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openSelf-promotion?
I suspect Phill Higgins may be using this Wiki to (rather shamelessly) promote himself. His only activity so far was to create this TLP stub
and an Analysis page for an artist called Saulo Oliveira S.
Said analysis has many, many typos and grammar mistakes, on top of repeatedly describing the singer as "the Prince of Rock", someone "covered in revolutionary ideas for incendiary lyrics", "complex and mesmerizing", and countless other self-indulgent statements.
This can't be kosher, right?
Edit: Found a few more things about this singer:
- He used to have a Wikipedia article, but it was deleted not long ago. It was also written in a needlessly self-absorbed way.
- While I did find one of his songs on YouTube, it only has 4 views... So any claims that it is popular or acclaimed are null.
openEdit war on Kingdom Come Deliverance YMMV page Videogame
On December 22nd, Troper The Living Drawing removed these tropes
from Kingdom Come Deliverance's YMMV page with the edit reason of "Removed several examples that, while potentially valid, are very complainy. Have not played the game and have little knowledge on it so if you have, please feel free to rewrite the removed examples to me more neutral.":
- Archery is probably the fakest of all "difficult" things in the game. There is no aiming dot visible, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. In fact, the game simply turns off the aiming dot when bows are drawn with a crudely written script. There is absolutely nothing preventing players from simply marking or memorizing the dot on display and then have perfect aim, regardless of skill, bow type or distance. The absurd sway of bows for first five levels of the skill only adds to how fake it really is, because if the aiming dot is marked (or displayed with a console command), the aim remains perfect despite displaying sway all over the screen.
- The game never really informs how to train, so if natural progress is applied with the plot progression, Henry is going to be constantly and heavily under skilled. However, spending just 30 minutes with Captain Bernhard and whacking him with random Button Mashing is enough to train Henry into formidable fighter, raising half of his stats and generally turning the whole game into a cakewalk with most of enemies unable to even hit back.
- Each and every camp full of bandits can be cleared with ease during night-time, by carefully picking them one by one. Not only does it allow the player to skip otherwise tough (or outright impossible) encounters, it's considerably easier to do than just trying to face few brigands on your own in a sword fight. Of course the game never informs about how stealth or stealth kills work, so unless player figures it out by applying common sense, good luck with all those encounters when trying to face bandits in straight-out combat.
- The entire barter system relies on Henry's relationship with the vendor: he has to lower his bids for a long time to gain enough favour to get better prices (and better bids) in the future. Cue miller Peshek, who via finishing his quest line gains 100% favour. And since he's miller, he buys stolen goods. His merchant list is also scripted to pay premium for a lot of things regardless of favour. And if one particular vendor is constantly fed new items, their cash reserve increases during restocking. Eventually Peshek can easily carry 50 thousand groschen, buying whatever and offering decent prices at that. Just don't expect the game explaining any of this at any point.
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
- Misaimed "Realism": The game was heavily marketed under "super-realism" flag, but this backfires badly at certain game mechanics, especially since how uneven the application of said "realism" is, breaking the immersion entirely rather than enhancing it.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- Said saddle bags have a limited load they can carry, but there is nothing preventing Henry from overloading himself and then simply get on horseback.
- The weapons seem to be made out of foil and raw copper, that's how quickly they wear out. They also never really break down, just reach the state of "disrepair", meaning a simple debuff to damage. And you would grind any given blade into nothingness when using grindstone so often as Henry does.
- Probably the most glaring is just about anything related with inventory management. You can carry around few tonnes of equipment and the only downside will be being forced into the walking pace of movement. Get yourself on horseback and even that no longer applies. Oh, and saddle bags on your horse come with a teleport, since you can move in and out items regardless of where the horse is, unless ongoing quest intentionally disables that option (which only ever happens twice).
- That One Level: Needle in A Haystack. Working with the Neuhof bandits, Henry is tasked with infiltrating a monastery in order to track a straggler down, kill him and bring proof to the bandits that the target is dead. What follows is allegedly the most annoying quest in the whole game according to fans. First of all, it's a No-Gear Level, so you can't bring your weapons inside to kill the target. Second, since you're a novice, you're at the bottom of the monk hierarchy, meaning that you live under the authority of the hated Circators, monks who are supposed to keep order in the monastery and punish monks who break the rules. However, since you are being tasked with killing someone in the monastery, you WILL have to break many rules with your time in there, specially if you choose to do the sidequests that the monastery offer, which involves ludicrous amounts of lockpicking and pickpocketing, sneaking in and out of the monastery constantly, missing out on your schedule (and getting punished for that), getting lost and much more. Oh, and did we mention that all of this is done without a single Savior Schnapps in your inventory?
- Thankfully, the quest can be skipped, but it'll give you its "bad ending". There is an ornamental dagger hidden under a paving stone on the balcony next to the dormitory. If you don't mind a bit of collateral damage you can murder all the novices in their sleep, grab the spare set of keys from the pantry and escape within five minutes of the first night without needing any preplanning - apart from needing the Stealth Kill perk. Yes, it skips the whole quest and yes, it gives you a bad ending for it, but admit it, it's smart and it's understandable to do it.
- However, should Henry be a competent thief-type, the entire quest goes from That One Level to the best part of the entire game, as the main obstacle - lack of gear - is meaningless when all doors can be opened and circators avoided with stealth. It still requires overcoming various challenges, but in engaging and simply fun way.
No less than 30 minutes later, troper Stanisz added all of them back and commented them out
with the reason "If you expect people to correct the tone, how about leaving them content to correct, rather than just cutting it?" Around a week later, troper C Dan Red removed the commenting symbol and made the FakeDifficulty entry public with no edit reason.
Seeing Stanisz's reason, I decided to take a look at it myself and edited the entries
, with my own edit reason being "Grammar fixes, removed some entries (Miller seems more like Game-Breaker, Stealth is explained in the codex, and others are not that bad or seem to just be complaining), and tried to adjust the tone a tad to be more neutral." One of those removed entries was this, since most of it seemed to be unsalvageable complaining and one-sided:
- Fake Longevity: The game has few very blatant cases of intentionally making certain trival tasks take extra time. It is so widespread, numerous reviewers pointed this as an outright trick to claim "100 hours of gameplay", despite 20 or so is going to be filled with tedium.
- All the copious, lengthy and unskippable animations. They add absolutely nothing to the game, aside few extra seconds every time certain action is taken. Haggle and horse (dis)mounting is probably most guilty of this and also some of the most repeated actions.
- Fast travel on map can only be done over pre-planned paths and only toward handful of pre-made points of interest. In practice, this leads to Henry taking in-game hours to circle back and forth over particularly twisted path over a hillside or taking a detour over half of the map. And it doesn't matter if he's on foot or riding - the speed of fast travel is exactly the same, so once a mount is acquired, it's considerably faster to just ride manually rather than use the "fast" travel option.
- Additionally with horses, they move much slower on roads than off them. Most of the time, it's better to ride close to the road to keep track of where you're going, but not so close that the horse automatically attempts to get on it.
- Henry can't swim. Period. He can't ford rivers even when on horseback. Said rivers aren't deep and lack rapids of any sorts. Still, it takes to find what the game considers as a ford (where the water tends to be ankle-deep) or a bridge, which means a lot of back-and-forth travel toward nearest pass over river.
Hours later, Stanisz added the above entry back
with the reason of "Come on, mate..."
openComplainy edits about the Pokemon DP anime
Tavernier has recently been making a lot of edits to Pokémon the Series: Diamond and Pearl — Cast, specifically about the character Paul, many of which I feel are either highly nitpicky or demonstrate heavy negative bias against the character. I deleted several of them the other day for reasons listed here
, but Tavernier quickly added multiple of them back with new reasoning and then some. So to avoid an Edit War, I'm bringing them up here. To expand on a few:
- Depending on the Writer: Paul spends his anime tenure Diamond and Pearl being all over the place. How much of a jerk he is, how much he respects others, how much he respects his pokémon, how much he respects his brother, his analysis of what actually happens in battle and what causes it—these all change from episode to episode without cause or warning.
I'll start off with this entry. This one wasn't readded after I removed it, but I still bring it up because it's factually untrue to an extreme degree. As I pointed out in my edit, Paul is a character who, unlike virtually any other character in the anime's run, was near-exclusively written by a single person — Atsuhiro Tomioka wrote about 90% of the Paul-focused episodes in the series, so if there's any trope that doesn't apply to him, it's Depending on the Writer. I feel like that's a rather big red flag of misunderstanding already. In all my years of dealing with debates about Paul, I've never heard even a single other person, no matter how much they hated him, call him an inconsistent character.
- Strong as They Need to Be: Paul's assessment of Azumarill's weakness wouldn't be such a sticking point if Azumarill's loss at Roark's gym weren't so blatantly engineered by the writers—Roark's Geodude was apparently trained to use Hidden Power such that it not only blocks Hydro Pump but knocks Azumarill down long enough that Geodude could get two free hits of Rollout in.
Tavernier also seems to be particularly hung over the Geodude vs. Azumarill battle in DP015, where Azumarill's Hydro Pump is overpowered by Geodude's Hidden Power and finished off by two Rollout hits. When I deleted the above entry, they added
these instead:
- Ambiguous Situation: There are two competing explanations for Azumarill's loss to Geodude—Brock speculates that it's because Roark trained Geodude especially well, while Paul decides that Azumarill itself was just weak. The series does not judge in favor of either interpretation.
- Strong as They Need to Be: A key part of Paul's early Character Development and his conflict with Ash was his decision to release an Azumarill for supposedly being unimprovably weak after it lost in Roark's gym—however, the loss in question was the result of the anime putting Azumarill on the receiving end of this trope; after setting Azumarill up to dish out a Curb-Stomp Battle (with its type-advantage and Hydro Pump), the writers let Geodude stomp Azumarill instead and then had Brock Hand Wave it by speculating that Roark trained Geodude to beat Water-types.
This... doesn't change anything about my stance. Like I said in my edit, this type of thing happens all the time in the anime. Hidden Power beat out Hydro Pump to show that Geodude was stronger, and Azumarill was finished by Rollout because it wasn't strong enough to recover and counterattack. Frankly, it feels like they're trying to make the whole situation seem way more complex than it really is. Azumarill wasn't naturally powerful, so it easily fell to a Rock-type that had been trained to deal with Water-types. Paul, who at the time was still only concerned with power, deemed it worthless and got rid of it.
- Karma Houdini: Paul somehow gets away with badmouthing his Azumarill in front of Roark, who doesn't react at all. In earlier episodes, Gym Leaders and other officials would scold Trainers who did this.
I deleted this one for being far too small of an offense, so they proceeded to instead add an extensive list
of Paul's misdeeds that didn't go directly punished. I will say that most of them are technically accurate, and I'm well aware that Paul's situation with karma is the main source of his Base-Breaking Character status. But again, my counterargument still stands: first off, every jerk rival had numerous petty douche moments that weren't called out. But also, according to the page itself, Karma Houdini is mainly supposed to be for finished works where the character never received any form of comeuppance, which does not apply to Paul in the slightest. Going over each entry individually in bold:
- Karma Houdini: From being unkind and a terrible sport to acts of abuse, Paul gets away with a lot of misbehavior in the early part of the series.
- In DP046, Ash, Dawn, and Brock are separated from one another and each happens to encounter Paul while trying to find the others. Each time, one of the heroes asks Paul if he's seen the others, only for Paul to tell each of them no in turn, which in the case of Dawn and Brock is a straight-up, certified lie. This isn't brought up at all when the heroes reunite. This was such a small act of annoyance in a completely nonserious filler that's it's a nitpick at best.
- The Hearthome City Battle Competition (DP050-DP052) offers a hearty helping of Paul's cruelty, none of which he gets punished for. This here's the big one. Paul's lack of immediate punishment during this arc is probably the single biggest source of debate behind him. However, regardless of how you feel about it, the fact remains that Paul did receive karma for these actions (albeit much later): that he lost to the very Pokemon that he abused and released in the Sinnoh League. It's Karma Houdini Warranty at bare minimum.
- Paul's vicious attempts to harness Chimchar's Defense Mechanism Superpower: throwing Chimchar into intense danger, having his own pokémon attack it, and even deliberately forcing it to relive its own trauma by putting it against a Zangoose.
- When the heroes and even a Nurse Joy insist Paul let Chimchar rest and recover from the suffering it has endured at Paul's hands, Paul apparently agrees, only to throw Chimchar into the next battle and reveal he was only pretending so people would get off his back.
- During one battle, Paul—whose attempts to put Chimchar through this training have been continuously thwarted by Ash—demands Chimchar attack Ash's Turtwig.
- When a traumatized Chimchar fails to activate its Defense Mechanism Superpower in the heat of the moment, Paul turns his back on Chimchar and the battle, leaving Ash to try and command both Turtwig and Chimchar and salvage victory. Paul later kicks Chimchar off of his team and spitefully tells Ash and Chimchar that they deserve the worst—each other—when Ash offers the chimp a place on his.
- In DP064, Paul takes advantage of the others' effort to relocate a flock of Gligar safely out of a city in order to capture the powerful Gliscor leading the flock. Paul's success causes the flock to disperse and makes the relocation effort vastly more difficult and dangerous, but once Ash confronts him about the chaos he's caused Paul shrugs it off and leaves. Paul is never held to account for the difficulties caused or lives endangered by setting the Gligar loose. For one thing, the part about "endangered lives" is just false. But also, while this moment might qualify for Lack of Empathy, there's no karma that could've actually happened here. Technically all he was doing was catching a wild Gliscor.
- In DP066, Paul needlessly insults rookie Gym Leader Maylene with such contempt that it puts her in a Heroic BSoD. He never apologizes or faces comeuppance for this decision to Kick the Dog. This is another nitpick. Yes, this was very rude, but if that somehow makes him a Karma Houdini then every jerk rival is one too.
- In the same episode, Paul's older brother Reggie acknowledges that Paul has always had a cruel streak, but Reggie—the closest thing to a parental authority figure in Paul's life—gives no indication of having ever tried to confront or punish Paul for his historic behavior. This doesn't even have anything to do with karma to begin with.
- In DP081, Paul taunts Ash's team by insisting that pokémon only lose because of the trainer—as if Paul didn't blame Azumarill's weakness for its loss at Roark's gym or tell Chimchar it should be ashamed for being knocked out by Cynthia's Garchomp. No one calls him out for being a Hypocrite. See above. This has nothing to do with karma.
- When Ash praises Staravia during the Tag Team Tournament after Paul's Torterra defeats Brock and Holly, Paul sarcastically asks Ash if they even did anything. While rude to say, it's not inaccurate as Torterra single handedly defeated both of their opponents. Downplayed though, given that it was Torterra's attacks blocking Staravia that prevented it from even landing a hit.
was deleted
in favor of this Never My Fault entry:
- In a late battle of the Tag Team Tournament, Paul's Torterra single-handedly defeats Brock's and Holly's pokemon, and Paul dismisses his "partner" Ash's attempts to congratulate Staravia on the grounds that Staravia contributed nothing—Staravia was certainly trying, but it was also busy trying to maneuver around Torterra's wild and reckless attacks (it even got singed by Hyper Beam), a fact Paul does not see fit to acknowledge.
I actually do think this scene could qualify for both tropes (though less for the reasons stated and more because Paul proceeded to criticize Staravia for being too slow). But there's no reason to have deleted the Jerkass Has a Point one, since Paul did have a point. Staravia contributed nothing to the battle while Torterra won all on its own. The deleted bullet even pointed out the ways in which it was downplayed.
openTroper weirdly deleting entries beacuse they don't agree.
So on RelationshipWritingFumble.Animated Films JoLuRo075 deleted
this Frozen entry:
- In Frozen Anna is interested in both Hans and Kristoff, with varied conclusions, but both fall into Strangled by the Red String in different ways (although in Hans's case this was intentional) and Anna ultimately has way more romantic subtext with her sister Elsa than either of them. The coronation scene where Anna tries to compliment Elsa comes off more as flirty than sisterly, as does her reaction to Elsa's new appearance when they reunite. It doesn't hurt that the Act of True Love that saves the day is between the two of them. In context, it's sisterly love between Anna and Elsa, but since Disney has spent almost a century showing True Love as romance and only romance, since Elsa's narrative arc of finding her identity and learning to accept herself has such a heavy Rainbow Lens that 'Let It Go' became an instant LGBT anthem, and since her sister is both the only female character she spends much time interacting with and the person she has the closest and most important relationship with, it can come across as quite a mixed message for some. At the very least, the massive amount of fan-works featuring the pairing suggests that there was enough unintentional romantic chemistry there to spark a lot of imaginations.
Their edit reason was "Incest?, squick" and while I don't disagree this is also a legit example as a lot of fans did see the writing fumble. The also deleted
this entry from YMMV.Madagascar 3 Europes Most Wanted:
- Relationship Writing Fumble: Alex is given a Designated Love Interest in the form of Gia, though there is no explicit declaration of love and the relationship could be interpreted by the viewer as a platonic friendship, or even a sibling-like relationship. Alex develops a far more genuine bond with the gruff, manly tiger, Vitaly, and many of their interactions can just as easily be interpreted as attraction.
Also probably unrelated but they also deleted these from AmbiguouslyGay.Animated Films
- Frozen:
- Queen Elsa, what with her spending her entire life hiding something she was born with and how she became much happier once she embraced it; to the point that her big song
has been called "an gay anthem"
. Frozen II adds onto this with Elsa's arc and her new big song being easy to interpret as a Coming-Out Story, her Les Yay with Honeymaren, and her dislike of romance as a child. When asked about her sexuality, Jennifer Lee stated it was best left unsaid. On the other hand, she herself ships Elsa with Ralph, so maybe she considers Elsa's sexuality to be up to viewer interpretation or just wants to avoid Ship-to-Ship Combat in the movie's fandom. Later, she gave this comment:
"We know what we made. But at the same time, I feel like once we hand the film over and it belongs to the world, so I don't like to say anything and let the fans talk. I think it is up to them. Disney films were made in different eras, different times, and we celebrate them all for different reasons, but this one was made in 2013 and is going to have a 2013 point of view."- There's been a scuffle amongst Frozen fans when it comes to Oaken. When he's talking to Anna he points to a family in the sauna. Many think they're his family. It's been argued the only adult is the blond man and the familiarity between Oaken and them suggests they're related, while others think the oldest brunette is an adult woman instead of a teenager and she's the blond guys wife. Olaf's Frozen Adventure canonizes that they're his family but doesn't explain it further than that.
- Queen Elsa, what with her spending her entire life hiding something she was born with and how she became much happier once she embraced it; to the point that her big song
- Alex: with his flamboyant, Broadway-style dance maneuvers, overexcited personality and suspiciously close relationship with his best friend, Marty the zebra. It's also been pointed out that his interaction with his father seems like a metaphor for a Coming-Out Story. Come the third movie he is given a Love Interest in the form of Gia, but considering their relationship could just as easily be interpreted as friendship, there is the problematic matter of her age, and Alex is...rather close to the gruff, butch tiger Vitaly, nothing is really resolved.
openSinkholes on Character Page Western Animation
M3S
keeps adding Sinkholes in Characters.The Owl House Amity Blight. (Granted, I've made at least a couple Sinkholes myself lol, in case that needs to be mentioned.)
I tried to prevent this via pointing out that we're not supposed to leave them
. I even later tried leaving a commented-out warning saying not to add those and recently I sent them a DM about this. However, they clearly didn't pay attention to it by the time of writing this; they left a couple more Chained Sinkholes
.
openMCU - Confirmed to be Earth-616 repercussions Film
Hoping that this doesn't constitute that big of a spoiler. But in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is officially revealed that - at least inside the MCU multiverse - the main MCU is designated as Earth-616. This only confirms the previous reveal by producer Nate Moore
that the MCU is Earth-616.
I know that maybe this contradicts the official designation by the Marvel databooks, but my stance on it is that: different multiverse, different rules, different designations. So, following from this, would it be ok for me to start to replace "the Sacred Timeline" mentions in entries with "Earth-616"??? I will confess that I have always felt a bit annoyed by how cult-ish the term sounds, and considering how comicbook-616 and MCU-616 have never interacted, it wouldn't lend itself to any problems. Besides, "the sacred timeline" is a mouthful when compared to "-616".
Also, strengthening the argument for the Earth-616 denomination - this is the third time so far it has officially been called that, two of them inside movies. While "sacred timeline" was only used in Loki.
Edited by Edgar81539openOnce again, a non-existant work wonk Videogame
I initially brought this up in the Complaining thread, but upon further investigation of the culprit's edit history, it was deemed mod attention may be warrented.
Galdodon 99 made some weird edits to YMMV.Paper Mario The Origami King earlier today.
- “Paper Mario: The Origami Nazi”. Explanation King Olly’s plan for getting rid of all the Paper Toads involves him wishing via the 1,000 Crane Technique that all the Paper Toads go away forever since they share the same face and are poisoning his “perfect world” similar to Adolf Hitler.
And
- Pandering to the Base: While many critics and fans alike praise the game for being a Surprisingly Improved Sequel to its predecessors, a few such as the Villain Army and its Supreme Leader, accuse it of pandering to the people who hated Paper Bowser and his Koopa Troop by having King Olly be the main villain throughout the entire game, while Paper Bowser doesn’t steal back the spotlight from him, though it could just be shock over the eradication of the Paper Toads via the 1,000 Crane Technique. Hell, a review of the game
even said this while bashing the game for holding back Nintendo's development of Mario And Luigi Paper Jam 2, despite its 8.5 review rating.
I expanded the spoiler in the second part myself, but aside from their carelessness or lack of respect for spoiling, other red flags include the memetic mutation being a triple bullet point, and frankly I've never seen that meme around as a meme at least in the relatively decent portions of the internet, and the pothole to a Darth Wiki work and reference to a game that has at no point even been hinted to being planned in the Pandering to the Base.
They also added a justifying edit to another entry, I'll just remove that myself when I'm not on mobile.
After making that initial post, it was observed that they had made edits pertaining to the Villain Army, an unpublished work on Darth Wiki, and Paper Jam 2, which as of yet has not even been teased by any development staff, on other pages as well. This whole thing feels like another episode of the Tropers Obsessed with Works that Don't Exist show.
open"Edit War" (?) on Womanliness as Pathos
Tropers.Drakos25 has removed, readded (after I questioned them) and now re-removed an entry on Womanliness as Pathos. Here is the entry in question:
- One particular founding myth of Athens
details a dispute between Poseidon and Athena with Poseidon appearing before a coastal city and promising bountiful fishing and harvest from the sea so long as they name him as their Patron God. For no real reason, Athena appears and offers them olive trees, so long as they name her the Patron Goddess instead. The people take a vote, but the vote turns out to be completely split along gender lines: the men all vote for Poseidon, but are outnumbered by the women, who vote for Athena. Poseidon is furious and attempts to appeal with the Olympians, but even they are completely gender-split, so again the women win by one vote and the city officially becomes Athens. However, pissing off a sea god is a bad idea for a coastal city, so the Oracle suggests that they appease Poseidon by forbidding women from voting. So not only did Athena involve herself seemingly only as a Take That! at her uncle, but both mortal and Olympian women almost completely screwed the entire city and the Athenians could only resolve it by reducing women to second-class citizens.
- One particular founding myth of Athens
In addition to the video sourced in the example itself, when I brought this up to Drakos, they stated (paraphrasing) that they had "sixteen years of studying everything" about Greek myth and found "zero evidence" supporting that claim.
I then pointed to three
different
sources
which backed up the aforementioned video's interpretation of the myth. To which Drakos then replied that the first was a blog, the second "has gotten information wrong before" and the last is just a "reinterpretation". They then re-removed the entry and closed off further discussion by saying they would stand with their opinion.
So basically, I have four independent sources to back up this version of a myth (myths, I might add, rarely being clear-cut) while Drakos's only source right now basically amounts to "trust me". Edited by NubianSatyress
openPossible Single Issue Wonk and unnecessary bashing on a recap page Live Action TV
On a recap page of a few episodes of Just Beyond, I have found two examples where the troper named Colleen seem to hate the same aseop about Be Yourself and True Beauty Is on the Inside. The third example is basically the op bashing Kim Kardashian for no reason. Here's the example (Bold part means I highlighted it):
In Just Beyond S 1 E 3 Which Witch
- An Aesop: Yet another story about how Being Yourself is more important than fitting in.
In Just Beyond S 1 E 5 Unfiltered
- An Aesop: Another story about how Beauty Is Bad and True Beauty Is on the Inside.
- I Just Want to Be Beautiful: Lily wants to be as glamorous and attractive to be boys as the popular girls in her school. When she gets the app that starts magically altering her face, she gets greedy and uses it more and more until her face looks like Kim Kardashian threw up on her.
openEdit War Western Animation
Jumbo J 99 is doing an Edit War on What If…? (2021).
He added a really complaining entry of Took Bleak Stopped Caring to the ymmv (saying it now applied to the whole MCU). It was removed for being both a moment and the work itself ends pretty optimistically.
He then re-added it with a bunch of really reaching and sometimes incorrect versions of how things will in his opinion go
.
Like We have no clue if project insight will happen here and Carter could still stop it, We see in the finale that Tchalla and Quill are going to stop Ego, Loki is also defeated in the finale and a new avengers is formed who will probably deal with Malekith, Strange accepts his punishment and is even at peace, the zombie stuff is apparently going to be covered in another show, I have no idea where the nuclear war will destroy the earth comes from as that's not even in the episode and Killmonger is too stopped.
The show has been well received and from what I've seen loved by the fanbase for the dark moments so I don't think it's an example. Even ignoring that several of these entries are blatantly not true.
openProblematic troper
sumitkumars has only been here for two days, but they seem to have made many questionable edits to both the Useful Notes.Bollywood and Useful Notes.India pages almost to the point where they blanked the pages.
1. removing a lot of text from the Bollywood page
.
2. Removing a big chunk of the India page
.
5. poor grammar
.
6. What the hell is this edit??
I suggest we have someone revert the edits this person made, but please take a look for yourself.
Edited by YuriHaru567openSliding Scale wicks
Guy removed a link in the description of Powered by a Black Hole to Main.Mohs Scale Of Science Fiction Hardness with edit reason "Mohs scales are not tropes", linked to the TRS thread about it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1640197422056760800&page=3#comment-54
Obviously we're not supposed to use them as trope examples anymore, but that was just a pothole to the explanation of the term "hard science fiction" (which even the Science Fiction page itself still links to).
So basically should that link actually have been removed, or just re-namespaced to Sliding Scale/ ? (The thread never properly decided this before being closed.)
Edited by StarSwordopenEnding Aversion misuse?
- Ending Aversion:Some fans will be turned off by the ending of the film which involves the very memory of Peter Parker being erased from everyone's memories, including his loved ones, with him refusing to remind them in order to protect them and leaving him living on his own and having to support himself while acting as Spider-Man.
I removed it as it requires backlash against the ending to be so widespread even non-fans hear about it and thus avoid the work. "For some" suggests it's not widespread enough an it still seems too soon to tell. It was added back without explanation.
Should I re-cut? Move? Or what?
openTroper ignoring advices and posting misuses
For a period of time, gamerzillasaurusrex2000 was suspended and had to use the "Help with English" thread. Grammar aside, most examples they asked to be corrected seemed to be misuse in my opinion. I contacted them twice (one time in PM and one time on the forum) to tell them that the examples they wanted to grammar-check seemed to be misuse and I advised them to post them on the "Is This an Example?" thread after having them grammar-checked, but they completely ignored me. Recently, gamerzillasaurusrex2000 was unsuspended and posted all of their corrected example without taking the time to verify if they were valid examples. Here's two
examples
of what I consider complete misuse
, but there's more (notably in Truth in Television) if you look at their edit history starting from when they got unsuspended (Feb 15th). Do you people agree that plenty of these examples are misuse? I wouldn't want to single-handily check all of their edits myself to see if they are valid or not because I may make mistakes myself.
openUnintentionally Unsympathetic overly-trimmed?
UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Comic Books
- Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW): Readers who have taken issue with Sonic's decisions to let his adversaries go have generally also begun viewing him more in this light, arguing that he's become more insensitive towards other characters who have reason to be skeptical of his choices, seemingly caring more about his own righteousness in letting go of his adversaries than about how it may affect everyone else.Specific examples In issue #12, he brushes aside Tails' concerns about letting Metal Sonic go free and that they need to "honor his decision" (which leads to Metal returning to the Final Egg just in time to restore Mr. Tinker back to his Eggman self); in issue #24, he gets into a brief-yet-heated argument with Espio about how they should've better handled the Mr. Tinker situation then and there to ensure he wouldn't commit acts of evil again; in issue #32, he shows that he still hopes that Eggman can change for the better despite the Zombie Apocalypse he had just caused; in issue #44, Zavok himself calls out Sonic for his mercy in merely exiling the Deadly Six back to the Lost Hex (in spite of the torment they put him, Tails and the entire world through in Sonic Lost World alone), with Sonic asserting that he won't "sacrifice [his] principles out of fear"; and in issue #50, he tells Surge that he still believes that even [Eggman and Starline] deserve the freedom to live life for the better. Likewise, upon first meeting Belle during the Chao Races and Badnik Bases arc, he somehow mistakes her for an evil robot (despite looking and acting nothing like one), tries to destroy her and later leave her behind in the middle of nowhere despite his earlier insistence on showing mercy, giving chances and not assuming the worst about everyone and everything. Sonic also comes off to these readers as being more judgmental and condescending than his usual characterization when being faced with opposing views, and emphasizing his own viewpoint as being noble regardless of his allies' own views.Specific examples The case where he claps back at Shadow to remember his own villainous history— despite it being misguided compared to Eggman's self-aware egotism, his redemption not being the result of amnesia, and how Shadow's knowingly atoned for it since— during their fight in issue #6; claiming to "honor [Metal Sonic's] decision" in issue #12 but chastising him for being a "one-note jerk" for rejoining Eggman later in issue #26; the aforementioned heated argument with Espio in issue #24, who was shown to be visibly traumatized by Charmy and Vector's Zombot infections in the issues prior; and spending his fight with Surge in issue #50 brushing off her Tragic Villain nature, quipping and spouting out that he's having "fun" during their battle, and making a speech about why he chooses to give everyone the freedom of mercy, in contrast to how Tails at least tries talking things out with Kit. This tweet
shows a fan reaction of the most recent of these.
This was trimmed to this citing "Trimming down the entry and removing blatant one-sided arguments".
- Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW): Some readers have taken issue with Sonic's Thou Shall Not Kill attitude, arguing that his decision to let his enemies go has had disastrous, unintentional consequences on those around him.
The revised entry fixes the complaining but now fails to explain how it's unintentional/why they were supposed to be sympathetic. What to do? I asked UU Cleanup
but heard nothing back.
openSuspected Ban Evader
I'm pretty sure Resident Blade Oreboros, who just made this
query, is actually a sockpuppet of Ninten Fire Swag 20, who got bounced over their obsession with making a scene from RWBY count as a "Ray of Hope" Ending... the same thing that Oreboros is talking about in their query.
Also they edit similar pages (a lot of creator pages, Fire Emblem, Supermarioglitchy, etc).
Hate to call someone out while they're literally a thread below me, but... well, it beat accusing them directly on their thread and something just smells fishy.
Edit: Quick fact check, they were actually trying to make it count as a Downer Ending in addition to "Ray of Hope" Ending. Just wanted to correct myself.
Edited by WarJay77openRegarding the page for Every Frame A Pause
I brought this up on both the Critical Drinker
and Real Life People
cleanup threads, though I couldn't find a topic page about whether or not something is tropable.
The page for Podcast.Every Frame A Pause has a lot of issues and I'm not sure if the podcast itself is tropable. Ignoring the misused tropes I brought up on the latter cleanup thread, the podcast doesn't seem to have a narrative, the hosts aren't playing fictionalized or exaggerated versions of themselves, and the page itself is mostly troping the hosts' opinions and reactions to things.
I don't have any opinion on Every Frame A Pause beyond that its the infamous "the guys who held a 12 hour reaction stream because Jenny Nicholson hated Joker", so any input would be appreciated.
Edited by SkylaNoivernopenEdit War on SuperMarioBros movie
Troper Doctor Sleep originally added the following Deconstructed Character Archetype for Bowser in The Super Mario Bros. Movie:
"Bowser's violent tendencies and delusion that Peach would be into him are deconstructions of video game protagonists like Mario. He gains rewards by destroying anyone and anything that's different to himself and looting their kingdoms for treasure all so he can impress a princess that he sees as little more than another trophy."
This was later deleted with the reasoning that Mario's archetype (in most games) is as a working class hero who rescues a princess—without expectation of a relationship in return—from a villain, which has nothing to do with Bowser being a bully and feeling entitled to Peach.
Doctor Sleep later readded
this entry under Corrupted Character Copy, with some wording alterations (notably still insisting that Bowser is a deconstruction of Mario.) Setting aside the fact that this is misuse because Bowser is not an expy of Mario, is this an edit war?
For the record I think to suggest Bowser in the movie is a "deconstruction of protagonists like Mario" at all is incorrect. Mario as a protagonist does not attack all things different from him, he defends peaceful creatures from harmful ones. He does not do all of this to impress Peach, he usually does it for the motivation that it is simply the right thing to do. And Bowser in the movie does not rove around looting other worlds (he loots just one, because it specifically had something he wanted, and then he heads straight to the mushroom kingdom for Peach.) He is not motivated to attack things because they are "different from him", he attacks things because he is an ill-tempered bully. His entitlement to Peach is not based on him seeing himself as a "hero" to impress her, it is based on wanting to conquer everyone as husband and wife. In the movie, as in the games, he is simply the bad role model to Mario's good one, not an evil version of Mario.
openUncomfortably bashy WMG listing.
I wanted to bring up this WMG made by Idea Master on The Bad Guys WMG page. It starts here, but then goes for a few more posts
. The character in question is a Hero Antagonist in-media, being a cop with the protagonists being crooks. I get that and all...but this seems heavily vitriolic and not fit for both the series and the page, while also feels like just airing out grievances on cops alone, nothing about the character in herself. I haven't messaged them yet, since I wasn't sure how this should be handled.

On the page for Bogleech, Bog himself (under his TV Tropes username Scythemantis) removed and changed some examples, saying in his edit reason for the YMMV page that they were inaccurate or obsolete. If it were some other user, that would be one thing, but the fact that it's the creator himself makes me concerned like there's a little bias going on...
Edited by MrMediaGuy2