's...really not the sort of thing I want to see directed at myself as a transwoman, or being used to represent me as a troper.
open Questionable edit and edit war
On July 4th, 2019
, the troper wrpen99 added Ambiguous Gender Identity as a sub-trope of Artistic License – Biology — this was their only edit at the time, and they provided no edit reason. On September 20th of the same year
, Nubian Satyress deleted this addition. On August 2nd 2021
, wrpen99 re-added it, again their only edit, again no edit reason. 21 days later
, Rena Starfall deleted it. On the 5th of this month
, wrpen99 re-added Ambiguous Gender Identity to the page, again their only edit, again no edit reason.
Now, I see no possible reason why Ambiguous Gender Identity would qualify as Artistic License – Biology. The trope doesn't in any way mention gender identity in relation to biology, only in strictly psychological terms, and the trope itself isn't unrealistic. However, even aside what I see as a persistent agenda on the part of wrpen99, they have undeniably been waging an edit war. I'd like to remove their addition after their suspension, and I'd like a consensus for or against such a decision.
openEdit Tug-of-War
(Sorry.)
Over on AwesomeMusic.Kirby (courtesy link to page's edit history
), there's been a bit of back-and-forth between nintendofanboy77
and KagSwirby
over the title of one of the Kirby franchise's recurring tracks. It seems that in the Japanese version, the track in question is titled "Clash! Gourmet Race" (as is the game mode it accompanies), but in the English translation, it's simply "Gourmet Race".
If I'm reading the page's edit history correctly, it was originally added as "Gourmet Race" many years ago (given that it's one of the series' signature tracks). KagSwirby changed it from "Gourmet Race" to "Clash! Gourmet Race" in February 2022, and nintendofanboy77 changed it back again a few days later, explaining in the edit reason that "Gourmet Race" is the English title. However, in June 2022, KagSwirby re-added "Clash!" (to multiple examples instead of just to the "main" listing on the page), and nintendofanboy77 re-deleted it; I wouldn't have thought anything of this had it not been for the latter's edit reason ('How many times do I have to re-state this: the English name is JUST "Gourmet Race."').
I have no horse in this ((clash!) gourmet) race (...I'll see myself out), but even if the wiki policy is to use official English translations where they exist, this seems to be crossing into Edit War territory.
open NSFW Webcomics
There's a NSFW Webcomics index, which is pretty much self-explanatory. I proposed on the Launch pad to have by extension an index of all the other kinds of work that are NSFW
. The draft got merely 6 bombs and general disinterest and skepticism. Many argued that it could potentially violate 5P rules, I personally can't see why (since it's intended to be a list of pages already existing on Tv Tropes and not some generic list of nasty works), but that's besides the point. My concern is: if an index about all NSFW works present is deemed inappropriate by tropers, shouldn't we by extension reevaluate the presence of NSFW Webcomics as well?
open Ryulong
Ryulong added examples with bad indenration to Lethal Joke Character, here
.
Their name is somewhat faniliar to me (I accidently deleted all PM last year). Regardless, I sent them indentation notifier (I were sleepy, else I would fix it myself then).
They replied, claimed that they did nothing wrong. So they 1. is totally clueless about Example Indentation in Trope Lists, and 2. doesn't bother to check the link in notifier.
As noted, their name is vaguely familiar to me and it's possible that their prpblem is long term (their recent edit seems fine, however). So I would like to post it here, and will fix the entry after this message.
Edited by KuruniopenSerious Problem involving the "How To Fix Kingdom Hearts" page
I wanted to report an issue I found on the How To Fix Kingdom Hearts page. Most specifically what's on the page. For context the page is supposed to be about the actual video series made by a content creator on You Tube. But a Troper by the name of "The Merger Magikoopa" inserted tropes about their fanfics on the actual page itself, when the two are completely different works not made by the same person thus having no right to be there, something that I'm pretty sure violates at least some of the basic rules of the site. I'm pretty sure there are rules against the inappropriate advertising of your own works here and this seems to violate these rules.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
openRemoval of Ambiguously Gay/Bi on JoJo pages
tiger20 made some edits to some Character pages for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, mostly Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Phantom Blood and Characters.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Battle Tendency. These edits had a lot of issues, mainly from a large quantity of misspellings (to the point where I'm not sure if they're typos or genuine mistakes), but I fixed those and sent a PM.
Something I'm not sure needs undoing is the removal of Ambiguously Gay and Ambiguously Bi on those pages, with no edit reason given:
- Ambiguously Gay: Completely devotes his life to supporting Jonathan after gaining his friendship, extending said devotion to his descendants after Jonathan's untimely passing, all while never marrying himself (note that "he never married" in an obituary was a British euphemism for homosexuality). Meanwhile he's never shown as attracted to women aside from Joseph teasing him and Erina about having Unresolved Sexual Tension, though their reactions indicate that this is not the case.
- Ambiguously Bi: Caesar's Establishing Character Moment shows him to be quite the lothario around women, but at one point Messina teases him about having a crush on Joseph, and he doesn't exactly deny the allegation. That the first thing he does upon reuniting with Joseph is a stock Tsundere reaction doesn't help his case.
I feel like there is a good amount of evidence for Speedwagon being Ambiguously Gay, though Caesar being bi is a bit weaker IMO. Still, removing LGBT tropes without any discussion or explanation feels suspicious. Do these examples look okay, and should they be re-added?
Edited by ZuxtronopenMudvayne and Numetal Music
For the last five years or so, on and off there has been an ongoing issue with NuMetal being part of the Mudvayne page. It has been removed a couple of times usually by the same troper BornnofSelf ban evading. They have used various handles to do this, and when they have been found out usually tropers simply revert the changes, generally it has been accepted that Mudvayne are Numetal. Established via various sources including
https://www.revolvermag.com/music/11-most-iconic-looks-nu-metal-stars
The general consensus has been that the band is Numetal.
'
Once again Numetal has been removed from the band page this time by relatively new troper https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/dognation83
. On both the Mudvayne page and the Numetal page with the reasoning Mudvayne is clearly prog-metal with no links to estabilsh this. I am seeking consensus to revert as this has been an ongoing argument I thought resolved with them being established as Numetal.
openVandal/troll
This troper
has created at least two
pages
with just one nonsense word each, seemingly for the sole purpose of trolling. They also created this
Haiku that's not a proper Hiaku (because the middle line only has 6 syllables instead of 7), and is Shaped Like Itself at best. These are their only edits on this wiki.
openSchoolhouse Rockz -- Troper restoring deleted page, restoring ZCEs without expanding
TL:DR: Troper recreating plagiarized page without consulting other users, now replacing plagiarized synopsis by filling it with bad grammar.
Long version:
Series.Schoolhouse Rockz — this page was previously cutlisted due to plagiarizing content from a review site
, and now it was reconstructed with the sole editor being... this guy
. (EDIT: EDIT history
)
Who is the same guy who made the page first, several months ago, with the plagiarized content. After the page got the snips due to stealing its synopsis and barely having enough tropes with decent context, LWH somehow sees fit to recreate the page, ZCE and all. With a two-sentence synopsis.
I've never seen the show in question, but here's some colorful grammar on the page itself:
- "It focuses on an everyday life of a 13-year-old snobbish schoolgirl..."
- "This series consists only 6 episodes..."
- "Her hairstyle switches in different episodes. Averted, she is the girliest in Eastwood Secondary..."
Oh, and ZCE issues, lack of full-stops, and "X is this trope" in both the main page and the characters subpage. A bunch which I've commented out months ago
with the dual-percentages, only for the troper in question to put them back without properly expanding the context
.
Also, a "Beware the Nice Ones" shoehorn that doesn't explain why audiences are supposed to be wary of a "nice" character (In episode 5, Dawn confronts Ros and Amni for getting Inka into serious trouble after finding out Inka is wrongly accused of shoplifting. — How is that an explanation of why we're supposed to "beware" of her?)
Help?
Edited by RobertTYLopenTroper with persist indentation problem
On 26th Jul, I sent them an indentation notifier for this edit
. They did reply and acknowledge it, too bad since it appears that they do not actually learn. I sent them two more indentation notifiers on 1st Sep (regarding this
) and 26th Sep (regarding this
.
Yesterday, they did it again
. I sent them another notifier and wait a day to see if they'll fix it. They don't, despite making two more edits on another articles. So I fix it myself and made this report.
openTrying to Avoid an Edit War Videogame
Recently, I modified a couple of entries on Dragon Age – Anders, removing the The Extremist Was Right entry and reformatting the information and moving it to Well-Intentioned Extremist. Before I did this, I took it to the Is This An Example
thread, where I was mostly ignored despite posting several times. Now, I previously did the same thing for the same entry on the main page for TEWR after I got agreement from the same thread that it wasn't an example, so despite lack of replies, I thought I was okay.
Shortly after I did this, Asherinka reverted the entry back and edited it to have more neutral wording (or tried to at least). The topic for the Dragon Age fandom is major Flame Bait and Anders himself has a Broken Base, so I'm trying not to let this devolve into an argument over whether or not he was right.
My big hang up on TEWR vs WIE is that I believe they are mutually exclusive tropes. And, for Anders, I do not believe he meets the requirements for TEWR.
- The Extremist Was Right:
- Terrible as Anders' actions were, a lot of supplementary material suggests that escalating the mage/Templar conflict to open war was the right thing to do, since the status quo only weakened the mages' position. The events of Inquisition can further cement this idea; if Leliana is named Divine, one of her reforms to the Chantry is the dissolving of the Circle system, granting the mages their freedom and creating widespread mage acceptance, giving Anders (and the rebel mages who agreed with his points, if not his actions) everything he wanted. Even the endings that see the Circles rebuilt come with some major reformations.
- The flavor text of the Magehunter shield in Inquisition tells of a previous misuse of the Right of Annulment. In 3:09 Towers, twenty-five years after the Right was first granted, the Circle of Magi in Antiva City was annulled to cover up the fact that its Knight-Captain was a serial killer who murdered over a hundred mages out of pure bigotry. While the Seekers eventually hunted him down and punished him, they assisted the Templars in covering up the incident, leaving the rest of the Circles completely ignorant of the truth, and there is no mention of them punishing the Knight-Commander for Annulling a Circle under false pretenses. Given that background chatter in the second game reveals that Meredith had gone over Elthina's head and petitioned the Divine for the Right, it paints a very clear picture of what might have happened to the Gallows if Anders had not provoked Meredith into jumping the gun instead of waiting for the Divine's permission.
Hello83433: I'm a bit concerned about [this particular TEWR example] in general, because it relies a lot on player perception and it seems to be used as an Audience Reaction, because there's hardly anything in-universe that is justifying the actions taken. The trope itself says the people whom everyone thought were completely right and in-universe it's noted that many, including mages, denounce Anders' actions. The supporting material (i.e. comics and supplementary novels) also have that the character is dead, because some events that occur do not occur in a universe where he lives.
Overall, this seems more like someone trying to convince others that the actions were right, when they moreso fall under Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters (and he's already listed under). Thoughts?
Reply from Afterward: Sorry I haven't said this before, but I think there's enough negative reactions to Anders' actions in-universe that he doesn't qualify (and while the Mage situation in Dragon Age was already pretty bad before Anders blew up the Chantry, there's no real evidence that it got better, just that the conflict became open), although I'm not super familiar with the inner workings of the trope.
Hello83433: Reposting because I think it got lost in the page transition. After cutting Anders' example from The Extremist Was Right, it was added to his character page. The first bullet point text is exactly the same as TEWR, and the second point is diving deep into begging the question and slippery slope territory, but I wanted to bring the full example here again just in case.
[Example In Question]
Reply from nrjxll: Honestly, I think there's a seed of a valid example buried in there, in that Inquisition does pretty clearly show that Anders's broader goal of dragging these festering problems out in the open led to necessary reforms that probably weren't going to happen otherwise. What it doesn't validate is the method he did that by. (Just speaking personally, one of the few points I found myself majorly agreeing with Vivienne - who I rather disliked on the whole - on was that tying the cause of mage independence to a terrorist attack that killed hundreds of people was a huge PR self-own.)
BTW, the definition of The Extremist Was Right is distinctly not helpful here. I don't see anything about other characters in a story needing to say as much to qualify an example the way you originally cited, but the description's not all that long in general.
Hello83433: I was going off of Laconic and the first sentence of the description, although I agree it could be written clearer. The heavy disagreement on his methods is what puts him out of TEWR territory for me. Although, now that I'm looking at it, would it be a better fit for Well-Intentioned Extremist? Anders seems to fit under the first and/or third types (the problem is the means and/or consequences) just based on in-universe reactions to his "solution".
I don't want this OP to be too long, so just to sum up I don't believe the example fits The Extremist Was Right primarily due to in-universe backlash against Anders and his actions. I suppose moving it to YMMV might be an option, but to avoid an edit war I'm asking here to get a consensus one way or the other.
Edited by Hello83433openTrope removal on Um Jammer Lammy
In February, MrAnonimo removed
this entry from Trivia.Um Jammer Lammy without any reason.
- Word of Gay: Rodney Greenblat responded to a fan's inquiry by saying that he would love to see Lammy and Katy as a couple
, and would incorporate it into the story if he was ever asked to design a new Lammy game. Later on, he drew a piece for Valentine's Day where they play a love song together
. Most fans have taken this as his confirmation that Lammy and Katy are in a relationship.
The removal strikes me as odd, since Greenblat is one of the series' creators and the entry fits the trope. While I noticed that two of MrAnonimo's edits seem to be removing entries regarding Lammy and Katy's relationship, the content removed didn't fit (entries for Les Yay and Fan-Preferred Couple that don't fit if they've been confirmed as dating, and natter on a Self-Fanservice entry) so I don't see anything off.
Should I re-add the entry?
openStrange wording for the Adaptational Nice Guy trope under Ranma Saotome Character folder
So, I checked out the Ranma ½: Ranma Saotome page and under the Adaptational Nice Guy section, the examples seemed to be showcase in a weird way. Like there's a lot of run on sentences and the examples seem to be all over the place. Here's what the entry says:
- Adaptational Nice Guy : Zigzagged. While the 89 anime cuts out most of his teasing to Akane, it also tends to add extra insults as filler, making Ranma rattle off whole lists of insults completely unprompted and doubling down on originally silly, short comments, so that it comes across like he genuinely means the insults he tosses Akane's way. The fact that the insults often come unprompted ironically makes Ranma look meaner in the end, despite there being less of them than in the manga.
- With the "you should learn to be half as sexy as I am" comment with the pictures Nabiki sold Kunō, the '89 anime adds a scene of him going "All I did was tell her the truth!" and later, "You're following me around hoping my good looks will rub off on you." This makes Ranma call Akane ugly on top of "unsexy" and imply he means it when he says Akane's ugly, completely contradicting how it's later implied the exact opposite (as he blushes watching Akane play sports right before denying she's cute, and then tries to talk himself out of it on the way home).
- In the filler episode "Pelvic Fortune Telling", Ranma rattles off an entire list of insults completely unprompted and even starts singing about it. Note that Ranma only lists off insults in the manga twice: when they barely knew each other and he was trying to convince Kunō he wasn't interested in Akane, and when he was trying to cure Akane's Shampoo-inflicted Laser-Guided Amnesia. The '89 anime has Ranma do this far more often.
Ranma: Akane... CONGRATULATIONS! You can't cook, you're not much of a looker — the one thing you do have is brute strength! Plus, you have got the biggest pair of hips in all of Japan! You're built like a brick... Your legs are too thick... You're singing the big hip blues...

So on Trivia.Wednesday I deleted
this entry:
I removed it after discussing it here
, because Creator Backlash is where they express dislike for the whole work and not just one aspect. Impaler added
this new entry for it
Again this is just one aspect (the writing) rather than the show as a whole like this trope is supposed to be and even then the quote doesn't scream despised. Plus I fail to see how the second bullet is backlash personally. Honestly this feels more like Wag the Director.
Can I get some more opinions on of this counts?